Date   

Grave Stone Errors #belarus

MRS. H.R. COOPER <HOWGLADCOOP@...>
 

After many months of contemplation, I finally searched and found my
paternal grandfather's grave site in Brooklyn. A copy of his Death
Certificate showed a death date of April 12, 1910 at the Governour
Hospital in New York.

He was 40 years old, born in Russia (Mir, Belarus), and named Isadore
Cooper. The records at the office of the Washington cemetery in Brooklyn,
NY show these details correctly on the original card file entry. When we
(wife and I) located the grave exactly where directed, we were amazed to
find many errors on the stone. The stone read "Isaac Cuper, died, April
13, 1910, and he was 44 years old. Rushing back to the cemetery office,
we asked to see the record card, and the card was indeed correct per the
death certificate, a copy of which I had with me.

How could such errors not be corrected, for it would have been discovered
at least at the time of unvailing, a year later? Could it be that the
cost of changing the stone was to be borne by the desperately poor family?
If so, would not my father, who was the oldest male child, and a fairly
comfortable salesman, have made the correction years later?

He had been a very moral person and I cannot accept the position that he
did not care. Dad was but 14 at his fathers death, but was a contributor
to the upkeep of his brothers, sisters, and his widowed mother.

If anyone can tell me if such errors on gravestones was common, and if it
is possible that the true name of my grandfather was indeed Isaac Cuper,
and not Isidore Cooper? Your input will be most appreciated.

Howard Cooper
Staten Island, NY
howgladcoop@...


Belarus SIG #Belarus Grave Stone Errors #belarus

MRS. H.R. COOPER <HOWGLADCOOP@...>
 

After many months of contemplation, I finally searched and found my
paternal grandfather's grave site in Brooklyn. A copy of his Death
Certificate showed a death date of April 12, 1910 at the Governour
Hospital in New York.

He was 40 years old, born in Russia (Mir, Belarus), and named Isadore
Cooper. The records at the office of the Washington cemetery in Brooklyn,
NY show these details correctly on the original card file entry. When we
(wife and I) located the grave exactly where directed, we were amazed to
find many errors on the stone. The stone read "Isaac Cuper, died, April
13, 1910, and he was 44 years old. Rushing back to the cemetery office,
we asked to see the record card, and the card was indeed correct per the
death certificate, a copy of which I had with me.

How could such errors not be corrected, for it would have been discovered
at least at the time of unvailing, a year later? Could it be that the
cost of changing the stone was to be borne by the desperately poor family?
If so, would not my father, who was the oldest male child, and a fairly
comfortable salesman, have made the correction years later?

He had been a very moral person and I cannot accept the position that he
did not care. Dad was but 14 at his fathers death, but was a contributor
to the upkeep of his brothers, sisters, and his widowed mother.

If anyone can tell me if such errors on gravestones was common, and if it
is possible that the true name of my grandfather was indeed Isaac Cuper,
and not Isidore Cooper? Your input will be most appreciated.

Howard Cooper
Staten Island, NY
howgladcoop@...


Transliteration #yizkorbooks

Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
 

Dear Yizkor Book Coordinators:

I also have pondered what to do about spellings of first and last names for
two Yizkor Books: Sochaczew and Stawiski Poland. I have taken a different
approach--which will not please the Yiddish purists I am certain. Thus far
we have only translated >from Hebrew with 2 chapters being the exception in
one Yizkor Book. I try to find the spelling as it was in Poland--so that
the families may be assisted when searching records in Poland as to the way
the names would probably be on any B-M-D records. I plan to have the final
Yiddish spellings the same as the Hebrew for consistency.

I have one professional translator, but several people have volunteered
translations. I look for the names of town spelling by maps--Expedia.com;
Map Quest and Michelin's Poland Map. I try to find other mechanisms to
find how the surnames were spelled in Poland--through books on Poland,
other Yizkor Books, JRI-Poland and the JGFF members for that shtetl by
asking each of them what they think/know was the original spelling--
not what it might have been today in any country.

