Date   

Searching HOCHGLIK, HOCHGLICK, HOJGLIK #poland

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

We are posting this message on behalf of Ricardo Keizman. The message was
received in Spanish. This is the translation:

<< My mother Elka Gitla HOJGLIK [Spanish spelling for HOCHGLIK] lived in
Warsaw with my father Jose (Yosef) KEIZMAN. They arrived in Argentina in
1924 with three daughters: Aida, Clara and Sara. My brother and I were
born in Argentina. Her father's name was Moshe Elie, born in 1860 and had
five children:
- Helen, who was born in 1882, emigrated to the USA.
- Yechiel was born in 1885 and remained in Europe.
- Elka Gitla, my mother.
- Toby, remained in Poland
- Rachmil, born in 1901. He married Rushia and had they had a son Zigmund
who was born in 1925. They remained in Poland

Until now that is all that I have been able to gather. My mother only used
to say that all the family had been murdered by the Nazis, and my father
did not speak about Poland, perhaps because of the bad memories he had.

I would also like to contact the descendants of my mother's sister Helen
HOCHGLICK in the USA.
I thank you for any help you can give me.

Ricardo Keizman
Buenos Aires, Argentina >>

If you can help Ricardo his search, please reply to
< sbloch@jewishgen.org>

Thank You.

Susana Leistner Bloch
Project Manager
JewishGen International Desk


JRI Poland #Poland Searching HOCHGLIK, HOCHGLICK, HOJGLIK #poland

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

We are posting this message on behalf of Ricardo Keizman. The message was
received in Spanish. This is the translation:

<< My mother Elka Gitla HOJGLIK [Spanish spelling for HOCHGLIK] lived in
Warsaw with my father Jose (Yosef) KEIZMAN. They arrived in Argentina in
1924 with three daughters: Aida, Clara and Sara. My brother and I were
born in Argentina. Her father's name was Moshe Elie, born in 1860 and had
five children:
- Helen, who was born in 1882, emigrated to the USA.
- Yechiel was born in 1885 and remained in Europe.
- Elka Gitla, my mother.
- Toby, remained in Poland
- Rachmil, born in 1901. He married Rushia and had they had a son Zigmund
who was born in 1925. They remained in Poland

Until now that is all that I have been able to gather. My mother only used
to say that all the family had been murdered by the Nazis, and my father
did not speak about Poland, perhaps because of the bad memories he had.

I would also like to contact the descendants of my mother's sister Helen
HOCHGLICK in the USA.
I thank you for any help you can give me.

Ricardo Keizman
Buenos Aires, Argentina >>

If you can help Ricardo his search, please reply to
< sbloch@jewishgen.org>

Thank You.

Susana Leistner Bloch
Project Manager
JewishGen International Desk


Ellis Island question #general

Robert Fraser <rwfgjf@...>
 

Maria is a typically Catholic name (although related to Miriam which is an
equally typical Jewish name), but I don't think one can infer >from the
name "Maria" that the lady in question might not have been Jewish. A great-
grandmother of mine had the given name of Magdalene - but she certainly
was Jewish. What's in a name?

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
rwfgjf@iinet.net.au

-----Original Message-----
From: MBernet@aol.com [mailto:MBernet@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 3:12 AM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Ellis Island question

<< I found the following on the Ellis Island website while
looking for my grandmother, Maria May: "Ungarian German chg >from
Hebrew". I e-mailed the site, but they did not reply. Can anyone tell
me what this means? >>

==I can make a guess: she was listed originally (on the ship's
manifest?)as "Hebrew" and asked to have it changed to Hungarian-German.
Ungarn is the German word for Hungary. I notice the name Maria, a form that
was anathema for many European Jews; is it possible she was not Jewish?

Michael Bernet,
New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ellis Island question #general

Robert Fraser <rwfgjf@...>
 

Maria is a typically Catholic name (although related to Miriam which is an
equally typical Jewish name), but I don't think one can infer >from the
name "Maria" that the lady in question might not have been Jewish. A great-
grandmother of mine had the given name of Magdalene - but she certainly
was Jewish. What's in a name?

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
rwfgjf@iinet.net.au

-----Original Message-----
From: MBernet@aol.com [mailto:MBernet@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 3:12 AM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Ellis Island question

<< I found the following on the Ellis Island website while
looking for my grandmother, Maria May: "Ungarian German chg >from
Hebrew". I e-mailed the site, but they did not reply. Can anyone tell
me what this means? >>

==I can make a guess: she was listed originally (on the ship's
manifest?)as "Hebrew" and asked to have it changed to Hungarian-German.
Ungarn is the German word for Hungary. I notice the name Maria, a form that
was anathema for many European Jews; is it possible she was not Jewish?

