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Russian Army Papers Translated #general

Yendor62@...
 

Dear Genners,
A couple of weeks ago I posted a message about finding the original
Russian army papers of both my grandfathers. For anyone interested in
seeing the translation of one of them (Henoch ABELOWITZ, or as translated
Genokh ABELEVICH), please go to:

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine

and click on "Army Discharge."
Several people wrote to ask how I got access to these papers. They were
discovered among a lot of family papers and pictures. I have no information
about how to access the Russian army archives.
My thanks to all the people who expressed interest in seeing these
papers.
Toby (RABINOWITZ) RODNEY
apex, nc
yendor62@aol.com
Researching: ABELOWITZ (Ekaterinslav/Dnepropetrovsk),
SUCHOWITZKI (Kartuz-Bereza),
TROIANSKY/TROYANKER (Talnoye),
ZALMECHOVSKY/ZAMCHOVSKY (Kalnibloder)
Byiblau/Bibro, Wustadt, Dobrowich/Dobromil #general

Elise Friedman <efweb@...>
 

All,

I'm hoping someone can help me with the proper names and locations of
some towns. Here's some background info and what I'm looking for:

My great-grandmother (mgf's mother) was one of three sisters who
immigrated to the US. They had brothers who never immigrated and their
parents didn't immigrate. I know the family is >from Galicia and I'm
trying to pinpoint exactly where.

My great-grandmother came over first as a single woman. Her younger
sister came over second as a single woman. Her older sister came over
third with her children to join her husband. Seeing as my ggm
supposedly came alone and was single, she had to have had family (or
friends) here already. No one, including my grandfather and his
brother, has any clue who this family may have been, so that's
something I'm working on researching.

I found the oldest sister's manifest quite a while back. It says she
is >from Dobrowich (Galicia). My uncle thought she was >from Dobromil.
I'm not sure if these are the same towns or different?

I have had an extremely difficult time finding my ggm and her youngest
sister's manifests because their maiden name is Miller or some
variation and because we're unsure of what names they would have used.
Needle in a haystack describes this search best.

However, I just had a breakthrough. A cousin recently learned that her
family had the youngest sister's certificate of naturalization and got
a copy. So, that in hand, we easily obtained a copy of the rest of the
naturalization documents, which told us what ship she arrived on, when
she arrived and under what name. And this morning, I found her
manifest on the Ellis Island website. The manifest says her last
residence was "Bibro" and she left her mother in Bibro. My uncle
thought the Millers were >from "Byiblau" or something similar. The
place of birth column says something like "Wustadt", but unfortunately
the handwriting on this manifest is difficult to read.

So, does anyone know if Dobrowich and Dobromil could be the same town?
And does anyone recognize the names Bibro/Byiblau and Wustadt, or some
variations of those, as being nearby shtetls? I tried ShtetlSeeker,
but there are just too many possibilities that come up using D-M,
especially for Bibro/Byiblau. So if anyone recognizes these towns and
can shed some light, I would very much like to hear >from you.

Thanks!

Elise Friedman
Columbia, Maryland
Re: Phonetic spelling of shtetl on EIDB #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

"Is this enough to confirm the town as Borzna or
say for definite that it's Berezna?"

I am not a native Russian speaker, but I am a genealogist, so I know
that it is dangerous to say anything is definite until you have confirmed
it with at least one primary source (preferably more). It may mean
looking in two areas for records of your family as in this case -
of course if records are only available for one of the two, that is
the place to look (and say a prayer that it is that place). If you
only had one of these entries, you might say "oh, they must mean (one
or the other)' because the 'i' is there or not in the entry - and jump
to a wrong conclusion maybe 50% of the time perhaps.

Of course, it will often turn out that the family came >from some tiny
shtetl near one or the other "big city" and not the city itself - and
also that various family members lived in several little shtetls in
the area.

