Date   

Re: The Origins of Katz Surname #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

"katz" originated as a hebrew abbreviation for "kohen tzedek", and was used as a surname almost exclusively by kohanim (although there was nothing to prevent others >from adopting the name). (its similarity to the german word for cat is purely coincidence.) i wouldn't say that it was exactly "germanized", since it was "katz" both before and after, but it may have been considered as "acceptable" because it sounded sufficiently like german. apparently, "katzenellenbogen" was originally a place name (see http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=135&letter=K&search=katzenellenbogen ), after the bearers had moved somewhere else, although the "katz-" part may have originated >from some (medieval?) cat.

i wouldn't be surprised to see it used instead of "hacohen", although i wouldn't call it exactly a title. in a sense it is more of an abbreviation, much like "b'r" is a common abbreviation for "ben reb" (even though it is also a proper aramaic word meaning "son of").

because hungarian jews were among the first to be emancipated in europe, there was significant immigration >from surrounding countries. those people would have brought their names with them, so it isn't surprising that a family would have branches in different parts of europe.


....... tom klein, toronto

ps. my own theory for the large number of KLEINs in hungary is that it is also derived >from "cohen".

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@KLA-Tencor.com>wrote:

My cousin had taken the FTDNA Y37 test and the results that came back
matched several people, one of which is an exact match with us. The DNA
matching indicate that we are all relatives and that our common ancestor
(depending on the level of DNA matchin) lived between 200 to 600 years
ago.
The ancestors of these people are known to have come >from Ukraine and
Poland. My family is the only one >from Hungary.

All the people we match with (exact or partial match) are known to be
Kohanim as the Katz surname would suggest. However, only one of them
carry
the surname Katz. All the others have different surnames like Kahan,
Bloom,
Kaplansky, Feinberg, etc. Most of these people have indications that
thier
surname was changed >from Kahan or Kohen but not >from Katz.

I always believed that Katz was one of those ancient surnames since it
has a
meaning in Hebrew and that it was carried over the generations.

Is it possible that Katz is a germanized name to comply wuth the 1786
Empiral naming Order?

I have seen in other places that Katz was also used as a title and not
as a
surname. For examply, Rabby Shimshon Eliezer Katz Gottdiener who was a
"Av-Beit Din (head of Jewish court)" in Tiszalok (in the book "Shem
Ha'Gdolim" by Pinhas Zelig Schwartz) who is known to have been a Kohen.
Gottdiener is a greminazed name of the Hebrew surnmae Ovadia (server of
God).


Re: Some Basic Questions #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

Thank you, Vivian, for your answer.

At 02:54 AM 11/3/2005, vkahn@kmort.com wrote:
Pat,

There are records in the Hungarian state archives, the archives in
Nyireghaza, and in many other locations that have not been filmed by the
FHL. When JewishGen volunteers and staff come across such records they
attempt to acquire such records and obtain permission for JewishGen to
transcribe them. If you are unable to find the records you want in the
FHL catalog, you need to contact other sources, including the closest
regional and national archives to find out if such records exist. It's
always a good idea to first post your inquiry to the Hungarian SIG website
because many researchers have obtained records that have not been filmed
by the FHL. The next step is to contact various sources directly to find
out if the records you seek exist. H-SIG members may also be able to
direct you to the places that are most likely to have the records you seek.

The FHL donated a catalog of its Jewish records to JewishGen several years
ago. That database, which you can find on the JewishGen website, does not
include Jewish records that have been filmed during the time when this
catalog was created. You need to go to the FHL website or your local FHL
branch for more current information.

I hope that this answers your question.

Vivian Kahn

Subject: re:Some Basic Questions
From: Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:16:32 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Dear Vivian,

You mention more records >from Nireghaza. You also say that the FHL list is
dated. Do you know of these other records >from Nireghaza are being/have
been filed and just not included in the list online, or are the the numbers
available a the FHC?

Pat

12:58 AM On 10/28/2005, vkahn@kmort.com wrote:
Dear Peter,

You've asked some questions for which others who have recently begun
researching Hungarian Jewish roots may also need answers.

Hungary began civil registration in October 1895. Before then, vital
records were maintained by the Jewish community and turned over to the
authorities. One copy of these records was kept in the place where the
records were generated and the other was usually sent to the county
(megye). As a result, even though some of the local records were
destroyed during WWII, others that were kept in county, regional, or
national archives may have been preserved. The Mormon Family History
Library (FHL) has filmed many records >from pre-World War I Hungary, which
included areas that are in present-day Hungary as well as places that are
now in Slovakia, Romania, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, and other modern nations
surrounding Hungary. The first step in researching your roots is to find
out in which current nation your ancestors lived.