There are still some differences of opinion -- but when I write to my
shtetlach group announcing chapters being put up on the web, I make an
overall statement about the difficulty in transliteration and ask for
forgiveness for any egregious errors. I explain the intent is to spell
the names as they were in Poland. If someone is really upset I put it on my
list to change and will submit the list to the webmaster about once every
4-6 months. I have yet to do that and my first Yizkor Book has been up
and added to over the past year--and I do a have a list of corrections that
will be submitted eventually.

While the accuracy of spelling is very important to me what is the most
important is to get the translated chapters up on the web, and to those who
have contributed to the translation and allow access to all to read about
the people and the times.

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA


Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks Transliteration #yizkorbooks

Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
 

Dear Yizkor Book Coordinators:

I also have pondered what to do about spellings of first and last names for
two Yizkor Books: Sochaczew and Stawiski Poland. I have taken a different
approach--which will not please the Yiddish purists I am certain. Thus far
we have only translated >from Hebrew with 2 chapters being the exception in
one Yizkor Book. I try to find the spelling as it was in Poland--so that
the families may be assisted when searching records in Poland as to the way
the names would probably be on any B-M-D records. I plan to have the final
Yiddish spellings the same as the Hebrew for consistency.

I have one professional translator, but several people have volunteered
translations. I look for the names of town spelling by maps--Expedia.com;
Map Quest and Michelin's Poland Map. I try to find other mechanisms to
find how the surnames were spelled in Poland--through books on Poland,
other Yizkor Books, JRI-Poland and the JGFF members for that shtetl by
asking each of them what they think/know was the original spelling--
not what it might have been today in any country.

There are still some differences of opinion -- but when I write to my
shtetlach group announcing chapters being put up on the web, I make an
overall statement about the difficulty in transliteration and ask for
forgiveness for any egregious errors. I explain the intent is to spell
the names as they were in Poland. If someone is really upset I put it on my
list to change and will submit the list to the webmaster about once every
4-6 months. I have yet to do that and my first Yizkor Book has been up
and added to over the past year--and I do a have a list of corrections that
will be submitted eventually.

While the accuracy of spelling is very important to me what is the most
important is to get the translated chapters up on the web, and to those who
have contributed to the translation and allow access to all to read about
the people and the times.

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA


Re: Need help for inserting the vowels into a Hebrew name..' #general

snillop@...
 

Inter alia, Judith Romney Wegner wrote:

<Actually it is *not* true that Hyman is the English equivalent of
Tsvi. (I wonder what gave you that idea?) Hyman is merely the usual
anglicization of the name Chaim or Hayyim.>

I am sure she is correct but I wonder about her use of
**anglicization**? My father's family is said to have arrived in Britain
just before my father was born in 1888. There is a family legend that
his mother was pregnant with him on the journey. Whatever the truth of
that there is no doubt that my father was born very soon after they
arrived. His birth certificate gives his father's name as Hyman: it was
certainly Chaim in Hebrew. They would have had no chance to learn much
English before the birth if that process is what is meant by
anglicization. I notice that the copy of the birth certificate has an X
for father's signature (perhaps he wrote it in Yiddish? It suggests
illiteracy in English.) The birth certificate gets the family name wrong
and also the mother's maiden name wrong, no doubt the registrar
mishearing those words. Could he also have misheard Chaim and written
down Hyman? On the other hand his occupation was correctly given -
**Cabinet Maker (journeyman)**. However, perhaps my grandfather knew
those words >from his membership of the Hebrew Cabinet Makers' Union of
which he was a member and may have joined soon after his arrival.
Another possible illustration of their lack of knowledge of English was
the fact that when the two oldest children, my aunts, who had been born
in Slonim, Grodno, started school in Stepney there was some confusion
and they were registered not with the surname Polonsky but with Hyman.

Harold Pollins


Jessica LEVANT: Researcher 7682 #general

Kroll
 

E-mail to Jessica Levant who has a listing on theFamily Finder for Crown in
Leeds is bouncing.
Jessica, please contact me.
Ed Kroll, Israel mailto:krolle@...

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen has established a new service to help locate
current e-mail addresses for JGFF registrants only. Please send requests
to lostnfound@...


wrong spelling #general

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.

