Date   

Metrical records? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Probably a silly question, but I have now several times seen the
expression "Metrical records" mentioned among types of records available
from a certain place; i.g. >from this and this place the archives have
Vital records, Censuses, Directories and Metrical Records.

What are Metrical Records??

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark


Re: Female name: Gisha #general

Judith27
 

Helene Bergman <HeleneBergman@netscape.net> recently asked about the
name "Gisha." Perhaps the name being alluded to is a variant of Gissa
which was my late mother's Hebrew/Jewish name. The name Gisse is listed
on page 65 of Rabbi Gorr's book, _Jewish Personal Names_, with meaning,
and probable etymological origin, along with variations on the theme
such as Gissela and Gizze.
Up, Roots!
Judi Langer-Surnamer Caplan, Long Beach, NY

Just came across the name "Gisha" as a Hebrew name. Although I'm skeptical
about these equivalences, her English name was Hilda. I don't know her
country of origin, but I have the additional clue that her son's middle
name is Gersh rather than Hersh, but I haven't heard of Hisha as a name
either. Anyone out there with a clue?


translation of a marriage certificate? #general

annette reilly
 

Hi
Can anybody help me by translating my grandmothers
wedding cert, there is a fair amount of hebrew on the
document >from the East London Synagogue in 1939.
many thanks
annette reilly


Re: Need help for inserting the vowels into a Hebrew name..' #general

martin solomon <bassdoc@...>
 

One reason for the mistake in the family name to the personal first
name was a European or Middle Eastern convention of writing the family
name first followed by the personal name with no comma


snillop@tesco.net wrote:

Inter alia, Judith Romney Wegner wrote:

<Actually it is *not* true that Hyman is the English equivalent of
Tsvi. (I wonder what gave you that idea?) Hyman is merely the usual
anglicization of the name Chaim or Hayyim.>

I am sure she is correct but I wonder about her use of
**anglicization**? My father's family is said to have arrived in Britain
just before my father was born in 1888. There is a family legend that
his mother was pregnant with him on the journey. Whatever the truth of
that there is no doubt that my father was born very soon after they
arrived. His birth certificate gives his father's name as Hyman: it was
certainly Chaim in Hebrew. They would have had no chance to learn much
English before the birth if that process is what is meant by
anglicization. I notice that the copy of the birth certificate has an X
for father's signature (perhaps he wrote it in Yiddish? It suggests
illiteracy in English.) The birth certificate gets the family name wrong
and also the mother's maiden name wrong, no doubt the registrar
mishearing those words. Could he also have misheard Chaim and written
down Hyman? On the other hand his occupation was correctly given -
**Cabinet Maker (journeyman)**. However, perhaps my grandfather knew
those words >from his membership of the Hebrew Cabinet Makers' Union of
which he was a member and may have joined soon after his arrival.
Another possible illustration of their lack of knowledge of English was
the fact that when the two oldest children, my aunts, who had been born
in Slonim, Grodno, started school in Stepney there was some confusion
and they were registered not with the surname Polonsky but with Hyman.


Re: son has father's first name? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

I am now wondering (for the first time!) whether, if a woman dies
giving birth to a daughter who survives, the daughter is named for
the mother? I have never heard this discussed.
Judith

With near certaincy I have such a case >from Plock 1814.

I wondered about a marriage >from 1835 where the bride was Haia Sura,
daughter of Abraham and Haia Sura and popped a question to this group
whether a girl would get the mother's name if the mother died before the
child was named. Several Genners confirmed this hypothesis as a likely
explanation - and records found later seem to confirm this.

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark

P.S. Is it fair to call Esau a troublesome twin brother of Jacob, "me
thinks" Jacob was more trouble to Esau than the other way round, cheating
him out of his first-born's right? :-)


Brothers Give Parents Different Names #general

Rlberliner@...
 

Perhaps someone can explain this difference in names. As explained in a
previous posting, my Dad, Samuel Leaf, had two brothers, Max Leaf and
Morris Lieberman. I had assumed that my grandmother married a second time
and Uncle Morris was a child of that marriage.

