Date   

Re: Very Young Marriages #general

Al Yellon <tvdirector@...>
 

Martha Lev-Zion wrote in message <39B759C0.36A3E6E2@...>...
Randi Jaspan wrote:
We have come across in our family tree what seems to be incredibly
young ages of marriage in the 1800's. It seems inconsistant with
the "norm" at the time. The ages would have been about 12-14 for females,
and around 15 for males. Has anyone else found this to be the confirmed
case in their family research? >>

Not in my family. However, in reviewing and databasing Archival records
from Herder Institute microfilms that the Courland Research Group
purchased, I have come across an enormous number of 15 year old fathers
and 12 - 15 year old mothers. The material dates >from 1798 to 1804 from
what is now present day Latvia.
There is a legend in my family, and I do believe it to be true, that the
earliest ancestors (who we can trace) married at the age of 17 (male) and
13 (female) in around 1830.

Al Yellon


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Very Young Marriages #general

Al Yellon <tvdirector@...>
 

Martha Lev-Zion wrote in message <39B759C0.36A3E6E2@...>...
Randi Jaspan wrote:
We have come across in our family tree what seems to be incredibly
young ages of marriage in the 1800's. It seems inconsistant with
the "norm" at the time. The ages would have been about 12-14 for females,
and around 15 for males. Has anyone else found this to be the confirmed
case in their family research? >>

Not in my family. However, in reviewing and databasing Archival records
from Herder Institute microfilms that the Courland Research Group
purchased, I have come across an enormous number of 15 year old fathers
and 12 - 15 year old mothers. The material dates >from 1798 to 1804 from
what is now present day Latvia.
There is a legend in my family, and I do believe it to be true, that the
earliest ancestors (who we can trace) married at the age of 17 (male) and
13 (female) in around 1830.

Al Yellon


Re: Age at Marriage #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I read a comment in the Amsterdam Notary that Jewish marriages were
allowed but could not be consumated until the bride reached the age
of consent- which was then 12 years.

Sally Bruckheimer
Yes, as we have discussed many times before on this list, between twelve
and twelve and a half was the age prescribed in the Mishnah for handing the
betrothed girl over to the husband for consummation -- and that is still
technically the rule of Jewish law -- though it is not usually followed
nowadays because most Jews today live in countries that have enacted
minimum age for a girl's marriage as not less than 16 years.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Age at Marriage #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I read a comment in the Amsterdam Notary that Jewish marriages were
allowed but could not be consumated until the bride reached the age
of consent- which was then 12 years.

Sally Bruckheimer
Yes, as we have discussed many times before on this list, between twelve
and twelve and a half was the age prescribed in the Mishnah for handing the
betrothed girl over to the husband for consummation -- and that is still
technically the rule of Jewish law -- though it is not usually followed
nowadays because most Jews today live in countries that have enacted
minimum age for a girl's marriage as not less than 16 years.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...


Re: First Name "Yehafet" #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Len asked:
Just wonder about a man's name - Yaphet - is there a precedent for that?
I'm not sure what you mean by a precedent, but Yaphet is the original
Hebrew name rendered as "Japhet" in transliteration. He was one of the
sons of Noah in the "myth of origins" (I use the term technically) found
in Genesis. The Biblical "anthropology" presents Shem as the ancestor of
the Semites (Israelites, Arabs, etc.) Ham of the Hamites (black Africans),
and Japhet of the Caucasian race.

Judith Romney Wegner
Providence, RI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Name "Yehafet" #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Len asked:
Just wonder about a man's name - Yaphet - is there a precedent for that?
I'm not sure what you mean by a precedent, but Yaphet is the original
Hebrew name rendered as "Japhet" in transliteration. He was one of the
sons of Noah in the "myth of origins" (I use the term technically) found
in Genesis. The Biblical "anthropology" presents Shem as the ancestor of
the Semites (Israelites, Arabs, etc.) Ham of the Hamites (black Africans),
and Japhet of the Caucasian race.

Judith Romney Wegner
Providence, RI


Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay, Meeting, Sunday, September 10 #general

Baron, Mark A (FL51) <mark.a.baron@...>
 

Jewish Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay
Meeting Sunday, September 10

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay will meet at Gulf Coast
Jewish Family Services, 14041 Icot Blvd., Clearwater, Florida on Sunday,
September 10, 2000 at 2:00 P.M. The speaker will be Joy Katzen-Guthrie,
lecturer and Cantorial Soloist of Temple B'Nai Israel, Clearwater. Her
topic will be "The Jews of China: Silk Road to Present." Joy is an expert
on the rich and moving history of Jews in China, and she leads historical
tours to China exploring Jewish history.

