Date   

The power of persistence: a success story #belarus

David Gordon
 

I have been involved in one way or another with JewishGen since the
mid-1990s. And one of the things that has always been the hardest to
read about was others' success stories. All my persistence somehow
never seemed to pay off. The more leads I chased, the more dead ends
I reached. Occasionally, I would have successes, but they were,
almost without exception, one my mother's side of the family. I have
worked on my family history since the mid-1980s and have been at a
standstill for longer than I care to think about with my father's
family, the Gordons. The fact that it is a common last name in
Lithuania when combined with the fact that no one knew where in
Lithuania the family came >from have stymied my efforts
for--literally--decades.

About four years ago, I had one of those hundreds of short e-mail
correspondences that most of us have--asking someone who is
researching the same last name whether there might be any connection.=20
Nothing came of that correspondence and I forgot about it. Then, this
summer I saw a posting on LitvakSIG that mentioned that Jewish
migration to Springfield, Massachusetts, was largely >from one town in
Lithuania: Butrimantz (Butrimonys). My Gordon family had settled in
Chicopee Falls, close to Springfield, and I thought this might be a
lead I could pursue. Still, life interferes and given the substantial
number of dead end leads I've chased, I put off writing. Finally,
just last week I wrote to Jerry Zeisler who had posted that
information and asked whether he could tell me more.

In fact, Jerry and I had had that very brief correspondence in 2001,
as he later reminded me. But we hadn't pursued things far enough to
find any connection. This time, however, we found the connection
quickly. Jerry quickly involved his sister, Bonnie Frederics, who
brought more information to bear and posted on LitvakSIG with a
question about the names Nochum/Naftali/Nathan. Thanks to the
generosity of others, she was able to confirm that my
great-great-grandfather and theirs were brothers. Just in time for
Thanksgiving!

Jerry lives in Virginia; I live in Chicago, and Bonnie, in Tucson.=20
Would we ever have made the connection without LitvakSIG? Maybe, but
highly unlikely I think.

So I draw two morals >from my little story: your own success story is
out there too--never give up on being persistent and chasing leads.=20
Second, be careful when responding to that unsolicited query from
someone you don't know. Make sure you list all the names that might
help. I no longer have our 2001 correspondence so I don't know how we
missed connecting the first time--but perhaps it was simply my failure
to go back far enough with the names.

In any case, although this is a success story and a happy beginning
for all of us, I am writing to encourage everyone else who has yet to
have that success. Persistence will pay off. It may not be this year
or even soon. But these boards are, perhaps, the most valuable
resource we have: we need to support them to make success stories
possible. Maybe your success will come through correspondence;
perhaps it will come through finding a name in newly translated
records posted here. Although none of us has enough money to
contribute to all the worthy causes in our lives, and few of us have
enough to contribute to all the worthy causes within JewishGen itself,
every little bit helps--and I encourage anyone reading this far to
make that contribution. It paid off for us. It can help make
possible your success story too.

Good luck!

David Gordon
Chicago, IL
MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen collects "success stories". Scroll down to the bottom
of the JG home page and click on "Success Stories" to add your own.
Searching: GORDON (Butrimantz!); LEVINE (Butrimantz); BLOCH (not
sure); HORWITZ (Lapichi, Smolevichi); GIBALOVITCH (Borisov); DRAZIN
(Bobruisk); BENENSON (Borisov); HURWITZ (Gomel).


Belarus SIG #Belarus The power of persistence: a success story #belarus

David Gordon
 

I have been involved in one way or another with JewishGen since the
mid-1990s. And one of the things that has always been the hardest to
read about was others' success stories. All my persistence somehow
never seemed to pay off. The more leads I chased, the more dead ends
I reached. Occasionally, I would have successes, but they were,
almost without exception, one my mother's side of the family. I have
worked on my family history since the mid-1980s and have been at a
standstill for longer than I care to think about with my father's
family, the Gordons. The fact that it is a common last name in
Lithuania when combined with the fact that no one knew where in
Lithuania the family came >from have stymied my efforts
for--literally--decades.

