Date   

Re: Shimon, Simon, Samuel, Sam #general

Simon Barak
 

My greatfather was named Simion in Russian and Simcha in Yidisch but my
grandmother allways referred to him as Samichka. When he emigrated to
Argentina he became Simon and after his death many of his grandchildren were
named after him: Shimon-Simcha (myself), Ronnie (Joy = Simcha), Sammy, Rinat
(Joy in Hebrew), Gil (idem) and more.
Dr Shimon Barak, Tel Aviv, Israel.

Researching the following surnames:
BARG, BARK, BARCK, BERG (Anywhere but especially Ukraine & Argentina)
Please visit our Homepage at www.geocities.com/bargfamily/
MAURER, NEUMANN (Drohobycz, Boryslaw and Lwow)
TACHMAN, TAJMAN, TAKHMAN, TOKER (Chisinau, Mohlev, Argentina)
HOLZMANN (Przasnysz, Plonsk, Poland and Israel)
SILBERSTEIN (Warsaw and Tel Aviv)


Origin of "Jewish" or "German" family names--and names in any other language #general

MBernet@...
 

There is much confusion about the "linguistic" origin of family names. Let
me add some of
==my own comments and explanations

In a message dated 10/24/2002 11:09:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Katarina,
me4_myself@yahoo.com writes:

<< How your jewish lastmanes have origin >from Germany and other
countries, Kramer is 100% German surname, how you can call it
Jewish, and Altman i didn't find origin but is it possible Altman
is Jewish or just accepted to be Jewish? >>

to which Roger Lustig replied:

In much of Germany, Jews did not have fixed surnames until 1812 or even
later. At that time, German Jews took all kinds of surnames.
==Jews in northern and eastern Europe were not required to register fixed
family names before the late 18th century under some jurisdictions, the
early 19th centuries in others, and the late 19th century in the rest. Most
Ashkenazi Jews in Europe spoke a Germanic language; Yiddish is a Germanic
language much of which can be easily understood today by Germans, especially
by rural residents in Franconia and German speaking folk in Switzerland.

==Among themselves, Jews distingushed one family >from another with
informal names which usually came from
1. The town or village >from where they had come (Zeckendorfer, Wiener)
2. The name of a father and, less often, a mother (Wolff, Esthersohn)
3. Shape, size, or color (Gross, Schwartz etc)
4. Their occupation
5. Their status in the Jewish community

==1. Jews were much more likely than Gentiles to have location names. In
Germany it was common to tack -er at the end of the name; in Eastern Europe
the suffix was more often omitted
==2. Johannson is more likely to be Gentile, Mosesohn and Mendelsohn are
almost certain to be Jewish in origin. In general, most Old Testament names
that are not also saint's names are likely to be Jewish, as are also animal
names, Baer, Hirsch, Loeb, Wolff
==3. I don't know to what extent this was more common among Jews than
among Gentiles. Of course, as German words, when you come across the name
in a Slavic or Magyar country, the fact that it's a German word almost
guarantees that the bearer of the name is Jewish
==4. Metzger or Fleischmann (both mean purveyor of meat) are as likely to
be Jewish as Gentile. But Schechter, a Jewish ritual slaughterer, can only
be Jewish
There are some professions that were more common among Jews than
among Gentiles; Goldschmidt and Wechsler are very likely Jewish families.
Some occupations, that are related to the practice of the Jewish
faith are exclusively Jewish (like Schechter): Rabin(er), Chassen,
Schulsinger, Schulklopfer, Lamden (whence comes the corruption London, and
even Englander), Parnas, Gabbai
==5. Cohen (Kohn, Katz, Kaplan, Kagan), members of the Priestly class,
and Levi, Segal (members of the tribe of Levi) are Jewish, of course.
Deutsch or Deitz is an abbreviation for a rabbinical judge, Schub for an in
spector of kosher slaughtering (and see under 4. above).

Roger continues:
Many of these names were based on the profession of the person taking
the name. Someone who ran a small shop might well have called himself
Kramer or Kraemer.
==not necessarily called himself--most times the family had been known by
that name for years or generations (trades tended to be hereditary) by folk,
Jewish and Gentile, and they took that name as their official name

As for "Altmann", there are plenty of records of Jews taking that name.
==There are a number of reasons why Jews had that name; one of them is if
there were two people in the village with the same name; the older would be
surnamed Alter or Altermann by everyone.

