Date   

Re: Abbreviation "D. Oest." #germany

Fritz Neubauer
 

Robert Rosenbaum schrieb:
On a couple Viennese residence declarations (Meldezettel) >from the year
1919, the space for place of birth (Geburtsort und -land) says "Wien D.
Öst." What does this 'D' stand for?
Dear Robert,
"D. Oest." stands for "Deutsch-Oesterreich" which was the official name
for the state that was left >from the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy after all
the rest of the non-German-Speaking parts had seceded and the Allies of
the First World War did not allow it to join Germany: German-Austria.

You can also see this name on postage stamps of the time. It was valid
from 1919 up to 1938.
Even in the Dachau files of 1938 the prisoners >from Austrian territory
after the Anschluss were described as "DOe", i.e. Deutsch-Oesterreich,
at least until the Nazis renamed the former Austrian territory "Ostmark".

After 1945 the Austrians tried to distance themselves >from anything
German, they dropped the "Deutsch-" and became the "Republik
Oesterreich" ("Republic of Austria"). This distancing >from German in
1945 went so far that the subject "German" in school was not allowed to
be called German (Deutsch) in the state schools - it was named
"Unterrichtssprache" ("Language of Instruction"). After a while this
idea disappeared ... With kind regards

Fritz Neubauer (who attended school during the "Unterrichtssprache"-time
in Austria), in North-German exile


German SIG #Germany Re: Abbreviation "D. Oest." #germany

Fritz Neubauer
 

Robert Rosenbaum schrieb:
On a couple Viennese residence declarations (Meldezettel) >from the year
1919, the space for place of birth (Geburtsort und -land) says "Wien D.
Öst." What does this 'D' stand for?
Dear Robert,
"D. Oest." stands for "Deutsch-Oesterreich" which was the official name
for the state that was left >from the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy after all
the rest of the non-German-Speaking parts had seceded and the Allies of
the First World War did not allow it to join Germany: German-Austria.

You can also see this name on postage stamps of the time. It was valid
from 1919 up to 1938.
Even in the Dachau files of 1938 the prisoners >from Austrian territory
after the Anschluss were described as "DOe", i.e. Deutsch-Oesterreich,
at least until the Nazis renamed the former Austrian territory "Ostmark".

After 1945 the Austrians tried to distance themselves >from anything
German, they dropped the "Deutsch-" and became the "Republik
Oesterreich" ("Republic of Austria"). This distancing >from German in
1945 went so far that the subject "German" in school was not allowed to
be called German (Deutsch) in the state schools - it was named
"Unterrichtssprache" ("Language of Instruction"). After a while this
idea disappeared ... With kind regards

Fritz Neubauer (who attended school during the "Unterrichtssprache"-time
in Austria), in North-German exile


look up requests and general advice #general

Annemarie Jutel <jutel@...>
 

Should anyone be following up Melanie Greenberg's suggestion to look for
naturalization papers in Chicago, could they take a look and see if
David Drozdowitz, immigrated in 1871 or in 1979 (depending on which
census you look at), is in the index? He may be accompanied by mother
and father Philip and Rosa (immigrated 1870 according to the 1900
census).

Also, I wonder if anyone can help me with David's cousin, Samuel
DROZDOWITZ. I am having troubles with the legibility of on-line census
records and cannot read his immigration date. He can be found in the
1910 census in Indianapolis (Marion County, Center Township,
Supervisor's district 7, enumeration district #142, Ward 8, Sheet #2A).
Will anyone have access to a hard copy, or a higher resolution digital
version?

And finally, may I ask how I will, once I have exact dates, use that
information to locate these folks on passenger lists? I have read the
page on the Jewgen website, but feel at a loss, given that I will never
have an exact date, only a year. How then does one operate? Do you
scan all the passenger lists in that year? Are there indexes by year
and by name?

Many thanks for your help.