In my recent note I wrote Due where it should be Dew.

Sorry.

Udi Cain


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Need help for inserting the vowels into a Hebrew name..' #general

snillop@...
 

Inter alia, Judith Romney Wegner wrote:

<Actually it is *not* true that Hyman is the English equivalent of
Tsvi. (I wonder what gave you that idea?) Hyman is merely the usual
anglicization of the name Chaim or Hayyim.>

I am sure she is correct but I wonder about her use of
**anglicization**? My father's family is said to have arrived in Britain
just before my father was born in 1888. There is a family legend that
his mother was pregnant with him on the journey. Whatever the truth of
that there is no doubt that my father was born very soon after they
arrived. His birth certificate gives his father's name as Hyman: it was
certainly Chaim in Hebrew. They would have had no chance to learn much
English before the birth if that process is what is meant by
anglicization. I notice that the copy of the birth certificate has an X
for father's signature (perhaps he wrote it in Yiddish? It suggests
illiteracy in English.) The birth certificate gets the family name wrong
and also the mother's maiden name wrong, no doubt the registrar
mishearing those words. Could he also have misheard Chaim and written
down Hyman? On the other hand his occupation was correctly given -
**Cabinet Maker (journeyman)**. However, perhaps my grandfather knew
those words >from his membership of the Hebrew Cabinet Makers' Union of
which he was a member and may have joined soon after his arrival.
Another possible illustration of their lack of knowledge of English was
the fact that when the two oldest children, my aunts, who had been born
in Slonim, Grodno, started school in Stepney there was some confusion
and they were registered not with the surname Polonsky but with Hyman.

Harold Pollins


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jessica LEVANT: Researcher 7682 #general

Kroll
 

E-mail to Jessica Levant who has a listing on theFamily Finder for Crown in
Leeds is bouncing.
Jessica, please contact me.
Ed Kroll, Israel mailto:krolle@...

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen has established a new service to help locate
current e-mail addresses for JGFF registrants only. Please send requests
to lostnfound@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen wrong spelling #general

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.

In my recent note I wrote Due where it should be Dew.

Sorry.

Udi Cain


Re: Maps of Eastern Europe #ukraine

Ilene Murray <ilenemurray@...>
 

Dear Group,
The absolute best maps I have found for shtetl research come from
*(store name deleted - see note below) Albany, New York
(They do have a website, but, for the millionth time, I've
misplaced their address) They have reproductions of old maps for approx.
$7 each. The three I use most often are (M28) Poland-1799; (M7) The
Baltic States-1845; and (M30) Southwest Russia-1860. Although the
spelling will vary >from map to map (according to whose language was
being used at the time), these are accurate, easy to use maps showing
the tiniest shtetls in the areas most of our ancestors came from. I also
recommend The Shtetl Gazetteer by Chester Cohen. This was out of print
for a while but is now being published again. It lists many shtetls that
are not in Where Once We Walked and is very helpful to own.
Ilene Murray in St. Louis, MO
Researching: Weisberg in Machnovka (nr. Berdichev)
Boches in Pikov (nr. Vinnetsa)
Kanfer in Horochov/Gorochov

*NOTE: JewishGen hosted mailing lists may not be used to advertise the products or services of any person or company. Please reply to the author of this letter for more details about this store.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Maps of Eastern Europe #ukraine

Ilene Murray <ilenemurray@...>
 

Dear Group,
The absolute best maps I have found for shtetl research come from
*(store name deleted - see note below) Albany, New York
(They do have a website, but, for the millionth time, I've
misplaced their address) They have reproductions of old maps for approx.
$7 each. The three I use most often are (M28) Poland-1799; (M7) The
Baltic States-1845; and (M30) Southwest Russia-1860. Although the
spelling will vary >from map to map (according to whose language was
being used at the time), these are accurate, easy to use maps showing
the tiniest shtetls in the areas most of our ancestors came from. I also
recommend The Shtetl Gazetteer by Chester Cohen. This was out of print
for a while but is now being published again. It lists many shtetls that
are not in Where Once We Walked and is very helpful to own.
Ilene Murray in St. Louis, MO
Researching: Weisberg in Machnovka (nr. Berdichev)
Boches in Pikov (nr. Vinnetsa)
Kanfer in Horochov/Gorochov

*NOTE: JewishGen hosted mailing lists may not be used to advertise the products or services of any person or company. Please reply to the author of this letter for more details about this store.