About four years ago, I had one of those hundreds of short e-mail
correspondences that most of us have--asking someone who is
researching the same last name whether there might be any connection.=20
Nothing came of that correspondence and I forgot about it. Then, this
summer I saw a posting on LitvakSIG that mentioned that Jewish
migration to Springfield, Massachusetts, was largely >from one town in
Lithuania: Butrimantz (Butrimonys). My Gordon family had settled in
Chicopee Falls, close to Springfield, and I thought this might be a
lead I could pursue. Still, life interferes and given the substantial
number of dead end leads I've chased, I put off writing. Finally,
just last week I wrote to Jerry Zeisler who had posted that
information and asked whether he could tell me more.

In fact, Jerry and I had had that very brief correspondence in 2001,
as he later reminded me. But we hadn't pursued things far enough to
find any connection. This time, however, we found the connection
quickly. Jerry quickly involved his sister, Bonnie Frederics, who
brought more information to bear and posted on LitvakSIG with a
question about the names Nochum/Naftali/Nathan. Thanks to the
generosity of others, she was able to confirm that my
great-great-grandfather and theirs were brothers. Just in time for
Thanksgiving!

Jerry lives in Virginia; I live in Chicago, and Bonnie, in Tucson.=20
Would we ever have made the connection without LitvakSIG? Maybe, but
highly unlikely I think.

So I draw two morals >from my little story: your own success story is
out there too--never give up on being persistent and chasing leads.=20
Second, be careful when responding to that unsolicited query from
someone you don't know. Make sure you list all the names that might
help. I no longer have our 2001 correspondence so I don't know how we
missed connecting the first time--but perhaps it was simply my failure
to go back far enough with the names.

In any case, although this is a success story and a happy beginning
for all of us, I am writing to encourage everyone else who has yet to
have that success. Persistence will pay off. It may not be this year
or even soon. But these boards are, perhaps, the most valuable
resource we have: we need to support them to make success stories
possible. Maybe your success will come through correspondence;
perhaps it will come through finding a name in newly translated
records posted here. Although none of us has enough money to
contribute to all the worthy causes in our lives, and few of us have
enough to contribute to all the worthy causes within JewishGen itself,
every little bit helps--and I encourage anyone reading this far to
make that contribution. It paid off for us. It can help make
possible your success story too.

Good luck!

David Gordon
Chicago, IL
MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen collects "success stories". Scroll down to the bottom
of the JG home page and click on "Success Stories" to add your own.
Searching: GORDON (Butrimantz!); LEVINE (Butrimantz); BLOCH (not
sure); HORWITZ (Lapichi, Smolevichi); GIBALOVITCH (Borisov); DRAZIN
(Bobruisk); BENENSON (Borisov); HURWITZ (Gomel).


Sia #general

Ellen Gottfried <en@...>
 

My grandfather was Shia Abba and he called himself Abe. However, in Polish
the name Shia (or Sia) is a dimunitive of Joshua.
Ellen Gottfried, Plainview
New York looking for GOTTFRIED, MAYMAN, PFEFFER, FINKELTAL, NADLER, SOLOMON,
NATHAN, SUSSMAN

-----Original Message-----
Can anyone tell me if the name Joshua has any connection to the given
name Sia? I have an ancestor who was known as Sia in Humenne, Slovakia
in the early 1800's. I have a death certificate, hopefully of his son
in 1928 New York, where the father's name is stated as Joshua. I would
like to work out if these are the same man.

Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia


Re: Jehoschua name for Schie #general

rojac
 

subject : Jehoschua name for Schie

This is exactly the same as the polish pronunciation for Jehoschua or Josue
is *Schie*.

regards

S. Rotkopf
Antwerp/Belgium


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Sia #general

Ellen Gottfried <en@...>
 

My grandfather was Shia Abba and he called himself Abe. However, in Polish
the name Shia (or Sia) is a dimunitive of Joshua.
Ellen Gottfried, Plainview
New York looking for GOTTFRIED, MAYMAN, PFEFFER, FINKELTAL, NADLER, SOLOMON,
NATHAN, SUSSMAN

-----Original Message-----
Can anyone tell me if the name Joshua has any connection to the given
name Sia? I have an ancestor who was known as Sia in Humenne, Slovakia
in the early 1800's. I have a death certificate, hopefully of his son
in 1928 New York, where the father's name is stated as Joshua. I would
like to work out if these are the same man.

Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jehoschua name for Schie #general

rojac
 

subject : Jehoschua name for Schie

This is exactly the same as the polish pronunciation for Jehoschua or Josue
is *Schie*.

regards

S. Rotkopf
Antwerp/Belgium


Re: Pisek and Strakonice #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Roberta Sheps of the Colchester and District Jewish
Community, UK writes that her synagogue has a Torah
scroll, >from either Pisek or Strakonice, Bohemia; they
wish to commemorate the Jews of these communities who
were killed in the Holocaust ..... and are interested
in gathering as many individual names as possible.
Roberta asks if we have any members who know that they
had family members living in either town at the
outbreak of WWII .....

Firstly, I am a bit puzzled as to why Roberta searched
the Discussion Group Archives and not the SIG
archives! They are totally separate. I got 20 hits for
Pisek on the Austria-Czech message archives, including
this very relevant message >from Susan Boyer - 18 Feb
2004 Subject: Klatovy, Domazlice, Pisek/Strakonice

"A synagogue in Fullerton, CA has 3 scrolls >from the
Scrolls Memorial Trust in London... >from Klatovy,
Domazlice, Pisek/Strakonice. ... why are the towns of
Pisek and Strakonice listed as one town? They are
close by but not one community .... do any of you know
survivors >from these towns that might want to be a Yom
HaShoah speaker in April for a very short service.

There are also 8 hits for Strakonitz/Strakonice and we
do have descendants on our SIG >from this town. However
the links may be historic. Does this matter?

In this work, one must think laterally and explore all
avenues - looking for these survivors and relatives is
a very long task and the deadline is Jan. 2006 for
this year's commemoration.

However there is, sadly, the vast database on Yad
Vashem:
http://names.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Entrance

Just enter the word *Pisek* [with no names] as a
location and up come 174 names. The first, for Hermine
KOHN, has a testimony >from her nephew in NY, Gustav
FREUD dated 1998, with an address.

Otto BROK also has a page of testimony dated 1999,
with a clearly; legible address - so has Mathilde
HIRSCH. Many pages are in Hebrew and help may be
required in reading them.

You can also search for Strakonice/Strakonitz records:
383 names appear. Amongst them, for example, you will
find Emil EHRENFREUND - a lawyer. Testimony was
submitted on 13/04/1999.

Hopefully the people who gave testimony are still
around and can be contacted. One has to go through all
the victims to see what one can find. Then one has to
decide how to contact the people. Speed is obviously
of the essence. International calls these days are
very cheap and online directories are also available.

Then to cross-check for victims who lived in Austria
go
to: http://www.lettertothestars.at/cms/

Born in Pisek: Hugo BERGER 03.05.1889; Rosa BLAU
30.09.1878; Josefine FANTL 19.05.1861; Malwine KAUDER
20.07.1876; Leontine KLAUBER 03.09.1877; Leo KRUGER
22.02.1865; Helene MANDEL 03.04.1876; Leo STRANSKY
22.06.1878.

Born in Strakonitz [no hits with Strakonice]: Helene
Viktoria ENGELSMANN 16.07.1883; Hugo KIRSCHNER
02.09.1883;
Olga LOSCH 11.05.1878.

If you enter *Strak* you find more victims and the
spelling of the place name differs and may represent a
transcription error or a similarly-sounding place
name. If you enter one of these names on the Yad
vashem database you see the victims was >from Lodz and
Strakowitz presumably is a place in Poland. It is
important to compare databases.

There is a lot of work to be done on the internet to
complete a list of victims and the internet as always
provides many, many clues to trace survivors and
relatives.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Pisek and Strakonice #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Roberta Sheps of the Colchester and District Jewish
Community, UK writes that her synagogue has a Torah
scroll, >from either Pisek or Strakonice, Bohemia; they
wish to commemorate the Jews of these communities who
were killed in the Holocaust ..... and are interested
in gathering as many individual names as possible.
Roberta asks if we have any members who know that they
had family members living in either town at the
outbreak of WWII .....

