Date   

Tarnow 1854 school children. #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

I was asked by the past president of the Polish Genealogical Society of
America, Mr. Paul Valasek to bring the following to your attention.

The Polish genealogical website PolishRoots features a small database of
school children in Tarnow in 1854. There are many Jewish names alongside
with the Polish ones.

The page is at: http://www.polishroots.org/tarnow_school.htm

Peter Jassem
Toronto, Ontario
jassep@tdbank.ca


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Tarnow 1854 school children. #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

I was asked by the past president of the Polish Genealogical Society of
America, Mr. Paul Valasek to bring the following to your attention.

The Polish genealogical website PolishRoots features a small database of
school children in Tarnow in 1854. There are many Jewish names alongside
with the Polish ones.

The page is at: http://www.polishroots.org/tarnow_school.htm

Peter Jassem
Toronto, Ontario
jassep@tdbank.ca


JewishGenMal's Passover Specials #latinamerica

Carol Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

With Chanukah behind us, can Passover be very far ahead? Not according to
the JewishGenMall managers who have a spectacular array of Passover books,
gifts, software and videos ready and waiting for you to visit the Mall and
take a look at this fabulous selection.

Just to give you some idea of the range of items.... we have the famous
"Survivor's Hagadah", created in the winter of 1945-46 by Holocaust
survivors in displaced persons camps around Munich. This is an
extraordinary illustrated haggadah prepared for the first Passover after
liberation. Now the Jewish Publication Society is proud to issue this
facsimile edition, previously translated into English and published by the
American Jewish Historical Society only as a limited edition. Interwoven
with the traditional Passover liturgy are two stories: that of the
deliverance of the Pharoah in Egypt, and the Holocaust story of those Jews
who survived Hitler.

There is also a variety of other fascinating Hagadahs including
(especially for the computer cognizant among us) CD-Rom Hagadahs and
Software for both Windows and Mac users <grin>

Would you believe even the rugrats are getting into the swing of
things.....Passover videos for kids..."A Rugrats Passover" Speaking of
Passover gifts for kids, you'll find "A Treasury of Sholom Aleichim
Children's Stories" and the classic Passover song illustrated and hand
lettered "One Little Goat-Had Gadya"

Last, but certainly not least the Mall has some wonderful gift items
including "Chagall: Love and the Stage: 1914-1922"; "The Illustrated Torah"
with wonderful conemporary illustrations by Micahel Meron ; and the
anthology "In Every Generation: A Treasury of Inspiration for Passover and
the Seder"

Much much more....too numerous to list here...this message was just to give
you a taste of what is in the mall, awaiting your visit to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgenmall/

And please remember that your purchases in the Mall help support the
JewishGen Operations budget.

Carol Skydell, V.P. JewishGen Operations


Latin America #LatinAmerica JewishGenMal's Passover Specials #latinamerica

Carol Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

With Chanukah behind us, can Passover be very far ahead? Not according to
the JewishGenMall managers who have a spectacular array of Passover books,
gifts, software and videos ready and waiting for you to visit the Mall and
take a look at this fabulous selection.

Just to give you some idea of the range of items.... we have the famous
"Survivor's Hagadah", created in the winter of 1945-46 by Holocaust
survivors in displaced persons camps around Munich. This is an
extraordinary illustrated haggadah prepared for the first Passover after
liberation. Now the Jewish Publication Society is proud to issue this
facsimile edition, previously translated into English and published by the
American Jewish Historical Society only as a limited edition. Interwoven
with the traditional Passover liturgy are two stories: that of the
deliverance of the Pharoah in Egypt, and the Holocaust story of those Jews
who survived Hitler.