We often need to search for people in locations where they aren't.
I searched for my gr grandmother's family in St. Louis for a long
time - and they were in NYC at the time (have you ever read census
rolls looking for a certain family). I had good reason, a cousin
with the same odd surname married my gr grandfather's brother in
St. Louis, and I was looking for her family and my gr grandfather's
marriage to the girl with the same odd surname (they lived in
Missouri at the time). Then I went to the family cemetery plot
in NYC (where they lived many years later) and saw the odd name
on a big monument-so much for St. Louis. I had reason to believe
St. Louis was the family source, and no reason to think of NY until
I got to the cemetery, so I searched in St. Louis. Such is life
as a genealogist - we have to search somewhere or we wouldn't be
genealogists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY
Skierniewice #general

Aubrey Jacobus <marie@...>
 

I have been given a copy of the program for the 50th Anniversary dinner of
the New York Skierniewice Benevolent Soc in 1963 .
It contains a list of those present - If anyone is interested in a look-up

Aubrey Jacobus

--
Check my Genealogical webpage
www.mjacobus.freeserve.co.uk
Please use
aubrey@jacobus.org for replies
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Russian Army Papers Translated #general

Yendor62@...
 

Dear Genners,
A couple of weeks ago I posted a message about finding the original
Russian army papers of both my grandfathers. For anyone interested in
seeing the translation of one of them (Henoch ABELOWITZ, or as translated
Genokh ABELEVICH), please go to:

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine

and click on "Army Discharge."
Several people wrote to ask how I got access to these papers. They were
discovered among a lot of family papers and pictures. I have no information
about how to access the Russian army archives.
My thanks to all the people who expressed interest in seeing these
papers.
Toby (RABINOWITZ) RODNEY
apex, nc
yendor62@aol.com
Researching: ABELOWITZ (Ekaterinslav/Dnepropetrovsk),
SUCHOWITZKI (Kartuz-Bereza),
TROIANSKY/TROYANKER (Talnoye),
ZALMECHOVSKY/ZAMCHOVSKY (Kalnibloder)
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Byiblau/Bibro, Wustadt, Dobrowich/Dobromil #general

Elise Friedman <efweb@...>
 

All,

I'm hoping someone can help me with the proper names and locations of
some towns. Here's some background info and what I'm looking for:

My great-grandmother (mgf's mother) was one of three sisters who
immigrated to the US. They had brothers who never immigrated and their
parents didn't immigrate. I know the family is >from Galicia and I'm
trying to pinpoint exactly where.

My great-grandmother came over first as a single woman. Her younger
sister came over second as a single woman. Her older sister came over
third with her children to join her husband. Seeing as my ggm
supposedly came alone and was single, she had to have had family (or
friends) here already. No one, including my grandfather and his
brother, has any clue who this family may have been, so that's
something I'm working on researching.

I found the oldest sister's manifest quite a while back. It says she
is >from Dobrowich (Galicia). My uncle thought she was >from Dobromil.
I'm not sure if these are the same towns or different?

I have had an extremely difficult time finding my ggm and her youngest
sister's manifests because their maiden name is Miller or some
variation and because we're unsure of what names they would have used.
Needle in a haystack describes this search best.

However, I just had a breakthrough. A cousin recently learned that her
family had the youngest sister's certificate of naturalization and got
a copy. So, that in hand, we easily obtained a copy of the rest of the
naturalization documents, which told us what ship she arrived on, when
she arrived and under what name. And this morning, I found her
manifest on the Ellis Island website. The manifest says her last
residence was "Bibro" and she left her mother in Bibro. My uncle
thought the Millers were >from "Byiblau" or something similar. The
place of birth column says something like "Wustadt", but unfortunately
the handwriting on this manifest is difficult to read.

So, does anyone know if Dobrowich and Dobromil could be the same town?
And does anyone recognize the names Bibro/Byiblau and Wustadt, or some
variations of those, as being nearby shtetls? I tried ShtetlSeeker,
but there are just too many possibilities that come up using D-M,
especially for Bibro/Byiblau. So if anyone recognizes these towns and
can shed some light, I would very much like to hear >from you.

Thanks!