Michael Bernet,
New York


Re: Unreliability of death certificate information #general

janmallen@...
 

Dear Roberta and JewishGenners:

Roberta Sheps recently posted an incident in her family where information
on the death record of her aunt was erroneously given to the authorities
by the decedents son. Roberta also said she had not heard of death
certificates requiring the place of birth of the deceased on the
certificate.

I can tell you in California that place of birth of deceased's parents are
required fields of information. I know when my father died a few years ago
the funeral chapel thought they were being helpful and "created" answers to
many of the questions rather than "bother" me. When I saw the final
product >from the state -the death certificate- I was not happy. I required
the funeral chapel to send in the required correction form to the State of
California- there were 6 errors- and while it took a while there is now an
amended death certificate. Most people not interested in genealogy would
not take the time to correct such items as where the deceased's parents
were born; occupation of the deceased etc,

We should all be aware that the information on the certificate is a guide
for us and not necessary 100% accurate! The informant may be to grieved to
remember certain information; not know it and assume certain facts; or the
funeral chapel may be "helpful".

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unreliability of death certificate information #general

janmallen@...
 

Dear Roberta and JewishGenners:

Roberta Sheps recently posted an incident in her family where information
on the death record of her aunt was erroneously given to the authorities
by the decedents son. Roberta also said she had not heard of death
certificates requiring the place of birth of the deceased on the
certificate.

I can tell you in California that place of birth of deceased's parents are
required fields of information. I know when my father died a few years ago
the funeral chapel thought they were being helpful and "created" answers to
many of the questions rather than "bother" me. When I saw the final
product >from the state -the death certificate- I was not happy. I required
the funeral chapel to send in the required correction form to the State of
California- there were 6 errors- and while it took a while there is now an
amended death certificate. Most people not interested in genealogy would
not take the time to correct such items as where the deceased's parents
were born; occupation of the deceased etc,

We should all be aware that the information on the certificate is a guide
for us and not necessary 100% accurate! The informant may be to grieved to
remember certain information; not know it and assume certain facts; or the
funeral chapel may be "helpful".

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA


Re: Hertzberg-Cohen Wedding #latvia

Barry Graham <barry@...>
 

Dane HERZBERG (male) born in Bauske had a son Leib HERZBERG born in 1883 in
the same place, who married Chaie FALKSON who was born in 1880. They were
married on March 5th 1915 in Libau, Latvia. I do not have any record of
their descendants, unfortunately I have made no connection with any of their
descendants, I don't even know where they moved to.

Also Ahron FALKSON, born 1825 in Sassmacken, Latvia, married Liebe HERZBERG
and I am in touch with this part of the family, living in the USA and South
Africa. I do not know if Liebe was related to Leib and Dane.

Elias HERZBERG (again I do not know if he was connected to the other
HERZBERGs) married Liebe FALKSON who was born in 1856. They were married in
Tuckum, Latvia on April 19th 1877, and again, unfortunately, I have no
knowledge of what happened to them.

Barry Graham
Monsey, NY, USA
Researching (among others) HERZBERG, BLUMENTHAL, FALKSON


Latvia SIG #Latvia RE: Hertzberg-Cohen Wedding #latvia

Barry Graham <barry@...>
 

Dane HERZBERG (male) born in Bauske had a son Leib HERZBERG born in 1883 in
the same place, who married Chaie FALKSON who was born in 1880. They were
married on March 5th 1915 in Libau, Latvia. I do not have any record of
their descendants, unfortunately I have made no connection with any of their
descendants, I don't even know where they moved to.

Also Ahron FALKSON, born 1825 in Sassmacken, Latvia, married Liebe HERZBERG
and I am in touch with this part of the family, living in the USA and South
Africa. I do not know if Liebe was related to Leib and Dane.

Elias HERZBERG (again I do not know if he was connected to the other
HERZBERGs) married Liebe FALKSON who was born in 1856. They were married in
Tuckum, Latvia on April 19th 1877, and again, unfortunately, I have no
knowledge of what happened to them.

Barry Graham
Monsey, NY, USA
Researching (among others) HERZBERG, BLUMENTHAL, FALKSON


Re: Unreliability of death-related documents #general

David Edelman <pappapeach43@...>
 

Dear Roberta, and all others;

Even if the information was supplied by the named individual themselves,
does not mean the information is nescerary correct either.
For one of my grandfathers, on his marrage certificate (when he was
obviouslly still very much alive), it shows he was >from Greece. On his
death certificate, which he had nothing to do with, it shows him as being
Russian. Both the same person, and both with the same incorrect name!