There is also a variety of other fascinating Hagadahs including
(especially for the computer cognizant among us) CD-Rom Hagadahs and
Software for both Windows and Mac users <grin>

Would you believe even the rugrats are getting into the swing of
things.....Passover videos for kids..."A Rugrats Passover" Speaking of
Passover gifts for kids, you'll find "A Treasury of Sholom Aleichim
Children's Stories" and the classic Passover song illustrated and hand
lettered "One Little Goat-Had Gadya"

Last, but certainly not least the Mall has some wonderful gift items
including "Chagall: Love and the Stage: 1914-1922"; "The Illustrated Torah"
with wonderful conemporary illustrations by Micahel Meron ; and the
anthology "In Every Generation: A Treasury of Inspiration for Passover and
the Seder"

Much much more....too numerous to list here...this message was just to give
you a taste of what is in the mall, awaiting your visit to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgenmall/

And please remember that your purchases in the Mall help support the
JewishGen Operations budget.

Carol Skydell, V.P. JewishGen Operations


Re: Pearl SIMON-Workmans Circle #general

Jennifer Block Martin <jbmartin@...>
 

I was in contact with the Workman's Circle recently for reasons other
than genealogy. Here's the contact info I have:

Catherine Carney
The Jewish Book Center of The Workmen's Circle
45 East 33rd Street
New York, NY 10016
917-648-7916
212-889-6800 x 285
fax 212-889-8519

Good luck,

Jennifer Block

-----Original Message-----
From: Naomi Strichartz [mailto:nrs@lightlink.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:49 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Pearl SIMON-Workmans Circle

I wonder if Workman's Circle keeps any records. My grandmother died in
1965. Up until her death she took classes sponsored by Workman's Circle.
I believe it was in Brighton Beach, but may have been in lower
Manhattan. She worked in the garment industry at first and then owned a
dress shop. I know she belonged to a sewers union as well. Any
suggestions?
Thank You,
Naomi Strichartz
nrs@lightlink.com


BERNSTEIN from Lima, Ohio and maybe from Sejny, Lithuania #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

I've been researching my LEVINE/LEVINSKY/BIALAGORSKY family for the past
25 years. Of late I've been fortunate in finding some "long lost"
ancestors that everyone seemed to have "lost" contact with many years
ago.

Yesterday I spoke with a gentleman (living in Pittsburgh), who gave me
some very interesting information about his maternal uncle. The more he
told me about this man, the more intrigued I became. I'm thinking that
it is very possible that his uncle might well be the son of a "missing
link" among my own mggm's siblings.

My mggm's family surname was originally BIALAGORSKY. We believe that
they came >from the Suwalki or Sejny area of "Lithuania/Poland"
(depending upon the historical time frame). When the children of Lazar
Bialagorsky left home they wound up settling in Ontario Prov., Canada;
Philadelphia, PA; Pittsburgh, PA; Chicago, IL; probably Boston, MA.
These folks took the more Anglicized surnames of LAVINE, LEVIN, LEVINE,
LEVINSKY, and LEVY.

However, we know (>from stories by family elders) that one of Lazar B's
sons was adopted by a wealthy cousin who needed a son to carry on his
family name - BERNSTEIN. For the last five years, I've been searching
for any information I might find regarding that man Saul
Bialagorsky/Bernstein. [And, yes, before you ask I *have* checked JGFF.]

The gentleman >from Pittsburgh told me about his uncle BERNSTEIN's
family. Here's what I DO know:

Max BERNSTEIN came >from "Pashva, Lithuania"
[I believe that is actually PAZIBAI which is
located 86.5 mi. NNW of Vilna]

Max was probably born sometime in the 1880s or 90s,
and probably died sometime in the 1940s or 50s.

Max immigrated to the USA and settled in Lima, OH
where he was a successful businessman in many
different enterprises, including the manufacture
and sales of automobiles and trucks for military
use in WW1.

Max had at least three children:
Clarence - who wound up living in Detroit, MI
Maxine - who married a man named BROEDE
and wound up living in NYC area
"sister" who married a man named Emil LEVY
who owned the Lima Mattress Mfgr. Co. in
Lima, OH.

