Date   

Re: Posting Courtest on JewishGen #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

To all those who have responded to my posting, let me clarify. I never,
ever, meant it as an obligation to do what I only suggested. I was only
commenting on a problem that had affected me and I supposed others. You can
take it or leave it.

Please get back to the real purpose of JewishGen which is genealogy!!!!

Thank you,
Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net

MODERATOR NOTE: We agree. Please continue this discussion via private
e-mails to those who have posted.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Posting Courtest on JewishGen #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

To all those who have responded to my posting, let me clarify. I never,
ever, meant it as an obligation to do what I only suggested. I was only
commenting on a problem that had affected me and I supposed others. You can
take it or leave it.

Please get back to the real purpose of JewishGen which is genealogy!!!!

Thank you,
Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net

MODERATOR NOTE: We agree. Please continue this discussion via private
e-mails to those who have posted.


re; Posting Courtesy on JewishGen #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Stan Goodman writes re "cc-ing" people: Non-technical
people like most of those in this forum may not
realize it...... Stan then gives his "2005 internet
netiquette reasons" for not *cc-ing* correspondents.

If one does not correspond with people except
officially through the General Discussion Group, how
does one know they are "non-technical"? Anyway, what
does "non-technical" mean in terms of Jewish
genealogy?

Does it mean not being able to fix a pc if it goes
wrong {like me}, or that one still marvels at the
wonders of the internet and genealogical miracles it
produces {like me}, or perhaps that one cannot read
Russian {like me}?

I am a biotechnologist [am I now technical?} and I
find Jewish genealogy never-endingly fascinating {is
this technical or non-technical?}.

I often cc and bcc people to create links and foster
"off-list" discussions. I know that these produce
results in genealogy and I have been very successful
[sorry to have to mention this!] in forging links and
finding lost family branches, as anyone who reads the
Austria-Czech SIG will know.

How do I do this - by very careful research {is this
considered non-technical?} and definitely not by
following rigid rules which are counter-productive to
good genealogy. There are no "hard and fast" rules -
we have to do what we feel might bring about results,
in the quickest possible time, without causing offence
of course.

I would feel rather let down if the people I had
helped, often after a lot of work sitting in an
archive, surfing the internet or studying books {are
these actvities technical or non-technical?}, did not
thank me personally.

The forefathers we are researching would have
understood that. Although we have the internet and
so-called netiquette - these basic rules and norms of
human feelings and behaviour have not changed. There
is nothing that beats personal contact.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: posting courtesy on JewishGen #general

Lynne Shapiro <lynneshap@...>
 

My preference is to get personal replies as well as replies through the
forum, if it is an issue of general concern. But that is because I get
the forum in the digest format, which means I will normally not see the
replies until the next day unless they are sent directly to me, and
because replies in the digest are more difficult to extrapolate and save
than those sent directly. Many people do not read the digests every day,
so a personal reply is the only way they will see a response. But when
that is the case, people should request private replies with the original
inquiry.

I have found it odd when I've received private letters >from other
responders about issues I responded to. Most of the time, my responses
are not about issues that I care to know more about; I respond when I
think I may be of help to someone else. For example, I have some late
1930s street guides for NYC, which also contain hospital names and such.
When an inquiry comes in that those guides can help answer, I respond,
without my needing to know how others replied to the same question. If I
want the original poster to summarize the replies he or she received and
send them to me, I will specifically request it - the 5% of the time that
the issue is of specific interest to me.

Since people obviously have different ideas as to what is courteous here,
posters should in future be more specific as to how they want their
replies to come. I would hope that even Stan Goodman sends private
replies when they are specifically requested.

By the way, there was one time some months ago in which I asked a
question, received responses, and did not thank all the people who wrote
or send a general thank you to the forum. My intent had been to
summarize the responses, which came in over a period of days, and post
them. But I became very busy and didn't get to it, and then a ridiculous
amount of time went by. I do appreciate those who took the time to write
and apologize for not having said thank you at that time. I have found
that people do generally say thank you when I respond to their questions.
But I also don't keep records or look for a thanks for each response.
Life is too short.

Lynne Shapiro
Western Mass.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re; Posting Courtesy on JewishGen #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Stan Goodman writes re "cc-ing" people: Non-technical
people like most of those in this forum may not
realize it...... Stan then gives his "2005 internet
netiquette reasons" for not *cc-ing* correspondents.