Elise Friedman
Columbia, Maryland
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Phonetic spelling of shtetl on EIDB #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

"Is this enough to confirm the town as Borzna or
say for definite that it's Berezna?"

I am not a native Russian speaker, but I am a genealogist, so I know
that it is dangerous to say anything is definite until you have confirmed
it with at least one primary source (preferably more). It may mean
looking in two areas for records of your family as in this case -
of course if records are only available for one of the two, that is
the place to look (and say a prayer that it is that place). If you
only had one of these entries, you might say "oh, they must mean (one
or the other)' because the 'i' is there or not in the entry - and jump
to a wrong conclusion maybe 50% of the time perhaps.

Of course, it will often turn out that the family came >from some tiny
shtetl near one or the other "big city" and not the city itself - and
also that various family members lived in several little shtetls in
the area.

We often need to search for people in locations where they aren't.
I searched for my gr grandmother's family in St. Louis for a long
time - and they were in NYC at the time (have you ever read census
rolls looking for a certain family). I had good reason, a cousin
with the same odd surname married my gr grandfather's brother in
St. Louis, and I was looking for her family and my gr grandfather's
marriage to the girl with the same odd surname (they lived in
Missouri at the time). Then I went to the family cemetery plot
in NYC (where they lived many years later) and saw the odd name
on a big monument-so much for St. Louis. I had reason to believe
St. Louis was the family source, and no reason to think of NY until
I got to the cemetery, so I searched in St. Louis. Such is life
as a genealogist - we have to search somewhere or we wouldn't be
genealogists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Skierniewice #general

Aubrey Jacobus <marie@...>
 

I have been given a copy of the program for the 50th Anniversary dinner of
the New York Skierniewice Benevolent Soc in 1963 .
It contains a list of those present - If anyone is interested in a look-up

Aubrey Jacobus

--
Check my Genealogical webpage
www.mjacobus.freeserve.co.uk
Please use
aubrey@jacobus.org for replies
Courland--> Kherson 1840, Now what??? #courland #latvia

Chaim freedman
 

In reply to Yoav Elepman's query,
The following site includes much material on Jewish colonies in the Ukraine:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine/index.htm

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il
Re: Courland--> Kherson 1840, Now what??? #courland #latvia

martha <martha@...>
 

Recently I found out that Novopoltavka was founded by Jews >from Courland
that moved to Kherson settlements in 1840-1842 encouraged by the Russian
government, so I started looking for my roots in today's Latvia (which as I
understood was Courland).
Courland formed a part of present-day Latvia, but if you followed my
posting a few days ago, there are five parts that went into
present-day Latvia.

I sent the Latvian archives a letter, and this Friday I got an answer that
says that my family name (with all its variants) does NOT appear in the list
of Jews that left Courland to Kherson in 1840.
If I am not mistaken, a special study had been undertaken regarding
the Jews who went to the provinces. If the Archives tell you that
your family was not included on the list of Jews >from Courland, I
think you can accept that as a fact of what is known to date.


My question to you is NOW WHAT???
How can I continue my research >from here? I was told that Lithuanian Jews
left to Kherson too but the Lithuanian archives told me that I should look
in the Latvian archives
So your question is, where does the buck stop? A good question. You
might try the Litvaks again and tell them that there is no record in
Latvia; you might try other archives, such as Minsk, just in case
your family was not Courlander, and came >from one of the districts
known to be in Belarus at one time.

Martha
Re: I need someone who knows how to fiddle with photos #courland #latvia

martha <martha@...>
 

I was hoping that someone else would also volunteer, as Ari
suggested, but since Ari was the only one, I'll be sending the
unreadable pictures of stones to Ari, with my thanks for your
generous volunteering spirit!

Martha


I can certainly give it a try. I have several tools that may do the
job. It might be a good idea for there to be several of us doing
this. That way you can pick the best of the lot.