Re: Can "Abel" be "Avraham?" #general

David Ziants <dziants@...>
 

The English name "Abel" is usually the translation of the name Hevel
in the older translations of the Tanach (Bible). This was one of the
sons of Adam HaRishon (The First Man). Hevel was killed by his brother
Kayn.

The name "Hevel" means "worthlessness" in Hebrew, and because of its
negative connotation it is not generally used as a Jewish name.

This does not mean that someone with a Hebrew name like Avraham,
would not choose "Abel" for the English equivalent, because of the
sound alike. A nickname for Avraham can be Avi as the poster mentioned
(but the converse is not necessarily true; Avi might also be a
nickname for Avigdor, Avichayil, Avishai...), and in English the
name Abe might be used. This could be a reason how "Abel" came about.

Shabbat Shalom
--
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel

From: "Arthur Feinberg" <feinber2@...>

I have an Abel Rosenthal (brother of my GGGF) in my tree >from
Marijampole, Lithuania. It never crossed my mind that "Abel" could be
the same as "Avraham" as I figured they were 2 entirely different
Biblical characters.
However, I recently received an e-mail >from someone who can document that
she is descended >from an Avraham (actual Hebrew name taken off a
tombstone) >from that same time. I also know that the "Abel" in my
records had a grandson named "Abba". This "Abba" had a grandson named
" Avi." This is sounding closer to a Hebrew name of "Avraham."

Am I presuming too much, or is this a possible legitimate connection. I
hope to hear >from Avi, soon to get his exact Hebrew name. Thanks for your
help.

Arthur Feinberg
Kalamazoo, MI
feinber2@...


Auschwitz Twin Survivors #general

come@...
 

I happened upon this web site by accident and thought it might interest
some of you. I apologise if it was already brought to your attention.
It is the site of the C.A.N.D.L.E.S. (Children of Auschwitz Nazi Deadly
Lab Experiments Survivors) Holocaust Museum. Twins are listed by name,
age, birth date if available and liberation date if available. The
address is http://www.candles-museum.com/Index.htm

Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia

Researching: BAUM/Svidnik, Satoraljaujhely, Hungary. BERNER/KATZ/
Beregovo,Ukraine.BLUMENSTEIN/IvanoFrankovsk,Ukraine.GOLDFARB/MONCIASZ
Parczew,Poland.HELLINGER/Michalovce,Kosice,Slovakia.NEUMAN/NEUMANN/
Kvakovce,Michalovce, Slovakia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:Can "Abel" be "Avraham?" #general

David Ziants <dziants@...>
 

The English name "Abel" is usually the translation of the name Hevel
in the older translations of the Tanach (Bible). This was one of the
sons of Adam HaRishon (The First Man). Hevel was killed by his brother
Kayn.

The name "Hevel" means "worthlessness" in Hebrew, and because of its
negative connotation it is not generally used as a Jewish name.

This does not mean that someone with a Hebrew name like Avraham,
would not choose "Abel" for the English equivalent, because of the
sound alike. A nickname for Avraham can be Avi as the poster mentioned
(but the converse is not necessarily true; Avi might also be a
nickname for Avigdor, Avichayil, Avishai...), and in English the
name Abe might be used. This could be a reason how "Abel" came about.

Shabbat Shalom
--
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel

From: "Arthur Feinberg" <feinber2@...>

I have an Abel Rosenthal (brother of my GGGF) in my tree >from
Marijampole, Lithuania. It never crossed my mind that "Abel" could be
the same as "Avraham" as I figured they were 2 entirely different
Biblical characters.
However, I recently received an e-mail >from someone who can document that
she is descended >from an Avraham (actual Hebrew name taken off a
tombstone) >from that same time. I also know that the "Abel" in my
records had a grandson named "Abba". This "Abba" had a grandson named
" Avi." This is sounding closer to a Hebrew name of "Avraham."