So, how do I prove, once I get his birth record >from Poland, that this is
in fact the same person?! All that I have is one letter that his son (my
uncle) wrote me, telling me about the name switch. Remember, many of us
have ancesters, especially the males, who were fleeing the old country,
and would say anything once here just to get in. No one here would know,
so why not?

I may never learn why his marrage certificate (issued in New York) says he
is >from Greece, unless he went there first before coming here. Some
history, I guess, just get burried with the history maker, which is what
is great about this, trying to solve those kinds of puzzles.

David Edelman
San Francisco.
Researching:
EDELMAN; DUNN; STEIN; FEINSTEIN; ROSENBERG: Latvia.
FREIDENBER: Poland
ALLEN; London.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Roberta Sheps <roberta.sheps@ntlworld.com>
Reply-To: Roberta Sheps <roberta.sheps@ntlworld.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: Unreliability of death-related documents
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:37:29 +0000

Dear Friends,

Having just lost an aunt in Canada (I being in England) I have encountered
a perfect example of how and why death-related documents should always be
treated with caution.

I phoned my aunt's son in Vancouver and offered my sympathy. After we
talked for a while I asked if, when he was going through her papers, he
found anything relating to our grandparents' emigration, he would send
me a copy. At this point he realised that I might know more about our
grandparents than he did and asked if I knew where they were born, as he
had to provide this information for his mother's death certificate. (As
an aside, can anybody in BC tell me whether or not this is correct?
I've never heard of the birthplace of the deceased's parents being
required for a death certificate.)

I gave him the information, after which he told me that he had already
given information to the relevant official, but that he had said that
both of them had been born in the Ukraine. This was incorrect, as my
grandmother was born near Vilnius. He said he'd call them to correct
the error, if it wasn't too late.

So, if he doesn't correct it, sometime in the future, some eager
genealogist in the family, who will not realise that I am the source and
font of all knowledge, may order my aunt's death certificate, read the
incorrect entry, and perpetuate the error.

Beware: two generations on, official in a hurry, informant ignorant of
the facts and in a distressed state, result incorrect official document.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England (born in Winnipeg, Canada)
Searching:
COHEN, KLAIMON, GROSSMAN, SPIVAK, PORTIGAL: Talna/Kiev (Ukraine);
BELOVITSKY(I), BELOV/BELOFF/BELL: (Popishok/Popiskes), Lithuania/
Montreal; YAFFE: Wiliez, nr Disna, Vilna Gubernia/ Winnipeg/ Montreal/
North Dakota; SHEPS, KRASNOW AND POTASHNIKOW: Odessa area


Re: Unreliability of death-related documents #general

hennynow
 

Roberta Sheps was surprised that the birthplace of a decedent's parents
was shown on a death certificate. I can tell her and all interested
Genners that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the United States shows
the following queries on its standard certificate of death (at least in my
father-in-law's document in 1948):

#13. Name of Father
#14. Birthplace of Father (City).......(State or country)........
#15. Maiden name of Mother
#16. Birthplace of Mother (City)......(State or country)........

However, my father's New York City, New York, USA, 1962 death certificate
only asks for the name of the father of the decedent and the maiden name
of the mother of the decedent.

For those JewishGenners not resident in the United States of America, let
me point out that vital records are kept by the governments of the fifty
states, not by the federal government. This is why one finds different
requirements.

And, yes, Roberta, I also have found many inaccuracies or omissions
regarding family members in official death certificates.

Henny
Henriette Moed Roth
Los Angeles, California
hennynow@pacbell.net


Re: Dortmund death certificates #general

Stephen G. Esrati <stevsta@...>
 

Anita Springer wrote:

Direct-line descendants can get a copy of a death certificate >from Germany
by writing to the town Standesamt for years after 1874. Copies cost 7 EU
each and they take cash. I have gotten Euros >from my local bank. You can
find the address for a town hall (standesamt) in Germany by looking in the
on-line German phone book, www.teleauskunft.de. Many towns also have
websites. It would be something like www.dortmund.de

Anita Springer, Boston

MODERATOR NOTE: That is indeed the official website of the city of
Dortmund.

I have found the Dortmund registry office (Standesamt) extremely helpful
in matters genealogical. My father was born in Dortmund and I sought
information about his parents, Alwin HIRSCH and Clara GOTTSCHALK HIRSCH.

Frau Kappmeyer wrote me and gave my grandparents' marriage date, their
birth dates, and the names of their parents (Julie GOTTSCHALK, nee
LEWIN and the merchant Jakob GOTTSCHALK).