There's no reason to expect any name (except perhaps Kohn) to be truly
"Jewish".
==with certain exceptions, see above)

My great-great-grandmother Friederike Altmann was Jewish. Her father,
Leopold Altmann, was also Jewish, and was probably the person who
originally took the name. He and his daughter were not "accepted as
Jewish"--they were Jewish. Names don't have religions--people do.

==Those who had a Germanic name in non-Germanic countries were likely to
have had ancestors, Jewish or Gentile, who migrated >from Germany. Where
such migrations were rare for Gentiles, you can often assume they're Jewish.

To really understand the derivation of Jewish family (and first) names, you
should buy a good book. I heartily recommend Kaganoff's Dictionary of
Jewish Names and their History, which is both a history of Jewish naming
patterns (and incidentally, also information, on Jewish wandering, culture,
and more), both first names and family names. Alas, it's out of print but
you may find a used copy on line, or read it through your synagogue or your
public library--and if you do, please send a polite note to the publisher,
asking him to reprint it. You'll be doing a favor to us all.

Michael Bernet, New York, mBernet@aol.com.


Re: ALTMAN & KRAMER #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Lots of Jewish names are also German or Polish or Russian names. Names we
consider Jewish are often of Yiddish or German origin. In Russian and Polish
areas, many Yiddish words are very similar to German words, so a name like
Ruslander is Yiddish in origin, but the word is the same in German. Also
German Jews had German names (my father's family for instance) because many
German Jews spoke German and not Yiddish.

Similarly Polish names and Russian names were used by Jews and non-Jews
alike for various reasons (coming >from a town for example).

In the US, many of the names are assumed to be Jewish or non-Jewish
exclusively when, in reality, they were used by both groups. If you look at
the actual records >from Europe you will find that the names of Jewish
families are not exclusively what todays Americans think of as Jewish-and
often Christians in Germany especially had what we think of as Jewish
names-Lowenstein for example.

Many things are not as simple as we think, names are a good example of this.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


Re: English names Samuel/Sam, & their root Hebrew names in #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Since posting my message recently about the use by European immigrants to
the US of the name Samuel, when their original Hebrew name in Europe was
Shimon or Shmueyl, I have received a number of messages >from JewishGenners
giving additional instances in which the names Sam or Samuel were
unexpectedly used for Hebrew names other than Shmueyl -- the normally
expected root name for Samuel. I would like to thank all of those that
took the time to write to me.

So, I thought that I would search the new Lithuania Given Names Data Base
currently on my computer (but not yet uploaded to the JewishGen Given Names
web site) for all of those Hebrew/Yiddish names which led to either of the
English names Samuel or Sam upon immigration to the US. Nearly all of
those given to me by the JewishGenners who wrote to me are included in the
list I found. Here is the list of names (not all Hebrew/Yiddish names had
the same frequency of occurence -- some were more popular than others,
Shmueyl leading the list):

Nesaneyl, Saadya, Shabsay, Shalom, Shaul, Shaye, Shimon, Shimshon, Shlomo,
Shmarya, Shmaryahu, Shmueyl, Shneyur, Simcha, Sinai, Yehoshua, Yeshaya,
Yisraeyl, Zekharya, Ziskind, Zushe, Zusman.

Warren Blatt observed that many Hebrew/Yiddish names either beginning with
the Hebrew equivalent of the English letter "s" or something sounding like
"s" (e.g., "sh" or "z") led naturally to the English names Samuel or
Sam. He also pointed out that other European names which had a popular
European nickname beginning with an "s" or "sh" sound, like Srol or Shaye,
could also change into Sam or Samuel in the US.

Does anyone else have any other such odd pairs to add to this list, either
for Lithuania, or for any other European countries?

Shabbat shalom,

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Shimon, Simon, Samuel, Sam #general

Simon Barak
 

My greatfather was named Simion in Russian and Simcha in Yidisch but my
grandmother allways referred to him as Samichka. When he emigrated to
Argentina he became Simon and after his death many of his grandchildren were
named after him: Shimon-Simcha (myself), Ronnie (Joy = Simcha), Sammy, Rinat
(Joy in Hebrew), Gil (idem) and more.
Dr Shimon Barak, Tel Aviv, Israel.

