Date   

Re: Marriages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

Tom Beer <beer_tom@...>
 

<html>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR>&nbsp;</P>This matter has been debated by the BohMohr group.&nbsp; See my analysis at:</DIV>
<DIV><BR><A href="http://www.jewishgen.org/BohMor/towns/adolfbeer.htm" target=_blank>http://www.jewishgen.org/BohMor/towns/adolfbeer.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;SNIP&gt;</DIV>&gt;&gt;From: &quot;Doug Cohen&quot;<DMCOHEN@TIAC.NET>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:33:52 -0500
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;X-Message-Number: 51
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;family, <br clear=all><hr>Get more >from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>


Eisdorfer #hungary

Rhoda Miller <MillerR@...>
 

Dov Eisdorfer of Haifa, Israel has just self-published his one name study =93The
Eisdorfer Family Genealogy: the history of the family, its origin and roots.=94
This book is the result of years of extensive research in various archives
throughout Eastern Europe and the US. This work contains approximately 1200
names divided among 13 identified branches of the Eisdorfer name. The primary
towns >from which this family emerged are Eisdorf, Pasika, Suskov, Brod,
Ilonca, Munckas, Kis-Almas, Nyiraghaza, Kisvarda, Patrohr, Gegany and Ungvar
located in Hungary and the sub-Carpathian region that is currently in the
Ukraine.

Copies of this work are available in Hebrew and English and to date have been
placed in Yad Vashem and Beth Hatefusot.

I have no commercial interest in this work. As an Eisdorfer descendent, I
have worked extensively with him on this project, especially as pertains to
the US research. Dov does not have an e-mail address and so I serve as a
contact for further information.

Rhoda Miller
Babylon, NY

Rhoda Miller, Director
Student Support Services
Dowling College Oakdale, NY 11769
(631) 244-3335 FAX: (631) 589-6644
******************************************


How many marriages? #hungary

Graner Georges <georges.graner@...>
 

Hello,
I am surprised that there is a discussion about the number of marriages
allowed for jews in the Austro-Hungarian empire. It might have been true in
Galicia but not in Hungary.
In my family, there are many cases of brothers who got married legally
without problem.
Moreover George Farkas suggests that an individual could not be married
twice. But my maternal grandfather was married twice and my paternal
grandfather three times (in the years 1890-1900).
Where is the mistake ?
Georges GRANER

************************************************************************
* Tracking #: 0BC07C8801C5D411AF5C0050049D332968A8D1C2
*
************************************************************************


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Marriages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

Tom Beer <beer_tom@...>
 

<html>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR>&nbsp;</P>This matter has been debated by the BohMohr group.&nbsp; See my analysis at:</DIV>
<DIV><BR><A href="http://www.jewishgen.org/BohMor/towns/adolfbeer.htm" target=_blank>http://www.jewishgen.org/BohMor/towns/adolfbeer.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&lt;SNIP&gt;</DIV>&gt;&gt;From: &quot;Doug Cohen&quot;<DMCOHEN@TIAC.NET>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:33:52 -0500
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;X-Message-Number: 51
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;family, <br clear=all><hr>Get more >from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>


Hungary SIG #Hungary Eisdorfer #hungary

Rhoda Miller <MillerR@...>
 

Dov Eisdorfer of Haifa, Israel has just self-published his one name study =93The
Eisdorfer Family Genealogy: the history of the family, its origin and roots.=94
This book is the result of years of extensive research in various archives
throughout Eastern Europe and the US. This work contains approximately 1200
names divided among 13 identified branches of the Eisdorfer name. The primary
towns >from which this family emerged are Eisdorf, Pasika, Suskov, Brod,
Ilonca, Munckas, Kis-Almas, Nyiraghaza, Kisvarda, Patrohr, Gegany and Ungvar
located in Hungary and the sub-Carpathian region that is currently in the
Ukraine.

Copies of this work are available in Hebrew and English and to date have been
placed in Yad Vashem and Beth Hatefusot.

