Date   

Two Data banks #general

NormTillman@...
 

Using Family Tree Maker does anyone know how to merge two data banks? If
not with FTM has anyone done it with any other program? If so, which one?

Norman Tillman - Albany, NY

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


Re: Gorodets #general

Gene and Ellen Sucov <genellen@...>
 

Dear Ruth,
You're right there are many towns named Gorodets. Over 100 showed up
when I searched for Gorodets in Shtetlseeker some years ago. When you
realize that "Gorod" is the same as "Grad", as in Stanlingrad, etc., that
is, "town" or "city", then you can understand the proliferation of the
name.
The challenge for a genner is to select that one Gorodets which fits
his/her family. In my case, I chose the one near Brest-Litovsk in what is
now Belarus. I had to use clues >from Beider's "Dictionary of Jewish Names in
the Russian Empire" which told me in what regions my family name appeared,
as well as info >from Yad Vashem files of concentration camp prisoners.
If you think my Gorodets is your Gorodets, please go the Yizkor Book
section of the Jewishgen web site and open the entry for Gorodets, in which
I have translated portions of the Yizkor Book for that village.
Good luck in your search.
Gene Sucov, Pittsburgh JGS, searching for
SUCHOWCZYCKI, Horodetz-Bialystok-US
SHLAFMITZ, Zaremby-Koscielne-US

-- Original Message --

Dear fellow searchers,
I have someone in my family tree named Gorodetski. Originally, I thought
there must be "millions" of places with a name like that. It turns out
that this haystack is much smaller than I thought it would be.
There are, though not "millions", quite a few. Does anyone know of a town
named Gorodets that was important in Jewish history-one among the many to
be found on the jewishgen shtetl finder?
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

mailto:rhyman@ggn.net


Re: Grodno and Odessa #general

sallybru@...
 

No, Grodno was and is in Belarus while Odessa is and was in Crimea. Both
are big cities and you should have no trouble finding them on any map of the
area-but they are not near each other. Odessa is on the Black Sea, maybe
seven or eight hundred miles south south east of Grodno.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Re: birth certificate name-1906 and marriage certificates #general

Linda Altman <southernexotics@...>
 

This does raise a very interesting issue. Take the marriage certificate of
my husbands grandparents. I have both of their birth certificates, so I
know the birth dates and locations. The birth certificates also list
mother's maiden names. The marriage certificate reads as pure fiction. The
husbands name is correct, but his age, his mothers maiden name, and the
country of birth are not correct. The brides first name and age are also
incorrect. Both husband and wife were born in the US. According to the
marriage certificate the husband was born in Bessarabia/Russia!

The there is my great grandmothers mariage certificate. Her maiden name in
the US was Sarah SMITH. She maried Barnett SHAPIRO. The marriage
certificate reads her name as Sadie BALIFF and his name as Bonish SHAPIRO.

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
CYBULA/CYBULKA, MODRYKAMEN/MODRYKAMIEN, (Zambrow, Poland).
SZABAS/SHABBAS, CHILLER, (Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland).
WISHNEVETSKY or any close spelling, (Poland). LIEBERMAN, (Romania, Austria).
KRIEDBERG/KRIESBERG/KRAYSBERG/KRAYBERG,(Russia, Ukraine, anywhere).
WEINSTEIN, (Polonnoye and Odessa, Russia or Ukraine). SINGER, ALTMAN,
(anywhere).
mailto:southernexotics@mindspring.com


Re: Burials - Suicide #general

mrtfuzot <mrtfuzot@...>
 

In Israel (maybe elsewhere too) suicide victims are buried within the wall
of the cemetary. The religious explanation for this is that presumably the
person was deranged the last seconds of his life and as such, being ill, it
is not considered suicide.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Two Data banks #general

NormTillman@...
 

Using Family Tree Maker does anyone know how to merge two data banks? If
not with FTM has anyone done it with any other program? If so, which one?

Norman Tillman - Albany, NY

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Gorodets #general

Gene and Ellen Sucov <genellen@...>
 

Dear Ruth,
You're right there are many towns named Gorodets. Over 100 showed up
when I searched for Gorodets in Shtetlseeker some years ago. When you
realize that "Gorod" is the same as "Grad", as in Stanlingrad, etc., that
is, "town" or "city", then you can understand the proliferation of the
name.
The challenge for a genner is to select that one Gorodets which fits
his/her family. In my case, I chose the one near Brest-Litovsk in what is
now Belarus. I had to use clues >from Beider's "Dictionary of Jewish Names in
the Russian Empire" which told me in what regions my family name appeared,
as well as info >from Yad Vashem files of concentration camp prisoners.
If you think my Gorodets is your Gorodets, please go the Yizkor Book
section of the Jewishgen web site and open the entry for Gorodets, in which
I have translated portions of the Yizkor Book for that village.
Good luck in your search.
Gene Sucov, Pittsburgh JGS, searching for
SUCHOWCZYCKI, Horodetz-Bialystok-US
SHLAFMITZ, Zaremby-Koscielne-US

-- Original Message --

Dear fellow searchers,
I have someone in my family tree named Gorodetski. Originally, I thought
there must be "millions" of places with a name like that. It turns out
that this haystack is much smaller than I thought it would be.
There are, though not "millions", quite a few. Does anyone know of a town
named Gorodets that was important in Jewish history-one among the many to
be found on the jewishgen shtetl finder?
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

mailto:rhyman@ggn.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Grodno and Odessa #general

sallybru@...
 

No, Grodno was and is in Belarus while Odessa is and was in Crimea. Both
are big cities and you should have no trouble finding them on any map of the
area-but they are not near each other. Odessa is on the Black Sea, maybe
seven or eight hundred miles south south east of Grodno.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: birth certificate name-1906 and marriage certificates #general

Linda Altman <southernexotics@...>
 

This does raise a very interesting issue. Take the marriage certificate of
my husbands grandparents. I have both of their birth certificates, so I
know the birth dates and locations. The birth certificates also list
mother's maiden names. The marriage certificate reads as pure fiction. The
husbands name is correct, but his age, his mothers maiden name, and the
country of birth are not correct. The brides first name and age are also
incorrect. Both husband and wife were born in the US. According to the
marriage certificate the husband was born in Bessarabia/Russia!

The there is my great grandmothers mariage certificate. Her maiden name in
the US was Sarah SMITH. She maried Barnett SHAPIRO. The marriage
certificate reads her name as Sadie BALIFF and his name as Bonish SHAPIRO.

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
CYBULA/CYBULKA, MODRYKAMEN/MODRYKAMIEN, (Zambrow, Poland).
SZABAS/SHABBAS, CHILLER, (Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland).
WISHNEVETSKY or any close spelling, (Poland). LIEBERMAN, (Romania, Austria).
KRIEDBERG/KRIESBERG/KRAYSBERG/KRAYBERG,(Russia, Ukraine, anywhere).
WEINSTEIN, (Polonnoye and Odessa, Russia or Ukraine). SINGER, ALTMAN,
(anywhere).
mailto:southernexotics@mindspring.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Burials - Suicide #general

mrtfuzot <mrtfuzot@...>
 

In Israel (maybe elsewhere too) suicide victims are buried within the wall
of the cemetary. The religious explanation for this is that presumably the
person was deranged the last seconds of his life and as such, being ill, it
is not considered suicide.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat


Re: California Birth records--living people included #general

Dick Plotz
 

Paul Wolf wrote regarding the use of mother's maiden name by financial
institutions as an identifier:

I use a code name for such records, not my mother's actual maiden name.
Whenever I am asked for my mother's maiden name as an identifier, I take the
opportunity to (gently) lecture the hapless functionary about the ready
availability of this information in public sources. It has been news to the
functionary every time. Many other "private" pieces of information could be
used for the same purpose (e.g., name of a pet), and some institutions give
a choice of such identifiers. I take these interactions as opportunities to
raise the consciousness of these clueless people in the hopes that
eventually the word will reach those who set the policies and nobody will
have to fear the public revelation of their mother's maiden name. It would
make life much easier for genealogists.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA


Greatest number of children #general

Hnestor@...
 

On this point what is the greatest number of children
having one father known to the list ?
Aubrey Jacobus >>

My GG Grandfather, Lemle Dinkelspiel, had 27 children. His first wife,
Minette Herzog, had 21 children. When she died at the age of 49 he emigrated
from Germany to the USA, brought over and married her widowed sister, Dina,
and they had 6 more children plus one stillborn. Two of Lemle's sons are my
G Grandfathers since, of course, one of their sons married his cousin, the
daughter of the other, and they became my grandparents.

Helen Nestor
Berkeley, CA
hnestor@aol.com


Name differences in Census and on birth certificate: Is Anna Deborah = Anita ? #general

BarbKrauss@...
 

In a message dated 3/25/01 Subject: birth certificate name - 1906
From: "Arlene" <aparnes@earthlink.net>
<< I've received a birth certificate for my great-aunt (I think).
Everything on it is correct as far as family info is concerned except for
the birth name of the child. The birth date is one her sister had given me
years ago. It shows Anna Deborah. On the 1900 census 4 yrs later the child
is called Anita. >>

Arlene,
Please remember that people have changed their names and sometimes the
spelling of their names all the time, both formally and informally. My
great-aunt Ada was called Adele in 1 census, her sister, Betty was called
Isabelle, and a third sister was called Jeanette instead of Jenny.
We did the same in my generation and so does my daughter's generation.
I hope that this child is family.
Barbara Krauss, Portage MI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: California Birth records--living people included #general

Dick Plotz
 

Paul Wolf wrote regarding the use of mother's maiden name by financial
institutions as an identifier:

I use a code name for such records, not my mother's actual maiden name.
Whenever I am asked for my mother's maiden name as an identifier, I take the
opportunity to (gently) lecture the hapless functionary about the ready
availability of this information in public sources. It has been news to the
functionary every time. Many other "private" pieces of information could be
used for the same purpose (e.g., name of a pet), and some institutions give
a choice of such identifiers. I take these interactions as opportunities to
raise the consciousness of these clueless people in the hopes that
eventually the word will reach those who set the policies and nobody will
have to fear the public revelation of their mother's maiden name. It would
make life much easier for genealogists.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Greatest number of children #general

Hnestor@...
 

On this point what is the greatest number of children
having one father known to the list ?
Aubrey Jacobus >>

My GG Grandfather, Lemle Dinkelspiel, had 27 children. His first wife,
Minette Herzog, had 21 children. When she died at the age of 49 he emigrated
from Germany to the USA, brought over and married her widowed sister, Dina,
and they had 6 more children plus one stillborn. Two of Lemle's sons are my
G Grandfathers since, of course, one of their sons married his cousin, the
daughter of the other, and they became my grandparents.

Helen Nestor
Berkeley, CA
hnestor@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Name differences in Census and on birth certificate: Is Anna Deborah = Anita ? #general

BarbKrauss@...
 

In a message dated 3/25/01 Subject: birth certificate name - 1906
From: "Arlene" <aparnes@earthlink.net>
<< I've received a birth certificate for my great-aunt (I think).
Everything on it is correct as far as family info is concerned except for
the birth name of the child. The birth date is one her sister had given me
years ago. It shows Anna Deborah. On the 1900 census 4 yrs later the child
is called Anita. >>

Arlene,
Please remember that people have changed their names and sometimes the
spelling of their names all the time, both formally and informally. My
great-aunt Ada was called Adele in 1 census, her sister, Betty was called
Isabelle, and a third sister was called Jeanette instead of Jenny.
We did the same in my generation and so does my daughter's generation.
I hope that this child is family.
Barbara Krauss, Portage MI


Birth certificate change after adoption #general

Marion Werle <werle@...>
 

Many thanks to everybody who responded privately to my query about birth
certificate changes after an adoption by a step-parent, after the natural
parent has died. Apparently it is standard practice, as part of the
adoption process, for the state vital records agency to alter the birth
certificate and replace the name of the deceased parent with the
step-parent. It also happens when an adoption takes place after a divorce
(the adoption requires the consent of the other living parent, of course).
I have had responses >from people >from several different states in the U.S.
Apparently the states do not differentiate between an anonymous infant
adoption (although these days, many of these are not anonymous) and an
adoption where the child is older, and one parent has died, and did not
give the child up for adoption.

The point is, that if we as genealogists don't know that there was an
adoption, then we would think the information on the birth certificate was
accurate. The moral of the story is: genealogist beware! Even information
on a birth certificate is now suspect.
Marion Werle <werle@pacificnet.net>

Searching: MOLCHADSKY (Kossovo, Bereza and Pruzhany, Belarus); RATNER
(Kossovo, Belarus); SKUTELSKI, GETZ (Riebene, Latvia); MINSK (Daugavpils,
Latvia); SKUDER/SCUDER, COHEN (Skuodas and Anyksciai, Lith.); KRAWITZ
(Mosedis, Lith.);
MARCUS (Anyksciai and Ukmerge, Lith.); PANOVSKY/PANOFF (Ukmerge and
Anyksciai, Lith.)


adoption #general

Stephanie Weiner <laguna@...>
 

Dear Marion,

Believe it! In every state in the union, birth certificates are altered
when a person is adopted. An adoption is an adoption is an adoption --
whether the birth mother "agreed" to the adoption or otherwise. And
frankly, I also feel that it dishonors the memory of the birth mother,
whether she "agreed" or not -- and it is crazy making for the adopted
person. I wonder why, though, you think it is any different whether or
not the mother agrees to the adoption. I can assure you that the adopted
person, if a minor or an infant, more than likely has not agreed to the
adoption. In adoption, the laws of this country remove a person's
identity >from its natural tree and attempt to "graft" it onto another
tree without so much as a by-your-leave.

Lest anyone misunderstand, I am not against adoption per se, only
against the way it is often practiced in this country. Secrets and lies
do not benefit anyone and, unfortunately, occur more often than we'd
like to think. Black market babies and babies imported >from other
countries have very little likelihood of ever learning their original
background or heritage.

And what does all this have to do with genealogy, you may ask. It has
much to do with how one charts an adopted person on a genealogical tree.
As you point out, Marion, it can lead to inaccuracies via omission if
not acknowledged in some fashion.

Stephanie Weiner, adopted person
Mt. Laguna, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: This discussion is veering away >from genealogy. Please
conduct discussion of non-genealogical aspects of adoption off-list.


Adoption in California #general

Chuck Weinstein <cweinstein@...>
 

Under California law, as is/was the case in most states, adoptions are a
sealed record. They can only be unsealed with a court order. This
applies to all adoptions prior to the late '70's, when the laws were
changed. Thus, birth records are altered and records that relate to
adoptees are not generally available in the county, but must be ordered
from Sacramento. All of the parental information on the record pertains
to the adopted parents, not the birth parents. Since the change in
laws, birth records of those adopted at birth reflect the adopted
parents, but records of those adopted somewhat later are not altered
and, in most cases, the original can be obtained >from the county, with
an altered record available >from Sacramento. I do not have the address
in Sacramento to order these records, but it is available in every
county's public health dept. Many states maintain these rules even
today.

Chuck Weinstein in San Mateo, CA
cweinstein@jewishgen.org


Novogrudok in Minsk Gubernia #general

Jim Bennett <bennett@...>
 

Bernie Hirsch queried whether Novogrudok [now in W. Belarus]
was part of Grodno, Vilna or Minsk Gubernia in Czarist times
during the 19th century.

It was a district center in Minsk Gubernia, in the North-West portion
of the Gubernia, not far >from the Southern area of Lithuania. All the
Revision Lists >from 1795 onwards [available on microfilm through the
Mormon Family History Libraries] classify Novogrudok as part of Minsk.

Now I have a question: Does anyone know of the existance of
19th and early 20th century metrical records of the Jews of
Novogrudok --at the Belarus Archives in Minsk, or anywhere, and
is any microfilming being done?

Jim Bennett
Haifa, Israel
Seeking: CZERTOK, BORISHANSKI, ZALKIND and SZECW from
Novogrudok.