Researching the following surnames:
BARG, BARK, BARCK, BERG (Anywhere but especially Ukraine & Argentina)
Please visit our Homepage at www.geocities.com/bargfamily/
MAURER, NEUMANN (Drohobycz, Boryslaw and Lwow)
TACHMAN, TAJMAN, TAKHMAN, TOKER (Chisinau, Mohlev, Argentina)
HOLZMANN (Przasnysz, Plonsk, Poland and Israel)
SILBERSTEIN (Warsaw and Tel Aviv)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Origin of "Jewish" or "German" family names--and names in any other language #general

MBernet@...
 

There is much confusion about the "linguistic" origin of family names. Let
me add some of
==my own comments and explanations

In a message dated 10/24/2002 11:09:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Katarina,
me4_myself@yahoo.com writes:

<< How your jewish lastmanes have origin >from Germany and other
countries, Kramer is 100% German surname, how you can call it
Jewish, and Altman i didn't find origin but is it possible Altman
is Jewish or just accepted to be Jewish? >>

to which Roger Lustig replied:

In much of Germany, Jews did not have fixed surnames until 1812 or even
later. At that time, German Jews took all kinds of surnames.
==Jews in northern and eastern Europe were not required to register fixed
family names before the late 18th century under some jurisdictions, the
early 19th centuries in others, and the late 19th century in the rest. Most
Ashkenazi Jews in Europe spoke a Germanic language; Yiddish is a Germanic
language much of which can be easily understood today by Germans, especially
by rural residents in Franconia and German speaking folk in Switzerland.

==Among themselves, Jews distingushed one family >from another with
informal names which usually came from
1. The town or village >from where they had come (Zeckendorfer, Wiener)
2. The name of a father and, less often, a mother (Wolff, Esthersohn)
3. Shape, size, or color (Gross, Schwartz etc)
4. Their occupation
5. Their status in the Jewish community

==1. Jews were much more likely than Gentiles to have location names. In
Germany it was common to tack -er at the end of the name; in Eastern Europe
the suffix was more often omitted
==2. Johannson is more likely to be Gentile, Mosesohn and Mendelsohn are
almost certain to be Jewish in origin. In general, most Old Testament names
that are not also saint's names are likely to be Jewish, as are also animal
names, Baer, Hirsch, Loeb, Wolff
==3. I don't know to what extent this was more common among Jews than
among Gentiles. Of course, as German words, when you come across the name
in a Slavic or Magyar country, the fact that it's a German word almost
guarantees that the bearer of the name is Jewish
==4. Metzger or Fleischmann (both mean purveyor of meat) are as likely to
be Jewish as Gentile. But Schechter, a Jewish ritual slaughterer, can only
be Jewish
There are some professions that were more common among Jews than
among Gentiles; Goldschmidt and Wechsler are very likely Jewish families.
Some occupations, that are related to the practice of the Jewish
faith are exclusively Jewish (like Schechter): Rabin(er), Chassen,
Schulsinger, Schulklopfer, Lamden (whence comes the corruption London, and
even Englander), Parnas, Gabbai
==5. Cohen (Kohn, Katz, Kaplan, Kagan), members of the Priestly class,
and Levi, Segal (members of the tribe of Levi) are Jewish, of course.
Deutsch or Deitz is an abbreviation for a rabbinical judge, Schub for an in
spector of kosher slaughtering (and see under 4. above).

Roger continues:
Many of these names were based on the profession of the person taking
the name. Someone who ran a small shop might well have called himself
Kramer or Kraemer.
==not necessarily called himself--most times the family had been known by
that name for years or generations (trades tended to be hereditary) by folk,
Jewish and Gentile, and they took that name as their official name

As for "Altmann", there are plenty of records of Jews taking that name.
==There are a number of reasons why Jews had that name; one of them is if
there were two people in the village with the same name; the older would be
surnamed Alter or Altermann by everyone.

There's no reason to expect any name (except perhaps Kohn) to be truly
"Jewish".
==with certain exceptions, see above)

My great-great-grandmother Friederike Altmann was Jewish. Her father,
Leopold Altmann, was also Jewish, and was probably the person who
originally took the name. He and his daughter were not "accepted as
Jewish"--they were Jewish. Names don't have religions--people do.