If one does not correspond with people except
officially through the General Discussion Group, how
does one know they are "non-technical"? Anyway, what
does "non-technical" mean in terms of Jewish
genealogy?

Does it mean not being able to fix a pc if it goes
wrong {like me}, or that one still marvels at the
wonders of the internet and genealogical miracles it
produces {like me}, or perhaps that one cannot read
Russian {like me}?

I am a biotechnologist [am I now technical?} and I
find Jewish genealogy never-endingly fascinating {is
this technical or non-technical?}.

I often cc and bcc people to create links and foster
"off-list" discussions. I know that these produce
results in genealogy and I have been very successful
[sorry to have to mention this!] in forging links and
finding lost family branches, as anyone who reads the
Austria-Czech SIG will know.

How do I do this - by very careful research {is this
considered non-technical?} and definitely not by
following rigid rules which are counter-productive to
good genealogy. There are no "hard and fast" rules -
we have to do what we feel might bring about results,
in the quickest possible time, without causing offence
of course.

I would feel rather let down if the people I had
helped, often after a lot of work sitting in an
archive, surfing the internet or studying books {are
these actvities technical or non-technical?}, did not
thank me personally.

The forefathers we are researching would have
understood that. Although we have the internet and
so-called netiquette - these basic rules and norms of
human feelings and behaviour have not changed. There
is nothing that beats personal contact.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: posting courtesy on JewishGen #general

Lynne Shapiro <lynneshap@...>
 

My preference is to get personal replies as well as replies through the
forum, if it is an issue of general concern. But that is because I get
the forum in the digest format, which means I will normally not see the
replies until the next day unless they are sent directly to me, and
because replies in the digest are more difficult to extrapolate and save
than those sent directly. Many people do not read the digests every day,
so a personal reply is the only way they will see a response. But when
that is the case, people should request private replies with the original
inquiry.

I have found it odd when I've received private letters >from other
responders about issues I responded to. Most of the time, my responses
are not about issues that I care to know more about; I respond when I
think I may be of help to someone else. For example, I have some late
1930s street guides for NYC, which also contain hospital names and such.
When an inquiry comes in that those guides can help answer, I respond,
without my needing to know how others replied to the same question. If I
want the original poster to summarize the replies he or she received and
send them to me, I will specifically request it - the 5% of the time that
the issue is of specific interest to me.

Since people obviously have different ideas as to what is courteous here,
posters should in future be more specific as to how they want their
replies to come. I would hope that even Stan Goodman sends private
replies when they are specifically requested.

By the way, there was one time some months ago in which I asked a
question, received responses, and did not thank all the people who wrote
or send a general thank you to the forum. My intent had been to
summarize the responses, which came in over a period of days, and post
them. But I became very busy and didn't get to it, and then a ridiculous
amount of time went by. I do appreciate those who took the time to write
and apologize for not having said thank you at that time. I have found
that people do generally say thank you when I respond to their questions.
But I also don't keep records or look for a thanks for each response.
Life is too short.

Lynne Shapiro
Western Mass.


Re: Austria / Hungary timeline question #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Howie Axelrod <highwind1@comcast.net> wrote:
"My Great Grandfather and his family listed Hungary as
place of Origin in the 1910 census, but lists Austria
in the 1920 census. Can anyone explain?"

Nick Landau of London replied: "Which town are you
talking about? Austria-Hungary existed until the end
of the First World War. Following that there were
separate countries of Austria and Hungary."

I presume that is the crux of Howie's problem. He does
not know where his gt-grandfather came from.

There is a logical explanation [but not necessarily
correct!] relating specifically to the Burgenland,

see: http://users.spacestar.net/hapander/burgen.html

where you can read: The Province of Burgenland, in the
south east of Austria, was formed >from parts of the
Hungarian counties {Megye} of Vas, Sopron and Moson
following WWI ....... it is Austria's youngest
province, it can claim to be one of the oldest.....

The population included many ancient Jewish
communities as well as others of mainly Germanic,
Croatian and Hungarian descent. >from the 1850s onwards
many inhabitants emigrated to the United States,
Canada, South America and elsewhere.

So if Howie's family were listed in the census as
Hungarian in the 1910 census and Austrian in the 1920
census, the Burgenland fits the bill.

As the moderator helpfully suggested, Howie might now
wish to join both the Hungarian and the Austria-Czech
SIGs, hopefully to find further links.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Austria / Hungary timeline question #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Howie Axelrod <highwind1@comcast.net> wrote:
"My Great Grandfather and his family listed Hungary as
place of Origin in the 1910 census, but lists Austria
in the 1920 census. Can anyone explain?"

Nick Landau of London replied: "Which town are you
talking about? Austria-Hungary existed until the end
of the First World War. Following that there were
separate countries of Austria and Hungary."

I presume that is the crux of Howie's problem. He does
not know where his gt-grandfather came from.

There is a logical explanation [but not necessarily
correct!] relating specifically to the Burgenland,

see: http://users.spacestar.net/hapander/burgen.html

where you can read: The Province of Burgenland, in the
south east of Austria, was formed >from parts of the
Hungarian counties {Megye} of Vas, Sopron and Moson
following WWI ....... it is Austria's youngest
province, it can claim to be one of the oldest.....

The population included many ancient Jewish
communities as well as others of mainly Germanic,
Croatian and Hungarian descent. >from the 1850s onwards
many inhabitants emigrated to the United States,
Canada, South America and elsewhere.

So if Howie's family were listed in the census as
Hungarian in the 1910 census and Austrian in the 1920
census, the Burgenland fits the bill.

As the moderator helpfully suggested, Howie might now
wish to join both the Hungarian and the Austria-Czech
SIGs, hopefully to find further links.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: Austria / Hungary timeline question #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

Nick <tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

"Howie Axelrod" <highwind1@comcast.net> wrote

My Great Grandfather and his family listed Hungary as place of Origin
in the 1910 census, but list Austria in the 1920 census. Can anyone
explain?
Which town are you talking about? Austria-Hungary existed until the end of
the First World War. Following that there were separate countries of Austria
and Hungary.
Yes, although Hungary was a well-defined part of the Austro-Hungarian
Empire. There was some territory (the Burgenland) that was part of
Hungary before the war and became part of Austria after the war.
However, it may be reading too much into this to suggest that as
the explanation.

Robert Israel
israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Austria / Hungary timeline question #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

Nick <tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

"Howie Axelrod" <highwind1@comcast.net> wrote

My Great Grandfather and his family listed Hungary as place of Origin
in the 1910 census, but list Austria in the 1920 census. Can anyone
explain?
Which town are you talking about? Austria-Hungary existed until the end of
the First World War. Following that there were separate countries of Austria
and Hungary.
Yes, although Hungary was a well-defined part of the Austro-Hungarian
Empire. There was some territory (the Burgenland) that was part of
Hungary before the war and became part of Austria after the war.
However, it may be reading too much into this to suggest that as
the explanation.

Robert Israel
israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada


Pun-yah Surname #general

Greg Gruener <gruenerg@...>
 

Hey Generz,

Does anyone have information on this family surname?

If so, I would love to hear >from you to compare
records.

Variations may also include: Punya or Puhnya etc...
(pronounced: "Puhn-Yah" according to my family
history)

Shalom!

~Greg Sampson-Gruener


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Pun-yah Surname #general

Greg Gruener <gruenerg@...>
 

Hey Generz,

Does anyone have information on this family surname?

If so, I would love to hear >from you to compare
records.

Variations may also include: Punya or Puhnya etc...
(pronounced: "Puhn-Yah" according to my family
history)

Shalom!

~Greg Sampson-Gruener


Finding the town of origin of an early immigrant to US #general

Shari Kantrow
 

Dear Genners,
I am hoping that once again, someone can help me
out of this dead end. My g-grandfather Peter MEYER
came on the ship P. Caland 4 Jan 1884 through Castle
Gardens and here states his place of origin as
Germany. I have all his naturalization papers >from New
York Superior Court, that simply state he is from
Russia (late 19th century info not being as detailed
as later documents), so unfortunately, no particular
help. NYC censuses list him as being >from Russia in
1900 and Poland in 1920. The 1910 Manhattan,NY census
perhaps being more detailed, lists him as being from
Russian/Poland. What do I do now in order to obtain
his town of origin? Is there a way to order records of
departures >from Rotterdam? Has anyone had this
problem?
Thank you in advance for all your help and time.
Shari Kantrow

researching:
MEYER, KAFKA, KUPFER, SCHAFF -Russian/Poland>NY
BLITZER,KARPET,JACOBSON,LANDSMAN, BLITZMAN,BLAZER
PLATZMAN, REYITTS (REIZ)Kamenets-Podolskiy, Podolia >NY
HABERMAN,DICKMAN,SZWARZ- Bukaczowce,Siemikowce>NY
SCHNEIDER, MILBAUER, MEYER - Austria
SCHWARTZ,,SHAPIRO- Bursztyn,Kuropatniki-Galicia>NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Finding the town of origin of an early immigrant to US #general