Annemarie Jutel
Dunedin, NZ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen look up requests and general advice #general

Annemarie Jutel <jutel@...>
 

Should anyone be following up Melanie Greenberg's suggestion to look for
naturalization papers in Chicago, could they take a look and see if
David Drozdowitz, immigrated in 1871 or in 1979 (depending on which
census you look at), is in the index? He may be accompanied by mother
and father Philip and Rosa (immigrated 1870 according to the 1900
census).

Also, I wonder if anyone can help me with David's cousin, Samuel
DROZDOWITZ. I am having troubles with the legibility of on-line census
records and cannot read his immigration date. He can be found in the
1910 census in Indianapolis (Marion County, Center Township,
Supervisor's district 7, enumeration district #142, Ward 8, Sheet #2A).
Will anyone have access to a hard copy, or a higher resolution digital
version?

And finally, may I ask how I will, once I have exact dates, use that
information to locate these folks on passenger lists? I have read the
page on the Jewgen website, but feel at a loss, given that I will never
have an exact date, only a year. How then does one operate? Do you
scan all the passenger lists in that year? Are there indexes by year
and by name?

Many thanks for your help.

Annemarie Jutel
Dunedin, NZ


Re: SCHLESINGER Genealogy/DNA #general

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

John Hruszovsky wrote:

We are still trying to locate information on the surname Schlesinger which
goes back to Czechoslovakia in the late 1800's. One of our proven
relation was living on a "Schlesinger Majer" near Nove' Mesto,nad Va'hom,
Czechoslovakia (near Piestany) and conceived my Grandfather. We have no
name nor proof of a father to him, but it was rumoured that it was the
owner of the farm, a Mr.Schlesinger.
I have yet to come across any Schlesinger researchers anywhere that have
this lineage as well, so I'm reaching for straws now :(
[much deleted]

I was thinking of some sort of DNA testing to either prove or disprove
that we came >from the Schlesinger lineage - at least then we'd know what
to pursue. I know there are many DNA testings going on throughout the
world to prove lineages -- does anyone know if there is such testing
going on with any Schlesingers? We have been at a brick wall on this for
a couple years and feel like it's now our only hope to see if this is the
lineage we need to pursue or not.
Dear John:

If only it were *any* other name! SCHLESINGER was the single most
common name among Jews in Silesia (just north of the border). This is
not surprising, as the name means "Silesian." In 1812, there were over
80 SCHLESINGER households in Silesia. I don't have figures for Bohemia
or Moravia, but the name was common elsewhere too.

Without at least a given name for your SCHLESINGER, you'd be better off
searching haystacks for needles. Are there any land-ownership records
available?

Best of luck,
Roger LUSTIG
Princeton, NJ
Researching Gliwice & other towns in Upper Silesia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: SCHLESINGER Genealogy/DNA #general

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

John Hruszovsky wrote:

We are still trying to locate information on the surname Schlesinger which
goes back to Czechoslovakia in the late 1800's. One of our proven
relation was living on a "Schlesinger Majer" near Nove' Mesto,nad Va'hom,
Czechoslovakia (near Piestany) and conceived my Grandfather. We have no
name nor proof of a father to him, but it was rumoured that it was the
owner of the farm, a Mr.Schlesinger.
I have yet to come across any Schlesinger researchers anywhere that have
this lineage as well, so I'm reaching for straws now :(
[much deleted]

I was thinking of some sort of DNA testing to either prove or disprove
that we came >from the Schlesinger lineage - at least then we'd know what
to pursue. I know there are many DNA testings going on throughout the
world to prove lineages -- does anyone know if there is such testing
going on with any Schlesingers? We have been at a brick wall on this for
a couple years and feel like it's now our only hope to see if this is the
lineage we need to pursue or not.
Dear John:

If only it were *any* other name! SCHLESINGER was the single most
common name among Jews in Silesia (just north of the border). This is
not surprising, as the name means "Silesian." In 1812, there were over
80 SCHLESINGER households in Silesia. I don't have figures for Bohemia
or Moravia, but the name was common elsewhere too.