==Those who had a Germanic name in non-Germanic countries were likely to
have had ancestors, Jewish or Gentile, who migrated >from Germany. Where
such migrations were rare for Gentiles, you can often assume they're Jewish.

To really understand the derivation of Jewish family (and first) names, you
should buy a good book. I heartily recommend Kaganoff's Dictionary of
Jewish Names and their History, which is both a history of Jewish naming
patterns (and incidentally, also information, on Jewish wandering, culture,
and more), both first names and family names. Alas, it's out of print but
you may find a used copy on line, or read it through your synagogue or your
public library--and if you do, please send a polite note to the publisher,
asking him to reprint it. You'll be doing a favor to us all.

Michael Bernet, New York, mBernet@aol.com.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: ALTMAN & KRAMER #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Lots of Jewish names are also German or Polish or Russian names. Names we
consider Jewish are often of Yiddish or German origin. In Russian and Polish
areas, many Yiddish words are very similar to German words, so a name like
Ruslander is Yiddish in origin, but the word is the same in German. Also
German Jews had German names (my father's family for instance) because many
German Jews spoke German and not Yiddish.

Similarly Polish names and Russian names were used by Jews and non-Jews
alike for various reasons (coming >from a town for example).

In the US, many of the names are assumed to be Jewish or non-Jewish
exclusively when, in reality, they were used by both groups. If you look at
the actual records >from Europe you will find that the names of Jewish
families are not exclusively what todays Americans think of as Jewish-and
often Christians in Germany especially had what we think of as Jewish
names-Lowenstein for example.

Many things are not as simple as we think, names are a good example of this.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: English names Samuel/Sam, & their root Hebrew names in #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Since posting my message recently about the use by European immigrants to
the US of the name Samuel, when their original Hebrew name in Europe was
Shimon or Shmueyl, I have received a number of messages >from JewishGenners
giving additional instances in which the names Sam or Samuel were
unexpectedly used for Hebrew names other than Shmueyl -- the normally
expected root name for Samuel. I would like to thank all of those that
took the time to write to me.

So, I thought that I would search the new Lithuania Given Names Data Base
currently on my computer (but not yet uploaded to the JewishGen Given Names
web site) for all of those Hebrew/Yiddish names which led to either of the
English names Samuel or Sam upon immigration to the US. Nearly all of
those given to me by the JewishGenners who wrote to me are included in the
list I found. Here is the list of names (not all Hebrew/Yiddish names had
the same frequency of occurence -- some were more popular than others,
Shmueyl leading the list):

Nesaneyl, Saadya, Shabsay, Shalom, Shaul, Shaye, Shimon, Shimshon, Shlomo,
Shmarya, Shmaryahu, Shmueyl, Shneyur, Simcha, Sinai, Yehoshua, Yeshaya,
Yisraeyl, Zekharya, Ziskind, Zushe, Zusman.

Warren Blatt observed that many Hebrew/Yiddish names either beginning with
the Hebrew equivalent of the English letter "s" or something sounding like
"s" (e.g., "sh" or "z") led naturally to the English names Samuel or
Sam. He also pointed out that other European names which had a popular
European nickname beginning with an "s" or "sh" sound, like Srol or Shaye,
could also change into Sam or Samuel in the US.

Does anyone else have any other such odd pairs to add to this list, either
for Lithuania, or for any other European countries?

Shabbat shalom,

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel


Could KOVACKS have been COHEN? #hungary

Mimi Katz <GeveretK@...>
 

Does anyone know the origin of the name KOVACS in Hungary? Could it have
been COHEN (any spelling)? I would also appreciate knowing the source of
this information.

Thank you,
Mimi Katz, Chicago

Moderator VK: COHEN is not a name that is common to Hungarian Jews. KOHN is the usual spelling. Some of the people whose surname was originally KOHN selected KOVACS as a surname. Others named KOHN "magyarized" their surnames to KADAR, KALDOR, KALMAR, and KARDOS. One reason for selecting the name KOVACS was that it was a very common Hungarian surname. According to information >from Janos Bogardi, KOVACS was the second most common name listed in the 1891 Industry and Trade Directory. 3,133 of the the roughly 380,000 persons listed had this surname. Ironically, the surname most frequently listed in the Directory was WEISZ, which is a rather typical Jewish name! 4,032 of those included in the directory had this surname. Aside >from the fact that some Jews named KOHN changed their name to KOVACS there is, to my knowledge, no relationship between these names other than the fact that they both start with the letter "k".