Am I presuming too much, or is this a possible legitimate connection. I
hope to hear >from Avi, soon to get his exact Hebrew name. Thanks for your
help.

Arthur Feinberg
Kalamazoo, MI
feinber2@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Auschwitz Twin Survivors #general

come@...
 

I happened upon this web site by accident and thought it might interest
some of you. I apologise if it was already brought to your attention.
It is the site of the C.A.N.D.L.E.S. (Children of Auschwitz Nazi Deadly
Lab Experiments Survivors) Holocaust Museum. Twins are listed by name,
age, birth date if available and liberation date if available. The
address is http://www.candles-museum.com/Index.htm

Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia

Researching: BAUM/Svidnik, Satoraljaujhely, Hungary. BERNER/KATZ/
Beregovo,Ukraine.BLUMENSTEIN/IvanoFrankovsk,Ukraine.GOLDFARB/MONCIASZ
Parczew,Poland.HELLINGER/Michalovce,Kosice,Slovakia.NEUMAN/NEUMANN/
Kvakovce,Michalovce, Slovakia


NUTKIS in ULANIV, PODOLIA GUBERNIA #ukraine

AviDov@...
 

I am named after my Ggf,Avraham Tzvi NUTKIS who probably died in ULANIV at the turn
of the 20th century.One of his 3 sons,Yisroel,born 1870 was my Zeida and his eldest son,Dov Ber (1892-1982) was my dad.
Are there any traces of a Kehila,or cemetery,or even records in that
area.That shtetl is shown NW of Vinnicja,slightly west of Kalinivka.
I never found any reference to the fate of these Jews during the Nazi pogrom of 1941.
Another family branch,ROITMAN,lived in nearby Litin,which was anihilated that year.

It may be unreasonable to hope for a miracle,but I do want to know if there
is any sign that this old homestead and our family ever existed there ?

Shanah Tovah Abe Nutkis


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine NUTKIS in ULANIV, PODOLIA GUBERNIA #ukraine

AviDov@...
 

I am named after my Ggf,Avraham Tzvi NUTKIS who probably died in ULANIV at the turn
of the 20th century.One of his 3 sons,Yisroel,born 1870 was my Zeida and his eldest son,Dov Ber (1892-1982) was my dad.
Are there any traces of a Kehila,or cemetery,or even records in that
area.That shtetl is shown NW of Vinnicja,slightly west of Kalinivka.
I never found any reference to the fate of these Jews during the Nazi pogrom of 1941.
Another family branch,ROITMAN,lived in nearby Litin,which was anihilated that year.

It may be unreasonable to hope for a miracle,but I do want to know if there
is any sign that this old homestead and our family ever existed there ?

Shanah Tovah Abe Nutkis


Surnames #general

FEntin2385@...
 

Hello,
I have had one reply regarding my surnames in several months.
I am re-entering the following;
MARCUS >from Bialystok, Russia,Poland
STABINSKY >from Bialystok, Russia/Poland
NATHANSON >from Vilnius, Lithuania
BREITMAN >from Ilinicz, Russia
JACOBS >from Minsk, Russia
AVIN >from Minsk, Russia
RABINOWITZ >from Korestichew, Russia
WETSTEIN >from Korestichew, Russia
ENTIN >from Rositza, Russia
Thank you
Fran Marcus Entin


ZELIG / ZELIK/ ZOLTAN #general

Vivian Kahn
 

Good guess! The Hippocrene Concise English-Hungarian/Hungarian
English dictionary states that the origin of the name Zoltan is
debated but agrees with Udi that the name may be the same word as
"sultan".

At 12:00 AM -0500 9/22/00, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
Subject: ZELIG / ZELIK
From: "Udi Cain" <chaikin@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:59:08 +0200
X-Message-Number: 15

Dear JewishGenners.

This is only a guess:

The Hungarian name Zoltan, maybe brought by Gypsies >from Turkey (Sultan
Muslim Ruler/King?
If a Jewish person got that name than in Yiddish he may have got that
nickname.

Regards.
Udi Cain.