Without at least a given name for your SCHLESINGER, you'd be better off
searching haystacks for needles. Are there any land-ownership records
available?

Best of luck,
Roger LUSTIG
Princeton, NJ
Researching Gliwice & other towns in Upper Silesia


Re: Route Kishinev to Chicago 1884-7 #general

rokoco1@...
 

Dear Genners,

I believe I have written to everyone personally, but just in case I missed
someone:
A great big thank you to all of you who helped me. I really appreciate you
taking your personal time to respond to me.

Several of you suggested Baltimore, MD, some suggested Galveston, TX and
many of you suggested Canada. I also received sugestions to get dec of
intent, but I believe my KOVISHANSKY died before this could be applied
for. I am also faced with the problem that they came so early (1884-70.)

Jewishgen members are a great group of people.

All the best,

Bobbi Cohen
San Diego, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Route Kishinev to Chicago 1884-7 #general

rokoco1@...
 

Dear Genners,

I believe I have written to everyone personally, but just in case I missed
someone:
A great big thank you to all of you who helped me. I really appreciate you
taking your personal time to respond to me.

Several of you suggested Baltimore, MD, some suggested Galveston, TX and
many of you suggested Canada. I also received sugestions to get dec of
intent, but I believe my KOVISHANSKY died before this could be applied
for. I am also faced with the problem that they came so early (1884-70.)

Jewishgen members are a great group of people.

All the best,

Bobbi Cohen
San Diego, CA


Re: Latvian topics at IAJGS conference #latvia

martha <martha@...>
 


Could transcriptions of the presentations be made available to those
unable to attend the conference? Could they be posted on the Latvia
SIG homepage, for example? I, fyi, am particularly interested in
Martha Lev-Zion's remarks.

--Matt Singer
Philadelphia
Thanks, Matt. I am sorry that you cannot join us! There are tapes
available of all presentations at the conference. Judging >from last
year's quality, the tapes have very good speech quality. More than
likely, my talk will be published in our Newsletter, which is
available for formal members of the SIG [i.e. registered,paid, voting
members].

Warm regards, Martha
--
Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Ph.D.
President, SIG Latvia


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Latvian topics at IAJGS conference #latvia

martha <martha@...>
 


Could transcriptions of the presentations be made available to those
unable to attend the conference? Could they be posted on the Latvia
SIG homepage, for example? I, fyi, am particularly interested in
Martha Lev-Zion's remarks.

--Matt Singer
Philadelphia
Thanks, Matt. I am sorry that you cannot join us! There are tapes
available of all presentations at the conference. Judging >from last
year's quality, the tapes have very good speech quality. More than
likely, my talk will be published in our Newsletter, which is
available for formal members of the SIG [i.e. registered,paid, voting
members].

Warm regards, Martha
--
Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Ph.D.
President, SIG Latvia


Re: Change of residence #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

<< Subject: Change of residence
From: SteinHE@aol.com >>

Do you know what the Polish name of this "House Census" was? It sounds
likethe "Ksiegi Ludnosci" (Books of Residents), which were required in all towns throughout Poland. (See Bussgang articles in Avotaynu Vol 16, no. 3 (Fall 00)

But the mention of passport number means that it might be the type of
registration after 1932. Polish name might be "Ksiegi Kontroli Ruchu
Ludnosci," (Books for Population Mobility Control) " Ksiegi Meldunkowe,"
(Books of Registration) or "Rejestry Mieszkancow" (Registers of Residents). The Ksiegi Ludnosci registrations were based on place of legal residence, regardless of where person was actually living. Those after 1932 were based on where people actually lived.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Change of residence #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

<< Subject: Change of residence
From: SteinHE@aol.com >>

Do you know what the Polish name of this "House Census" was? It sounds
likethe "Ksiegi Ludnosci" (Books of Residents), which were required in all towns throughout Poland. (See Bussgang articles in Avotaynu Vol 16, no. 3 (Fall 00)

But the mention of passport number means that it might be the type of
registration after 1932. Polish name might be "Ksiegi Kontroli Ruchu
Ludnosci," (Books for Population Mobility Control) " Ksiegi Meldunkowe,"
(Books of Registration) or "Rejestry Mieszkancow" (Registers of Residents). The Ksiegi Ludnosci registrations were based on place of legal residence, regardless of where person was actually living. Those after 1932 were based on where people actually lived.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


unreported cemeteries in Naujamiestis #lithuania

Mark Brown <Mark_Brown@...>
 

My paternal grandfather emigrated in 1887 >from Naujamiestis (Panevezys uezd), a town for which I have found little in the way of published description and no visual images. Having become curious to see it but unable to travel this year, I recently asked a knowledgeable tour guide and skilled photographer based in Bialystok, Poland, who was planning a trip to Lithuania, to spend a day in Naujamiestis on my behalf.

He found no traces of synagogues, nor, with the exception of a mill formerly under Jewish ownership, any houses or other structures that the people whom he asked were able (or willing) to identify as associated with Jews. Nevertheless, the photographs, which include the approach to the town and several characteristic new structures in addition to older ones, have given me a vivid sense of what the place looks like.

I am now all the more eager to visit because--despite an apparent lack of knowledge on the part of many locals and a general suspicion of strangers asking questions--my proxy learned the existence and location of two Jewish cemeteries in a wooded area outside the town. The smaller one belongs to the fundamentalist/heretical Karaite sect. Neither is recorded at the IAJGS International Jewish Cemetery Project web site (to which there is a link at JewishGen.org). Nor is the Karaite cemetery mentioned at the Lithuanian Karaims Culture Community web site
(http://daugenis.mch.mii.lt/karaimai/tradition.htm), which lists only those at Trakai, Vilnius, and Panevezys, although the photographs show that there were burials during the 20th century and as late as 2001.

Anyone interested in these cemeteries, the town, or the tour guide and photographer may contact me privately.

Mark N. Brown
Providence, RI


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania unreported cemeteries in Naujamiestis #lithuania

Mark Brown <Mark_Brown@...>
 

My paternal grandfather emigrated in 1887 >from Naujamiestis (Panevezys uezd), a town for which I have found little in the way of published description and no visual images. Having become curious to see it but unable to travel this year, I recently asked a knowledgeable tour guide and skilled photographer based in Bialystok, Poland, who was planning a trip to Lithuania, to spend a day in Naujamiestis on my behalf.

He found no traces of synagogues, nor, with the exception of a mill formerly under Jewish ownership, any houses or other structures that the people whom he asked were able (or willing) to identify as associated with Jews. Nevertheless, the photographs, which include the approach to the town and several characteristic new structures in addition to older ones, have given me a vivid sense of what the place looks like.

I am now all the more eager to visit because--despite an apparent lack of knowledge on the part of many locals and a general suspicion of strangers asking questions--my proxy learned the existence and location of two Jewish cemeteries in a wooded area outside the town. The smaller one belongs to the fundamentalist/heretical Karaite sect. Neither is recorded at the IAJGS International Jewish Cemetery Project web site (to which there is a link at JewishGen.org). Nor is the Karaite cemetery mentioned at the Lithuanian Karaims Culture Community web site
(http://daugenis.mch.mii.lt/karaimai/tradition.htm), which lists only those at Trakai, Vilnius, and Panevezys, although the photographs show that there were burials during the 20th century and as late as 2001.

Anyone interested in these cemeteries, the town, or the tour guide and photographer may contact me privately.

Mark N. Brown
Providence, RI


Svencionys and Vilkaviskis #lithuania

Lawrence Ginsburg <lmg24@...>
 

Seeking information about RACHIL GINSBURG (nee MARLELEVITZ) who died before 1920 survived by husband DAVID ben Schrage GINSBURG all of whom lived in Svencionys. Also researching Vilkaviskis resident BELLE CHIKE LIPSTEINAS (born before 1881) daughter of HIRSCEL (Geershel) ben Yitchok LIPSTEINAS who died before 1931 and surviving wife ESTHER LIPSTEINAS who died in Proskurov in 1941.

Lawrence M. Ginsburg
Atlanta, GA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Svencionys and Vilkaviskis #lithuania

Lawrence Ginsburg <lmg24@...>
 

Seeking information about RACHIL GINSBURG (nee MARLELEVITZ) who died before 1920 survived by husband DAVID ben Schrage GINSBURG all of whom lived in Svencionys. Also researching Vilkaviskis resident BELLE CHIKE LIPSTEINAS (born before 1881) daughter of HIRSCEL (Geershel) ben Yitchok LIPSTEINAS who died before 1931 and surviving wife ESTHER LIPSTEINAS who died in Proskurov in 1941.

Lawrence M. Ginsburg
Atlanta, GA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Re: Confusion about the notation "r" in the JRI? #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

Robert Fraser writes:

<< On the 1864 marriage certificate of a relative, the bridegroom is married to "Magdalena recte Amalia Wolf". Magdalena is hardly a typical Jewish name, so what can I infer >from this? >>

That her name on her birth record was Amalia but she used Magdalena in later years, but since it wasn't official, the clerk corrected the record.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Confusion about the notation "r" in the JRI? #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

Robert Fraser writes:

<< On the 1864 marriage certificate of a relative, the bridegroom is married to "Magdalena recte Amalia Wolf". Magdalena is hardly a typical Jewish name, so what can I infer >from this? >>

That her name on her birth record was Amalia but she used Magdalena in later years, but since it wasn't official, the clerk corrected the record.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


Re: Confusion about the notation "r" in the JRI? #poland

Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

While the "assignment" of surnames in a civil registration
document was based on laws and decrees >from the Government, the
registration of given names was not controlled by the
authorities. This makes interpretations of these notations purely
speculative.

It is possible that the birth name could have been officially
changed. In this case, the non-Jewish name Magdelena may have
been changed by the parents after the registration. On the birth
record, a note indicating the name is now "correctly" or "recte"
Amalia Wolf would have been added. This same note would then be
used by the Marriage registrar as the "official" given name. I am
sure there are other plausible explanations.

In my experience with eastern Galician records, entries
identifying two given names to a person usually are shown as:
Leon v. Leib. The "v" is an abbreviation for vel, which in
English would mean "also known as" or AKA. In these cases, a
Jewish given name and a secular given name are both provided in
the record.

Mark Halpern

----- Original Message -----
That explains the use of two surnames, but I've also come
across
an instance utilising two given names. On the 1864 marriage
certificate of a relative, the bridegroom is married to
"Magdalena recte Amalia Wolf".

Magdalena is hardly a typical Jewish name, so what can I infer
from this?
Shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
rwfgjf@iinet.net.au.org


JRI Poland #Poland RE: Confusion about the notation "r" in the JRI? #poland

Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

While the "assignment" of surnames in a civil registration
document was based on laws and decrees >from the Government, the
registration of given names was not controlled by the
authorities. This makes interpretations of these notations purely
speculative.

It is possible that the birth name could have been officially
changed. In this case, the non-Jewish name Magdelena may have
been changed by the parents after the registration. On the birth
record, a note indicating the name is now "correctly" or "recte"
Amalia Wolf would have been added. This same note would then be
used by the Marriage registrar as the "official" given name. I am
sure there are other plausible explanations.

In my experience with eastern Galician records, entries
identifying two given names to a person usually are shown as:
Leon v. Leib. The "v" is an abbreviation for vel, which in
English would mean "also known as" or AKA. In these cases, a
Jewish given name and a secular given name are both provided in
the record.

Mark Halpern

----- Original Message -----
That explains the use of two surnames, but I've also come
across
an instance utilising two given names. On the 1864 marriage
certificate of a relative, the bridegroom is married to
"Magdalena recte Amalia Wolf".

Magdalena is hardly a typical Jewish name, so what can I infer
from this?
Shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
rwfgjf@iinet.net.au.org