She will discuss the connection and commonalities between two ancient
cultures with a discussion of the Jews of China >from the Lost Tribes to
the modern era. There will be a discussion of the Lost Tribes in China
and the tangible evidence of their once-thriving presence in this ancient
land.

We are pleased to announce that Cantor William Hauben will be available at
this meeting to provide free translation services to members. Cantor
Hauben is able to translate Polish, Yiddish, Hebrew, German and Italian.
Bring any documents and letters with which you need help.

We will also have our regular beginners' workshop at this meeting.

Translation service and the beginners' workshop are scheduled for 1:30
P.M. The main program will begin at 2:00 P.M.

There is NO CHARGE for attending the meeting!

We will also be collecting voluntary donations of canned and
non-perishable food to give to the Gulf Coast Jewish Family Services
Center "Food Pantry", (which provides food to needy families) as a token
of our appreciation for the use of their facility.

For further information or detailed directions to our meeting, feel free
to contact me.

Mark Baron
President
mark_baron@...
(727) 842-5789 (home)
(727) 539-4521 (office)

P.S. Because of the Holidays, there will be no meeting in October.

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay is proud to be one of the 70+
member organizations of the International Association of Jewish
Genealogical Societies.


Yizkor book project #general

Joyce Field <jfield@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

August report for the Yizkor Book Project.

Despite vacations, hot weather, family responsibilities, etc. our
donors and our volunteer staff have come through again for a
spectacular month of achievements. Please check out our web site at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/translations.html

New books online: 7, for a total of 236
Updated books: 15

New Books

Drogobych,Ukr
Drohiczhn, Belarus
Glinyany, Ukr: Megiles Gline
Oswiecim, Poland
Plotz, Poland
Rozniatow, Ukraine
Stropkov, Slovakia: unpublished manuscript

Updated Books


Belchatow, Poland
Buchach, Ukr
Bukowina
Chortkov, Ukr
Dokshitzy, Belarus
Dunapentele,Hungary
Dzialoszyce, Poland
Goniadz, Poland
Gorodets, Belarus
Marghita, Romania
Molchadz, Belarus
Piaski, Belarus
Przemsyl, Poland
Rokiskis, Lith
Staszow, Poland

Yizkor Book Fundraising Projects that need your financial support
are at http://www.JewishGen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html.
Please remember to include a donation to JewishGen for operational
expenses. At no cost to the project, JewishGen provides
infrastructure and administrative support that makes the Yizkor Book
Project possible. There are costs to an Internet presence!!!

Bolekhov, Ukraine
Buchach, Ukraine
Chelm, Poland
Czyzew, Poland
Dokshitsy, Belarus
Drogichin, Belarus
Gargzdai, Lithuania
Goniadz, Poland
Gorodenka, Ukraine
Gorodok, Ukraine
Grodno, Belarus
Krynki, Poland
Lancut, Poland
Moravia
Przemysl, Poland
Pulawy, Poland
Rozhnyatov, Ukraine
Rzeszow, Poland
Slutsk, Belarus
Sochaczew, Poland
Stawiski, Poland
Telekhany, Belarus
Wolbrom, Poland
Yedintsy, Moldova

If you haven't seen the Drohiczhn, Belarus yizkor book presentation
at http://www.JewishGen.org/yizkor/Drohichyn/Drogichin.html, please
see it now. This is our first side by side English/Yiddish
presentation. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I doubt that we can
replicate this effort soon again; however, we are justly proud of
this site, as you must realize.

Joyce Field
Yizkor Book Project Manager
jfield@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay, Meeting, Sunday, September 10 #general

Baron, Mark A (FL51) <mark.a.baron@...>
 

Jewish Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay
Meeting Sunday, September 10

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay will meet at Gulf Coast
Jewish Family Services, 14041 Icot Blvd., Clearwater, Florida on Sunday,
September 10, 2000 at 2:00 P.M. The speaker will be Joy Katzen-Guthrie,
lecturer and Cantorial Soloist of Temple B'Nai Israel, Clearwater. Her
topic will be "The Jews of China: Silk Road to Present." Joy is an expert
on the rich and moving history of Jews in China, and she leads historical
tours to China exploring Jewish history.

She will discuss the connection and commonalities between two ancient
cultures with a discussion of the Jews of China >from the Lost Tribes to
the modern era. There will be a discussion of the Lost Tribes in China
and the tangible evidence of their once-thriving presence in this ancient
land.

We are pleased to announce that Cantor William Hauben will be available at
this meeting to provide free translation services to members. Cantor
Hauben is able to translate Polish, Yiddish, Hebrew, German and Italian.
Bring any documents and letters with which you need help.

We will also have our regular beginners' workshop at this meeting.

Translation service and the beginners' workshop are scheduled for 1:30
P.M. The main program will begin at 2:00 P.M.