Check the FHL on-line catalogue to see if they have filmed Jewish records
from the places where your relatives lived. You can search a somewhat
dated version of the FHL collection of Jewish records at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/FHLC/
You should also search the surnames and places that you are researching in
the JewishGen Hungary Database (JHD)
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Hungary >.

If you have family >from areas that are in present-day Hungary or Slovakia,
you may be able to obtain records by writing to the Hungarian or Slovak
National Archives. Check the Hungarian SIG message archives and website
for current addresses. Your research will be more difficult if your
family came >from parts of pre-Trianon Hungary that are now in Romania or
the Ukraine. The FHL has microfilmed most of the 1848 Jewish Census
records that are held by the Hungarian National
Archives, but we continue to find records in regional archives
(Nyireghaza and Satorjaujhely, for example) and archives in Romania.
We know that there are other census and Jewish vital records in Romanian
and Ukrainian archives. JewishGen is continuing to try and obtain these
records and get permission to create indices that we can publish on-line.

In addition to searching the JewishGen Hungary Database (JHD), you should
send messages to the Hungarian SIG mailing list to find out if anyone is
researching your names and/or places or can suggest other resources.
We
have more than 800 members in more than a dozen countries and many of them
are fluent in Hungarian. Make sure to use a meaningful subject line (e.g.
Searching KAHAN/Sziget) and include your place of residence with your full
name. This will help folks to identify resources
that are available close to where you live. Also, make sure to
turn off SPAM blockers to allow H-SIG members to reach you.

Please feel free to contact me off-line or, if your questions might be of
general interest, through the Hungarian SIG discussion group.

Happy hunting!

Vivian Kahn, Hungarian SIG Coordinator


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: RE: The Origins of Katz Surname #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

"katz" originated as a hebrew abbreviation for "kohen tzedek", and was used as a surname almost exclusively by kohanim (although there was nothing to prevent others >from adopting the name). (its similarity to the german word for cat is purely coincidence.) i wouldn't say that it was exactly "germanized", since it was "katz" both before and after, but it may have been considered as "acceptable" because it sounded sufficiently like german. apparently, "katzenellenbogen" was originally a place name (see http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=135&letter=K&search=katzenellenbogen ), after the bearers had moved somewhere else, although the "katz-" part may have originated >from some (medieval?) cat.

i wouldn't be surprised to see it used instead of "hacohen", although i wouldn't call it exactly a title. in a sense it is more of an abbreviation, much like "b'r" is a common abbreviation for "ben reb" (even though it is also a proper aramaic word meaning "son of").

because hungarian jews were among the first to be emancipated in europe, there was significant immigration >from surrounding countries. those people would have brought their names with them, so it isn't surprising that a family would have branches in different parts of europe.


....... tom klein, toronto

ps. my own theory for the large number of KLEINs in hungary is that it is also derived >from "cohen".

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@KLA-Tencor.com>wrote:

My cousin had taken the FTDNA Y37 test and the results that came back
matched several people, one of which is an exact match with us. The DNA
matching indicate that we are all relatives and that our common ancestor
(depending on the level of DNA matchin) lived between 200 to 600 years
ago.
The ancestors of these people are known to have come >from Ukraine and
Poland. My family is the only one >from Hungary.

All the people we match with (exact or partial match) are known to be
Kohanim as the Katz surname would suggest. However, only one of them
carry
the surname Katz. All the others have different surnames like Kahan,
Bloom,
Kaplansky, Feinberg, etc. Most of these people have indications that
thier
surname was changed >from Kahan or Kohen but not >from Katz.

I always believed that Katz was one of those ancient surnames since it
has a
meaning in Hebrew and that it was carried over the generations.

Is it possible that Katz is a germanized name to comply wuth the 1786
Empiral naming Order?

I have seen in other places that Katz was also used as a title and not
as a
surname. For examply, Rabby Shimshon Eliezer Katz Gottdiener who was a
"Av-Beit Din (head of Jewish court)" in Tiszalok (in the book "Shem
Ha'Gdolim" by Pinhas Zelig Schwartz) who is known to have been a Kohen.
Gottdiener is a greminazed name of the Hebrew surnmae Ovadia (server of
God).


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Some Basic Questions #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

Thank you, Vivian, for your answer.