Uncle Morris' death certificate, information given by Uncle Max' daughter,
listed his parents names as Father: Samson LIEBERMAN Mother: Alca Ain

Today, I got my dad's application for social security and he lists his
parents as Father: Samson LEAF Mother: Neome Ain

Is there any way that Neome and Alca could be the same? Maybe one in
Russian and one in Hebrew? Also, as previously mentioned, my brother's
name was Victor Samson. In Hebrew, it was Avigdor Shimshon. We always
knew he was named after Dad's parents.

Any ideas on the different surnames of LEAF and LIEBERMAN?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Sincerely,
Rachelle Leaf Berliner
Savannah GA
rlberliner@aol.com
Searching: LEAF/LIEBERMAN/AIN/SHENKIN/LIFSCHITZ >from Bialystok to NY
to Savannah)
BERLINER/SIDLER/STEIN(>from Ostrolenka to NY to Savannah)
ISLER/EICHLER/EHRLICH/JACOBS/GOLDSTEIN/ (>from PO to London to
Baltimore)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Metrical records? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Probably a silly question, but I have now several times seen the
expression "Metrical records" mentioned among types of records available
from a certain place; i.g. >from this and this place the archives have
Vital records, Censuses, Directories and Metrical Records.

What are Metrical Records??

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Female name: Gisha #general

Judith27
 

Helene Bergman <HeleneBergman@netscape.net> recently asked about the
name "Gisha." Perhaps the name being alluded to is a variant of Gissa
which was my late mother's Hebrew/Jewish name. The name Gisse is listed
on page 65 of Rabbi Gorr's book, _Jewish Personal Names_, with meaning,
and probable etymological origin, along with variations on the theme
such as Gissela and Gizze.
Up, Roots!
Judi Langer-Surnamer Caplan, Long Beach, NY

Just came across the name "Gisha" as a Hebrew name. Although I'm skeptical
about these equivalences, her English name was Hilda. I don't know her
country of origin, but I have the additional clue that her son's middle
name is Gersh rather than Hersh, but I haven't heard of Hisha as a name
either. Anyone out there with a clue?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen translation of a marriage certificate? #general

annette reilly
 

Hi
Can anybody help me by translating my grandmothers
wedding cert, there is a fair amount of hebrew on the
document >from the East London Synagogue in 1939.
many thanks
annette reilly


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Need help for inserting the vowels into a Hebrew name..' #general

martin solomon <bassdoc@...>
 

One reason for the mistake in the family name to the personal first
name was a European or Middle Eastern convention of writing the family
name first followed by the personal name with no comma


snillop@tesco.net wrote:

Inter alia, Judith Romney Wegner wrote:

<Actually it is *not* true that Hyman is the English equivalent of
Tsvi. (I wonder what gave you that idea?) Hyman is merely the usual
anglicization of the name Chaim or Hayyim.>

I am sure she is correct but I wonder about her use of
**anglicization**? My father's family is said to have arrived in Britain
just before my father was born in 1888. There is a family legend that
his mother was pregnant with him on the journey. Whatever the truth of
that there is no doubt that my father was born very soon after they
arrived. His birth certificate gives his father's name as Hyman: it was
certainly Chaim in Hebrew. They would have had no chance to learn much
English before the birth if that process is what is meant by
anglicization. I notice that the copy of the birth certificate has an X
for father's signature (perhaps he wrote it in Yiddish? It suggests
illiteracy in English.) The birth certificate gets the family name wrong
and also the mother's maiden name wrong, no doubt the registrar
mishearing those words. Could he also have misheard Chaim and written
down Hyman? On the other hand his occupation was correctly given -
**Cabinet Maker (journeyman)**. However, perhaps my grandfather knew
those words >from his membership of the Hebrew Cabinet Makers' Union of
which he was a member and may have joined soon after his arrival.
Another possible illustration of their lack of knowledge of English was
the fact that when the two oldest children, my aunts, who had been born
in Slonim, Grodno, started school in Stepney there was some confusion
and they were registered not with the surname Polonsky but with Hyman.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: son has father's first name? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

I am now wondering (for the first time!) whether, if a woman dies
giving birth to a daughter who survives, the daughter is named for
the mother? I have never heard this discussed.
Judith

With near certaincy I have such a case >from Plock 1814.

