Date   

Re: safrica digest: October 26, 2009 #southafrica

Alice Gutenkauf <agutenkauf@...>
 

I am searching for any information on a probable Rifkind family from
Rogochev, Belarus. My Grandfather, Phillip Rifkind, started to
emigrate to South Africa about 1900 but the ship was diverted and came
to the United States. Actually his entry form indicates the ship,
Karlsruhe, supposedly docked in Halifax, Canada, but the dates don't
gibe, and he took the train >from there. I can't find any further
information about how he arrived in Chicago. Any information would be
greatly appreciated.

Alice Rifkind Gutenkauf
researching: Rifkind >from Rogachev, Belarus


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: safrica digest: October 26, 2009 #southafrica

Alice Gutenkauf <agutenkauf@...>
 

I am searching for any information on a probable Rifkind family from
Rogochev, Belarus. My Grandfather, Phillip Rifkind, started to
emigrate to South Africa about 1900 but the ship was diverted and came
to the United States. Actually his entry form indicates the ship,
Karlsruhe, supposedly docked in Halifax, Canada, but the dates don't
gibe, and he took the train >from there. I can't find any further
information about how he arrived in Chicago. Any information would be
greatly appreciated.

Alice Rifkind Gutenkauf
researching: Rifkind >from Rogachev, Belarus


Re: Chazan - Gardens Synagogue Cape Town #southafrica

MIKE <mikegetz005@...>
 

Cantor Boris Rome was the Chazzan - not sure that he taught Barmitzvah. Rev
S. Kassel went >from Woodstock, where he was Reverend and School principal, to
Gardens, probably as Chazan Sheni, Baal Kria etc. It is possible that he
taught Barmitvah during the time you mention.

Mike Getz

-----Original Message-----
From: balden [mailto:balden@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 2:57 PM
To: South Africa SIG
Subject: [safrica] Chazan - Gardens Synagogue Cape Town

Can anyone possibly remember the name of the Chazan who taught Barmitzvah
boys their Portion in or about 1947/48, at the Gardens Shul, Cape Town?

Thanks in advance.

Beryl Baleson
balden@...


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica RE: Chazan - Gardens Synagogue Cape Town #southafrica

MIKE <mikegetz005@...>
 

Cantor Boris Rome was the Chazzan - not sure that he taught Barmitzvah. Rev
S. Kassel went >from Woodstock, where he was Reverend and School principal, to
Gardens, probably as Chazan Sheni, Baal Kria etc. It is possible that he
taught Barmitvah during the time you mention.

Mike Getz

-----Original Message-----
From: balden [mailto:balden@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 2:57 PM
To: South Africa SIG
Subject: [safrica] Chazan - Gardens Synagogue Cape Town

Can anyone possibly remember the name of the Chazan who taught Barmitzvah
boys their Portion in or about 1947/48, at the Gardens Shul, Cape Town?

Thanks in advance.

Beryl Baleson
balden@...


National Archives Cape Town #southafrica

Saul Issroff <saul65@...>
 

Some may be aware that the Roeland Street archives in Cape Town are
the only ones in South Africa restricting camera use. There is a site
where one can vote online for/against use of cameras in these Archives

http://www.archivalplatform.org/index.php

"The Archival Platform is a networking, advocacy and research
initiative. We use the word 'archive' to refer not only to records or
books in archives and libraries, but also to memory, cultural practice
and places that tell the stories of the past. The Archival Platform's
aim is to facilitate dialogue and information sharing between
professionals, academics and government employees in the heritage and
archive sector.

"Three years >from now, the Archival Platform will have helped
consolidate public ownership of South Africa's historical archive -
not only physical records of the country's history, but also the
memory, cultural practices and places that tell the story of the past
- by raising its public profile and status, promoting effective
management of it and improving access to it. ..."

The site appears to have a lot of useful information regarding SA archives.

Please consider voting, it takes a second and does not involve leaving
a name etc.

