Date   

GOLDSCHMIDT family #general

Esther Goldschmidt <esthergoldschmidt@...>
 

Hallo,

my english is not very good it is difficult for me to write and speak
correctly. But I want to give you some informations about my familiy in
germany.Maybe some people in the USA are interresting to find us.

I am Erika Goldschmidt born 25.02.1951 in Herne Germany
doughter >from Artur Goldschmidt born in Madfeld / Brilon
in Germany in the year 1904 on 29.07. His parents were Hermann Goldschmidt and Fanni Goldschmidt geb.
Mansberg.

His grandparents were Josef Goldschmidt and Rosa Goldschmidt.
They lived also in Madfeld. My father had brothers and sisters . Some of
them went to Chicago (They were married and the surnames were Berger and
Filz ) and in other towns in USA. I think they are dead.

But they also have children and I would be happy if I can find my
family in USA.

Thank you very much
Erika Esther Goldschmidt

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately


Naming after the living makes genealaogy tough #general

Babette C Bloch <bvcb@...>
 

I can attest to the fact that the Sephardic practic of naming after the
living, can in a few generations make genealogical searches a real
challenge!

In my grandfather's family in England, there are multiple instances of
the same first name in a given generation, some of them born in the same
year. they had large families in the 1880's and sometimes half the
siblings would name children after the same grandfather, who was living
when the grand children were born.

At family gatherings, I was told, they would wear name tags designating
WHICH Charles S...... they were..."The Caterer S...." or the "Umbrella
S....", etc.

Talk about jigsaw puzzles! <g>

Babette Bloch


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen GOLDSCHMIDT family #general

Esther Goldschmidt <esthergoldschmidt@...>
 

Hallo,

my english is not very good it is difficult for me to write and speak
correctly. But I want to give you some informations about my familiy in
germany.Maybe some people in the USA are interresting to find us.

I am Erika Goldschmidt born 25.02.1951 in Herne Germany
doughter >from Artur Goldschmidt born in Madfeld / Brilon
in Germany in the year 1904 on 29.07. His parents were Hermann Goldschmidt and Fanni Goldschmidt geb.
Mansberg.

His grandparents were Josef Goldschmidt and Rosa Goldschmidt.
They lived also in Madfeld. My father had brothers and sisters . Some of
them went to Chicago (They were married and the surnames were Berger and
Filz ) and in other towns in USA. I think they are dead.

But they also have children and I would be happy if I can find my
family in USA.

Thank you very much
Erika Esther Goldschmidt

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Naming after the living makes genealaogy tough #general

Babette C Bloch <bvcb@...>
 

I can attest to the fact that the Sephardic practic of naming after the
living, can in a few generations make genealogical searches a real
challenge!

In my grandfather's family in England, there are multiple instances of
the same first name in a given generation, some of them born in the same
year. they had large families in the 1880's and sometimes half the
siblings would name children after the same grandfather, who was living
when the grand children were born.

At family gatherings, I was told, they would wear name tags designating
WHICH Charles S...... they were..."The Caterer S...." or the "Umbrella
S....", etc.

Talk about jigsaw puzzles! <g>

Babette Bloch


Re: naming after the living #general

tom klein <jewishgen@...>
 

i believe haviva langenauer's example is not quite correct:
although some people may do so, it is not
sephardic custom to name a child after their
living father - rather it is customary to
name a child for his grandfather.
in the example given, the baby would be named
"yakov BEN yosef", and his father wouid be
"yosef BEN yakov", and the grandfather would be
"yakov BEN yosef" ,etc.
the reversal is just because of the alternating
generations.

this makes tracing family lineages easier in one respect,
but it's very important to watch the birthdates.

tom klein, toronto

"Haviva Langenauer" <havival@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Dear Genners, The time has come to make a distinction between custom,
superstition, and law in Judaism. In Sephardic circles it is an honor
to name a child after a living relative. Often the name is reversed
so that the new baby is Yakov Yosef after a father named Yosef Yakov.
This is a tradition.
[snip!]