At 02:54 AM 11/3/2005, vkahn@kmort.com wrote:
Pat,

There are records in the Hungarian state archives, the archives in
Nyireghaza, and in many other locations that have not been filmed by the
FHL. When JewishGen volunteers and staff come across such records they
attempt to acquire such records and obtain permission for JewishGen to
transcribe them. If you are unable to find the records you want in the
FHL catalog, you need to contact other sources, including the closest
regional and national archives to find out if such records exist. It's
always a good idea to first post your inquiry to the Hungarian SIG website
because many researchers have obtained records that have not been filmed
by the FHL. The next step is to contact various sources directly to find
out if the records you seek exist. H-SIG members may also be able to
direct you to the places that are most likely to have the records you seek.

The FHL donated a catalog of its Jewish records to JewishGen several years
ago. That database, which you can find on the JewishGen website, does not
include Jewish records that have been filmed during the time when this
catalog was created. You need to go to the FHL website or your local FHL
branch for more current information.

I hope that this answers your question.

Vivian Kahn

Subject: re:Some Basic Questions
From: Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:16:32 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Dear Vivian,

You mention more records >from Nireghaza. You also say that the FHL list is
dated. Do you know of these other records >from Nireghaza are being/have
been filed and just not included in the list online, or are the the numbers
available a the FHC?

Pat

12:58 AM On 10/28/2005, vkahn@kmort.com wrote:
Dear Peter,

You've asked some questions for which others who have recently begun
researching Hungarian Jewish roots may also need answers.

Hungary began civil registration in October 1895. Before then, vital
records were maintained by the Jewish community and turned over to the
authorities. One copy of these records was kept in the place where the
records were generated and the other was usually sent to the county
(megye). As a result, even though some of the local records were
destroyed during WWII, others that were kept in county, regional, or
national archives may have been preserved. The Mormon Family History
Library (FHL) has filmed many records >from pre-World War I Hungary, which
included areas that are in present-day Hungary as well as places that are
now in Slovakia, Romania, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, and other modern nations
surrounding Hungary. The first step in researching your roots is to find
out in which current nation your ancestors lived.

Check the FHL on-line catalogue to see if they have filmed Jewish records
from the places where your relatives lived. You can search a somewhat
dated version of the FHL collection of Jewish records at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/FHLC/
You should also search the surnames and places that you are researching in
the JewishGen Hungary Database (JHD)
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Hungary >.

If you have family >from areas that are in present-day Hungary or Slovakia,
you may be able to obtain records by writing to the Hungarian or Slovak
National Archives. Check the Hungarian SIG message archives and website
for current addresses. Your research will be more difficult if your
family came >from parts of pre-Trianon Hungary that are now in Romania or
the Ukraine. The FHL has microfilmed most of the 1848 Jewish Census
records that are held by the Hungarian National
Archives, but we continue to find records in regional archives
(Nyireghaza and Satorjaujhely, for example) and archives in Romania.
We know that there are other census and Jewish vital records in Romanian
and Ukrainian archives. JewishGen is continuing to try and obtain these
records and get permission to create indices that we can publish on-line.

In addition to searching the JewishGen Hungary Database (JHD), you should
send messages to the Hungarian SIG mailing list to find out if anyone is
researching your names and/or places or can suggest other resources.
We
have more than 800 members in more than a dozen countries and many of them
are fluent in Hungarian. Make sure to use a meaningful subject line (e.g.
Searching KAHAN/Sziget) and include your place of residence with your full
name. This will help folks to identify resources
that are available close to where you live. Also, make sure to
turn off SPAM blockers to allow H-SIG members to reach you.

Please feel free to contact me off-line or, if your questions might be of
general interest, through the Hungarian SIG discussion group.

Happy hunting!

Vivian Kahn, Hungarian SIG Coordinator


Sunshine--the movie #hungary

alex p miller <alex.miller@...>
 

A few years ago, the movie Sunshine--of genealogical value-- came out and
was talked about. In spite of all my efforts in the area I failed to see
it. Now it is on video. I ordered it >from <snip>

Enjoy!

Alex Miller

Moderator: Per JewishGen rules we've omitted the name of the well-known commercial CD operation. If the film is on CD it should be available >from a variety of sources.


Re: TRANSLATION OF WORD PLEASE #hungary

Peter Stern <drpstern@...>
 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : B. Frederics [mailto:picturethisfilm@email.com]
Envoye : lundi 31 octobre 2005 04:58
A : H-SIG
Objet : [h-sig] TRANSLATION OF WORD PLEASE

... It's in German and can be found at
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html and it's file VM7046.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

It would look very much like the German word "Kreisler" (cereal trader) if
there wasn't that loop in between the "s" and the "l".

Then again, the loop might be a "z", "sz" doesn't alter the German
pronunciation, fits the Hungarian one and "Kreiszler" seems to be a quite
common surname in Hungary. The "Hungarian" spelling might have had an
identical meaning once, my own Hungarian isn't good enough to tell.