Hungary SIG #Hungary Could KOVACKS have been COHEN? #hungary

Mimi Katz <GeveretK@...>
 

Does anyone know the origin of the name KOVACS in Hungary? Could it have
been COHEN (any spelling)? I would also appreciate knowing the source of
this information.

Thank you,
Mimi Katz, Chicago

Moderator VK: COHEN is not a name that is common to Hungarian Jews. KOHN is the usual spelling. Some of the people whose surname was originally KOHN selected KOVACS as a surname. Others named KOHN "magyarized" their surnames to KADAR, KALDOR, KALMAR, and KARDOS. One reason for selecting the name KOVACS was that it was a very common Hungarian surname. According to information >from Janos Bogardi, KOVACS was the second most common name listed in the 1891 Industry and Trade Directory. 3,133 of the the roughly 380,000 persons listed had this surname. Ironically, the surname most frequently listed in the Directory was WEISZ, which is a rather typical Jewish name! 4,032 of those included in the directory had this surname. Aside >from the fact that some Jews named KOHN changed their name to KOVACS there is, to my knowledge, no relationship between these names other than the fact that they both start with the letter "k".


Re: Difficult research problem in London #unitedkingdom

Sophia Hallan <sophia_hallan@...>
 

Dear Linda,

If your relative was in London between 1888 and 1903
then you could try using the on-line version of the
England and Wales 1901 Census Test Site at
http://census.pro.gov.uk. I have had some success
locating relatives when we were not sure where they
were at at around this time.

It is fairly self explanatory and you can pay for full
details and printouts using a credit card. The only
draw back if you are in the USA is that it is only
active >from 09h00-17h00 UK time though 7 days a week.

Best of Luck

Sophia Hallan

Researching:

KAZANSKY/KHAZANSKY/KAZAN: Sirotino nr Vitebsk -> Lake
Houleh & Jerusalem, Palestine -> London, Manchester &
Liverpool, UK [-> USA].

ELBERG: Sokolow, Bialystok & Krakow, Poland -> London,
Manchester & Liverpool, UK.

HYMAN/HEIMAN: 1840's Central Europe -> London,
Manchester, UK.

COHEN (HaCohen): 1840's Central Europe -> London,
Manchester, UK.


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Difficult research problem in London #unitedkingdom

Sophia Hallan <sophia_hallan@...>
 

Dear Linda,

If your relative was in London between 1888 and 1903
then you could try using the on-line version of the
England and Wales 1901 Census Test Site at
http://census.pro.gov.uk. I have had some success
locating relatives when we were not sure where they
were at at around this time.

It is fairly self explanatory and you can pay for full
details and printouts using a credit card. The only
draw back if you are in the USA is that it is only
active >from 09h00-17h00 UK time though 7 days a week.

Best of Luck

Sophia Hallan

Researching:

KAZANSKY/KHAZANSKY/KAZAN: Sirotino nr Vitebsk -> Lake
Houleh & Jerusalem, Palestine -> London, Manchester &
Liverpool, UK [-> USA].

ELBERG: Sokolow, Bialystok & Krakow, Poland -> London,
Manchester & Liverpool, UK.

HYMAN/HEIMAN: 1840's Central Europe -> London,
Manchester, UK.

COHEN (HaCohen): 1840's Central Europe -> London,
Manchester, UK.


Re: Passengers arriving twice to EI #general

Alex Skolnick <bussupp@...>
 

genners,

the most likely explanation is that they did not sail on the first
trip, but sailed on the second. Something happened at the port-- they
realized they didn't have the correct papers, someone got sick, etc. So
they traveled a week or two later.

Alex Skolnick
Somerset, NJ

--- Saul Marks <saulmarks@hotmail.com> wrote:

I, too, have had the same thing: my Tarakowskaja family (mother & 4
children) came into EI on 4 July 1910 & again on the same ship on 15
August
1910.