I have no commercial interest in this work. As an Eisdorfer descendent, I
have worked extensively with him on this project, especially as pertains to
the US research. Dov does not have an e-mail address and so I serve as a
contact for further information.

Rhoda Miller
Babylon, NY

Rhoda Miller, Director
Student Support Services
Dowling College Oakdale, NY 11769
(631) 244-3335 FAX: (631) 589-6644
******************************************


Hungary SIG #Hungary How many marriages? #hungary

Graner Georges <georges.graner@...>
 

Hello,
I am surprised that there is a discussion about the number of marriages
allowed for jews in the Austro-Hungarian empire. It might have been true in
Galicia but not in Hungary.
In my family, there are many cases of brothers who got married legally
without problem.
Moreover George Farkas suggests that an individual could not be married
twice. But my maternal grandfather was married twice and my paternal
grandfather three times (in the years 1890-1900).
Where is the mistake ?
Georges GRANER

************************************************************************
* Tracking #: 0BC07C8801C5D411AF5C0050049D332968A8D1C2
*
************************************************************************


Debrecen-Information about the city, lists of martyrs and survivors #hungary

Susanne Belovari <belovari@...>
 

HI!
In case some of you do not know about the following resources, (as I did
not), I am sending on what the NAtional Library in Budapest and an archive
in Debrecen wrote to me.


"Deportált Híradó" (The news of the deported people) was published in
Szatmár (Satu Mare, town in the North-East of Transylvania, nowadays part of
Romania) on Jul. 8, 1945 only a few numbers appeared, till Aug. 12, 1945 and
it might list deaths of Jews >from Debrecen. Unfortunately it cannot be found
in any major library in Hungary, but according to a recent research the
"Central Library of the Babes-Bolyai Univerity" of Kolozsvár (Cluj,
Romania)contains these items (the call number is most probably P 2965).

There is a book in the NAtional library that might be useful for your
search, namely: Gonda, Moshe Elijahu: A debreceni zsidók száz éve. ( The One
Hundred Years of the Jews of Debrecen) Tel Aviv; Hungarian and Hebrew. It
includes an account of the various aspects of the city's Jewish life as well
as brief reviews of the neighbouring Jewish communities, pages 323-409
contain the list of martyrs.


There is also a book published by Gonda Moshe Elijahu, 1000 Jahre der Juden
von Debrecen (Tel Aviv 1971 A Thousand Years of Jews >from Debrecen), which
includes at least a list of martyrs. I do not know whether it also includes
information by and about survivors.

Hope this is helpful to someone else, Susanne Belovari
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more >from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Debrecen-Information about the city, lists of martyrs and survivors #hungary

Susanne Belovari <belovari@...>
 

HI!
In case some of you do not know about the following resources, (as I did
not), I am sending on what the NAtional Library in Budapest and an archive
in Debrecen wrote to me.


"Deportált Híradó" (The news of the deported people) was published in
Szatmár (Satu Mare, town in the North-East of Transylvania, nowadays part of
Romania) on Jul. 8, 1945 only a few numbers appeared, till Aug. 12, 1945 and
it might list deaths of Jews >from Debrecen. Unfortunately it cannot be found
in any major library in Hungary, but according to a recent research the
"Central Library of the Babes-Bolyai Univerity" of Kolozsvár (Cluj,
Romania)contains these items (the call number is most probably P 2965).

There is a book in the NAtional library that might be useful for your
search, namely: Gonda, Moshe Elijahu: A debreceni zsidók száz éve. ( The One
Hundred Years of the Jews of Debrecen) Tel Aviv; Hungarian and Hebrew. It
includes an account of the various aspects of the city's Jewish life as well
as brief reviews of the neighbouring Jewish communities, pages 323-409
contain the list of martyrs.


There is also a book published by Gonda Moshe Elijahu, 1000 Jahre der Juden
von Debrecen (Tel Aviv 1971 A Thousand Years of Jews >from Debrecen), which
includes at least a list of martyrs. I do not know whether it also includes
information by and about survivors.