There is NO CHARGE for attending the meeting!

We will also be collecting voluntary donations of canned and
non-perishable food to give to the Gulf Coast Jewish Family Services
Center "Food Pantry", (which provides food to needy families) as a token
of our appreciation for the use of their facility.

For further information or detailed directions to our meeting, feel free
to contact me.

Mark Baron
President
mark_baron@...
(727) 842-5789 (home)
(727) 539-4521 (office)

P.S. Because of the Holidays, there will be no meeting in October.

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Tampa Bay is proud to be one of the 70+
member organizations of the International Association of Jewish
Genealogical Societies.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yizkor book project #general

Joyce Field <jfield@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

August report for the Yizkor Book Project.

Despite vacations, hot weather, family responsibilities, etc. our
donors and our volunteer staff have come through again for a
spectacular month of achievements. Please check out our web site at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/translations.html

New books online: 7, for a total of 236
Updated books: 15

New Books

Drogobych,Ukr
Drohiczhn, Belarus
Glinyany, Ukr: Megiles Gline
Oswiecim, Poland
Plotz, Poland
Rozniatow, Ukraine
Stropkov, Slovakia: unpublished manuscript

Updated Books


Belchatow, Poland
Buchach, Ukr
Bukowina
Chortkov, Ukr
Dokshitzy, Belarus
Dunapentele,Hungary
Dzialoszyce, Poland
Goniadz, Poland
Gorodets, Belarus
Marghita, Romania
Molchadz, Belarus
Piaski, Belarus
Przemsyl, Poland
Rokiskis, Lith
Staszow, Poland

Yizkor Book Fundraising Projects that need your financial support
are at http://www.JewishGen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html.
Please remember to include a donation to JewishGen for operational
expenses. At no cost to the project, JewishGen provides
infrastructure and administrative support that makes the Yizkor Book
Project possible. There are costs to an Internet presence!!!

Bolekhov, Ukraine
Buchach, Ukraine
Chelm, Poland
Czyzew, Poland
Dokshitsy, Belarus
Drogichin, Belarus
Gargzdai, Lithuania
Goniadz, Poland
Gorodenka, Ukraine
Gorodok, Ukraine
Grodno, Belarus
Krynki, Poland
Lancut, Poland
Moravia
Przemysl, Poland
Pulawy, Poland
Rozhnyatov, Ukraine
Rzeszow, Poland
Slutsk, Belarus
Sochaczew, Poland
Stawiski, Poland
Telekhany, Belarus
Wolbrom, Poland
Yedintsy, Moldova

If you haven't seen the Drohiczhn, Belarus yizkor book presentation
at http://www.JewishGen.org/yizkor/Drohichyn/Drogichin.html, please
see it now. This is our first side by side English/Yiddish
presentation. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I doubt that we can
replicate this effort soon again; however, we are justly proud of
this site, as you must realize.

Joyce Field
Yizkor Book Project Manager
jfield@...


JewishGen is so gratified.... #general

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

.....with the flow of support coming into our office in Houston.

What you are showing us is that there is a real sense of
responsibility and willingness to help pay for that which you
use. And more importantly you cannot envision a world without
JewishGen.

For all those who would prefer a check instead of credit card,
our address is:

JewishGen Inc.
12 Greenway Plaza, Suite 1100
Houston, TX 77046

And please, if your name is not printed on your check, we need
to know it and your e-mail as well so we can thank you properly.

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations

Personal messages to -->skydell@...
JewishGen business to -->cskydell@...
Thank you!


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JewishGen is so gratified.... #general

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

.....with the flow of support coming into our office in Houston.

What you are showing us is that there is a real sense of
responsibility and willingness to help pay for that which you
use. And more importantly you cannot envision a world without
JewishGen.

For all those who would prefer a check instead of credit card,
our address is:

JewishGen Inc.
12 Greenway Plaza, Suite 1100
Houston, TX 77046

And please, if your name is not printed on your check, we need
to know it and your e-mail as well so we can thank you properly.

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations

Personal messages to -->skydell@...
JewishGen business to -->cskydell@...
Thank you!


Re: Help with Jewish Genealogy #general

Trhr204@...
 

Thank you for your information. I have to research where these towns are
located in conjunction to Minsk. This society was a relief society for
immigrants. In fact I got the spelling >from the Beth David cemetery where
my grandparents are buried. My mom who is 85 mentions the fact that they
were Litvaks. I cant seem to find anything concerning these people.

Theresa Messina


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Help with Jewish Genealogy #general

Trhr204@...
 

Thank you for your information. I have to research where these towns are
located in conjunction to Minsk. This society was a relief society for
immigrants. In fact I got the spelling >from the Beth David cemetery where
my grandparents are buried. My mom who is 85 mentions the fact that they
were Litvaks. I cant seem to find anything concerning these people.