I know that this isn't much to go on, but I'm hoping that maybe someone
on the list might find some of the information "familiar" enough that
they will respond to this post. If any of this information sounds even
vaguely familiar to you, please write to me privately
<rickiz@mindspring.com>

Thank you in advance,

Ricki Lynn Randall Zunk
South Florida


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Pearl SIMON-Workmans Circle #general

Jennifer Block Martin <jbmartin@...>
 

I was in contact with the Workman's Circle recently for reasons other
than genealogy. Here's the contact info I have:

Catherine Carney
The Jewish Book Center of The Workmen's Circle
45 East 33rd Street
New York, NY 10016
917-648-7916
212-889-6800 x 285
fax 212-889-8519

Good luck,

Jennifer Block

-----Original Message-----
From: Naomi Strichartz [mailto:nrs@lightlink.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:49 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Pearl SIMON-Workmans Circle

I wonder if Workman's Circle keeps any records. My grandmother died in
1965. Up until her death she took classes sponsored by Workman's Circle.
I believe it was in Brighton Beach, but may have been in lower
Manhattan. She worked in the garment industry at first and then owned a
dress shop. I know she belonged to a sewers union as well. Any
suggestions?
Thank You,
Naomi Strichartz
nrs@lightlink.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen BERNSTEIN from Lima, Ohio and maybe from Sejny, Lithuania #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

I've been researching my LEVINE/LEVINSKY/BIALAGORSKY family for the past
25 years. Of late I've been fortunate in finding some "long lost"
ancestors that everyone seemed to have "lost" contact with many years
ago.

Yesterday I spoke with a gentleman (living in Pittsburgh), who gave me
some very interesting information about his maternal uncle. The more he
told me about this man, the more intrigued I became. I'm thinking that
it is very possible that his uncle might well be the son of a "missing
link" among my own mggm's siblings.

My mggm's family surname was originally BIALAGORSKY. We believe that
they came >from the Suwalki or Sejny area of "Lithuania/Poland"
(depending upon the historical time frame). When the children of Lazar
Bialagorsky left home they wound up settling in Ontario Prov., Canada;
Philadelphia, PA; Pittsburgh, PA; Chicago, IL; probably Boston, MA.
These folks took the more Anglicized surnames of LAVINE, LEVIN, LEVINE,
LEVINSKY, and LEVY.

However, we know (>from stories by family elders) that one of Lazar B's
sons was adopted by a wealthy cousin who needed a son to carry on his
family name - BERNSTEIN. For the last five years, I've been searching
for any information I might find regarding that man Saul
Bialagorsky/Bernstein. [And, yes, before you ask I *have* checked JGFF.]

The gentleman >from Pittsburgh told me about his uncle BERNSTEIN's
family. Here's what I DO know:

Max BERNSTEIN came >from "Pashva, Lithuania"
[I believe that is actually PAZIBAI which is
located 86.5 mi. NNW of Vilna]

Max was probably born sometime in the 1880s or 90s,
and probably died sometime in the 1940s or 50s.

Max immigrated to the USA and settled in Lima, OH
where he was a successful businessman in many
different enterprises, including the manufacture
and sales of automobiles and trucks for military
use in WW1.

Max had at least three children:
Clarence - who wound up living in Detroit, MI
Maxine - who married a man named BROEDE
and wound up living in NYC area
"sister" who married a man named Emil LEVY
who owned the Lima Mattress Mfgr. Co. in
Lima, OH.

I know that this isn't much to go on, but I'm hoping that maybe someone
on the list might find some of the information "familiar" enough that
they will respond to this post. If any of this information sounds even
vaguely familiar to you, please write to me privately
<rickiz@mindspring.com>

Thank you in advance,

Ricki Lynn Randall Zunk
South Florida


Tarnow 1854 school children. #poland

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

I was asked by the past president of the Polish Genealogical Society of
America, Mr. Paul Valasek to bring the following to your attention.