Firstly, I am a bit puzzled as to why Roberta searched
the Discussion Group Archives and not the SIG
archives! They are totally separate. I got 20 hits for
Pisek on the Austria-Czech message archives, including
this very relevant message >from Susan Boyer - 18 Feb
2004 Subject: Klatovy, Domazlice, Pisek/Strakonice

"A synagogue in Fullerton, CA has 3 scrolls >from the
Scrolls Memorial Trust in London... >from Klatovy,
Domazlice, Pisek/Strakonice. ... why are the towns of
Pisek and Strakonice listed as one town? They are
close by but not one community .... do any of you know
survivors >from these towns that might want to be a Yom
HaShoah speaker in April for a very short service.

There are also 8 hits for Strakonitz/Strakonice and we
do have descendants on our SIG >from this town. However
the links may be historic. Does this matter?

In this work, one must think laterally and explore all
avenues - looking for these survivors and relatives is
a very long task and the deadline is Jan. 2006 for
this year's commemoration.

However there is, sadly, the vast database on Yad
Vashem:
http://names.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Entrance

Just enter the word *Pisek* [with no names] as a
location and up come 174 names. The first, for Hermine
KOHN, has a testimony >from her nephew in NY, Gustav
FREUD dated 1998, with an address.

Otto BROK also has a page of testimony dated 1999,
with a clearly; legible address - so has Mathilde
HIRSCH. Many pages are in Hebrew and help may be
required in reading them.

You can also search for Strakonice/Strakonitz records:
383 names appear. Amongst them, for example, you will
find Emil EHRENFREUND - a lawyer. Testimony was
submitted on 13/04/1999.

Hopefully the people who gave testimony are still
around and can be contacted. One has to go through all
the victims to see what one can find. Then one has to
decide how to contact the people. Speed is obviously
of the essence. International calls these days are
very cheap and online directories are also available.

Then to cross-check for victims who lived in Austria
go
to: http://www.lettertothestars.at/cms/

Born in Pisek: Hugo BERGER 03.05.1889; Rosa BLAU
30.09.1878; Josefine FANTL 19.05.1861; Malwine KAUDER
20.07.1876; Leontine KLAUBER 03.09.1877; Leo KRUGER
22.02.1865; Helene MANDEL 03.04.1876; Leo STRANSKY
22.06.1878.

Born in Strakonitz [no hits with Strakonice]: Helene
Viktoria ENGELSMANN 16.07.1883; Hugo KIRSCHNER
02.09.1883;
Olga LOSCH 11.05.1878.

If you enter *Strak* you find more victims and the
spelling of the place name differs and may represent a
transcription error or a similarly-sounding place
name. If you enter one of these names on the Yad
vashem database you see the victims was >from Lodz and
Strakowitz presumably is a place in Poland. It is
important to compare databases.

There is a lot of work to be done on the internet to
complete a list of victims and the internet as always
provides many, many clues to trace survivors and
relatives.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Thanks: "Schando" for Alexander #austria-czech

Doug Mason
 

I recently posed the question about any relationship between my uncle's
formal name of Alexander and the name of "Schando", by which he was known
within the family.

Many thanks to all who responded and showed me this was not uncommon, with
variants such as Schandi being provided.

Most advised me "szandor" is the Hungarian form of Alexander. My forebears
came >from Moravia (Boskowitz and Jihlava), not Hungary. However, some told
me Hungarian-speaking Jews in Moravia used the name.

One respondent advised me: The authoritative dictionary for Austrian
usage, the "Oesterreichisches Wörterbuch", 38th edition, 1997, has the
following entry on page 694: Xandl (maennlicher Vorname): Alexander.

Thank you to the Jewishgen "family" for taking the time to help me. It has
helped clear a question that dogged me for over 60 years.

I will chat about this with my Mum next time we speak. She was born in
Vienna in March 1911.

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Thanks: "Schando" for Alexander #austria-czech

Doug Mason
 

I recently posed the question about any relationship between my uncle's
formal name of Alexander and the name of "Schando", by which he was known
within the family.

Many thanks to all who responded and showed me this was not uncommon, with
variants such as Schandi being provided.

Most advised me "szandor" is the Hungarian form of Alexander. My forebears
came >from Moravia (Boskowitz and Jihlava), not Hungary. However, some told
me Hungarian-speaking Jews in Moravia used the name.

One respondent advised me: The authoritative dictionary for Austrian
usage, the "Oesterreichisches Wörterbuch", 38th edition, 1997, has the
following entry on page 694: Xandl (maennlicher Vorname): Alexander.