I wondered about a marriage >from 1835 where the bride was Haia Sura,
daughter of Abraham and Haia Sura and popped a question to this group
whether a girl would get the mother's name if the mother died before the
child was named. Several Genners confirmed this hypothesis as a likely
explanation - and records found later seem to confirm this.

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark

P.S. Is it fair to call Esau a troublesome twin brother of Jacob, "me
thinks" Jacob was more trouble to Esau than the other way round, cheating
him out of his first-born's right? :-)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Brothers Give Parents Different Names #general

Rlberliner@...
 

Perhaps someone can explain this difference in names. As explained in a
previous posting, my Dad, Samuel Leaf, had two brothers, Max Leaf and
Morris Lieberman. I had assumed that my grandmother married a second time
and Uncle Morris was a child of that marriage.

Uncle Morris' death certificate, information given by Uncle Max' daughter,
listed his parents names as Father: Samson LIEBERMAN Mother: Alca Ain

Today, I got my dad's application for social security and he lists his
parents as Father: Samson LEAF Mother: Neome Ain

Is there any way that Neome and Alca could be the same? Maybe one in
Russian and one in Hebrew? Also, as previously mentioned, my brother's
name was Victor Samson. In Hebrew, it was Avigdor Shimshon. We always
knew he was named after Dad's parents.

Any ideas on the different surnames of LEAF and LIEBERMAN?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Sincerely,
Rachelle Leaf Berliner
Savannah GA
rlberliner@aol.com
Searching: LEAF/LIEBERMAN/AIN/SHENKIN/LIFSCHITZ >from Bialystok to NY
to Savannah)
BERLINER/SIDLER/STEIN(>from Ostrolenka to NY to Savannah)
ISLER/EICHLER/EHRLICH/JACOBS/GOLDSTEIN/ (>from PO to London to
Baltimore)


Romania #yiddish

John Demetrick <jdemetrick@...>
 

Let me begin by saying that I am new to the list, but am not
unfamiliar with protocols and will not offend those who have gotten
this far through the sentence with their fingers on the delete
button...

I was born in the United States but have been living in Romania for
three years now. During the last year things have taken a brighter
path as I have become involved in a program concerning the
documentation of Jewish monuments here in Romania (a manner of stating
that I have traversed Maramures far and wide with my partner during
the past summer, documenting and photographing over 130 Jewish
cemeteries) for Jewish folks keen on researching their geneology.

But with that I speak of summer sunshine activities...now the true
harshness of winter falls upon me and I must again find refuge in the
university and state archives of the city of Cluj. For some time now I
have been compiling a reference catalogue of cabaret and variety
performers who appeared on Romanian stages. I have been confining
myself to persons that appear on cinemagraph stages and variety
theaters (avoiding those who appeared regualarly as 'theater'
performers) and have been dying to know if there is more information
out there about "hypnotic dogs" and "egyptian dancers"...

I suspect that many of the performers that I have been coming across
are not 'outrightly Jewish' but at the same time have come across many
references to Jewish/Romanian connection in Romanian performance.

What I would like to ask, as an introduction to this list, is for
people to send me information concerning online databases of
cabaret/theater/variety acts that are currently in existence. I have a
good deal of questions concerning newspaper references and 78rpm
recordings that I have purchased over the past few years that are
currently unanswered. Having the opportunity to search through these
lists (which I haven't been able to locate via search engines) would
help me refine my questions towards and my involvement in this list...