Shari Kantrow
 

Dear Genners,
I am hoping that once again, someone can help me
out of this dead end. My g-grandfather Peter MEYER
came on the ship P. Caland 4 Jan 1884 through Castle
Gardens and here states his place of origin as
Germany. I have all his naturalization papers >from New
York Superior Court, that simply state he is from
Russia (late 19th century info not being as detailed
as later documents), so unfortunately, no particular
help. NYC censuses list him as being >from Russia in
1900 and Poland in 1920. The 1910 Manhattan,NY census
perhaps being more detailed, lists him as being from
Russian/Poland. What do I do now in order to obtain
his town of origin? Is there a way to order records of
departures >from Rotterdam? Has anyone had this
problem?
Thank you in advance for all your help and time.
Shari Kantrow

researching:
MEYER, KAFKA, KUPFER, SCHAFF -Russian/Poland>NY
BLITZER,KARPET,JACOBSON,LANDSMAN, BLITZMAN,BLAZER
PLATZMAN, REYITTS (REIZ)Kamenets-Podolskiy, Podolia >NY
HABERMAN,DICKMAN,SZWARZ- Bukaczowce,Siemikowce>NY
SCHNEIDER, MILBAUER, MEYER - Austria
SCHWARTZ,,SHAPIRO- Bursztyn,Kuropatniki-Galicia>NY


Re: Obtaining Canadian Immigration Records #general

Alan Greenberg
 

Subject: Re: Obtaining Canadian Immigration Records
From: bud484bg@aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:06:17 -0400

I have just gone through the 1911 Canada Census records and found
listings for four famiies I am researching, showing dates of
Immigration to Canada. These dates are necessary in order to request
immigration records.

How do I get these records?, since, the rules state that these are
available to citizens and residents of Canada only.

Have any of you dealt with this?

Your feedback will be appreciated.

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California
There seems to be some confusion regarding various Canadian
immigration records.

With few exceptions, there are only two types of records available.
Ship arrival records and naturalization records. The 1911 census
form requested both the year of arrival in Canada and the year of
naturalization.

Ship arrival records are generally not indexed. Without knowing the
port and approximate arrival date, it is virtually impossible to
locate the correct record. The main exception is for the years
1925-35 which are indexed. There is a pointer to the search engine
for these years on the JGS-Montreal home page
(http://jgs-montreal.org). There is no citizenship or residency
requirement for accessing these records. I think that the LDS Family
History Library has all of these microfilms.

Original naturalization records prior to 1915 are generally not
available - all that remains is an index card containing very
rudimentary information (equivalent to the details that you need to
supply to get the record). Naturalizations for 1915-1932 have been
indexed by the JGS-Montreal and are searchable on the Canadian
Genealogy Centre's web site. It is accessible via the JGS-Montreal
web site (the search engine is a bit cumbersome, but work is underway
to streamline this). We are just starting a new project to index the
1931-51 records. The naturalization records contain a wealth of
information, but perhaps most importantly, they usually give the port
and exact date of arrival in Canada. If arrival was through the US,
they usually also list the US arrival details. In many cases, a wife
and children were naturalized along with the father. If the
naturalization was prior to 1915, there are no original records, but
if the wife or a child later applied for a naturalization certificate
in their own name (quite common), many details of the original
application (including arrival information) are often replicated in
this later application.

These naturalization records can only be requested by Canadian
citizens or residents (they are available under the Canadian Access
to Information laws, which grant access only to those categories of
people). However, there is no requirement that the requestor be
directly related to the person naturalized. So any friend or
colleague who is Canadian or lives in Canada can make the request.
Details of how to make the request and what information is required
is also on the JGS-Montreal web site.

Note that technically naturalization records can be requested without
the index, but in practice the index provides the naturalization
certificate number which increases the likelihood of a successful request.

Alan Greenberg
JGS-Montreal
Montreal, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Obtaining Canadian Immigration Records #general

Alan Greenberg
 

Subject: Re: Obtaining Canadian Immigration Records
From: bud484bg@aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:06:17 -0400

I have just gone through the 1911 Canada Census records and found
listings for four famiies I am researching, showing dates of
Immigration to Canada. These dates are necessary in order to request
immigration records.

How do I get these records?, since, the rules state that these are
available to citizens and residents of Canada only.

Have any of you dealt with this?

Your feedback will be appreciated.

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California
There seems to be some confusion regarding various Canadian
immigration records.

With few exceptions, there are only two types of records available.
Ship arrival records and naturalization records. The 1911 census
form requested both the year of arrival in Canada and the year of
naturalization.

Ship arrival records are generally not indexed. Without knowing the
port and approximate arrival date, it is virtually impossible to
locate the correct record. The main exception is for the years
1925-35 which are indexed. There is a pointer to the search engine
for these years on the JGS-Montreal home page
(http://jgs-montreal.org). There is no citizenship or residency
requirement for accessing these records. I think that the LDS Family
History Library has all of these microfilms.

Original naturalization records prior to 1915 are generally not
available - all that remains is an index card containing very
rudimentary information (equivalent to the details that you need to
supply to get the record). Naturalizations for 1915-1932 have been
indexed by the JGS-Montreal and are searchable on the Canadian
Genealogy Centre's web site. It is accessible via the JGS-Montreal
web site (the search engine is a bit cumbersome, but work is underway
to streamline this). We are just starting a new project to index the
1931-51 records. The naturalization records contain a wealth of
information, but perhaps most importantly, they usually give the port
and exact date of arrival in Canada. If arrival was through the US,
they usually also list the US arrival details. In many cases, a wife
and children were naturalized along with the father. If the
naturalization was prior to 1915, there are no original records, but
if the wife or a child later applied for a naturalization certificate
in their own name (quite common), many details of the original
application (including arrival information) are often replicated in
this later application.

These naturalization records can only be requested by Canadian
citizens or residents (they are available under the Canadian Access
to Information laws, which grant access only to those categories of
people). However, there is no requirement that the requestor be
directly related to the person naturalized. So any friend or
colleague who is Canadian or lives in Canada can make the request.
Details of how to make the request and what information is required
is also on the JGS-Montreal web site.

Note that technically naturalization records can be requested without
the index, but in practice the index provides the naturalization
certificate number which increases the likelihood of a successful request.

Alan Greenberg
JGS-Montreal
Montreal, Canada


Memorabilia re: Simon KATZ #general

Howard Orenstein
 

Dear Genners,
My cousin, who knows of my interest in Jewish genealogy, was in a
thrift shop in NYC and found some memorabilia, including a Ketubah,
for Simon Katz and his wife, Amalie (Malcah). If you are researching
this family, please contact me privately for more information about
these items, whichdate to the 1920s. I am glad to share them with you.

Howard Orenstein
horenstein@mcdaniel.edu
Westminster, MD


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Memorabilia re: Simon KATZ #general

Howard Orenstein
 

Dear Genners,
My cousin, who knows of my interest in Jewish genealogy, was in a
thrift shop in NYC and found some memorabilia, including a Ketubah,
for Simon Katz and his wife, Amalie (Malcah). If you are researching
this family, please contact me privately for more information about
these items, whichdate to the 1920s. I am glad to share them with you.

Howard Orenstein
horenstein@mcdaniel.edu
Westminster, MD


[Fwd: Matzeva inscription] #rabbinic

Alex P. Korn <apkorn@...>
 

On 2005.08.28, Charles Nydorf <Cnydorf@aol.com> wrote:

On the headstone of my ggfather Abraham BERGER (1838-1918), 'Hagodl
Hatoyre' is written between Pey Nun and his name. Does this phrase
have any special significance
Charles,

The letter, peh, standing for poh, means "here".
The letter, nun, standing for nikbar, means buried.
Hence the entire inscription seems to say: "Here the great
in Torah, Avraham BERGER, is buried."

Alex P. Korn
Toronto


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic [Fwd: Matzeva inscription] #rabbinic

Alex P. Korn <apkorn@...>
 

On 2005.08.28, Charles Nydorf <Cnydorf@aol.com> wrote:

On the headstone of my ggfather Abraham BERGER (1838-1918), 'Hagodl
Hatoyre' is written between Pey Nun and his name. Does this phrase
have any special significance
Charles,

The letter, peh, standing for poh, means "here".
The letter, nun, standing for nikbar, means buried.
Hence the entire inscription seems to say: "Here the great
in Torah, Avraham BERGER, is buried."

Alex P. Korn
Toronto