Hope this is helpful to someone else, Susanne Belovari
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more >from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


Re: Tracing Munkacs Holocaust 'survivor' #hungary

come@...
 

Louis Schonfeld wrote:

Today, he received a stunning call >from the Red Cross. After 10 years,
they are ready to supply him with details about his missing brother, Bernard
or Beryl or Barry Smilovic.Long assumed dead by the surviving members of the
Smilovic household, Beryl never made his way back home to Muncaks following
liberation. But he also was never listed in any formal document as deceased.
Smilovic sounds like an unusual name, so if this is any help there is a listing for an M.
Smilovic in Sydney, Australia. There is a fairly well known comedian in Australia by the
name of George (I think) Smilovic in his 30's who is probably related to this listing.
Email me and I will give you the address and phone number in the phone book if you're
interested.

Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: FWD: Tracing Munkacs Holocaust 'survivor' #hungary

come@...
 

Louis Schonfeld wrote:

Today, he received a stunning call >from the Red Cross. After 10 years,
they are ready to supply him with details about his missing brother, Bernard
or Beryl or Barry Smilovic.Long assumed dead by the surviving members of the
Smilovic household, Beryl never made his way back home to Muncaks following
liberation. But he also was never listed in any formal document as deceased.
Smilovic sounds like an unusual name, so if this is any help there is a listing for an M.
Smilovic in Sydney, Australia. There is a fairly well known comedian in Australia by the
name of George (I think) Smilovic in his 30's who is probably related to this listing.
Email me and I will give you the address and phone number in the phone book if you're
interested.

Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia


Simon SCHWARTZ #hungary

Roberta Solit <rsolit@...>
 

I received a copy of the Declaration of Intention >from Brooklyn for the
wrong Simon SCHWARTZ . This man was born in Dolina, Austria on 26th of
May, 1886. His last foreign residence was Stryj, Austria. He arrived in the
US (NY) in 1907. If you are related to this Simon Schwartz, I will be happy
to mail the document to you.
The Simon SCHWARTZ I am looking for arrived in NY prior to 1902 and was the
brother in law of Marton Berger >from Szollos (Vinogradov).
Roberta Solit


Hungary SIG #Hungary Simon SCHWARTZ #hungary

Roberta Solit <rsolit@...>
 

I received a copy of the Declaration of Intention >from Brooklyn for the
wrong Simon SCHWARTZ . This man was born in Dolina, Austria on 26th of
May, 1886. His last foreign residence was Stryj, Austria. He arrived in the
US (NY) in 1907. If you are related to this Simon Schwartz, I will be happy
to mail the document to you.
The Simon SCHWARTZ I am looking for arrived in NY prior to 1902 and was the
brother in law of Marton Berger >from Szollos (Vinogradov).
Roberta Solit


Arava district, Galicia #hungary

Gary Luke <feraltek@...>
 

Is there anyone else with an interest in small towns near NOWY TARG in the
Arawa district of western Galicia - JABLONKA, PEKELNIK, SLANITZ - near
TRSTENA and NAMESTOVO. My family lived around there >from at least the early
1800s until the Holocaust. Surnames are WICHS, STILLER, SIMPLER, GRASZGRUN,
married to TANDLICH, KURCZ, POLACSEK, SCHIFFER.

Jonas & Cecilia WICHS migrated to USA in 1908 - descendents are CLIFTON,
GROSSWIRTH, WICKS, SHULMAN, and others.

Gary

===================
Gary Luke
feraltek@zeta.org.au
fax +61-2-9519-9907
Sydney, Australia

mod.-I am not sure why this post was sent to the H-sig and not to Galicia sig, but if it may help somebody it's worth putting it through.LS


Hungary SIG #Hungary Arava district, Galicia #hungary

Gary Luke <feraltek@...>
 

Is there anyone else with an interest in small towns near NOWY TARG in the
Arawa district of western Galicia - JABLONKA, PEKELNIK, SLANITZ - near
TRSTENA and NAMESTOVO. My family lived around there >from at least the early
1800s until the Holocaust. Surnames are WICHS, STILLER, SIMPLER, GRASZGRUN,
married to TANDLICH, KURCZ, POLACSEK, SCHIFFER.