Theresa Messina


Russian Army #general

Rosa3035@...
 

I do not have the exact wording of the Russian law regarding conscription
in the 1880's, but I can relate what I do know about it.

All Jewish males reaching the age of 12 were eligible for a 25 year
conscription in the army. First born males were exempt. Some of the draft
boards picked boys as young as 10 in order to make their quotas.

My father left home when he reached 12. He told us that the reason was
that the Cossacks were coming, but he said that he went to the city and
got a job in a "grocers" shop. He next arrived in NYC he said in Sept.
1888, he also said that the HIAS had gotten him a job in a grocery store
on the lower east side of NY. He also told us about the great blizzard
of '88 and all the snow he had to clear away.

There are no records, either passenger ship lists, or any others that we
have found that list him arriving here. The HIAS of NY did not keep any
records at that time. So, we question whether a boy of 12 would be given
a job and living quarters in 1886 without some kind of connection.
And there is the question, if he arrived in September, how could he have
shoveled snow during the blizzard of '88 which occurred in March.
Most immigrants of that period were afraid that the czars army could come
and get them sent back, and most of them did everything they could to
throw off any one looking for them.

On my father's marriage license dated 1899 in NY, he lists a totally
fictitious name for his mother. And to this very date, we have not been
able to find where he came from, he told us "Kiev Gubernia", but we have
not found anything in their archives to support this. Of course lots of
records were destroyed during the war.

That is what I know about the czars conscription laws.

Nathan Greenberg
San Diego, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Russian Army #general

Rosa3035@...
 

I do not have the exact wording of the Russian law regarding conscription
in the 1880's, but I can relate what I do know about it.

All Jewish males reaching the age of 12 were eligible for a 25 year
conscription in the army. First born males were exempt. Some of the draft
boards picked boys as young as 10 in order to make their quotas.

My father left home when he reached 12. He told us that the reason was
that the Cossacks were coming, but he said that he went to the city and
got a job in a "grocers" shop. He next arrived in NYC he said in Sept.
1888, he also said that the HIAS had gotten him a job in a grocery store
on the lower east side of NY. He also told us about the great blizzard
of '88 and all the snow he had to clear away.

There are no records, either passenger ship lists, or any others that we
have found that list him arriving here. The HIAS of NY did not keep any
records at that time. So, we question whether a boy of 12 would be given
a job and living quarters in 1886 without some kind of connection.
And there is the question, if he arrived in September, how could he have
shoveled snow during the blizzard of '88 which occurred in March.
Most immigrants of that period were afraid that the czars army could come
and get them sent back, and most of them did everything they could to
throw off any one looking for them.

On my father's marriage license dated 1899 in NY, he lists a totally
fictitious name for his mother. And to this very date, we have not been
able to find where he came from, he told us "Kiev Gubernia", but we have
not found anything in their archives to support this. Of course lots of
records were destroyed during the war.

That is what I know about the czars conscription laws.

Nathan Greenberg
San Diego, CA


Re: Age at Marriage #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

I read a comment in the Amsterdam Notary that Jewish marriages were
allowed but could not be consumated until the bride reached the age
of consent- which was then 12 years.

Sally Bruckheimer


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Age at Marriage #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

I read a comment in the Amsterdam Notary that Jewish marriages were
allowed but could not be consumated until the bride reached the age
of consent- which was then 12 years.

Sally Bruckheimer


Re: Meere ancestry--Jamaica/London #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/7/00 3:39:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mstringr@... writes:
<< William was born abt. 1716 (>from burial listing). Wife Mary was born
abt. 1730. So, he may have been married before, but no other children are
named in his will.

Son William baptised Mangotsfield, 1754 (in Gloucester, England). Two
daughters in Westerleigh. Youngest daughter March, 1765 in Dyrham. >>

If he married a non-Sefardi woman, the Bevis Marks congregation would
probably not have allowed him to marry in its Synagoge. If he married a
non-Jewish woman, and/or his children were baptised, he was possibly not
afforded Jewish burial--and probably didn't seek it.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Meere ancestry--Jamaica/London #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/7/00 3:39:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mstringr@... writes:
<< William was born abt. 1716 (>from burial listing). Wife Mary was born
abt. 1730. So, he may have been married before, but no other children are
named in his will.

Son William baptised Mangotsfield, 1754 (in Gloucester, England). Two
daughters in Westerleigh. Youngest daughter March, 1765 in Dyrham. >>

If he married a non-Sefardi woman, the Bevis Marks congregation would
probably not have allowed him to marry in its Synagoge. If he married a
non-Jewish woman, and/or his children were baptised, he was possibly not
afforded Jewish burial--and probably didn't seek it.

Michael Bernet, New York