Saul Issroff


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica National Archives Cape Town #southafrica

Saul Issroff <saul65@...>
 

Some may be aware that the Roeland Street archives in Cape Town are
the only ones in South Africa restricting camera use. There is a site
where one can vote online for/against use of cameras in these Archives

http://www.archivalplatform.org/index.php

"The Archival Platform is a networking, advocacy and research
initiative. We use the word 'archive' to refer not only to records or
books in archives and libraries, but also to memory, cultural practice
and places that tell the stories of the past. The Archival Platform's
aim is to facilitate dialogue and information sharing between
professionals, academics and government employees in the heritage and
archive sector.

"Three years >from now, the Archival Platform will have helped
consolidate public ownership of South Africa's historical archive -
not only physical records of the country's history, but also the
memory, cultural practices and places that tell the story of the past
- by raising its public profile and status, promoting effective
management of it and improving access to it. ..."

The site appears to have a lot of useful information regarding SA archives.

Please consider voting, it takes a second and does not involve leaving
a name etc.

Saul Issroff


Dion Friedland #southafrica

Eli Goldstein <eligold@...>
 

I am trying to establish the maiden surname of Dion Friedland's mother
(firstname Ada) who was apparently was born in Bethal, (formerly Transvaal,
South Africa). Dion was the original owner of Dion's stores in South Africa.

Eli Goldstein
Johannesburg


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Dion Friedland #southafrica

Eli Goldstein <eligold@...>
 

I am trying to establish the maiden surname of Dion Friedland's mother
(firstname Ada) who was apparently was born in Bethal, (formerly Transvaal,
South Africa). Dion was the original owner of Dion's stores in South Africa.

Eli Goldstein
Johannesburg


Re: Given names and (un)corresponding Hebrew names #hungary

tom
 

keep in mind that most of the material on jewishgen relates to polish and russian jews.

my family, like many hungarian families, did not speak yiddish. so none of the assumptions about hebrew versus yiddish names would have been valid, at least for a large segment of jews in hungary. they would have had a secular name, and a jewish name (either hebrew or yiddish) which they used in shul. i use the term "jewish" rather than "hebrew", because it was a name for ritual purposes, and not necessarily hebrew. and they would have been known to their families by their secular names.

your example of yitzhaq-izsak-ignatz is linguistically correct, but just as likely to be wrong for an individual because it was not the way hungarian jews named their children. >from the few hebrew names that i know with certainty, it is almost *never* the case.

the rabbinic books of gittin (divorce), which some jewishgenners love to cite, were written post facto, in an attempt to describe all the possible names that a person might use, rather than prescriptively. their purpose was to cover legalistic loopholes which would have invalidated the divorce and made subsequent children illegitimate. but this was certainly not a "rabbinic decree" about how to name your children.

there is certainly nothing in the books of gittin linking geza to moishe yankev, or eva to soreh, and there is no apparent connection between shaye (yeshayahu) and erno, except for each individual case.

as for naming after ancestors, i'm not aware that there was any rule, either, except that ashkenazim do not name a child after a living person. often, a child would be named after a recently deceased close relative, usually, but not always, of the same gender.

it is the sefardic custom to name children after living people (just not their parents), and they do have consistent rules about the first son being named after the paternal grandfather, and the second after the maternal grandfather, the first daughter after the maternal grandmother, etc. but hungarian jews were not sefardic. and, god willing, the grandparents would have still been alive to see at least some of their grandchildren.

also, you have to be careful with the term "double hebrew name". some names are related in their meaning, such as tzvi hirsch or yehuda leib (a whole other topic, covered at length in the jewishgen archives), while others are associated by usage, such as shloime boruch or zalman shneur. some double names seem to have been made popular by famous (often hassidic) rabbis. but some are just two names, a first and second name, just the same way that some people have a middle name (and others don't). my two hebrew names are >from my grandfather and great grandfather respectively, although the combination of the two names was popular in hassidic circles.


....... tom klein, toronto

alexpmiller@... wrote:

I may have started this chain re given names and with all the
responses I've gotten I am more confused than ever.

1- There are three sets of names: Hebrew, Yiddish and
civilian(Hungarian, Slovak, etc.)