She then added the date and place of birth of Julie GOTTSCHALK. She said
that up to 1905 her parents (Simon and Buenchen LEWIN) still lived in
Dortmund and no date of death could be ascertained for either of them.

She expanded on this by saying that Julie was Jakob's second wife,
referring to the marriage to Golda OSTER but said the date of marriage
could not be ascertained.

And on and on. It was a wonderful addition to my family tree.

Stephen G. Esrati
Searching for Alwin HIRSCH (Berlin and Dortmund) and Max Hirsch (Berlin)


Photos from the past - a new site #general

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

This is an interesting site:
Photographs >from the Past
http://photographsfromthepast.com/

It functions a bit like ViewMate but is fully dedicated to feature photos
to be identified. The people shown in these photographs are mysteries to
those who have contributed them to the site. Maybe a relative you were not
aware about

Enjoy
Tom Venetianer


Best way to get Naturalization & Military Discharge Papers? #general

Polina <polina-olsen@...>
 

Hi,

I found a few treasures today and wondered if someone could give me ideas
on where to get further information.

1. Where is the best place to get naturalization information for the
Southern District Court of New York?
The U.S. Certificate of Naturalization is dated Jan 17, 1911. I have a NYC
address, a name, and a few numbers but I'm not sure what the numbers mean.
The main number says 182102 and I can also see petition volume 27 page 91.
There is also volume <can't read> 77763 page 2?

2. I also found military discharge papers >from WWI and wondered if I could
work back to military records and the original draft registration form.
Does anyone know where I'd write? The discharge papers say:

Headquarters Central Dept. Chicago, Ill
1st Lieutenant Maurice Jacob Silver
Medical Corp
April 20, 1919
Fort Levenworth, Kansas

Thank you very much for any help with this.

Best Regards,

Polina Olsen
Portland, Oregon
Polina-Olsen@attbi.com


WEXLER, Pearl #general

Alan Steinfeld <poohtoes@...>
 

Searching for relatives of Pearl WEXLER, born in New York City in 1925.

Alan Steinfeld
poohtoes@erols.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unreliability of death-related documents #general

David Edelman <pappapeach43@...>
 

Dear Roberta, and all others;

Even if the information was supplied by the named individual themselves,
does not mean the information is nescerary correct either.
For one of my grandfathers, on his marrage certificate (when he was
obviouslly still very much alive), it shows he was >from Greece. On his
death certificate, which he had nothing to do with, it shows him as being
Russian. Both the same person, and both with the same incorrect name!

So, how do I prove, once I get his birth record >from Poland, that this is
in fact the same person?! All that I have is one letter that his son (my
uncle) wrote me, telling me about the name switch. Remember, many of us
have ancesters, especially the males, who were fleeing the old country,
and would say anything once here just to get in. No one here would know,
so why not?

I may never learn why his marrage certificate (issued in New York) says he
is >from Greece, unless he went there first before coming here. Some
history, I guess, just get burried with the history maker, which is what
is great about this, trying to solve those kinds of puzzles.

David Edelman
San Francisco.
Researching:
EDELMAN; DUNN; STEIN; FEINSTEIN; ROSENBERG: Latvia.
FREIDENBER: Poland
ALLEN; London.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Roberta Sheps <roberta.sheps@ntlworld.com>
Reply-To: Roberta Sheps <roberta.sheps@ntlworld.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: Unreliability of death-related documents
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:37:29 +0000

Dear Friends,

Having just lost an aunt in Canada (I being in England) I have encountered
a perfect example of how and why death-related documents should always be
treated with caution.

I phoned my aunt's son in Vancouver and offered my sympathy. After we
talked for a while I asked if, when he was going through her papers, he
found anything relating to our grandparents' emigration, he would send
me a copy. At this point he realised that I might know more about our
grandparents than he did and asked if I knew where they were born, as he
had to provide this information for his mother's death certificate. (As
an aside, can anybody in BC tell me whether or not this is correct?
I've never heard of the birthplace of the deceased's parents being
required for a death certificate.)

I gave him the information, after which he told me that he had already
given information to the relevant official, but that he had said that
both of them had been born in the Ukraine. This was incorrect, as my
grandmother was born near Vilnius. He said he'd call them to correct
the error, if it wasn't too late.

So, if he doesn't correct it, sometime in the future, some eager
genealogist in the family, who will not realise that I am the source and
font of all knowledge, may order my aunt's death certificate, read the
incorrect entry, and perpetuate the error.

