Date   

Confused about Revision Lists #lithuania

Morton Cohen <cohenme@...>
 

On Jan. 12 David Hoffman posted Vitalija Gircyte's "explanation of the
scope and purpose of Revision Lists" - which indicated that these were
only peasants and town dwellers; "town dwellers" ("meshchane") is a certain
legal status, estate, that does not mean all town residents.

She noted Merchants belonging to guilds, people with any kind of higher
education - doctors, lawyers, pharmacists or even their assistants, even
various clerks did not belong to the class of "town dwellers"

Her explanation seems to diminish the the description of Revision Lists in
the FAQ which implies that Revision Lists are comprehensive documents. I
am now puzzled about how to proceed. with regard to my pggf who was reputed
to be a rabbi in his shtetl.

Would a rabbi be considered part of the "educated group" omitted >from a
Revison List ?

Were rabbis and other religious officials such as ritual slaughters exempt
from the draft and hence omitted?
Were there many (if any) Jews who were not classed as town dwellers and
therefore omitted >from the Revision Lists?

Morton Cohen
Rochester NY


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Confused about Revision Lists #lithuania

Morton Cohen <cohenme@...>
 

On Jan. 12 David Hoffman posted Vitalija Gircyte's "explanation of the
scope and purpose of Revision Lists" - which indicated that these were
only peasants and town dwellers; "town dwellers" ("meshchane") is a certain
legal status, estate, that does not mean all town residents.

She noted Merchants belonging to guilds, people with any kind of higher
education - doctors, lawyers, pharmacists or even their assistants, even
various clerks did not belong to the class of "town dwellers"

Her explanation seems to diminish the the description of Revision Lists in
the FAQ which implies that Revision Lists are comprehensive documents. I
am now puzzled about how to proceed. with regard to my pggf who was reputed
to be a rabbi in his shtetl.

Would a rabbi be considered part of the "educated group" omitted >from a
Revison List ?

Were rabbis and other religious officials such as ritual slaughters exempt
from the draft and hence omitted?
Were there many (if any) Jews who were not classed as town dwellers and
therefore omitted >from the Revision Lists?

Morton Cohen
Rochester NY


Re: Rothenberg family #ukraine

theentins <theentins@...>
 

Original Message

Subject: ROTHENBERG family (and variant spellings)
From: MikePnina Rothenberg <mikeroth@svpal.org>

Hi,

I'm trying to locate information about a branch of my ROTHENBERG family
that lived in England. My grandfather, Meyer ROTHENBERG, went from
Ukraine to London around 1900, where his paternal uncle, Berril
ROTHENBERG, lived. Berril had a son Arthur and four daughters,
including one, Eva, who married a Harry ENGLANDER. Another daughter
supposedly married another ENGLANDER. My grandfather married my
grandmother, Amelia (Millie) RINKOWSKY in London, had four sons there
and came to the U.S in 1908. They then had their last child, Rose.

It is possible that some, or all, of the English branch emigrated.

My ROTHENBERG family is Levi.

My grandfather was born in Zhitomir, and his family later moved to
Odessa. His father's name was Elias Benjamin and he preceded my
grandfather to the U.S. My grandfather had a sister ROSE (married to
Abe KOLODENKO). They also emigrated to the U.S. My grandfather also
had a brother (name unkown) who apparently remained in Russia..

Any information or suggestions you can provide about the ROTHENBERG
family >from England would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Mike Rothenberg

mikeroth@svpal.org


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Rothenberg family #ukraine

theentins <theentins@...>
 

Original Message

Subject: ROTHENBERG family (and variant spellings)
From: MikePnina Rothenberg <mikeroth@svpal.org>

Hi,

I'm trying to locate information about a branch of my ROTHENBERG family
that lived in England. My grandfather, Meyer ROTHENBERG, went from
Ukraine to London around 1900, where his paternal uncle, Berril
ROTHENBERG, lived. Berril had a son Arthur and four daughters,
including one, Eva, who married a Harry ENGLANDER. Another daughter
supposedly married another ENGLANDER. My grandfather married my
grandmother, Amelia (Millie) RINKOWSKY in London, had four sons there
and came to the U.S in 1908. They then had their last child, Rose.

It is possible that some, or all, of the English branch emigrated.

My ROTHENBERG family is Levi.

My grandfather was born in Zhitomir, and his family later moved to
Odessa. His father's name was Elias Benjamin and he preceded my
grandfather to the U.S. My grandfather had a sister ROSE (married to
Abe KOLODENKO). They also emigrated to the U.S. My grandfather also
had a brother (name unkown) who apparently remained in Russia..

Any information or suggestions you can provide about the ROTHENBERG
family >from England would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Mike Rothenberg

mikeroth@svpal.org


Re: Grand Trunk Railroad #general

sallybru@...
 

If the border crossing between the US and Canada was like it is now, they
probably had agents aboard the train to check the immigrants but there may
have been no check. Remember that during the very early times, there were
no passports and visas, there were often no papers-and if they had papers
they were in Russian or something that most Americans couldn't read. It
may have also been that the train stopped at a border town for this
process.

Passage was very easy between the US and Canada. I would imagine that
before quotas and such, the main check would be the check entering Canada;
crossing >from Canada to the US did not entail the screening and medical
checks that Ellis Island had. Remember also, that Ellis Island was for
steerage passengers only. If you could afford something a little better,
you got off the boat right at the Port, not at Ellis Island-there were no
checks because it was assumed that you could take care of yourself.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Looking for very recent New Jersey Obituary #general

LindaJim Morzillo <jmorzil1@...>
 

If anyone living in New Jersey can look in the local newspapers for me I
would appreciate your help. I am looking for an obituary for Bess KAUFMAN
who passed away on Saturday, February 24, 2001. The lady lived in Monroe
Township (Jamesburg), and I have not been able to find an obituary online.
If an obituary was submitted, it would have appeared in a newspaper on
Sunday (2/25/2001) or perhaps Monday (2/26).

Thank you in advance for your help.

Linda Morzillo

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


WINOGRAD, SOBOTA, SOBOR, WAJNTROB all from Wegrow #general

Sue Kahana <sue@...>
 

I've gotten more information about the above family names, WINOGRAD,
SOBOTA, SOBOR and WAYNTROB. They all came >from Wegrow, at least since
1851, which is the earliest marrage record I have.

If anyone has any information on any of the above families, one of
which became WEINTRAUB in the US, I'l happily share data.

The WINOGRADs should be in Argentina, by family legend.

Thanks all.

Sue Kahana, Jerusalem, Israel


Used Book Thanks; NYC passenger lists #general

renee1056@...
 

I wish to thank everyone that answered my posting for used books.
I am amazed at what a wonderful group that is so willing to offer
their help.
For my next challenge is someone to find passenger list for 1905 & 6 and
naturalization papers in NYC.
Shalom
Renee Marcus
researching ZALMANOV, FRAYERMAN, FREIERMAN, FREIMAN, Moliva Belarus

MODERATOR NOTE: Commercial reference deleted. Please reply privately
regarding used book sites.


Re: The Dreifuessler Rite #general

sallybru@...
 

Concerning descent >from Rashi, Avotaynu had a series of articles several
years ago giving different versions of the descent >from Rashi to anyone
halfway recent. There were, I believe, 15 or 20 versions which varied as
to someone being the daughter or the granddaughter or the sister of a
particular person in the line. In the discussion, there were found to be
large gaps and sometimes people who lived in different centuries than were
possible in the particular lines.The bottom line was that no one could
prove that any of the lines was true. You may have a tradition of descent
from Rashi, but that would be what it is, a tradition.
As a genealogist and a geneticist, I can say that it is very probable that
either all or none of Ashkenazi Jewry is descended >from Rashi-there are
that many generations. It has been said that if we go back to the 17th
century we are all related (the Family Tree of the Jewish People makes a
lot of connections). Given the time back to Rashi, it is likely that
either Rashi's line died out, or that some one or probably more of your
(anybody's) many great grandparents then was Rashi. Now, prove it-good
luck.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Jennie or Sarah YUGEND, (JUGEND) #general

Miriam Mason <ashrink@...>
 

I am seeking information on any relatives of Jennie or Sarah Yugend.
(Jugend), my mother's sisters.
Both were born in New York City.
They were daughters of Minnie Kanter Yugend and Samuel Yugend.
The family moved to Saint Paul Minnesota.
There is rumor that either Sarah or Jennie moved to Ohio, was married there
and had children.
Unfortunately I have no married names.

Please e-mail me privately.
Thank you for any help!!!

Miriam Mason
ashrink@optonline.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:Grand Trunk Railroad #general

sallybru@...
 

If the border crossing between the US and Canada was like it is now, they
probably had agents aboard the train to check the immigrants but there may
have been no check. Remember that during the very early times, there were
no passports and visas, there were often no papers-and if they had papers
they were in Russian or something that most Americans couldn't read. It
may have also been that the train stopped at a border town for this
process.

Passage was very easy between the US and Canada. I would imagine that
before quotas and such, the main check would be the check entering Canada;
crossing >from Canada to the US did not entail the screening and medical
checks that Ellis Island had. Remember also, that Ellis Island was for
steerage passengers only. If you could afford something a little better,
you got off the boat right at the Port, not at Ellis Island-there were no
checks because it was assumed that you could take care of yourself.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for very recent New Jersey Obituary #general

LindaJim Morzillo <jmorzil1@...>
 

If anyone living in New Jersey can look in the local newspapers for me I
would appreciate your help. I am looking for an obituary for Bess KAUFMAN
who passed away on Saturday, February 24, 2001. The lady lived in Monroe
Township (Jamesburg), and I have not been able to find an obituary online.
If an obituary was submitted, it would have appeared in a newspaper on
Sunday (2/25/2001) or perhaps Monday (2/26).

Thank you in advance for your help.

Linda Morzillo

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WINOGRAD, SOBOTA, SOBOR, WAJNTROB all from Wegrow #general

Sue Kahana <sue@...>
 

I've gotten more information about the above family names, WINOGRAD,
SOBOTA, SOBOR and WAYNTROB. They all came >from Wegrow, at least since
1851, which is the earliest marrage record I have.

If anyone has any information on any of the above families, one of
which became WEINTRAUB in the US, I'l happily share data.

The WINOGRADs should be in Argentina, by family legend.

Thanks all.

Sue Kahana, Jerusalem, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Used Book Thanks; NYC passenger lists #general

renee1056@...
 

I wish to thank everyone that answered my posting for used books.
I am amazed at what a wonderful group that is so willing to offer
their help.
For my next challenge is someone to find passenger list for 1905 & 6 and
naturalization papers in NYC.
Shalom
Renee Marcus
researching ZALMANOV, FRAYERMAN, FREIERMAN, FREIMAN, Moliva Belarus

MODERATOR NOTE: Commercial reference deleted. Please reply privately
regarding used book sites.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The Dreifuessler Rite #general

sallybru@...
 

Concerning descent >from Rashi, Avotaynu had a series of articles several
years ago giving different versions of the descent >from Rashi to anyone
halfway recent. There were, I believe, 15 or 20 versions which varied as
to someone being the daughter or the granddaughter or the sister of a
particular person in the line. In the discussion, there were found to be
large gaps and sometimes people who lived in different centuries than were
possible in the particular lines.The bottom line was that no one could
prove that any of the lines was true. You may have a tradition of descent
from Rashi, but that would be what it is, a tradition.
As a genealogist and a geneticist, I can say that it is very probable that
either all or none of Ashkenazi Jewry is descended >from Rashi-there are
that many generations. It has been said that if we go back to the 17th
century we are all related (the Family Tree of the Jewish People makes a
lot of connections). Given the time back to Rashi, it is likely that
either Rashi's line died out, or that some one or probably more of your
(anybody's) many great grandparents then was Rashi. Now, prove it-good
luck.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jennie or Sarah YUGEND, (JUGEND) #general

Miriam Mason <ashrink@...>
 

I am seeking information on any relatives of Jennie or Sarah Yugend.
(Jugend), my mother's sisters.
Both were born in New York City.
They were daughters of Minnie Kanter Yugend and Samuel Yugend.
The family moved to Saint Paul Minnesota.
There is rumor that either Sarah or Jennie moved to Ohio, was married there
and had children.
Unfortunately I have no married names.

Please e-mail me privately.
Thank you for any help!!!

Miriam Mason
ashrink@optonline.net


Re: Holdings of Jewish-Polish LDS films in London #general

Hadassah Lipsius <kesher@...>
 

Kirsten asked about the holdings of Jewish-Polish LDS films in London

In preparation for a trip to London in July for the conference I intend
to do some research in archives in London. To that end I would like to
know the holdings of the Polish-Jewish films in the LDS FH Centers in
London. When I order films in this country (Denmark) they take 6-8 months
to get here so if I could look at "my" films of interest in London it
would greatly speed my research. Where can I get that information?

I am not a member of the London Conference Committee *but I can answer
your question as JRI-Poland Transliteration Coordinator. In preparation
for the London Jewish Genealogy Conference, JRI-Poland volunteer (and
England resident) Sue Fifer, compiled a list for us. That information can
be found on our website, http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl
along with what films are at the Los Angeles FHC, New York FHC and Dorot
in Israel.

On the homepage select, LDS (Mormon) microfilms.


Hadassah Lipsius
JRI-Poland Transliteration Coordinator
Kew Gardens Hills, NY
kesher@lipsiusgroup.com (<---------soon to be new e-mail address)


Re: Jewish Genealogy of Arab Tribes #general

Roger Froikin <rlefraim@...>
 

- Reuben / Rawabin, Rabwan, Rubyan (southern Hijaz)
- Simeon / Samainah, Samain (Yemen, southern Palestine)
- Levi / Lu'aay (Jizan)
- Judah / Wahadin, Wahdah (central Asir)
- Dan / Duwaniya, Danaywi, Dandan (Zahran)
- Naphtali / Falatin (Birk, Jizan)
- Gad / Jadi, Judan, Jadiyah, Jadyah (Asir)
- Asher / Dhawi Shari (Asir)
- Issachar / Shuckarah (north of Mecca)
- Zebulun / Zabbalah (coastal Asir), Zubalah
- Joseph / Banu Yusef (Arabia, Yemen)
- Benjamin / Ibn Yamin (the sons of Yemen in Arabic), Yamna, Yamana

All of these above Hebrew/Arabian tribal names have dozens upon dozens of
villages whose root phonetics tie them to their respective tribes. At the
turn of this century, it was reported in many a western travellers' diary
about large Jewish tribes throughout Arabia and Yemen. It's all rather
amazing.

David Goldman
mailto:davic@POP.EROLS.COM
Similarities do not make for, necessarily, more than coincidence. Arabic
and Hebrew have lots of similarity and Jewish texts were available and
used by Muslims who borrowed Hebraic names of Biblical caharacters.

While there could be connections, the names do not necessartily indicate
that.


Re: the cost of a transatlantic cruise in 1905 #general

Elsebeth Paikin
 

At 11:44 26-02-01 -0700, Bernard I. Margolis wrote:

My source of information is a cousin who, happily, wrote a bit og an
autobiography. I quote "In 1905, we had pogroms in Akkerman, Odessa, and
Kashira and most of the Jews were trying to get out and come to this
country. Shipping companies [the German and the Swiss had, at that time,
a competition and were selling tickets on the boat for $10. 00 apiece".]

I would be very interested in hearing more about the Swiss shipping
companies... I have never heard of them before! And I am preparing a
paper on the Jewish migration, so any and all info on that -- and
other shipping companies or known routes of emigration will be
greatly appreciated.

Best regards
- and thank you in anticipation!


Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark
Coordinator & Webmaster of JewishGen Denmark SIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/denmark
http://home.worldonline.dk/~epaikin/
mailto:elsebeth@paikin.dk

Researching:
One name study: PAIKIN (worldwide - all spellings)
Latvia & Lithuania:
STOLBOW/STOLBOFF - HAMEROW/GAMEROw - SOFFER/SOFER


Dutch East Indies #general

Estelle Wolfers <Ewolfers@...>
 

Another possibility is that the family had friends or relatives among the
Sephardic population of the Dutch East Indies. In previous centuries, many
Amsterdam Jewish families traded with the Dutch East Indies, and the
Netherlands also operated a policy of paying for passage to overseas
destinations for impoverished members of the Jewish community. There is an
interesting list of these emigrants on this website:
http://www.maxpages.com/donadeli/migration .

Estelle Wolfers, Ipswich UK
researching WOLFERS, VAN MINDEN Rotterdam; LOPES SALZEDO Amsterdam; VIGEVANO
Amsterdam and Schiedam; SABEL, Vidzy in Belarus; SWIDLER, 'Russia'; HECHT,
Tarnowitz (Tarnowskie Gory) Silesia and Breslau; STEIN Konigsberg;
MENDELSOHN, GOLDSTEIN Silesia