Some are fairly recognizable and correlate fairly consistently:
Itzhaq-Izsak-Ignatz(Natzi)
Hanokh-Henrich-Herman(Armin?)
Abraham-?-Adolf
Salamon-?-Sandor

Perhaps there is a glossary somewhere for all three equivalents, but
to me it isn't clear for example if Maier/Meyer is the Hebrew MEIR or
is it the Yiddish version for Markusz/Marton/Miksa, or an 'acceptable'
civilian name?

I remember seeing somewhere that in the 19th the rabbis had decrees of
what name corresponds to what, but in my family Shaye is Erno, Armin
is Aron and some named Be'la for which I cant even guess an
equivalence.

2- The custom seems to have been to name the new born after a deceased
relative--1st >from the mother's side, next to the father's side. Are
these the Hebrew names only?

So without a strict correlation of names and in the absence of a known
Hebrew name, the naming guess is fairly useless , if not misleading.

3- To further complicate this, many babies are given double Hebrew
names and I understand now that those did not necessarily belong to
one person but to any one ancestor >from both families.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Given names and (un)corresponding Hebrew names #hungary

tom
 

keep in mind that most of the material on jewishgen relates to polish and russian jews.

my family, like many hungarian families, did not speak yiddish. so none of the assumptions about hebrew versus yiddish names would have been valid, at least for a large segment of jews in hungary. they would have had a secular name, and a jewish name (either hebrew or yiddish) which they used in shul. i use the term "jewish" rather than "hebrew", because it was a name for ritual purposes, and not necessarily hebrew. and they would have been known to their families by their secular names.

your example of yitzhaq-izsak-ignatz is linguistically correct, but just as likely to be wrong for an individual because it was not the way hungarian jews named their children. >from the few hebrew names that i know with certainty, it is almost *never* the case.

the rabbinic books of gittin (divorce), which some jewishgenners love to cite, were written post facto, in an attempt to describe all the possible names that a person might use, rather than prescriptively. their purpose was to cover legalistic loopholes which would have invalidated the divorce and made subsequent children illegitimate. but this was certainly not a "rabbinic decree" about how to name your children.

there is certainly nothing in the books of gittin linking geza to moishe yankev, or eva to soreh, and there is no apparent connection between shaye (yeshayahu) and erno, except for each individual case.

as for naming after ancestors, i'm not aware that there was any rule, either, except that ashkenazim do not name a child after a living person. often, a child would be named after a recently deceased close relative, usually, but not always, of the same gender.

it is the sefardic custom to name children after living people (just not their parents), and they do have consistent rules about the first son being named after the paternal grandfather, and the second after the maternal grandfather, the first daughter after the maternal grandmother, etc. but hungarian jews were not sefardic. and, god willing, the grandparents would have still been alive to see at least some of their grandchildren.

also, you have to be careful with the term "double hebrew name". some names are related in their meaning, such as tzvi hirsch or yehuda leib (a whole other topic, covered at length in the jewishgen archives), while others are associated by usage, such as shloime boruch or zalman shneur. some double names seem to have been made popular by famous (often hassidic) rabbis. but some are just two names, a first and second name, just the same way that some people have a middle name (and others don't). my two hebrew names are >from my grandfather and great grandfather respectively, although the combination of the two names was popular in hassidic circles.


....... tom klein, toronto

alexpmiller@... wrote:

I may have started this chain re given names and with all the
responses I've gotten I am more confused than ever.

1- There are three sets of names: Hebrew, Yiddish and
civilian(Hungarian, Slovak, etc.)

Some are fairly recognizable and correlate fairly consistently:
Itzhaq-Izsak-Ignatz(Natzi)
Hanokh-Henrich-Herman(Armin?)
Abraham-?-Adolf
Salamon-?-Sandor

Perhaps there is a glossary somewhere for all three equivalents, but
to me it isn't clear for example if Maier/Meyer is the Hebrew MEIR or
is it the Yiddish version for Markusz/Marton/Miksa, or an 'acceptable'
civilian name?

I remember seeing somewhere that in the 19th the rabbis had decrees of
what name corresponds to what, but in my family Shaye is Erno, Armin
is Aron and some named Be'la for which I cant even guess an
equivalence.