Thank you to the Jewishgen "family" for taking the time to help me. It has
helped clear a question that dogged me for over 60 years.

I will chat about this with my Mum next time we speak. She was born in
Vienna in March 1911.

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia


Test Results #dna

sbloom@...
 

On 2005.11.29, Pam Weston <pweston@sandboxdp.com> wrote:

I recently received several links to the DNA test I had done on my
father's DNA. The connections are showing up as links to people
through the DNA samples >from their mothers.
[...]
I'm afraid I'm just a bit lost. Help please.
First, you should probably email the company that took the tests and
ask them specifcally what was done. I know of at least one company
that explains stuff fairly well in email and phone calls, but indeed
has a somewhat confusing website, especially if you are not used to
scientific jargon.

It sounds like your father provided a sample for both Y-DNA and
mt-dna tests. Y-DNA would only link to men. Mt-dna could link to
women or men, but only through their maternal line (i.e., the
terminal point only can be a man--no ancestor in the middle can be
a man).

If you are linking to dna samples >from other's mothers, it *must* be
Mt-DNA (as far as I know--geneticists can correct me if Im wrong).
Therefore, you are related to these folks via your father's mother's
mother's mother's..etc. (i.e., it can be only through his maternal
line).

I think the tightness of the the link is generally going to be
stronger for Y-DNA matches, because I think the Mtu-DNA features are
looking for features over longer time periods (many generations). A
geneticist can explain it better.

A female does indeed inherit DNA >from her father, but only in the
form of X chromosomes. A Y-DNA test can only test DNA >from a
Y-chromosome (which only males have). So, though you get DNA from
your dad, there isn't yet an available test that can trace this (at
least not for the purposes you mention).

In other words, the tests that are now available can not equally
test for relationships amongst any two people.

A male can only test a pure male line and his pure maternal line,
generally with tighter results for the Y-DNA. A female only test a
pure maternal line. You would need a male relative such as a father

There must be tests out there that can test for more general
relationships (paternity tests work on female babies, don't they>),
but for whatever reason they can't be adopted for genealogical
purposes at this point. Perhaps someone else can explain why. Are
they only accurate over one generation?

Steve Bloom
Farmville, VA


DNA Research #DNA Test Results #dna

sbloom@...
 

On 2005.11.29, Pam Weston <pweston@sandboxdp.com> wrote:

I recently received several links to the DNA test I had done on my
father's DNA. The connections are showing up as links to people
through the DNA samples >from their mothers.
[...]
I'm afraid I'm just a bit lost. Help please.
First, you should probably email the company that took the tests and
ask them specifcally what was done. I know of at least one company
that explains stuff fairly well in email and phone calls, but indeed
has a somewhat confusing website, especially if you are not used to
scientific jargon.

It sounds like your father provided a sample for both Y-DNA and
mt-dna tests. Y-DNA would only link to men. Mt-dna could link to
women or men, but only through their maternal line (i.e., the
terminal point only can be a man--no ancestor in the middle can be
a man).

If you are linking to dna samples >from other's mothers, it *must* be
Mt-DNA (as far as I know--geneticists can correct me if Im wrong).
Therefore, you are related to these folks via your father's mother's
mother's mother's..etc. (i.e., it can be only through his maternal
line).

I think the tightness of the the link is generally going to be
stronger for Y-DNA matches, because I think the Mtu-DNA features are
looking for features over longer time periods (many generations). A
geneticist can explain it better.

A female does indeed inherit DNA >from her father, but only in the
form of X chromosomes. A Y-DNA test can only test DNA >from a
Y-chromosome (which only males have). So, though you get DNA from
your dad, there isn't yet an available test that can trace this (at
least not for the purposes you mention).

In other words, the tests that are now available can not equally
test for relationships amongst any two people.

A male can only test a pure male line and his pure maternal line,
generally with tighter results for the Y-DNA. A female only test a
pure maternal line. You would need a male relative such as a father

There must be tests out there that can test for more general
relationships (paternity tests work on female babies, don't they>),
but for whatever reason they can't be adopted for genealogical
purposes at this point. Perhaps someone else can explain why. Are
they only accurate over one generation?