Hope you understand and hope I am not sounding too drab in my
presentatin...

john

--
**********************************************************
John C DeMetrick
CP 28 OP 1 Industrial
3400 Cluj-Napoca, Romania !!WANTED!!
Tel: (40) (064) 124-330 Postcards!
<jdemetrick@mail.dntcj.ro>
**********************************************************


Yiddish Theatre and Vadeville #YiddishTheatre Romania #yiddish

John Demetrick <jdemetrick@...>
 

Let me begin by saying that I am new to the list, but am not
unfamiliar with protocols and will not offend those who have gotten
this far through the sentence with their fingers on the delete
button...

I was born in the United States but have been living in Romania for
three years now. During the last year things have taken a brighter
path as I have become involved in a program concerning the
documentation of Jewish monuments here in Romania (a manner of stating
that I have traversed Maramures far and wide with my partner during
the past summer, documenting and photographing over 130 Jewish
cemeteries) for Jewish folks keen on researching their geneology.

But with that I speak of summer sunshine activities...now the true
harshness of winter falls upon me and I must again find refuge in the
university and state archives of the city of Cluj. For some time now I
have been compiling a reference catalogue of cabaret and variety
performers who appeared on Romanian stages. I have been confining
myself to persons that appear on cinemagraph stages and variety
theaters (avoiding those who appeared regualarly as 'theater'
performers) and have been dying to know if there is more information
out there about "hypnotic dogs" and "egyptian dancers"...

I suspect that many of the performers that I have been coming across
are not 'outrightly Jewish' but at the same time have come across many
references to Jewish/Romanian connection in Romanian performance.

What I would like to ask, as an introduction to this list, is for
people to send me information concerning online databases of
cabaret/theater/variety acts that are currently in existence. I have a
good deal of questions concerning newspaper references and 78rpm
recordings that I have purchased over the past few years that are
currently unanswered. Having the opportunity to search through these
lists (which I haven't been able to locate via search engines) would
help me refine my questions towards and my involvement in this list...

Hope you understand and hope I am not sounding too drab in my
presentatin...

john

--
**********************************************************
John C DeMetrick
CP 28 OP 1 Industrial
3400 Cluj-Napoca, Romania !!WANTED!!
Tel: (40) (064) 124-330 Postcards!
<jdemetrick@mail.dntcj.ro>
**********************************************************


Father's mid name/son's first? #general

Udi Cain
 

Genners,
My great-grandfather, Jacob Abrams (~1886-1940) was Yaakov in Hebrew.
On the tombstone it says "Yaakov ben Aron."

Now..I have a picture of the tombstone of his father, Aron (~1855 -
~1920)and the Hebrew says "Aron Yaakov ben Pinchas."

Can anyone offer any perspective about Jacob's first name being the same
as his father's middle name. Doesn't this go against traditional
Ashkenazic naming??

Thanks!
-Howie Zakai
Staten Island & Binghamton, NY
Researching: ABRAMOVICH/ABRAMOWITZ (Silale, Lithuania);
Dear Howie.

If Aron's surname was Yaakov, and his son's name was Abram. Than Abram
Yaakov, was also the grandson of Pinchas Yaakov.
Somehow, something made Abram to change his name, so he chose a very simple
change, made his surname, his name, and his name became his surname.
Changing of names because of "punishments" >from the authorities, were
regular between Jewish people (aborting army service etc.).
from the other hand (as Kali's worshipers says), if their surname was
originally Abrams / Abramowitz etc. And if the written on the tombstone is
not because of mistake, and if they were not Reforms, and if they were not
from Sepharadic origin or >from Iraq etc. And since his father was still
alive when he was born, your G'grandfather either just got that name because
his father was kind of "rebel", or he himself decided to take his father's
name after 1920, without letting people know of his old name, or because of
what I wrote in the beginning, he had to "grab" another name for escaping,
so he took his father's, second name, that was not "in use", and so he
managed to leave Russia as if he was his father.
Or, his father took the name, pretending that he is his son, so his son can
escape.
I suppose that there can be more suggestions which are as good as others..