Best regards.

Peter Stern
Chartres, France


Hungary SIG #Hungary Sunshine--the movie #hungary

alex p miller <alex.miller@...>
 

A few years ago, the movie Sunshine--of genealogical value-- came out and
was talked about. In spite of all my efforts in the area I failed to see
it. Now it is on video. I ordered it >from <snip>

Enjoy!

Alex Miller

Moderator: Per JewishGen rules we've omitted the name of the well-known commercial CD operation. If the film is on CD it should be available >from a variety of sources.


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: TRANSLATION OF WORD PLEASE #hungary

Peter Stern <drpstern@...>
 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : B. Frederics [mailto:picturethisfilm@email.com]
Envoye : lundi 31 octobre 2005 04:58
A : H-SIG
Objet : [h-sig] TRANSLATION OF WORD PLEASE

... It's in German and can be found at
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html and it's file VM7046.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

It would look very much like the German word "Kreisler" (cereal trader) if
there wasn't that loop in between the "s" and the "l".

Then again, the loop might be a "z", "sz" doesn't alter the German
pronunciation, fits the Hungarian one and "Kreiszler" seems to be a quite
common surname in Hungary. The "Hungarian" spelling might have had an
identical meaning once, my own Hungarian isn't good enough to tell.

Best regards.

Peter Stern
Chartres, France


KVACHINSKIJ family #ukraine

Shelly Crane
 

Hello,
I am researching my great grandmother Rachel KVACHINSKIJ (KWAIT in the US)
from Pliskov, Ukraine. Apparently, Neal & Judy FRIEDMAN have also been
researching this family and have been unable to contact them directly. If anyone
has a lead on how I may contact them please respond privately.

Regards,
Shelly Crane
crzprncess@aol.com
other names I am researching:
Ukraine: BERMAN, BINDER, BLAS/BLAZ, BLECHMAN/BLEKHMAN, CHESSIN,
CHOLODENKO, FELDMAN, GITERMAN, GLASS, KOEPPEL, KWATCHINSKY/ KVACHINSKIJ/KWAIT,
LEFELMAN, LIPOVETSKY, MEZHERITZKY, OSCHERANKO, PETROVSKIJ, SELDMAN, SHAPIRA,
SHIFFMAN, ZEISLER


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine KVACHINSKIJ family #ukraine

Shelly Crane
 

Hello,
I am researching my great grandmother Rachel KVACHINSKIJ (KWAIT in the US)
from Pliskov, Ukraine. Apparently, Neal & Judy FRIEDMAN have also been
researching this family and have been unable to contact them directly. If anyone
has a lead on how I may contact them please respond privately.

Regards,
Shelly Crane
crzprncess@aol.com
other names I am researching:
Ukraine: BERMAN, BINDER, BLAS/BLAZ, BLECHMAN/BLEKHMAN, CHESSIN,
CHOLODENKO, FELDMAN, GITERMAN, GLASS, KOEPPEL, KWATCHINSKY/ KVACHINSKIJ/KWAIT,
LEFELMAN, LIPOVETSKY, MEZHERITZKY, OSCHERANKO, PETROVSKIJ, SELDMAN, SHAPIRA,
SHIFFMAN, ZEISLER


Translation needed #belarus

GailEliz@...
 

I have posted a photo of an unknown relative to the JewishGen View Mate
site.
It can be seen at VM7047
(http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=7047). I think that
the writing on the front of the photo
is the name of the photo studio and hopefully a location is given. My
paternal grandmother and grandfather both came >from Berezena, near Minsk.
The photo was found by a cousin while sorting through my 97 year old aunt's
things and she is no longer capable of being questioned.
I would be most grateful to anyone who can translate it for me? Please
contact me privately at Gaileliz@aol.com.
Many thanks!
Gail Duckman, Northridge, California


Belarus SIG #Belarus Translation needed #belarus

GailEliz@...
 

I have posted a photo of an unknown relative to the JewishGen View Mate
site.
It can be seen at VM7047
(http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=7047). I think that
the writing on the front of the photo
is the name of the photo studio and hopefully a location is given. My
paternal grandmother and grandfather both came >from Berezena, near Minsk.
The photo was found by a cousin while sorting through my 97 year old aunt's
things and she is no longer capable of being questioned.
I would be most grateful to anyone who can translate it for me? Please
contact me privately at Gaileliz@aol.com.
Many thanks!
Gail Duckman, Northridge, California


Rita MAISEL/MEISEL #general

David Priever
 

Dear fellow Jewishgenners,

I am looking for a Rita (nee MAISEL or MAISEL) who was born in Brooklyn, ca.
1928. Her father was either Nathan or Louis. I have no idea what her
married name may have been but am hoping this *may* seem familiar to those
MAISEL/MEISEL researchers out there.