The Polish genealogical website PolishRoots features a small database of
school children in Tarnow in 1854. There are many Jewish names alongside
with the Polish ones.

The page is at: http://www.polishroots.org/tarnow_school.htm

Peter Jassem
Toronto, Ontario
jassep@tdbank.ca


JRI Poland #Poland Tarnow 1854 school children. #poland

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

I was asked by the past president of the Polish Genealogical Society of
America, Mr. Paul Valasek to bring the following to your attention.

The Polish genealogical website PolishRoots features a small database of
school children in Tarnow in 1854. There are many Jewish names alongside
with the Polish ones.

The page is at: http://www.polishroots.org/tarnow_school.htm

Peter Jassem
Toronto, Ontario
jassep@tdbank.ca


Re: Kapizhnitze Rebbe of Bukowina #general

bertischa@...
 

My father was a "Chasid" of the Kapitshnitzer Rebbe.As a child in the early
1950's my father took me to visit him.He lived in the Lower East Side of
Manhattan{I believe on Henry St.}and had a small Shul there. His name I
believe was Avraham Joshua Heschel.He was a cousin of the famous philosopher
and theologan Abraham Joshua Heschel.My father knew the Rebbe >from Vienna
during the 1920's and 1930's.The Rebbe moved to Vienna >from Galicia, Poland.
I attended school[Yeshiva]in Brooklyn during the 1950's with the Rebbe's son
.We called him "Zeesha" Heschel. He also had at least one older brother.
They both still live in Brooklyn[Boro Park section} New York,I believe. I
have not been in touch with them for years.
The Rebbe was a truly great, pious and revered and beloved Chassidic
leader.He has been written about and his legacy is still prominent in
Chassidic society.
I trust the above has been helpful.

Sincerely,

Dr. Abraham Bertisch
Raanana, Israel


I'm wondering whether anyone's ever heard of the "Kapizhnitze" Rebbe
(I'm sure I've massacred the spelling).

In 1905, the Sadagorer Rebbe gave an amulet to my greatgrandmother, Etie
Ruchel REISCH, which resulted in my grandfather's birth, and the
Kapizhnitze Rebbe was the one who named my grandfather, Pinchas REIFER.
I would love to know what area he livd in, what he was known for, etc.

Thanks for any help you can give,

Jane Ehrlich Reifer
Fullerton, California, USA


JewishGenMal's Passover Specials #poland

Carol Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

With Chanukah behind us, can Passover be very far ahead? Not according to
the JewishGenMall managers who have a spectacular array of Passover books,
gifts, software and videos ready and waiting for you to visit the Mall and
take a look at this fabulous selection.

Just to give you some idea of the range of items.... we have the famous
"Survivor's Hagadah", created in the winter of 1945-46 by Holocaust
survivors in displaced persons camps around Munich. This is an
extraordinary illustrated haggadah prepared for the first Passover after
liberation. Now the Jewish Publication Society is proud to issue this
facsimile edition, previously translated into English and published by the
American Jewish Historical Society only as a limited edition. Interwoven
with the traditional Passover liturgy are two stories: that of the
deliverance of the Pharoah in Egypt, and the Holocaust story of those Jews
who survived Hitler.

There is also a variety of other fascinating Hagadahs including
(especially for the computer cognizant among us) CD-Rom Hagadahs and
Software for both Windows and Mac users <grin>

Would you believe even the rugrats are getting into the swing of
things.....Passover videos for kids..."A Rugrats Passover" Speaking of
Passover gifts for kids, you'll find "A Treasury of Sholom Aleichim
Children's Stories" and the classic Passover song illustrated and hand
lettered "One Little Goat-Had Gadya"

Last, but certainly not least the Mall has some wonderful gift items
including "Chagall: Love and the Stage: 1914-1922"; "The Illustrated Torah"
with wonderful conemporary illustrations by Micahel Meron ; and the
anthology "In Every Generation: A Treasury of Inspiration for Passover and
the Seder"

Much much more....too numerous to list here...this message was just to give
you a taste of what is in the mall, awaiting your visit to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgenmall/

And please remember that your purchases in the Mall help support the
JewishGen Operations budget.