Beware: two generations on, official in a hurry, informant ignorant of
the facts and in a distressed state, result incorrect official document.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England (born in Winnipeg, Canada)
Searching:
COHEN, KLAIMON, GROSSMAN, SPIVAK, PORTIGAL: Talna/Kiev (Ukraine);
BELOVITSKY(I), BELOV/BELOFF/BELL: (Popishok/Popiskes), Lithuania/
Montreal; YAFFE: Wiliez, nr Disna, Vilna Gubernia/ Winnipeg/ Montreal/
North Dakota; SHEPS, KRASNOW AND POTASHNIKOW: Odessa area


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unreliability of death-related documents #general

hennynow
 

Roberta Sheps was surprised that the birthplace of a decedent's parents
was shown on a death certificate. I can tell her and all interested
Genners that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the United States shows
the following queries on its standard certificate of death (at least in my
father-in-law's document in 1948):

#13. Name of Father
#14. Birthplace of Father (City).......(State or country)........
#15. Maiden name of Mother
#16. Birthplace of Mother (City)......(State or country)........

However, my father's New York City, New York, USA, 1962 death certificate
only asks for the name of the father of the decedent and the maiden name
of the mother of the decedent.

For those JewishGenners not resident in the United States of America, let
me point out that vital records are kept by the governments of the fifty
states, not by the federal government. This is why one finds different
requirements.

And, yes, Roberta, I also have found many inaccuracies or omissions
regarding family members in official death certificates.

Henny
Henriette Moed Roth
Los Angeles, California
hennynow@pacbell.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Dortmund death certificates #general

Stephen G. Esrati <stevsta@...>
 

Anita Springer wrote:

Direct-line descendants can get a copy of a death certificate >from Germany
by writing to the town Standesamt for years after 1874. Copies cost 7 EU
each and they take cash. I have gotten Euros >from my local bank. You can
find the address for a town hall (standesamt) in Germany by looking in the
on-line German phone book, www.teleauskunft.de. Many towns also have
websites. It would be something like www.dortmund.de

Anita Springer, Boston

MODERATOR NOTE: That is indeed the official website of the city of
Dortmund.

I have found the Dortmund registry office (Standesamt) extremely helpful
in matters genealogical. My father was born in Dortmund and I sought
information about his parents, Alwin HIRSCH and Clara GOTTSCHALK HIRSCH.

Frau Kappmeyer wrote me and gave my grandparents' marriage date, their
birth dates, and the names of their parents (Julie GOTTSCHALK, nee
LEWIN and the merchant Jakob GOTTSCHALK).

She then added the date and place of birth of Julie GOTTSCHALK. She said
that up to 1905 her parents (Simon and Buenchen LEWIN) still lived in
Dortmund and no date of death could be ascertained for either of them.

She expanded on this by saying that Julie was Jakob's second wife,
referring to the marriage to Golda OSTER but said the date of marriage
could not be ascertained.

And on and on. It was a wonderful addition to my family tree.

Stephen G. Esrati
Searching for Alwin HIRSCH (Berlin and Dortmund) and Max Hirsch (Berlin)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Photos from the past - a new site #general

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

This is an interesting site:
Photographs >from the Past
http://photographsfromthepast.com/

It functions a bit like ViewMate but is fully dedicated to feature photos
to be identified. The people shown in these photographs are mysteries to
those who have contributed them to the site. Maybe a relative you were not
aware about

Enjoy
Tom Venetianer


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Best way to get Naturalization & Military Discharge Papers? #general

Polina <polina-olsen@...>
 

Hi,

I found a few treasures today and wondered if someone could give me ideas
on where to get further information.

1. Where is the best place to get naturalization information for the
Southern District Court of New York?
The U.S. Certificate of Naturalization is dated Jan 17, 1911. I have a NYC
address, a name, and a few numbers but I'm not sure what the numbers mean.
The main number says 182102 and I can also see petition volume 27 page 91.
There is also volume <can't read> 77763 page 2?

2. I also found military discharge papers >from WWI and wondered if I could
work back to military records and the original draft registration form.
Does anyone know where I'd write? The discharge papers say:

Headquarters Central Dept. Chicago, Ill
1st Lieutenant Maurice Jacob Silver
Medical Corp
April 20, 1919
Fort Levenworth, Kansas

Thank you very much for any help with this.

Best Regards,

Polina Olsen
Portland, Oregon
Polina-Olsen@attbi.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WEXLER, Pearl #general

Alan Steinfeld <poohtoes@...>
 

Searching for relatives of Pearl WEXLER, born in New York City in 1925.

Alan Steinfeld
poohtoes@erols.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately.