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Re: Can anyone explain JONAS and COHEN?
#general
Judith Romney Wegner
I have the 1849 ketubah of my gggrandparents. On this, according toDear Peter, Normally the only full Hebrew names of males that would appear on a ketubbah would be those of the bridegroom (in the text itself) and those of the witnesses (who sign at the foot of the ketubbah). The bride's father's name would appear only partially in the text of the ketubbah , namely his own pesonal name would appear there but not his father's name (thus, in this case, supposing the bride's name was Ruth, the ketubbah would describe her as "Marat Ruth bat David Ha-Cohen" (Ms. Ruth, daughter of David the Kohen) without mentioning the name of David's father Shimon at all. You did not state the exact Hebrew words which your Israeli friend translated as "Rabbi David ben Shimon Cohen", nor where on the document this appeared. So, is it possible that the bride's father was one of the witnesses, in which case he would have signed his full Hebrew name: " R. David ben R. Shimon ha-Kohen" -- at the foot of the ketubbah. If so, that formula means simply "David son of Simon the Kohen" (i.e. it means that the family were members of the caste of Kohanim , but "Kohen" was not their actual surname. (In this case, as the Bevis Marks records told you, the surname was actually Jonas.) Note also that In the standard formula, "R. David ben R. Shimon ha-Kohen." "R" does not stand for the title "Rabbi." It stands for "Reb", which is simply the normal Yiddish abbreviation for"Mr" (the Hebrew for Rabbi would be "ha-Rav" ). And the description "ha-Kohen" is not the surname "Cohen" (though of course many Kohanim do have that surname) but refers simply to the caste status of "Kohen." Judith Romney Wegner
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Can anyone explain JONAS and COHEN?
#general
Judith Romney Wegner
I have the 1849 ketubah of my gggrandparents. On this, according toDear Peter, Normally the only full Hebrew names of males that would appear on a ketubbah would be those of the bridegroom (in the text itself) and those of the witnesses (who sign at the foot of the ketubbah). The bride's father's name would appear only partially in the text of the ketubbah , namely his own pesonal name would appear there but not his father's name (thus, in this case, supposing the bride's name was Ruth, the ketubbah would describe her as "Marat Ruth bat David Ha-Cohen" (Ms. Ruth, daughter of David the Kohen) without mentioning the name of David's father Shimon at all. You did not state the exact Hebrew words which your Israeli friend translated as "Rabbi David ben Shimon Cohen", nor where on the document this appeared. So, is it possible that the bride's father was one of the witnesses, in which case he would have signed his full Hebrew name: " R. David ben R. Shimon ha-Kohen" -- at the foot of the ketubbah. If so, that formula means simply "David son of Simon the Kohen" (i.e. it means that the family were members of the caste of Kohanim , but "Kohen" was not their actual surname. (In this case, as the Bevis Marks records told you, the surname was actually Jonas.) Note also that In the standard formula, "R. David ben R. Shimon ha-Kohen." "R" does not stand for the title "Rabbi." It stands for "Reb", which is simply the normal Yiddish abbreviation for"Mr" (the Hebrew for Rabbi would be "ha-Rav" ). And the description "ha-Kohen" is not the surname "Cohen" (though of course many Kohanim do have that surname) but refers simply to the caste status of "Kohen." Judith Romney Wegner
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Re: Russian Military Service
#belarus
Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
I would like to add to Bruno Martuzan's very informative post on Russian
military service, that in the latter period, that is >from the 1880s on, the following was observed among the draft records of my cousins searched for me by a professional researcher in Vilnius a few years ago: oldest sons were registered only sons were registered in a family with several sons, every single one was registered In short, family circumstances don't seem to have entered into the equation at all, and nothing about them was entered in the records themselves. There was a difference in the ages at which young men registered. The cousins who were apprenticed to skilled trademen registered at 12 to 15. Since, at the time, bar mitzvah was a true rite of passage into adulthood, this requirement was not out of line with the contemporary Jewish world view, no matter how draconian it seems to us today, when bar mitzvah has become more symbolic. The cousin who went to a Railway Engineering Technical School registered at close to 20 and entered military service upon graduation, so there was a sort of student deferrment. There are many family stories about possible ways to avoid the draft in Russia. The data on my Vilnius family suggest that birth order and number of sons in the family were not considered by the authorities >from the 1880s on. Irene Newhouse Kihei HI