Ari Benjaminson
abenjaminson@charter.net


I can send as an attachment the few remaining pictures that need
help to whomever volunteers Please let me know. Then we will
immediately post them to our website.
Courland SIG #Courland #Latvia Courland--> Kherson 1840, Now what??? #latvia #courland

Chaim freedman
 

In reply to Yoav Elepman's query,
The following site includes much material on Jewish colonies in the Ukraine:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine/index.htm

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il
Courland SIG #Courland #Latvia Re: Courland--> Kherson 1840, Now what??? #courland #latvia

martha <martha@...>
 

Recently I found out that Novopoltavka was founded by Jews >from Courland
that moved to Kherson settlements in 1840-1842 encouraged by the Russian
government, so I started looking for my roots in today's Latvia (which as I
understood was Courland).
Courland formed a part of present-day Latvia, but if you followed my
posting a few days ago, there are five parts that went into
present-day Latvia.

I sent the Latvian archives a letter, and this Friday I got an answer that
says that my family name (with all its variants) does NOT appear in the list
of Jews that left Courland to Kherson in 1840.
If I am not mistaken, a special study had been undertaken regarding
the Jews who went to the provinces. If the Archives tell you that
your family was not included on the list of Jews >from Courland, I
think you can accept that as a fact of what is known to date.


My question to you is NOW WHAT???
How can I continue my research >from here? I was told that Lithuanian Jews
left to Kherson too but the Lithuanian archives told me that I should look
in the Latvian archives
So your question is, where does the buck stop? A good question. You
might try the Litvaks again and tell them that there is no record in
Latvia; you might try other archives, such as Minsk, just in case
your family was not Courlander, and came >from one of the districts
known to be in Belarus at one time.

Martha
Courland SIG #Courland #Latvia Re: I need someone who knows how to fiddle with photos #courland #latvia

martha <martha@...>
 

I was hoping that someone else would also volunteer, as Ari
suggested, but since Ari was the only one, I'll be sending the
unreadable pictures of stones to Ari, with my thanks for your
generous volunteering spirit!

Martha


I can certainly give it a try. I have several tools that may do the
job. It might be a good idea for there to be several of us doing
this. That way you can pick the best of the lot.

Ari Benjaminson
abenjaminson@charter.net


I can send as an attachment the few remaining pictures that need
help to whomever volunteers Please let me know. Then we will
immediately post them to our website.
Gordon Mulholland #southafrica

Anne Budlender <annebud@...>
 

Does anyone know how I can contact the actor Gordon Mulholland? My husband's
grandmother, who was a convert to Judaism, was Gertrude Mulholland, and
apparently related to Gordon.

Thanks,
Anne Budlender
Melbourne
annebud@optushome.com.au

*** Please respond privately -- Moderator ***
South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Gordon Mulholland #southafrica

Anne Budlender <annebud@...>
 

Does anyone know how I can contact the actor Gordon Mulholland? My husband's
grandmother, who was a convert to Judaism, was Gertrude Mulholland, and
apparently related to Gordon.

Thanks,
Anne Budlender
Melbourne
annebud@optushome.com.au

*** Please respond privately -- Moderator ***
INS v. Courts #general

HENKEN9@...
 

Genners,

I would side with those who recommend contacting various courts or their
repositories before pursuing the INS route. In two instances I received
documents for federal Eastern District of New York naturalizations within
approx. one month of making such requests. And I personally retrieved
papers >from the Brooklyn Supreme Court for a third. With the information
available on the forms, I was able to quickly pursue additional research.

I would be quite hesitant to use the INS as my primary source because of the
time it takes them to respond. Plus, there is no guaranty that they will
have information unavailable to the courts. I might send in a request to
them contemporaneous with a court request, but not in lieu of the latter.

Regards,

Ty Henken
Centennial, Colo.
Henken9@aol.com
Re: occupation: scourer??? #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

In article <3DB81414.80100@sciti.com>,
Stephanie Weiner <laguna@sciti.com> wrote:

I have found information on a relative living in Amesbury, MA in
1903-1904. His occupation is listed as "scourer." Anyone have a clue
what a scourer did??
Oxford English Dictionary includes:

1. a. One who polishes or cleanses by hard rubbing. Used esp. as the
designation of certain servants in the Royal Household.

2. One who cleans wool, cloth, clothes, etc.

3. One who cleans out drains, etc.

So it's likely he cleaned something - but whether it was dishes, clothes,
drains or something else is not clear.

Robert Israel
israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: Naturalization papers from INS #general

Michael McTeer <desrx@...>
 

The INS is akin to that uncooperative relative who knows everything but for
various reasons does not wish to share. Obviously the mission of the INS is
not the same as the NARA. And certainly after 9-11, more funds are going to
'security' issues than old records. I cringe everytime I even think about
contacting the INS. My saga begins in/about 1989 when I sought immigration
records for my grandmother, Esther (Kalkopf) McTeer, and her mother, Liba
(Lenczner) Lieberman Kalkopf Freymorgen. After a few months I received a
note stating that Esther's name had been found on an 'index' (>from the
regional office covering Los Angeles). A few months later, I received
another note saying they had nothing.

It has taken about ten years, but I *finally* received a *portion* of Liba's
immigration records. It was identified by the INS, but the actual file came
from the NARA. (Liba was never naturalization.) She entered the US twice and
this file was >from her second entry (she may have have even an earlier entry
around 1900 going to Philadelphia according to her 1931 entry when she had
been granted permanent residency status. For whatever reason (she claimed
illness of a 'daughter' - unnamed of course) she returned to Poland (where
she attended the wedding of a 'daughter' - unnamed of course) and supposedly
sold her interest in a shoe 'factory' in Sosnowiec. However apparently she
did this without 'permission' >from the US government and was only granted
temporary vista status on her return in 1932. The file I received was
generated >from this 'second' entry. So *where* is the first part?
*obviously* there is a previous record (or records). Where are the documents
applying for (apparently started by her daughter, Bertha/Brucha Lieberman
Blumenfeld as a US citizen) permanent residency and the approval?

One problem is surnames especially of women. Liba had seven children, one
Liberman (Bertha), five Kalkopf (including my grandmother) and one
Freymorgen (Syliva Zissel who immigrated in 1939). The birth range is from
1901 to 1923. When Liba came to the US in 1931/2, she used the surname
Kalkopf though her last husband was supposedly Moshie Freymorgen. By
accident I found the entry of her youngest child Bertha. I checked on the
Ellis Island site for Lentzner. Bertha entered in 1911 with her 'uncle'
Adolph Lentzner of St. Louis, MO. Her relative back in "Poland" was "Mother:
Lube Lentzner Stekocin, Russia". Of course previously I had been looking for
a "Bertha" Lieberman.

The file I did receive (after ten years), does contain useful information.
With mention of the 'daughters', etc., it does mention specific relatives
such as her siblings who also came to the US (David, Herman, Chaim, Rose)
and one who did not (Golda who married a Grinbaum). Liba was interviewed in
the presence of a stenographer and translator. So there is a written record
of the interview. I still do not know exactly who the 'uncle' Adolph is. I
do know that he was married to Mary Nudelman and they had chidlren, three of
whom ended up in California.

But the point is that the INS *is* a source. You just have to keep trying.

Michael McTeer
29 Palms, CA
mcteer@mailandnews.com
(archival purposes)
Jews in Shanghai #general

Vivian Kaplan <vkaplan@...>
 

Thanks to all those who corresponded with me over the past few years. I
asked for help in the research of my book and I am glad to say that it is
now published and out in print. The publisher's website for anyone who is
interested is www.rbstudiobooks.com and then click to "Ten Green Bottles"
which is the title of the book.

If anyone would like to ask me about the story,my email address is
vkaplan@rogers.com . The book is about my mother's life story, her
traumatic time in Vienna up to and including the pogrom of Kristallnacht and
then the family's flight to Shanghai where they spent ten years during and
following the war.

I appreciate all the interest.

Vivian Kaplan
458321 - 458340 of 654740  
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