Carol Skydell, V.P. JewishGen Operations


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Kapizhnitze Rebbe of Bukowina #general

bertischa@...
 

My father was a "Chasid" of the Kapitshnitzer Rebbe.As a child in the early
1950's my father took me to visit him.He lived in the Lower East Side of
Manhattan{I believe on Henry St.}and had a small Shul there. His name I
believe was Avraham Joshua Heschel.He was a cousin of the famous philosopher
and theologan Abraham Joshua Heschel.My father knew the Rebbe >from Vienna
during the 1920's and 1930's.The Rebbe moved to Vienna >from Galicia, Poland.
I attended school[Yeshiva]in Brooklyn during the 1950's with the Rebbe's son
.We called him "Zeesha" Heschel. He also had at least one older brother.
They both still live in Brooklyn[Boro Park section} New York,I believe. I
have not been in touch with them for years.
The Rebbe was a truly great, pious and revered and beloved Chassidic
leader.He has been written about and his legacy is still prominent in
Chassidic society.
I trust the above has been helpful.

Sincerely,

Dr. Abraham Bertisch
Raanana, Israel


I'm wondering whether anyone's ever heard of the "Kapizhnitze" Rebbe
(I'm sure I've massacred the spelling).

In 1905, the Sadagorer Rebbe gave an amulet to my greatgrandmother, Etie
Ruchel REISCH, which resulted in my grandfather's birth, and the
Kapizhnitze Rebbe was the one who named my grandfather, Pinchas REIFER.
I would love to know what area he livd in, what he was known for, etc.

Thanks for any help you can give,

Jane Ehrlich Reifer
Fullerton, California, USA


JRI Poland #Poland JewishGenMal's Passover Specials #poland

Carol Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

With Chanukah behind us, can Passover be very far ahead? Not according to
the JewishGenMall managers who have a spectacular array of Passover books,
gifts, software and videos ready and waiting for you to visit the Mall and
take a look at this fabulous selection.

Just to give you some idea of the range of items.... we have the famous
"Survivor's Hagadah", created in the winter of 1945-46 by Holocaust
survivors in displaced persons camps around Munich. This is an
extraordinary illustrated haggadah prepared for the first Passover after
liberation. Now the Jewish Publication Society is proud to issue this
facsimile edition, previously translated into English and published by the
American Jewish Historical Society only as a limited edition. Interwoven
with the traditional Passover liturgy are two stories: that of the
deliverance of the Pharoah in Egypt, and the Holocaust story of those Jews
who survived Hitler.

There is also a variety of other fascinating Hagadahs including
(especially for the computer cognizant among us) CD-Rom Hagadahs and
Software for both Windows and Mac users <grin>

Would you believe even the rugrats are getting into the swing of
things.....Passover videos for kids..."A Rugrats Passover" Speaking of
Passover gifts for kids, you'll find "A Treasury of Sholom Aleichim
Children's Stories" and the classic Passover song illustrated and hand
lettered "One Little Goat-Had Gadya"

Last, but certainly not least the Mall has some wonderful gift items
including "Chagall: Love and the Stage: 1914-1922"; "The Illustrated Torah"
with wonderful conemporary illustrations by Micahel Meron ; and the
anthology "In Every Generation: A Treasury of Inspiration for Passover and
the Seder"

Much much more....too numerous to list here...this message was just to give
you a taste of what is in the mall, awaiting your visit to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgenmall/

And please remember that your purchases in the Mall help support the
JewishGen Operations budget.

Carol Skydell, V.P. JewishGen Operations


WIENIAWA: A geography question #poland

Ernest G Holzmann <eholzman@...>
 

Does anyone know if there was a Lublin suburb named Wieniawa which I
imagine would be closer than 5122N 2048E to Lublin - in the modern
definition anyway or would the 5122N 2048E Wieniawa be considered a
suburb of Lublin in 1865.
Wieniawa was a district in Lublin before the II World War (the inhabitants
were mainly Jews) and Wieniawa still is a district of Lublin. It was
completely destroyed during the war

Regards and wishes,
Wieslaw

************************************************
Wieslaw Landowski
http://www.wieland.tuchola.pl/
tel. PL (52) 33 64 062
*************************************************


JRI Poland #Poland WIENIAWA: A geography question #poland

Ernest G Holzmann <eholzman@...>
 

Does anyone know if there was a Lublin suburb named Wieniawa which I
imagine would be closer than 5122N 2048E to Lublin - in the modern
definition anyway or would the 5122N 2048E Wieniawa be considered a
suburb of Lublin in 1865.
Wieniawa was a district in Lublin before the II World War (the inhabitants
were mainly Jews) and Wieniawa still is a district of Lublin. It was
completely destroyed during the war

Regards and wishes,
Wieslaw

************************************************
Wieslaw Landowski
http://www.wieland.tuchola.pl/
tel. PL (52) 33 64 062
*************************************************


Jewish Wedding-Witness Qualifications #general

Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
 

Eloise Hintersteiner wrote:

Some marriage certificates for my family (New York City circa 1910-
1925) have witnesses with the same surname as one of the parties getting
married. I am trying to determine if the witnesses are actually related
by blood or marriage to the bride/groom.

What are the specific requirements to be a legally valid witness to a
Jewish wedding ceremony? Can it be a parent, sibling, uncle, first
cousin, brother-in-law, etc? Have the requirements been modified in the
past 100 years?
To which Michael Bernet replied:

Two witnesses are required, adult males, who are observant and keep the
Sabbath according to all Orthodox requirements. In most communities it
would not be an immediate relative, father, brother, but it could be a
cousin, uncle or brother-in-law. The groom (and the bride--and just about
anyone else, I guess) can sign the ketuba if they wish--but they are not
in a position to be legal witnesses. The witnesses attest to the fact
that the groom betrothed the bride, and that he promised to fulfill the
obligations written in the ketuba.
The latter, but not the former. The kethuba is usually signed before
the commencement of the kidushin -marriage ceremony- so the witnesses
theret0 cannot attest to the betrothal (which has not yet taken
place). The witnesses signed on the kethuba attest that they have
seen the bridegroom commit himself contractually to the obligations
therein. They must be adult observant Jewish males who are not
related to each other or to either of the parties to the marriage.
Uncles, cousins and brothers-in-law are all unsuitable ("posul") to
act. Many communities do not even allow second cousins.

Someone else wrote:

The bride and groom would each have a witness.
While this may sound strange, it is practised in some communities.
Serving as a witness to the kesubo, (or indeed the marriage
ceremony) is considered to be an honour. Since there are two honours
going here, it si not uncommon for the bridegroom's family and the
bride's family to honour one witness each.

When it comes to signing the official marriage register, the rules
are quite different, and are determined by the local legal
requirements. In New York City and elsewhere in the USA I guess the
Jewish ceremony is not recognized and a separate civil marriage is
required, so there is no reason to use the same witnesses.

In England, where Jewish marriage is recognized by statute, the
register is held by the Secretary for Marriages of the shul, and
records the fact of a marriage having taken place under the shul's
auspices. Thus you might expect the witnesses to the religious
ceremony to sign the register; this is indeed practised by the shul
to which I belong and where my daughters married. But other
communities use different witnesses. On my own marriage certificate
my wife's uncle - not a valid witness under Jewish law - is one of
the signatories. I believe the shul concerned (the Sunderland Beth
Hamedrash) used standard witnesses for all marriages.

So there is little that can be deduced about the relationship of
witnesses on a marriage certificate to the bride/groom. But you can
be sure (for Orthodox marriages) that the witnesses on a kethubo were
not related to the parties.

Perets Mett


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jewish Wedding-Witness Qualifications #general

Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
 

Eloise Hintersteiner wrote:

Some marriage certificates for my family (New York City circa 1910-
1925) have witnesses with the same surname as one of the parties getting
married. I am trying to determine if the witnesses are actually related
by blood or marriage to the bride/groom.

What are the specific requirements to be a legally valid witness to a
Jewish wedding ceremony? Can it be a parent, sibling, uncle, first
cousin, brother-in-law, etc? Have the requirements been modified in the
past 100 years?
To which Michael Bernet replied:

Two witnesses are required, adult males, who are observant and keep the
Sabbath according to all Orthodox requirements. In most communities it
would not be an immediate relative, father, brother, but it could be a
cousin, uncle or brother-in-law. The groom (and the bride--and just about
anyone else, I guess) can sign the ketuba if they wish--but they are not
in a position to be legal witnesses. The witnesses attest to the fact
that the groom betrothed the bride, and that he promised to fulfill the
obligations written in the ketuba.
The latter, but not the former. The kethuba is usually signed before
the commencement of the kidushin -marriage ceremony- so the witnesses
theret0 cannot attest to the betrothal (which has not yet taken
place). The witnesses signed on the kethuba attest that they have
seen the bridegroom commit himself contractually to the obligations
therein. They must be adult observant Jewish males who are not
related to each other or to either of the parties to the marriage.
Uncles, cousins and brothers-in-law are all unsuitable ("posul") to
act. Many communities do not even allow second cousins.

Someone else wrote:

The bride and groom would each have a witness.
While this may sound strange, it is practised in some communities.
Serving as a witness to the kesubo, (or indeed the marriage
ceremony) is considered to be an honour. Since there are two honours
going here, it si not uncommon for the bridegroom's family and the
bride's family to honour one witness each.

When it comes to signing the official marriage register, the rules
are quite different, and are determined by the local legal
requirements. In New York City and elsewhere in the USA I guess the
Jewish ceremony is not recognized and a separate civil marriage is
required, so there is no reason to use the same witnesses.

In England, where Jewish marriage is recognized by statute, the
register is held by the Secretary for Marriages of the shul, and
records the fact of a marriage having taken place under the shul's
auspices. Thus you might expect the witnesses to the religious
ceremony to sign the register; this is indeed practised by the shul
to which I belong and where my daughters married. But other
communities use different witnesses. On my own marriage certificate
my wife's uncle - not a valid witness under Jewish law - is one of
the signatories. I believe the shul concerned (the Sunderland Beth
Hamedrash) used standard witnesses for all marriages.

So there is little that can be deduced about the relationship of
witnesses on a marriage certificate to the bride/groom. But you can
be sure (for Orthodox marriages) that the witnesses on a kethubo were
not related to the parties.

Perets Mett


Young Marriage #general

Ruth Saul <ruthie@...>
 

JewishGen Discussion Group,
In my grandparent's story the young couple lived in the home of the
parents and their keep there was called a "kest", also applied to
yeshiva buckers who were housed or fed as guests at someone's home.
It could be for a short time or for years if the generosity of the
giver was great.
Ruth Saul
Ruth Saul
ruthie@fyi.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Young Marriage #general

Ruth Saul <ruthie@...>
 

JewishGen Discussion Group,
In my grandparent's story the young couple lived in the home of the
parents and their keep there was called a "kest", also applied to
yeshiva buckers who were housed or fed as guests at someone's home.
It could be for a short time or for years if the generosity of the
giver was great.
Ruth Saul
Ruth Saul
ruthie@fyi.net