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer, Ph.D. Palm Beach, Florida


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: naming after the living #general

tom klein <jewishgen@...>
 

i believe haviva langenauer's example is not quite correct:
although some people may do so, it is not
sephardic custom to name a child after their
living father - rather it is customary to
name a child for his grandfather.
in the example given, the baby would be named
"yakov BEN yosef", and his father wouid be
"yosef BEN yakov", and the grandfather would be
"yakov BEN yosef" ,etc.
the reversal is just because of the alternating
generations.

this makes tracing family lineages easier in one respect,
but it's very important to watch the birthdates.

tom klein, toronto

"Haviva Langenauer" <havival@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Dear Genners, The time has come to make a distinction between custom,
superstition, and law in Judaism. In Sephardic circles it is an honor
to name a child after a living relative. Often the name is reversed
so that the new baby is Yakov Yosef after a father named Yosef Yakov.
This is a tradition.
[snip!]

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer, Ph.D. Palm Beach, Florida


Re: Naming after the living--correction #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 1/17/2003 2:07:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sallybru@wdcunet.net writes:

<< Western European Ashkenazi and Sephardi name babies after living or dead
ancestors-the first son is named after the father's father, the second after
the mother's father. The first daughter is named after the father's mother,
the second after the mother's mother. Then aunts' and uncles' names are
usually used. If your gr grandfather or his second wife were >from Germany,
they would think nothing of naming a baby after a living person. >>

==Please allow me to make a slight correction. I am rather familiar with
German Jewish naming patterns and have somewhat more than one German Jewish
ancestor--plus quite a few who lived in Western European countries other than
Germany.

==German Jews did not name children "after" a living ancestor. That was as
much a non-no as it was in Eastern Europe. Nor was there a hard-and-fast rule
about whom children were named after ; it was something worked out by the
parents on the basis of those who had died, those who had already had a child
named after them, the social or rabbinic standing of an ancestor, whose side
of the family needed appeasement and so on--and often on the basis of a
relative who had died in the months immediately preceding the birth.

==There are two reasons why some mistakenly assume that children were named
AFTER a certain living person.
1. In Western European countries it was the official civil (not Jewish) rule
that Jews without specific surnames had their fathers' names tacked on after
their own. My oldest recorded ancestor in the direct male line was Suessel
Hirsch; all his children had Suesslein tacked on their names: Hirsch
Suesslein, Salomon Suesslein, Mandel Suesslein, Elkan Suesslein and so on.
Hirsch's son Suesslein was called Suesslein Hirsch, Salomon's son might be
names Suesslein Salomon and so on. This was very close to the Hebrew naming
system where the word for "son of" (Heb. "ben," Aramaic "bar" would be placed
between the name of the son and of the father. This pattern often continued
for a generation or so after family names were acquired; often these family
names were the names of the father, e.g. my ancestor Baruch, son of Wolff
took the full official name Baruch WOLFF. Again, though the second part of
their name was that of their father, it remained the father's personal name
and was never the son's personal name.

2. There was no rule about giving someone the same first name as that of a
living person. In my mother's family there were many ancestors named Leo and
many named Jonas. As a result my mother had nearly a dozen cousins named
Jonas (her grandfather had 16 children) and another dozen named Leo. She
also had a brother named Jonas; the only reason why she didn't have a brother
Leo was that she had only one brother.

from about 1850, with the spread of reform Judaism and a giving up of
traditions, some Jews in Germany (and France and Hungary and the United
States . . . were less concerned about jewish traditions and here or there a
child might even be given the father's name, but it was relatively rare and
cannot be said to have been part of a style or subject to a rule.

It warms my heart to see how Jewishgenners are eager to help fellow genners
understand their anestry but we should all be careful not to simply repeat as
if true stories that we have not properly learned or studied.

Michael Bernet,
New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Naming after the living--correction #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 1/17/2003 2:07:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sallybru@wdcunet.net writes:

<< Western European Ashkenazi and Sephardi name babies after living or dead
ancestors-the first son is named after the father's father, the second after
the mother's father. The first daughter is named after the father's mother,
the second after the mother's mother. Then aunts' and uncles' names are
usually used. If your gr grandfather or his second wife were >from Germany,
they would think nothing of naming a baby after a living person. >>

==Please allow me to make a slight correction. I am rather familiar with
German Jewish naming patterns and have somewhat more than one German Jewish
ancestor--plus quite a few who lived in Western European countries other than
Germany.

==German Jews did not name children "after" a living ancestor. That was as
much a non-no as it was in Eastern Europe. Nor was there a hard-and-fast rule
about whom children were named after ; it was something worked out by the
parents on the basis of those who had died, those who had already had a child
named after them, the social or rabbinic standing of an ancestor, whose side
of the family needed appeasement and so on--and often on the basis of a
relative who had died in the months immediately preceding the birth.