Jonas & Cecilia WICHS migrated to USA in 1908 - descendents are CLIFTON,
GROSSWIRTH, WICKS, SHULMAN, and others.

Gary

===================
Gary Luke
feraltek@zeta.org.au
fax +61-2-9519-9907
Sydney, Australia

mod.-I am not sure why this post was sent to the H-sig and not to Galicia sig, but if it may help somebody it's worth putting it through.LS


Copyright Laws Summary #general

suprlmn@...
 

Thank you all for your help, support, advice, etc. on the subject of
copyright laws. Those who wrote to me privately have been answered
privately. Following is a brief summary of the remarks:
1. All personal works and compilations can be copyrighted. The person
could sue you until he's 'blue in the face' but would have to prove to a
court that you profitted in some monetary way by publishing his data in
order to collect any damages.
2. Your relative does not own the public records which provided data.
3. A copyright proclaims your ownership of the form [the wording for
example] in which you put your data, not the data itself.
4. There is no copyright in "facts, news, ideas or information. Copyright
exists in the form in which information is expressed and the selection and
arrangement of the material, all of which involves skill and labour."
Source: McNae's Essential Law for Journalists by Tom Welsh and Walter
Greenwood, published by Butterworths.
5. Copyright law protects an author's work in the creative expression
of his ideas. It does not cover facts. It also only covers the author's
original work. If you gave this strange person some information, you still
have rights in that information, to use it as you see fit.
6. Family history belongs to all the family -- it is not a 'created' work
as such (to be copyrightable I believe it has to be something created and
not in existence anywhere else)...snip... Jeez, and I thought my family
was bad.
B'shalom,
Susan Pearlman, Northridge, California
Researching [inter alia]:
JASKOLKA, JELIN [YELLIN], JOSZPA [YOSHPE], KOSLOVSKY [KOZLOWSKI],
RUBENSTEIN, SIDRANSKY, SZOR [SHORE], SZEJNMAN [SCHEINMAN], and what started
all this: WISHNIATSKY.


Warszawa in the years 1850 #general

Mendelssohn <mendelssohn@...>
 

Dear Genners,
I would like to find books relating the life in Warszawa in the years
1850..(the addresses of my Mendelssohn ancestors are given only by numbers:
2929,2930 in a part of the city named "new world", 10th ardt of
Warszawa.What does it mean?)
Thanks in advance!
Florence Mendelssohn (Paris),France

MENDELSSOHN(russian Poland 19th),RUBINSTEIN (Kharkov;St-Petersburg),
SZULCMAN (Schultzman),PRENTKA, KAHN, DUTLINGER (Poland),BRANDON
(Holland and France).


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Copyright Laws Summary #general

suprlmn@...
 

Thank you all for your help, support, advice, etc. on the subject of
copyright laws. Those who wrote to me privately have been answered
privately. Following is a brief summary of the remarks:
1. All personal works and compilations can be copyrighted. The person
could sue you until he's 'blue in the face' but would have to prove to a
court that you profitted in some monetary way by publishing his data in
order to collect any damages.
2. Your relative does not own the public records which provided data.
3. A copyright proclaims your ownership of the form [the wording for
example] in which you put your data, not the data itself.
4. There is no copyright in "facts, news, ideas or information. Copyright
exists in the form in which information is expressed and the selection and
arrangement of the material, all of which involves skill and labour."
Source: McNae's Essential Law for Journalists by Tom Welsh and Walter
Greenwood, published by Butterworths.
5. Copyright law protects an author's work in the creative expression
of his ideas. It does not cover facts. It also only covers the author's
original work. If you gave this strange person some information, you still
have rights in that information, to use it as you see fit.
6. Family history belongs to all the family -- it is not a 'created' work
as such (to be copyrightable I believe it has to be something created and
not in existence anywhere else)...snip... Jeez, and I thought my family
was bad.
B'shalom,
Susan Pearlman, Northridge, California
Researching [inter alia]:
JASKOLKA, JELIN [YELLIN], JOSZPA [YOSHPE], KOSLOVSKY [KOZLOWSKI],
RUBENSTEIN, SIDRANSKY, SZOR [SHORE], SZEJNMAN [SCHEINMAN], and what started
all this: WISHNIATSKY.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Warszawa in the years 1850 #general