Can anyone provide any other explanations for this strange
"behaviour"?


Re: BOTWINICK : not original name #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Assuming that it is the given name which is the question, the most likely
Hebrew/Yiddish name for Barnet in English is any which starts with B. My
gr grandfather Baruch was at one point Barnet. Ber which is Yiddish is
another possibility-the Hebrew Dov is a likely Hebrew name for someone
known as Ber because the meaning is the same. Of course any name can
become any other name in another language, but Barnet is not common enough
to be considered 'popular', so it would be likely that he would have a 'B'
name.

What you need, however, is evidence. His Hebrew name would be on his
tombstone if it is in Hebrew. So would synagogue records usually have his
Hebrew name. Any civil records are also possible, such as my gr
grandfather's marriage record where he is Baruch on one page and Barnett on
the other-although usually in the US he was Bernhard!

As for the spelling of the surname, spelling varied a lot in the beginning
of the 20th century and before. You need to search all possible spellings
and misspellings of this or any name.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


Re: BOTWINICK : not original name #general

Linda <altmanlh@...>
 

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, "Unterspan" wrote:
... How do I get further than this, I don't have living relatives who can tell
me what his name was before he called himself Barnet (Barnie) and added the
c to the surname.

Thanks.

Diane Unterspan
Diane;
I did a lookup on the SSDI list located at <http://www.familysearch.org>
searching only the name BOTWINICK and came up with 105 hits. Using the
surname BOTWINIK there were 52 hits. I did not see anything with a given
name of Barnet(Barnett) or Barnie (Barney). There were several who died
in 1962. Keep in mind that handwritten Barnett or Barnet can look a lot
like Bennett or Bennet. It can also be mistaken as Bernard or Barnard.
Barney or Barnie can be mistaken for Benny or Bennie, which can then be
misinterpreted to mean that his name was Benjamin. My g. grandfather's
name was also Barnet, his name has appeard in records using all of the
above deviations as well as Bonish (a New York City clerk's
interpretation). His original given name was Bentzion. There is also
another Bentzion in my family. He went by the given name of David.

Have you tried finding a phone book for 1961 for Glen Cove? He may be
listed there. Also, look for probate or a will for him. Did he own a home
or land in Glen Cove? Check with the town or county office for deed and
land records. The best way to find out about him is to go >from the last
record created to the first. Trace him backwards >from his death to his
birth. You have his death certificate. Now, look for burial and cemetary
records. Then probate and wills, land and deeds, tax records, voter
records, marriage records, birth records of his children and their
marriage records and census records. He has to be out there somewhere.

I hope that this helps you.

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
researching:
ALTMAN, >from Russia to NY City. TYRNAUER >from Hungary.
BERGMAN >from Warsaw & Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland to the UK, Israel and US.
CYBULA/CYBULKA/CYBULKO/CYBULKSI, Ostrow Maz., Siedlce,& Zambrow, Poland to
UK, and US. GOLDFINGIER, Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland. SINGER, Austria.
KRIEDBERG/KREIDBERG/KZAIBURG/KRITBERG/KRITZBERG >from Russia to US.
LIEBERMAN, Austria and Romania to US.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Passengers arriving twice to EI #general

Alex Skolnick <bussupp@...>
 

genners,

the most likely explanation is that they did not sail on the first
trip, but sailed on the second. Something happened at the port-- they
realized they didn't have the correct papers, someone got sick, etc. So
they traveled a week or two later.

Alex Skolnick
Somerset, NJ

--- Saul Marks <saulmarks@hotmail.com> wrote:

I, too, have had the same thing: my Tarakowskaja family (mother & 4
children) came into EI on 4 July 1910 & again on the same ship on 15
August
1910.

Can anyone provide any other explanations for this strange
"behaviour"?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: BOTWINICK : not original name #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Assuming that it is the given name which is the question, the most likely
Hebrew/Yiddish name for Barnet in English is any which starts with B. My
gr grandfather Baruch was at one point Barnet. Ber which is Yiddish is
another possibility-the Hebrew Dov is a likely Hebrew name for someone
known as Ber because the meaning is the same. Of course any name can
become any other name in another language, but Barnet is not common enough
to be considered 'popular', so it would be likely that he would have a 'B'
name.

What you need, however, is evidence. His Hebrew name would be on his
tombstone if it is in Hebrew. So would synagogue records usually have his
Hebrew name. Any civil records are also possible, such as my gr
grandfather's marriage record where he is Baruch on one page and Barnett on
the other-although usually in the US he was Bernhard!

As for the spelling of the surname, spelling varied a lot in the beginning
of the 20th century and before. You need to search all possible spellings
and misspellings of this or any name.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: BOTWINICK : not original name #general

Linda <altmanlh@...>
 

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, "Unterspan" wrote:
... How do I get further than this, I don't have living relatives who can tell
me what his name was before he called himself Barnet (Barnie) and added the
c to the surname.

Thanks.

Diane Unterspan
Diane;
I did a lookup on the SSDI list located at <http://www.familysearch.org>
searching only the name BOTWINICK and came up with 105 hits. Using the
surname BOTWINIK there were 52 hits. I did not see anything with a given
name of Barnet(Barnett) or Barnie (Barney). There were several who died
in 1962. Keep in mind that handwritten Barnett or Barnet can look a lot
like Bennett or Bennet. It can also be mistaken as Bernard or Barnard.
Barney or Barnie can be mistaken for Benny or Bennie, which can then be
misinterpreted to mean that his name was Benjamin. My g. grandfather's
name was also Barnet, his name has appeard in records using all of the
above deviations as well as Bonish (a New York City clerk's
interpretation). His original given name was Bentzion. There is also
another Bentzion in my family. He went by the given name of David.

Have you tried finding a phone book for 1961 for Glen Cove? He may be
listed there. Also, look for probate or a will for him. Did he own a home
or land in Glen Cove? Check with the town or county office for deed and
land records. The best way to find out about him is to go >from the last
record created to the first. Trace him backwards >from his death to his
birth. You have his death certificate. Now, look for burial and cemetary
records. Then probate and wills, land and deeds, tax records, voter
records, marriage records, birth records of his children and their
marriage records and census records. He has to be out there somewhere.

I hope that this helps you.

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
researching:
ALTMAN, >from Russia to NY City. TYRNAUER >from Hungary.
BERGMAN >from Warsaw & Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland to the UK, Israel and US.
CYBULA/CYBULKA/CYBULKO/CYBULKSI, Ostrow Maz., Siedlce,& Zambrow, Poland to
UK, and US. GOLDFINGIER, Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland. SINGER, Austria.
KRIEDBERG/KREIDBERG/KZAIBURG/KRITBERG/KRITZBERG >from Russia to US.
LIEBERMAN, Austria and Romania to US.


*Read* your posting, *know* who sent what #general

MBernet@...
 

Someone recently posted a query about a family named EPPELBAUM somewhere
in Poland. I thought I'd be helpful and pointed out various alternate
name spellings to check for. Alas, I am no Newton, but since that mement
I have been showered with fruit >from every *apple tree*.

Please, folk, don't simply click the "reply" button when you think you
have something momentous to tell--make sure you know whom the original
message or inquiry actually came >from (It's there, right on the first line
of the message "In a message dated . . . xyz@klm.com writes"). Don't
simply reply to the person who signs the message.

Many of the responses I got were addressed to me personally--and so they
never reached the persdon they were intended for or the List membership.

Please, if you have info for the Appel- Eppel- or whatever -baum family,
send it to the persons who asked, not by a bystander who innocently
thought he could help. This isn't the first time it's happened to me, and
I'm sure it's happened to many other people who wanted to be helpful.

And please, remember, I know nothin at all about any APPEL- or EPPEL
family. I had originally tried to be helpful, I subsequently tried to be
polite to all who wrote to tell them they have the wrong guy. Don't
misaddress any other messages to me. I won't even bother to open them.

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>


Re: 1880 census now online #general

Marty <marty@...>
 

The 1880 indexed census mentioned by Rich is wonderful.
Thanks for the heads up!

Does anyone know how to take the film number and page number returned by
the LDS index and use it to view the images on ancestry.com??

For example, I would like to see
NA Film Number T9-0875 Page Number 509A

Thanks,
Marty

--
Marty Meyers
<meyers01@comcast.net>