Regards. Udi Cain.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Father's mid name/son's first? #general

Udi Cain
 

Genners,
My great-grandfather, Jacob Abrams (~1886-1940) was Yaakov in Hebrew.
On the tombstone it says "Yaakov ben Aron."

Now..I have a picture of the tombstone of his father, Aron (~1855 -
~1920)and the Hebrew says "Aron Yaakov ben Pinchas."

Can anyone offer any perspective about Jacob's first name being the same
as his father's middle name. Doesn't this go against traditional
Ashkenazic naming??

Thanks!
-Howie Zakai
Staten Island & Binghamton, NY
Researching: ABRAMOVICH/ABRAMOWITZ (Silale, Lithuania);
Dear Howie.

If Aron's surname was Yaakov, and his son's name was Abram. Than Abram
Yaakov, was also the grandson of Pinchas Yaakov.
Somehow, something made Abram to change his name, so he chose a very simple
change, made his surname, his name, and his name became his surname.
Changing of names because of "punishments" >from the authorities, were
regular between Jewish people (aborting army service etc.).
from the other hand (as Kali's worshipers says), if their surname was
originally Abrams / Abramowitz etc. And if the written on the tombstone is
not because of mistake, and if they were not Reforms, and if they were not
from Sepharadic origin or >from Iraq etc. And since his father was still
alive when he was born, your G'grandfather either just got that name because
his father was kind of "rebel", or he himself decided to take his father's
name after 1920, without letting people know of his old name, or because of
what I wrote in the beginning, he had to "grab" another name for escaping,
so he took his father's, second name, that was not "in use", and so he
managed to leave Russia as if he was his father.
Or, his father took the name, pretending that he is his son, so his son can
escape.
I suppose that there can be more suggestions which are as good as others..

Regards. Udi Cain.


Choosing your message subject #general

Morton Cohen <cohenme@...>
 

On 1 Nov 2000 12:17:32 -0800, GERRICA@aol.com wrote using the subject line
-: Gary - Joe Lapidus/Goldstone/Stone
The body of the posting refers to a URL that many might find useful. This
posting is just to point out that with that title the URL will never be
found by anyone who takes the time to search the archives for possible
sources for UK/Austrailia Data. >from the posting it appears that the URL
was information shared between readers - and perhaps never posted to the
group with its own proper subject
Perhaps a second posting is in order when including sites of future value.

Morton Cohen
Rochester NY

MODERATOR NOTE: The Discussion Group archives search engine can access
not only the subject line, but also the body of each message.


Berestovitsa, Belarus #general

Irene Newhouse <newhoir@...>
 

I have a copy >from the US Holocaust Museum of a list of Martyrs made by
the Soviet Extraordinary Commission which investigated Nazi war crimes in
the areas occupied by the Soviet Army. It appears to belong to
Berestovitsa, Belarus, a town ssw of Skidel, and not to a village of
similar [but slightly different] name in Lida District. I'd like to
donate this list to an individual or group interested in translating the
list & making it public.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI


Re: observation while walking in a Jewish cemetery #general

MarkGrekin <markgrekin@...>
 

My name is George Hall. My office is located directly across
from a rather large Jewish cemetery in Trevose Pennsylvania.
While walking through the cemetery today I noticed that many
of the gravestones had small piles of rocks on top.
Hi George,

You are, probably, not Jewish. When a relative, a friend, etc. visits a
Jewish grave, he/she puts a stone or several on the deseased tombstone to
say that he/she visited him/her and miss him/her very much. Also that
shows to others that the grave was visited.

Mark Grekin


Re: observation while walking in a Jewish cemetery #general

Howard Zakai
 

Not sure the origin of this custom, but Jews put rocks on top of their loved
ones' tombstones for memory.. i do not know the significance of the rocks
themselves, but the purpose is memory.. I'm sure there are thousands of
genners who would have a better idea....
-Howie Zakai
Staten Island & Binghamton, NY