2- The custom seems to have been to name the new born after a deceased
relative--1st >from the mother's side, next to the father's side. Are
these the Hebrew names only?

So without a strict correlation of names and in the absence of a known
Hebrew name, the naming guess is fairly useless , if not misleading.

3- To further complicate this, many babies are given double Hebrew
names and I understand now that those did not necessarily belong to
one person but to any one ancestor >from both families.


Re: Riga (Germany as country of origin) #general

A. E. Jordan
 

In a message dated 10/27/2009 12:45:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
erbush@... writes:
The interesting thing is,
both of her parents and her older siblings were born in Plunge,
Lithuania, where the REST family had reportedly lived since the mid
1600s or early 1700s.


I don't think it is entirely uncommon to find Kurlanders of German
background coming >from Lithuania. Has anyone else found traces of their roots
coming via Lithuania? One of my branches in Kurland comes via Lithuania while
the others I cane get back into the 1700s in Pilten or Kurland before the
trail stops.

Has anyone worked on the history to see if the German origins got into
Lithuania and why/when some of them migrated north into Kurland? I assume
maybe the Kurlanders were a bit more tolerant at some point of the German
Jews? My branch went >from Lithuania to the Talsen area in the mid-1800s.

Thanks

Allan Jordan


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Riga (Germany as country of origin) #latvia

A. E. Jordan
 

In a message dated 10/27/2009 12:45:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
erbush@... writes:
The interesting thing is,
both of her parents and her older siblings were born in Plunge,
Lithuania, where the REST family had reportedly lived since the mid
1600s or early 1700s.


I don't think it is entirely uncommon to find Kurlanders of German
background coming >from Lithuania. Has anyone else found traces of their roots
coming via Lithuania? One of my branches in Kurland comes via Lithuania while
the others I cane get back into the 1700s in Pilten or Kurland before the
trail stops.

Has anyone worked on the history to see if the German origins got into
Lithuania and why/when some of them migrated north into Kurland? I assume
maybe the Kurlanders were a bit more tolerant at some point of the German
Jews? My branch went >from Lithuania to the Talsen area in the mid-1800s.

Thanks

Allan Jordan


US Senate Committee to Vote On US Archivist Nominee #general

Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
 

The US Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has scheduled a
Business Meeting for Wednesday, October 28th at 10 AM. They have scheduled a vote
on David Ferriero's nomination at US Archivist at that meeting. Once voted out of
Committee, the nomination has to be voted on by the full Senate. That will likely
happen by unanimous consent at the conclusion of Senate business one evening. The
Committee staff hopes to get full Senate action sometime this week, although it
could slip until next week.

Mr. Ferriero currently serves as the Andrew W. Mellon Director of the New York
Public Libraries Previously he was the Rita DiGiallonardo Holloway University
Librarian and Vice Provost for Library Affairs at Duke University.

Jan Meisels Allen
Director-at-large, IAJGS
and Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen US Senate Committee to Vote On US Archivist Nominee #general

Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
 

The US Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has scheduled a
Business Meeting for Wednesday, October 28th at 10 AM. They have scheduled a vote
on David Ferriero's nomination at US Archivist at that meeting. Once voted out of
Committee, the nomination has to be voted on by the full Senate. That will likely
happen by unanimous consent at the conclusion of Senate business one evening. The
Committee staff hopes to get full Senate action sometime this week, although it
could slip until next week.

Mr. Ferriero currently serves as the Andrew W. Mellon Director of the New York
Public Libraries Previously he was the Rita DiGiallonardo Holloway University
Librarian and Vice Provost for Library Affairs at Duke University.

Jan Meisels Allen
Director-at-large, IAJGS
and Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Revisiting Shlioma/Zalman #general

Eva Blanket
 

Dear Evan,

My grandfather born in the Carpathian-Rusyn region in the time when this was a part
of The Austro-Hungarian Empire, was known as 'Shloime' in Yiddish. His Hebrew name
was 'Solomon'. So my understanding is that 'Shloime/Shlioma' is the Yiddish for the
name'Solomon/Soloman'. In researching in this area Ifound that this pattern seemed
to prevail. Zalman seemed to be a different name.

There is also the (different) name of 'Saloman'. Perhaps this is the equivalent of
Zalman'?

Best wishes,
Eva Blanket
AUSTRALIA

From: Evan Wolfson <ewolfson@...>
There was a good bit of discussion in the past about Shlioma being the equivalent
of Zalman...
MODERATOR NOTE: Names and their equivalents and derivation have been discussed at
length many times in this forum. Please, before adding your thoughts to this
discussion, check out Warren Blatt's presentation on given names at
http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/GivenNames/ and alos check out the JewishGen
Discussion Group archives:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Revisiting Shlioma/Zalman #general

Eva Blanket
 

Dear Evan,

My grandfather born in the Carpathian-Rusyn region in the time when this was a part
of The Austro-Hungarian Empire, was known as 'Shloime' in Yiddish. His Hebrew name
was 'Solomon'. So my understanding is that 'Shloime/Shlioma' is the Yiddish for the
name'Solomon/Soloman'. In researching in this area Ifound that this pattern seemed
to prevail. Zalman seemed to be a different name.

There is also the (different) name of 'Saloman'. Perhaps this is the equivalent of
Zalman'?

Best wishes,
Eva Blanket
AUSTRALIA

From: Evan Wolfson <ewolfson@...>
There was a good bit of discussion in the past about Shlioma being the equivalent
of Zalman...
MODERATOR NOTE: Names and their equivalents and derivation have been discussed at
length many times in this forum. Please, before adding your thoughts to this
discussion, check out Warren Blatt's presentation on given names at
http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/GivenNames/ and alos check out the JewishGen
Discussion Group archives:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop


Enemy Alien Registration files #germany

kranser@...
 

I think that my grandfather, Herman or Hymon BEHR was registered as a German
enemy alien in New York City during WW2. Does anyone have advice as to how I
can access his record for information about his place of birth and other data?

Leonard Kranser Dana Point, CA kranser@...


German SIG #Germany Enemy Alien Registration files #germany

kranser@...
 

I think that my grandfather, Herman or Hymon BEHR was registered as a German
enemy alien in New York City during WW2. Does anyone have advice as to how I
can access his record for information about his place of birth and other data?

Leonard Kranser Dana Point, CA kranser@...


Brothers Alfred and Albin LEOPOLD from Germany to Denmark to Sweden and Possibly South Africa #germany

Linda Shefler
 

Last week I posted a request regarding Alfred LEOPOLD and a possible brother.
Facts were quite sketchy at the time but I have since learned a bit more.

Their mother was Matilde (Marta) ZELLER >from Zuentersbach. The brothers did
survive the war and at least for a time lived in Denmark. Alfred (Fred) was
born 06 Jun 1906 and eventually immigrated to Stockholm, Sweden. Albin was
born 12 Oct 1908 and possibly immigrated to South Africa. While in Denmark
they possibly had a 5 and 10 store.

If any of this sounds familiar please contact me privately.
I know that I responded privately to everyone who helped with my last posts,
but just to let you know publicly, your help is always gratefully
appreciated! All the best,

Linda Silverman Shefler Hod HaSharon, Israel linda.shefler@...


German SIG #Germany Brothers Alfred and Albin LEOPOLD from Germany to Denmark to Sweden and Possibly South Africa #germany

Linda Shefler
 

Last week I posted a request regarding Alfred LEOPOLD and a possible brother.
Facts were quite sketchy at the time but I have since learned a bit more.

Their mother was Matilde (Marta) ZELLER >from Zuentersbach. The brothers did
survive the war and at least for a time lived in Denmark. Alfred (Fred) was
born 06 Jun 1906 and eventually immigrated to Stockholm, Sweden. Albin was
born 12 Oct 1908 and possibly immigrated to South Africa. While in Denmark
they possibly had a 5 and 10 store.

If any of this sounds familiar please contact me privately.
I know that I responded privately to everyone who helped with my last posts,
but just to let you know publicly, your help is always gratefully
appreciated! All the best,

Linda Silverman Shefler Hod HaSharon, Israel linda.shefler@...