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Russian Military Service
#general
Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
I would like to add to Bruno Martuzan's very informative post on Russian
military service, that in the latter period, that is >from the 1880s on, the following was observed among the draft records of my cousins searched for me by a professional researcher in Vilnius a few years ago: oldest sons were registered only sons were registered in a family with several sons, every single one was registered In short, family circumstances don't seem to have entered into the equation at all, and nothing about them was entered in the records themselves. There was a difference in the ages at which young men registered. The cousins who were apprenticed to skilled trademen registered at 12 to 15. Since, at the time, bar mitzvah was a true rite of passage into adulthood, this requirement was not out of line with the contemporary Jewish world view, no matter how draconian it seems to us today, when bar mitzvah has become more symbolic. The cousin who went to a Railway Engineering Technical School registered at close to 20 and entered military service upon graduation, so there was a sort of student deferrment. There are many family stories about possible ways to avoid the draft in Russia. The data on my Vilnius family suggest that birth order and number of sons in the family were not considered by the authorities >from the 1880s on. Irene Newhouse Kihei HI
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Re: KGB
#general
Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:08:55 UTC, mrl516@bellsouth.net (Marilyn F) opined:
X-No-archive: yes I am trying to locate a cousin of mine whose husband who a member of theThe best bet, it seems to me, would be the succesor agency of the KGB, called the Federal Security Service (in Russian. "Federal'naya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti"), Organization and Personnel Service (in Russian, "Sluzhba Organizatzii i Personal"), Moskva, Russia. Best to write in Russian, if you can get someone to do that for you. Russian government agencies, in my experience, have been as helpful as they can, but it would be asking a lot to require that they relate promptly, or at all, to inquiries in foreign languages, of which English is one. -- Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel Searching: NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: KGB
#general
Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:08:55 UTC, mrl516@bellsouth.net (Marilyn F) opined:
X-No-archive: yes I am trying to locate a cousin of mine whose husband who a member of theThe best bet, it seems to me, would be the succesor agency of the KGB, called the Federal Security Service (in Russian. "Federal'naya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti"), Organization and Personnel Service (in Russian, "Sluzhba Organizatzii i Personal"), Moskva, Russia. Best to write in Russian, if you can get someone to do that for you. Russian government agencies, in my experience, have been as helpful as they can, but it would be asking a lot to require that they relate promptly, or at all, to inquiries in foreign languages, of which English is one. -- Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel Searching: NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is: http://www.hashkedim.com For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.
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Re: Black Aprons worn at Shivas
#general
Jean Perkin <jean@...>
I can always remember right up to the 50s and 60s, bereaved wives wearing a
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
black overall when sitting shiva. (This was in London). I always assumed that putting a black overall on was taken >from the gentiles, who dress completely in black as a sign of mourning. This puzzles me. I have always (in the manner of Ashenazi Jews) wished mourners 'Long Life' at a Shiva and on a Yahrtzeit. Unfortunately there have been recent bereavements in my family both in the U.S and Israel. I have, according to our custom, wished the mourners long life. Neither the Americans or the Israelis knew what I was talking about. Is this a purely English custom? J Perkin UK "Anita Benson" <anita.benson@virgin.net> wrote
My aunt now in her 80's remembers at her father in law's shiva in 1950 his
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Black Aprons worn at Shivas
#general
Jean Perkin <jean@...>
I can always remember right up to the 50s and 60s, bereaved wives wearing a
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
black overall when sitting shiva. (This was in London). I always assumed that putting a black overall on was taken >from the gentiles, who dress completely in black as a sign of mourning. This puzzles me. I have always (in the manner of Ashenazi Jews) wished mourners 'Long Life' at a Shiva and on a Yahrtzeit. Unfortunately there have been recent bereavements in my family both in the U.S and Israel. I have, according to our custom, wished the mourners long life. Neither the Americans or the Israelis knew what I was talking about. Is this a purely English custom? J Perkin UK "Anita Benson" <anita.benson@virgin.net> wrote
My aunt now in her 80's remembers at her father in law's shiva in 1950 his
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Re: Black Aprons worn at Shivas
#general
Susana Leistner Bloch
At 12:00 AM 1/25/2005, Judith Romney Wegner wrote
As we left England in 1957, I didn't get to attend shivas in myI received several private responses to my question and some confirm that this was the custom in England, Germany and other places. I am just wondering if this apron was used for "Kriah" (rending of clothes). People were very poor in the shtetlach and rending a blouse or dress would be a hardship. The apron would be a solution that complied with "Kryah" and saved the clothing. As far as an apron being a Dutch custom, it was very much the custom in Eastern Europe for Jewish women to wear an apron. I have seen it in many photos >from Galicia. They wore it when they were not "dressed up" but in everyday clothing There were two types of apron : The more usual one tied to the waist and one that looked almost like a long vest, sleeveless and half covering the dress. In Chassidic circles women wore (still wear?) a white apron for Shabat and Yom Kippur. Susana Leistner Bloch
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Black Aprons worn at Shivas
#general
Susana Leistner Bloch
At 12:00 AM 1/25/2005, Judith Romney Wegner wrote
As we left England in 1957, I didn't get to attend shivas in myI received several private responses to my question and some confirm that this was the custom in England, Germany and other places. I am just wondering if this apron was used for "Kriah" (rending of clothes). People were very poor in the shtetlach and rending a blouse or dress would be a hardship. The apron would be a solution that complied with "Kryah" and saved the clothing. As far as an apron being a Dutch custom, it was very much the custom in Eastern Europe for Jewish women to wear an apron. I have seen it in many photos >from Galicia. They wore it when they were not "dressed up" but in everyday clothing There were two types of apron : The more usual one tied to the waist and one that looked almost like a long vest, sleeveless and half covering the dress. In Chassidic circles women wore (still wear?) a white apron for Shabat and Yom Kippur. Susana Leistner Bloch
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British Jews: Dutch, German or East European? (was black aprons)
#general
MBernet@...
In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jrw@brown.edu writes: < many London-born Jews dying around 1950 would have been born to Jewish families already in London *before* the floodtide of immigration >from Eastern Europe; > ==that is partly correct, of course. The influx into Britain of most of the Jews >from Eastern Europe (predominantly Litta) started in 1880. ==however, the mean life expectancy of Jews born in England around 1880 was probably around 55, and the majority would not have survived to the age of 70. < most such London-born Jews families did have Dutch antecedents. > ==Not so. Ashkenazim (mostly >from German speaking countries--Germany, Austria, Northern France, Bohemia, Holland--and following the Western Ashkenazi rituals) started arriving in Britain within three decades of the arrival of the Sefardi Jews >from Holland, and soon outnumbered them. By the mid-19th century, for sure, they formed by far the larger and more influential (not necessarily the richer) Jewish communty. ==The Jewish Chronicle (founded 1841) and Jew's College (1855), the Beth Din, the Chief Rabbinate, United Synagogue ("established" in 1870 by an act of Parliament), were all "Ashkenazi" oriented, and strongly related to German-Jewish practices. When I left the UK in 1948, the vast majority of synagogues based their ritual on that of Western Ashkenazim. ==I guess that the confusion of "black" and "apron" stems >from German/Yiddish "schwartz/schwartze" and "Schuerze[n]/Schirtze[n]" respectively. This confusion of terms happens frequently in Jewish folklore and practice, e.g. emptying pockets ("teschlech") for Tashlich, eating Hamantaschen ("Mohntaschen") on Purim, reciting "Kol Mevasser" on Hoshanah Rabba (feast of the water supplication). Michael Bernet, New York
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen British Jews: Dutch, German or East European? (was black aprons)
#general
MBernet@...
In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jrw@brown.edu writes: < many London-born Jews dying around 1950 would have been born to Jewish families already in London *before* the floodtide of immigration >from Eastern Europe; > ==that is partly correct, of course. The influx into Britain of most of the Jews >from Eastern Europe (predominantly Litta) started in 1880. ==however, the mean life expectancy of Jews born in England around 1880 was probably around 55, and the majority would not have survived to the age of 70. < most such London-born Jews families did have Dutch antecedents. > ==Not so. Ashkenazim (mostly >from German speaking countries--Germany, Austria, Northern France, Bohemia, Holland--and following the Western Ashkenazi rituals) started arriving in Britain within three decades of the arrival of the Sefardi Jews >from Holland, and soon outnumbered them. By the mid-19th century, for sure, they formed by far the larger and more influential (not necessarily the richer) Jewish communty. ==The Jewish Chronicle (founded 1841) and Jew's College (1855), the Beth Din, the Chief Rabbinate, United Synagogue ("established" in 1870 by an act of Parliament), were all "Ashkenazi" oriented, and strongly related to German-Jewish practices. When I left the UK in 1948, the vast majority of synagogues based their ritual on that of Western Ashkenazim. ==I guess that the confusion of "black" and "apron" stems >from German/Yiddish "schwartz/schwartze" and "Schuerze[n]/Schirtze[n]" respectively. This confusion of terms happens frequently in Jewish folklore and practice, e.g. emptying pockets ("teschlech") for Tashlich, eating Hamantaschen ("Mohntaschen") on Purim, reciting "Kol Mevasser" on Hoshanah Rabba (feast of the water supplication). Michael Bernet, New York
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pictures on naturalization & citizenship papers
#general
Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
My father's US naturalization papers >from 1942 has his picture on it with
his name change on the back. And my mother's citizenship certificate >from 1931 has her picture on it. Rose Feldman GITNER, REZNIK Litin & Kalinovka Ukraine EPSTEIN, BOYARKSY Ruzhany, Kossovo, Mscibow Belarus TREPPER, TREPMAN, FELDMAN, LICHT, SOICHER, SLOVIK, SZPERBER, ORENSTEIN Warsaw Poland
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen pictures on naturalization & citizenship papers
#general
Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
My father's US naturalization papers >from 1942 has his picture on it with
his name change on the back. And my mother's citizenship certificate >from 1931 has her picture on it. Rose Feldman GITNER, REZNIK Litin & Kalinovka Ukraine EPSTEIN, BOYARKSY Ruzhany, Kossovo, Mscibow Belarus TREPPER, TREPMAN, FELDMAN, LICHT, SOICHER, SLOVIK, SZPERBER, ORENSTEIN Warsaw Poland
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Re: Photographs on Certificates of Naturalization
#general
Susan&David
My father was naturalized in Massachusetts 1927. I have the Certificate
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
of Naturalization. It does not have his picture. I also have another certificate entitled Certificate of Citizenship issued in 1937. This one does have his picture. David Rosen Boston, MA Alan Steinfeld wrote:
I have seen photographs of the individual on certificates of
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Re: Photographs on Certificates of Naturalization
#general
s_wiener@...
Dean Alan & other genners,
While I cannot attest to the first issuance of a Certificate of Naturalization including a photograph, I can offer the information >from those of my grandparents. My grandfather was naturalized in Brooklyn, New York on May 24, 1927. We have the original Certificate of Citizenship however the photograph was lost. One can see the glue residue where the photo once was. My grandmother was naturalized in Brooklyn, New York on July 30, 1929. On her original Certificate of Citizenship the photograph is still affixed. I look forward to postings regarding the earliest known Certificates with photographs. Shellie Wiener San Francisco, CA Researching relative to this posting: WINDWER and variants - Kolomyya and vicinity in Galicia RUBINGER - Putila, Czernowitz, Vatra Dorna in Bukovina --- Alan Steinfeld <alansteinfeld@optonline.net> writes: I have seen photographs of the individual on certificates of naturalization >from the 1950s. Does anyone know when photographs began to be attached to these documents? Is it likely that a certificate issued in the 1920s would have a photograph attached?
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Photographs on Certificates of Naturalization
#general
Susan&David
My father was naturalized in Massachusetts 1927. I have the Certificate
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
of Naturalization. It does not have his picture. I also have another certificate entitled Certificate of Citizenship issued in 1937. This one does have his picture. David Rosen Boston, MA Alan Steinfeld wrote:
I have seen photographs of the individual on certificates of
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Photographs on Certificates of Naturalization
#general
s_wiener@...
Dean Alan & other genners,
While I cannot attest to the first issuance of a Certificate of Naturalization including a photograph, I can offer the information >from those of my grandparents. My grandfather was naturalized in Brooklyn, New York on May 24, 1927. We have the original Certificate of Citizenship however the photograph was lost. One can see the glue residue where the photo once was. My grandmother was naturalized in Brooklyn, New York on July 30, 1929. On her original Certificate of Citizenship the photograph is still affixed. I look forward to postings regarding the earliest known Certificates with photographs. Shellie Wiener San Francisco, CA Researching relative to this posting: WINDWER and variants - Kolomyya and vicinity in Galicia RUBINGER - Putila, Czernowitz, Vatra Dorna in Bukovina --- Alan Steinfeld <alansteinfeld@optonline.net> writes: I have seen photographs of the individual on certificates of naturalization >from the 1950s. Does anyone know when photographs began to be attached to these documents? Is it likely that a certificate issued in the 1920s would have a photograph attached?
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1891 census lookup - Liverpool research
#unitedkingdom
Lois Kaufman <lois@...>
Please could someone who has access to the 1891 census look up a first
cousin/brother in law of my g-grandfather for me? His name was Jacob Aarons and his wife was Elizabeth (Moss). He was born in Liverpool in about 1851, so would be around 40 at the time of the census. I have an 1887 address of 8 Sandon Terrace, Upper Duke Street for him - I assume that this would be in Liverpool as at the time he was described as Keeper of the Princes Road Synagogue. In 1888 I have a reference to him living at 1 Hope Place, though this may be the address of the Liverpool Old Congregation where he was Keeper, and in 1889 there is a reference to Jacob Aarons, sexton, at 2 Carter Street. Jacob Aarons and his many brothers and sisters (Mary, Sophia, Solomon, Caroline, Walter, Alfred, Mitchel, Rachel, Abraham, Rosa) were orphaned in 1874, when the youngest, Rosa was 11. I have managed to trace descendents of the eldest sibling, Mary as she married her first cousin, Solomon Henry Myers, older brother of my g-grandfather; and with the help of FreeBMD and the Jewishgen family finder I have managed to find a living descendent of the youngest, Rosa. However, what happened to the others is a mystery. In 1871 the family was living at 64 Russell Street Liverpool. In 1881 I have Mary Aarons/Myers and family living at an address in Liverpool, but no amount of searching the 1881 census has turned up the other Aarons siblings. So now I have some leads, >from trade directories supplied by a researcher in Liverpool, and am hopeful that these may turn up something on this family. Thank you. Regards, Lois Kaufman London
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom 1891 census lookup - Liverpool research
#unitedkingdom
Lois Kaufman <lois@...>
Please could someone who has access to the 1891 census look up a first
cousin/brother in law of my g-grandfather for me? His name was Jacob Aarons and his wife was Elizabeth (Moss). He was born in Liverpool in about 1851, so would be around 40 at the time of the census. I have an 1887 address of 8 Sandon Terrace, Upper Duke Street for him - I assume that this would be in Liverpool as at the time he was described as Keeper of the Princes Road Synagogue. In 1888 I have a reference to him living at 1 Hope Place, though this may be the address of the Liverpool Old Congregation where he was Keeper, and in 1889 there is a reference to Jacob Aarons, sexton, at 2 Carter Street. Jacob Aarons and his many brothers and sisters (Mary, Sophia, Solomon, Caroline, Walter, Alfred, Mitchel, Rachel, Abraham, Rosa) were orphaned in 1874, when the youngest, Rosa was 11. I have managed to trace descendents of the eldest sibling, Mary as she married her first cousin, Solomon Henry Myers, older brother of my g-grandfather; and with the help of FreeBMD and the Jewishgen family finder I have managed to find a living descendent of the youngest, Rosa. However, what happened to the others is a mystery. In 1871 the family was living at 64 Russell Street Liverpool. In 1881 I have Mary Aarons/Myers and family living at an address in Liverpool, but no amount of searching the 1881 census has turned up the other Aarons siblings. So now I have some leads, >from trade directories supplied by a researcher in Liverpool, and am hopeful that these may turn up something on this family. Thank you. Regards, Lois Kaufman London
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