==There are two reasons why some mistakenly assume that children were named
AFTER a certain living person.
1. In Western European countries it was the official civil (not Jewish) rule
that Jews without specific surnames had their fathers' names tacked on after
their own. My oldest recorded ancestor in the direct male line was Suessel
Hirsch; all his children had Suesslein tacked on their names: Hirsch
Suesslein, Salomon Suesslein, Mandel Suesslein, Elkan Suesslein and so on.
Hirsch's son Suesslein was called Suesslein Hirsch, Salomon's son might be
names Suesslein Salomon and so on. This was very close to the Hebrew naming
system where the word for "son of" (Heb. "ben," Aramaic "bar" would be placed
between the name of the son and of the father. This pattern often continued
for a generation or so after family names were acquired; often these family
names were the names of the father, e.g. my ancestor Baruch, son of Wolff
took the full official name Baruch WOLFF. Again, though the second part of
their name was that of their father, it remained the father's personal name
and was never the son's personal name.

2. There was no rule about giving someone the same first name as that of a
living person. In my mother's family there were many ancestors named Leo and
many named Jonas. As a result my mother had nearly a dozen cousins named
Jonas (her grandfather had 16 children) and another dozen named Leo. She
also had a brother named Jonas; the only reason why she didn't have a brother
Leo was that she had only one brother.

from about 1850, with the spread of reform Judaism and a giving up of
traditions, some Jews in Germany (and France and Hungary and the United
States . . . were less concerned about jewish traditions and here or there a
child might even be given the father's name, but it was relatively rare and
cannot be said to have been part of a style or subject to a rule.

It warms my heart to see how Jewishgenners are eager to help fellow genners
understand their anestry but we should all be careful not to simply repeat as
if true stories that we have not properly learned or studied.

Michael Bernet,
New York


Re: FRAENCKEL #general

Elsebeth Paikin
 

At 21:41 13-12-2002 -0800, Pam Goslin wrote:
I'm interested in finding information on some FRAENCKEL's >from Hamburg,
Germany, an Esther and Ernestine, both of whom(?) married a Michael LEFFMANN
...snip...
I can't find any of them in "Genealogical Tables of Jewish
Families 14th - 20th Centuries Forgotten Fragments of the
History of the Fraenkel Family" Saur Verlag, 1999.

However, I am working on a Danish Jewish Family Tree for the
Danish Jewish Museum (and of course also for the Scandinavia
SIG), so I am working my way through all the records available
as well as the printed genealogies, so maybe something will
turn up.

Schleswig-Holstein belonged to the Danish kings until 1864, so
some information on for instance Altona, Rendsburg, Ottensen,
Friedrichstadt might be found in Denmark.

So if you could give me some more detailed information, I will
see what I can find.

Best regards

Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark
Coordinator & webmaster of JewishGen's
SCANDINAVIA SIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/scandinavia
http://home.worldonline.dk/~epaikin/
mailto:elsebeth@paikin.dk


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: FRAENCKEL #general

Elsebeth Paikin
 

At 21:41 13-12-2002 -0800, Pam Goslin wrote:
I'm interested in finding information on some FRAENCKEL's >from Hamburg,
Germany, an Esther and Ernestine, both of whom(?) married a Michael LEFFMANN
...snip...
I can't find any of them in "Genealogical Tables of Jewish
Families 14th - 20th Centuries Forgotten Fragments of the
History of the Fraenkel Family" Saur Verlag, 1999.

However, I am working on a Danish Jewish Family Tree for the
Danish Jewish Museum (and of course also for the Scandinavia
SIG), so I am working my way through all the records available
as well as the printed genealogies, so maybe something will
turn up.

Schleswig-Holstein belonged to the Danish kings until 1864, so
some information on for instance Altona, Rendsburg, Ottensen,
Friedrichstadt might be found in Denmark.

So if you could give me some more detailed information, I will
see what I can find.

Best regards

Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark
Coordinator & webmaster of JewishGen's
SCANDINAVIA SIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/scandinavia
http://home.worldonline.dk/~epaikin/
mailto:elsebeth@paikin.dk


Surname ALK #lithuania

BABYCAT3@...
 

I found listings for Elkon, Mina and Rachela ALK in the Vilnius Ghetto on the Jewishgen Holocaust Database. I am wondering if anyone else has any of these names in their research. My guess is the Rachela is the wife and there is no maiden name given for her. Mina appears to be a child.
Any info welcomed.

Thank you.
Barbara Meyers
Stanhope, NJ
babycat3@aol.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately with family information.


Kupisker Society in Johannesburg, 1947 #lithuania

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

This is to let you all know that a new photo has been added to the Kupishok, Lithuania ShtetLink Site on JewishGen. It is of the Kupisker Society in Johannesburg in 1947. The photo was taken on the occasion of the visit of Rabbi Ephraim Oshry and his wife to South Africa. The photo is accompanied by a table which lists the names of all the attendees (where known).

I hope those of you who are either related to or descended >from Kupishokers
will look at the site as well as those who are >from Johannesburg and might
recognize some of the attendees in the photo.

Please let me know if you recognize someone who has an unknown by their
name.

The photo can be viewed by going to the following address:

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/kupiskis/kupishok.htm

Then, click on Kupisker Society.

Thanks,
Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Surname ALK #lithuania

BABYCAT3@...
 

I found listings for Elkon, Mina and Rachela ALK in the Vilnius Ghetto on the Jewishgen Holocaust Database. I am wondering if anyone else has any of these names in their research. My guess is the Rachela is the wife and there is no maiden name given for her. Mina appears to be a child.
Any info welcomed.

Thank you.
Barbara Meyers
Stanhope, NJ
babycat3@aol.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately with family information.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Kupisker Society in Johannesburg, 1947 #lithuania

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

This is to let you all know that a new photo has been added to the Kupishok, Lithuania ShtetLink Site on JewishGen. It is of the Kupisker Society in Johannesburg in 1947. The photo was taken on the occasion of the visit of Rabbi Ephraim Oshry and his wife to South Africa. The photo is accompanied by a table which lists the names of all the attendees (where known).

I hope those of you who are either related to or descended >from Kupishokers
will look at the site as well as those who are >from Johannesburg and might
recognize some of the attendees in the photo.

Please let me know if you recognize someone who has an unknown by their
name.

The photo can be viewed by going to the following address:

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/kupiskis/kupishok.htm

Then, click on Kupisker Society.

Thanks,
Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


Looking for Janos MERVAY and wife #ukraine

DUMAY, Jocelyne
 

Janos MERVAY was born in 1906 and died in 1986 ; perhaps is he a relative of
my gfather named Henri MERVAY and born in Paris in 1898, son of Armand
Mervay born in 1867 ; perhaps, he is buried in the cemetery of Beregovo. If
anybody knows it exists lists of buried persons in this cemetery, thank you.

Jocelyne Dumay
Paris


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Looking for Janos MERVAY and wife #ukraine

DUMAY, Jocelyne
 

Janos MERVAY was born in 1906 and died in 1986 ; perhaps is he a relative of
my gfather named Henri MERVAY and born in Paris in 1898, son of Armand
Mervay born in 1867 ; perhaps, he is buried in the cemetery of Beregovo. If
anybody knows it exists lists of buried persons in this cemetery, thank you.

Jocelyne Dumay
Paris


Useful Site - Rabbinical Eulogies #rabbinic

Chaim freedman
 

I highly recommend the following site which has eulogies and
biographies of many rabbis:

Gedolim of Recent and Past Generations:
http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
mailto:chaimjan@zahav.net.il


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Useful Site - Rabbinical Eulogies #rabbinic

Chaim freedman
 

I highly recommend the following site which has eulogies and
biographies of many rabbis:

Gedolim of Recent and Past Generations:
http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
mailto:chaimjan@zahav.net.il


Re: France: A city--"La Machine (Nievre)" #general

Lifshitz-Krams Anne
 


Does anyone know where the city of "La Machine" is? And perhaps is Nievre
a
province or locality?

Dan
........................................................
=== La Machine is a small town in departement Nievre (Center of France)
postal code: 58260

As Juliette Jourdan was born in 1906 you will probably not obtain a complete
birth act before 2006.

Cordially

Anne Lifshitz-Krams
CGJ Paris France


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: France: A city--"La Machine (Nievre)" #general

Lifshitz-Krams Anne
 


Does anyone know where the city of "La Machine" is? And perhaps is Nievre
a
province or locality?

Dan
........................................................
=== La Machine is a small town in departement Nievre (Center of France)
postal code: 58260

As Juliette Jourdan was born in 1906 you will probably not obtain a complete
birth act before 2006.

Cordially

Anne Lifshitz-Krams
CGJ Paris France