Mendelssohn <mendelssohn@...>
 

Dear Genners,
I would like to find books relating the life in Warszawa in the years
1850..(the addresses of my Mendelssohn ancestors are given only by numbers:
2929,2930 in a part of the city named "new world", 10th ardt of
Warszawa.What does it mean?)
Thanks in advance!
Florence Mendelssohn (Paris),France

MENDELSSOHN(russian Poland 19th),RUBINSTEIN (Kharkov;St-Petersburg),
SZULCMAN (Schultzman),PRENTKA, KAHN, DUTLINGER (Poland),BRANDON
(Holland and France).


LEVITT Surname from Lith. to South Africa, USA #general

Chuck Weinstein <cweinstein@...>
 

Posting for a friend who does not have access to JewishGen - His father,
Simon LEVITT left >from Ritavas, Lithuania, bound for Johannesburg, South
Africa in 1900 with his father, Notte (Nathan), and his younger sister,
Lily. Two older brothers, Ben Zion and Barnett had already settled in
South Africa.

About ten years earlier, two older sisters had come to the US. He does
not know where they settled, but he is hoping that some of this might be
familiar to someone. He is now living in Foster City, CA.
Unfortunately, he does not know the names of his aunts who came to the
US. Can anyone out in 'genland help out?

Chuck Weinstein in San Mateo, CA
cweinstein@jewishgen.org


Re: Palestinian Jews #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Has anyone ever read any accounts of people who are Jewish according
to Halacha who are Palestinians* (or other Arabs) because their mothers
were Jews?

I have been in touch with one such individual whose mother's mother
married an Arab many years ago and lived in an Arab town. I think
this is a very interesting subject. I think I read somewhere that
there is a clan of Palestinians on the West Bank who claim Jewish
ancestry.

David Goldman

David's question is indeed an interesting one, because Jewish law (quite
anomalously and for insufficiently researched historical reasons) defines
Jewishness matrilineally while Islamic law (more normally for patriarchal
cultures, including European ones in earlier times) defines it
patrilineally. Consequently, as a matter of Islamic and Jewish law
respectively, the child of an Arab father and a Jewish mother will
automatically be perceived as an Arab and by the father and his family
(and, by Islamic law, as a Muslim, if that is the father's religion -- some
Arabs are Christians, of course) and will automatically qualify as a Jew
by Jewish law! This gives the child a theoretical choice when he or she
grows up.

However, in real life, such marriages normally resulted in the couple
settling down in the father's home town or village, so the child was
normally raised as a Muslim (or Christian if that was the father's faith)
and either way the likelihood of his or her choosing later on to become a
Jew is rather remote. (I'm not saying it never happens, of course.) And
certainly as a matter of Jewish law, it is possible, provided that the
individual can prove that the Jewish ethnicity (or orthodox conversion) of
his mother.

A marriage between a Jewish man and a Muslim woman would be far less likely
to occur -- because her family would not countenance it and Arab girls were
and are traditionally far more under the control of their families than
were Jewish girls >from secular families. But the child of such a marriage
would not be considered a Jew unless he or she converted to Judaism (or
unless the mother had converted before conception of the child).

Judith Romney Wegner

*It is worth noting that before 1948, virtually the only people who
actually defined themselves as "Palestinian" were Jews residing in that
country, who had been issued Palestinian passports by the British Mandate
authorities! (I have seen more than one such passport.) An Arab resident
back then would have been equally entitled to such a passport, but
proportionately fewerArabs than Jews living in Palestine travelled abroad;
and culturally speaking, it was not routine for any Arab to define himself
as a Palestinian back then, even if for convenience he had acquired a
Palestinian passport >from the mandate authorities.)