Steve Bloom
Farmville, VA


Wesola Street Cemetery in Lodz #lodz #poland

S Grossnass <s@...>
 

bsd
Dear Lodz Group
I found out that descendents of mine are buried in the old
Jewish cemetery which was at Wesola Street. (Founded 1811)
I am indeed devastated to know that this cemetery was destroyed mainly
during the post war period and it is now a built up area. I would really
like to find out what happened to all the human remains at Wesola Street
What I also need
desperately is a pre-war map showing the position of the cemetary at Wesola
street, and I need to see the lists and other information which I know has
been published. . Here in London UK the British Library does not have
these
publications. Does anyone know where else in London it would be possible to
see these publications? Also, does anyone else have relatives or
ancestors buried in Wesola Street?
Looking forward to hearing >from you
Best wishes
Sheila
Researching PINCZEWSKI; NOMBERG, WEINGOTT and descendants of Rabbi Elya
Chaim MEISEL


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Wesola Street Cemetery in Lodz #lodz #poland

S Grossnass <s@...>
 

bsd
Dear Lodz Group
I found out that descendents of mine are buried in the old
Jewish cemetery which was at Wesola Street. (Founded 1811)
I am indeed devastated to know that this cemetery was destroyed mainly
during the post war period and it is now a built up area. I would really
like to find out what happened to all the human remains at Wesola Street
What I also need
desperately is a pre-war map showing the position of the cemetary at Wesola
street, and I need to see the lists and other information which I know has
been published. . Here in London UK the British Library does not have
these
publications. Does anyone know where else in London it would be possible to
see these publications? Also, does anyone else have relatives or
ancestors buried in Wesola Street?
Looking forward to hearing >from you
Best wishes
Sheila
Researching PINCZEWSKI; NOMBERG, WEINGOTT and descendants of Rabbi Elya
Chaim MEISEL


Re: Service with the British army in the 1890s #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Robert Israel" < israel@math.ubc.ca > wrote:

Doug Mason < dmason@alphalink.com.au > wrote:

In 1894, at the age of 18, my wife's great-grandfather was recruited in
the British Army.
His enlistment in the Grenadier Guards was for "Short Service (3 years
with the Colors, and 9 years in the Reserve.)"
Was this likely to have been a voluntary enlistment or a form of
compulsory "National Service"?
I'm pretty sure this would have been voluntary. There was no
conscription in Britain until 1916.
In fact, I believe that in 1914 young men joined up in droves. It was only
later as Robert points out, presumably after the vast losses at the Somme
etc, that Britain introduced conscription.

See http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1271 >from the
Imperial War Museum regarding "When was conscription introduced during the
First World War?" January 1916 apparently.

I noticed while looking at the above link that it directs one to a page
regarding Family History http://www.iwm.org.uk/server.php?show=nav.00100a
with links such as "Tracing POW's".

http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1272 regarding "National
Service" says that the first National Service Acts were passed during WWII.
I don't know what the difference is between conscription and National
Service.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/infodocs/st_conscription_l.html (the Peace
Pledge Union Project) says that while conscription was first developed in
Prussia in the 18th C and spread throughout the Continent, it never became a
British tradition. Apparently it was considered to smack of militarism.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany) LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?) (Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Service with the British army in the 1890s #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Robert Israel" < israel@math.ubc.ca > wrote:

Doug Mason < dmason@alphalink.com.au > wrote:

In 1894, at the age of 18, my wife's great-grandfather was recruited in
the British Army.
His enlistment in the Grenadier Guards was for "Short Service (3 years
with the Colors, and 9 years in the Reserve.)"
Was this likely to have been a voluntary enlistment or a form of
compulsory "National Service"?
I'm pretty sure this would have been voluntary. There was no
conscription in Britain until 1916.
In fact, I believe that in 1914 young men joined up in droves. It was only
later as Robert points out, presumably after the vast losses at the Somme
etc, that Britain introduced conscription.

See http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1271 >from the
Imperial War Museum regarding "When was conscription introduced during the
First World War?" January 1916 apparently.