Thank you very much in advance.

Sincerely,

David J. Priever
email: brooklyn1960@hotmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Rita MAISEL/MEISEL #general

David Priever
 

Dear fellow Jewishgenners,

I am looking for a Rita (nee MAISEL or MAISEL) who was born in Brooklyn, ca.
1928. Her father was either Nathan or Louis. I have no idea what her
married name may have been but am hoping this *may* seem familiar to those
MAISEL/MEISEL researchers out there.

Thank you very much in advance.

Sincerely,

David J. Priever
email: brooklyn1960@hotmail.com


Searching SEGAL in Toronto Canada #general

Mark Budman <budman@...>
 

Hello,

With the release of the 1911 Canadian Census, I have been able to locate
additional names in my SEGAL family research.

I am searching for anyone who has connection to Solomon SEGAL (B 1885), who
lived in Toronto (Elizabeth street at some point) around 1911 (and maybe as
far as 1921) with his family.

Family members that I am aware of include:

Wife Annie (b 1889), daughter Mary (B Jan 1910),and son Alexander (B 1911)

I even have a picture of Solomin Segal to compare against.

Has anyone heard of any of these people?

Please contact me if you have any information.

Best Regards,

Mark
---
Mark J. Budman
Researching SEGAL / SOLOMIN
budman@generation.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching SEGAL in Toronto Canada #general

Mark Budman <budman@...>
 

Hello,

With the release of the 1911 Canadian Census, I have been able to locate
additional names in my SEGAL family research.

I am searching for anyone who has connection to Solomon SEGAL (B 1885), who
lived in Toronto (Elizabeth street at some point) around 1911 (and maybe as
far as 1921) with his family.

Family members that I am aware of include:

Wife Annie (b 1889), daughter Mary (B Jan 1910),and son Alexander (B 1911)

I even have a picture of Solomin Segal to compare against.

Has anyone heard of any of these people?

Please contact me if you have any information.

Best Regards,

Mark
---
Mark J. Budman
Researching SEGAL / SOLOMIN
budman@generation.net


Re: OSSUR and OSHER #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

Regarding the assumption proposed by Irene Kudish that OSSUR and OSHER
might be another form of the surname of OSHRY >from Kupiskis, I would like to
state the following:

Rabbi Oshry's surname was not derived >from the names OSSUR or OSHER at all.
It came >from an entirely different source or root which was the first word
of the 141 Psalm. This source was given by Rabbi Oshry himself and other
relatives. Also, the names OSSUR or OSHER do not appear in the Kupiskis
records.

Ann Rabinowitz
Coordinator, Kupiskis SIG
annrab@bellsouth.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: OSSUR and OSHER #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

Regarding the assumption proposed by Irene Kudish that OSSUR and OSHER
might be another form of the surname of OSHRY >from Kupiskis, I would like to
state the following:

Rabbi Oshry's surname was not derived >from the names OSSUR or OSHER at all.
It came >from an entirely different source or root which was the first word
of the 141 Psalm. This source was given by Rabbi Oshry himself and other
relatives. Also, the names OSSUR or OSHER do not appear in the Kupiskis
records.

Ann Rabinowitz
Coordinator, Kupiskis SIG
annrab@bellsouth.net


Searching for Axelrad #general

Tony Hausner
 

I am looking for a Nathan AXELRAD (or AXELROD) who lived in Raanana in
1956. or his relatives or descendants. He once lived in Stanislawow now
called Ivano Frankiwsk, now in western ukraine.
Axelrod or his descendats are being sought by members of
the Kressel family >from Zablotow who are now in the USA. Please respond
privately. Thank you.

Tony Hausner
Silver Spring, MD
Researching:
Hausner: Skala, Galicia, Austria, Bohemia
Wechsler, Zimmerman: Galicia
Bloch, Epstein: Czech


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching for Axelrad #general

Tony Hausner
 

I am looking for a Nathan AXELRAD (or AXELROD) who lived in Raanana in
1956. or his relatives or descendants. He once lived in Stanislawow now
called Ivano Frankiwsk, now in western ukraine.
Axelrod or his descendats are being sought by members of
the Kressel family >from Zablotow who are now in the USA. Please respond
privately. Thank you.

Tony Hausner
Silver Spring, MD
Researching:
Hausner: Skala, Galicia, Austria, Bohemia
Wechsler, Zimmerman: Galicia
Bloch, Epstein: Czech