I noticed while looking at the above link that it directs one to a page
regarding Family History http://www.iwm.org.uk/server.php?show=nav.00100a
with links such as "Tracing POW's".

http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1272 regarding "National
Service" says that the first National Service Acts were passed during WWII.
I don't know what the difference is between conscription and National
Service.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/infodocs/st_conscription_l.html (the Peace
Pledge Union Project) says that while conscription was first developed in
Prussia in the 18th C and spread throughout the Continent, it never became a
British tradition. Apparently it was considered to smack of militarism.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany) LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?) (Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Belarus)


Service with the British ARmy in the 1890s #general

HPOLLINS@...
 

This would have been voluntary enlistment. There was no conscription in
Britain until 1916.
I doubt if in the 1880s they looked at his birth certificate any more than
they did in the First World War.. There are plenty of stories of under-age
soldiers in the First World War who were obviously recruited without reference
to birth certificates.. A Jewish boy, Robert Barnett (real name Raphael
Gluckstein) , was killed on 19 December 1914, aged 15. The Commonwealth War
Graves Commission records that he was 'one of the youngest battle casualties
of the war'.

Harold Pollins
Oxford, England

In a message dated 29/11/2005 21:18:55 GMT Standard Time,
dmason@alphalink.com.au writes:

In 1894, at the age of 18, my wife's great-grandfather was recruited in
the British Army.

His enlistment in the Grenadier Guards was for "Short Service (3 years
with the Colors, and 9 years in the Reserve.)"

Was this likely to have been a voluntary enlistment or a form of
compulsory "National Service"?

Would they have looked at his birth certificate or would they have taken
his stated age on trust?

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia >>>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Service with the British ARmy in the 1890s #general

HPOLLINS@...
 

This would have been voluntary enlistment. There was no conscription in
Britain until 1916.
I doubt if in the 1880s they looked at his birth certificate any more than
they did in the First World War.. There are plenty of stories of under-age
soldiers in the First World War who were obviously recruited without reference
to birth certificates.. A Jewish boy, Robert Barnett (real name Raphael
Gluckstein) , was killed on 19 December 1914, aged 15. The Commonwealth War
Graves Commission records that he was 'one of the youngest battle casualties
of the war'.

Harold Pollins
Oxford, England

In a message dated 29/11/2005 21:18:55 GMT Standard Time,
dmason@alphalink.com.au writes:

In 1894, at the age of 18, my wife's great-grandfather was recruited in
the British Army.

His enlistment in the Grenadier Guards was for "Short Service (3 years
with the Colors, and 9 years in the Reserve.)"

Was this likely to have been a voluntary enlistment or a form of
compulsory "National Service"?

Would they have looked at his birth certificate or would they have taken
his stated age on trust?

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia >>>


Thanks: "Schando" for Alexander #general

Doug Mason
 

I recently posed the question about any relationship between my uncle's
formal name of Alexander and the name of "Schando", by which he was known
within the family.

Many thanks to all who responded and showed me this was not uncommon, with
variants such as Schandi being provided.

Most advised me "szandor" is the Hungarian form of Alexander. My forebears
came >from Moravia (Boskowitz and Jihlava), not Hungary. However, some told
me Hungarian-speaking Jews in Moravia used the name.

One respondent advised me: The authoritative dictionary for Austrian
usage, the "Oesterreichisches Worterbuch", 38th edition, 1997, has the
following entry on page 694: Xandl (maennlicher Vorname): Alexander.

Thank you to the Jewishgen "family" for taking the time to help me. It has
helped clear a question that dogged me for over 60 years.

I will chat about this with my Mum next time we speak. She was born in
Vienna in March 1911.

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Thanks: "Schando" for Alexander #general

Doug Mason
 

I recently posed the question about any relationship between my uncle's
formal name of Alexander and the name of "Schando", by which he was known
within the family.

Many thanks to all who responded and showed me this was not uncommon, with
variants such as Schandi being provided.

Most advised me "szandor" is the Hungarian form of Alexander. My forebears
came >from Moravia (Boskowitz and Jihlava), not Hungary. However, some told
me Hungarian-speaking Jews in Moravia used the name.

One respondent advised me: The authoritative dictionary for Austrian
usage, the "Oesterreichisches Worterbuch", 38th edition, 1997, has the
following entry on page 694: Xandl (maennlicher Vorname): Alexander.

Thank you to the Jewishgen "family" for taking the time to help me. It has
helped clear a question that dogged me for over 60 years.

I will chat about this with my Mum next time we speak. She was born in
Vienna in March 1911.

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia