Date   

Re: Slovakian Death records #hungary

Bob Lenk
 

Dear Sam,

I just heard >from the Slovak Consulate that for older records (before
about 1895) you do need to send the application for "Genealogical
Research" directly to the archives. Apparently they sent my request to
Slovakia, and heard back.

The woman who called did not know about returning the payment I sent
them. She said she will check with the finance people and call me back.

I hope I did not create extra work or delay for you, and apologize if I did.

Bob Lenk


Sam Schleman wrote:

Dear Bob;

Thanks so much for your response. This was very helpful and I will be
sending off my form shortly.

Best wishes,

Sam

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lenk" <boblenk@frii.com>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [h-sig] Slovakian Death records


At the website of the Slovak Embassy (to the US) there are
applications for birth, marriage, and death certificates. These can
be sent with payment and a photocopy of your driver's licence or
passport, to the Embassy or one of the Consulates, depending on where
in the US you live (instructions are on the forms). These forms
require that you know the date and location of the
birth/death/marriage. Otherwise, there is a form for genealogical
research, which is a different process (form sent to the archives, who
bill you before sending results).

Links to all these forms are at:

http://www.slovakembassy-us.org/application%20for.html

The forms are in English and Slovak. I recently sent in a request for
a birth certificate. I asked how long it would take, and they told me
about 3 months.

Bob Lenk
Greeley, Colorado, US

Sam Schleman wrote:

Hello all;

I need to obtain the death record of someone >from the town of Vel'ka
Ida, which was in Hungary, but now is part of Slovakia, >from near
Kosice/Kassa. The record in question is >from the period 1896-99.

I have an address, but am wondering what is the protocol? It is
acceptable to write the letter requesting the record in English? Do I
include money now or will I be asked for money at some subsequent point?

And about how long a process is it to obtain such a record?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA
Samara99@comcast.net


Slovak Archives Correspondence - VM7585 #hungary

Rebecca Fenning <rutabegatree@...>
 

Hi all,

I received a letter >from the Slovak Archives in response to my
research request, but am not really sure what it says. I have posted
it at ViewMate (VM7585; http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/
viewmateview.asp?key=7585 )
and would appreciate any help in translating it.

Please respond privately.

Thank you,
Rebecca Fenning
Boston, Mass.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Slovakian Death records #hungary

Bob Lenk
 

Dear Sam,

I just heard >from the Slovak Consulate that for older records (before
about 1895) you do need to send the application for "Genealogical
Research" directly to the archives. Apparently they sent my request to
Slovakia, and heard back.

The woman who called did not know about returning the payment I sent
them. She said she will check with the finance people and call me back.

I hope I did not create extra work or delay for you, and apologize if I did.

Bob Lenk


Sam Schleman wrote:

Dear Bob;

Thanks so much for your response. This was very helpful and I will be
sending off my form shortly.

Best wishes,

Sam

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lenk" <boblenk@frii.com>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [h-sig] Slovakian Death records


At the website of the Slovak Embassy (to the US) there are
applications for birth, marriage, and death certificates. These can
be sent with payment and a photocopy of your driver's licence or
passport, to the Embassy or one of the Consulates, depending on where
in the US you live (instructions are on the forms). These forms
require that you know the date and location of the
birth/death/marriage. Otherwise, there is a form for genealogical
research, which is a different process (form sent to the archives, who
bill you before sending results).

Links to all these forms are at:

http://www.slovakembassy-us.org/application%20for.html

The forms are in English and Slovak. I recently sent in a request for
a birth certificate. I asked how long it would take, and they told me
about 3 months.

Bob Lenk
Greeley, Colorado, US

Sam Schleman wrote:

Hello all;

I need to obtain the death record of someone >from the town of Vel'ka
Ida, which was in Hungary, but now is part of Slovakia, >from near
Kosice/Kassa. The record in question is >from the period 1896-99.

I have an address, but am wondering what is the protocol? It is
acceptable to write the letter requesting the record in English? Do I
include money now or will I be asked for money at some subsequent point?

And about how long a process is it to obtain such a record?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA
Samara99@comcast.net


Hungary SIG #Hungary Slovak Archives Correspondence - VM7585 #hungary

Rebecca Fenning <rutabegatree@...>
 

Hi all,

I received a letter >from the Slovak Archives in response to my
research request, but am not really sure what it says. I have posted
it at ViewMate (VM7585; http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/
viewmateview.asp?key=7585 )
and would appreciate any help in translating it.

Please respond privately.

Thank you,
Rebecca Fenning
Boston, Mass.


Re: thanks for everyone's help with Jewish business inquiry #germany

Chloe2000@...
 

I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry about Jewish businesses in
Berlin. I have received many wonderful responses leading me to other interesting
information that have opened doors to new family history information. I am most
grateful for everyone's help and their direction to previously unknown resources.

Due to this wonderful assistance, I have been able to locate the listing of the
business in several years worth of the Berlin address directories online. This is
very exciting and I am now on a search for further information and maybe a photo.

Thanks again. Jill Newmark, Washington, DC Chloe2000@aol.com


Re: New Film-Hungarian Holocaust --- OH NO !!! Not Fateless - Sorstalan #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

I saw the film. I read the book both in Hungarian and English. It baffles
me, how this ever received the Nobel prize.
His Hungarian style is below literary values. His portrayal of the entire
Holocaust experience to me sounds like someone elses memories recalled. The
Film: a low budget unrealistic portrayal.
My overall impression: Author Kertesz who spent large part of his life in
Germany, created something here that is both anti-Hungarian, and a
justification for those who deny that the Holocaust ever happened. I wonder,.....

There are many well written stories, realistically dealing with the subject
in books and in films about the effect of the Holocaust on the Hungarian
Jewish life. "Fateless" / "Sorstalansag" is the worst by any definition.

Leslie Eloed
California, USA
leloed @ aol.com

In a message dated 2/6/2006 10:41:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
gsvatos@hotmail.com writes:
Today the film "Fateless" opens in Canada. It is based on the book
(Fatelessness) by Imre Kertesz... about his experiences in the camps. So
far it has had very positive reviews.

Gabi

Gabriela Svatos
Richmond Hill, Ontario
E-mail: gsvatos@hotmail.com
Business E-mail: bookstore@agawa.com
Business URL: www.abe.com/home/GSVATOS

Moderator: I have approved this message as a response to the initial comments regarding positive reviews of this film. Please limit future comments to evaluations of the film as a resource for those doing Hungarian Jewish family research.


German SIG #Germany re: thanks for everyone's help with Jewish business inquiry #germany

Chloe2000@...
 

I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry about Jewish businesses in
Berlin. I have received many wonderful responses leading me to other interesting
information that have opened doors to new family history information. I am most
grateful for everyone's help and their direction to previously unknown resources.

Due to this wonderful assistance, I have been able to locate the listing of the
business in several years worth of the Berlin address directories online. This is
very exciting and I am now on a search for further information and maybe a photo.

Thanks again. Jill Newmark, Washington, DC Chloe2000@aol.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: New Film-Hungarian Holocaust --- OH NO !!! Not Fateless - Sorstalan #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

I saw the film. I read the book both in Hungarian and English. It baffles
me, how this ever received the Nobel prize.
His Hungarian style is below literary values. His portrayal of the entire
Holocaust experience to me sounds like someone elses memories recalled. The
Film: a low budget unrealistic portrayal.
My overall impression: Author Kertesz who spent large part of his life in
Germany, created something here that is both anti-Hungarian, and a
justification for those who deny that the Holocaust ever happened. I wonder,.....

There are many well written stories, realistically dealing with the subject
in books and in films about the effect of the Holocaust on the Hungarian
Jewish life. "Fateless" / "Sorstalansag" is the worst by any definition.

Leslie Eloed
California, USA
leloed @ aol.com

In a message dated 2/6/2006 10:41:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
gsvatos@hotmail.com writes:
Today the film "Fateless" opens in Canada. It is based on the book
(Fatelessness) by Imre Kertesz... about his experiences in the camps. So
far it has had very positive reviews.

Gabi

Gabriela Svatos
Richmond Hill, Ontario
E-mail: gsvatos@hotmail.com
Business E-mail: bookstore@agawa.com
Business URL: www.abe.com/home/GSVATOS

Moderator: I have approved this message as a response to the initial comments regarding positive reviews of this film. Please limit future comments to evaluations of the film as a resource for those doing Hungarian Jewish family research.


Re: Seeking information on Viss, Hungary #hungary

Doug Cohen
 

According to Where Once We Walked, Viss Hungary had a prewar Jewish
population of 19. located 56 km ENE of Miskolc at 48o13'/21o31'


Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
dmc@dmcohen.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie Weinberg" <lbw50@optonline.net>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:04 AM
Subject: [h-sig] Seeking information on Viss, Hungary


I have just learned that my maternal great-grandfather came to Oradea,
Romania, >from Viss, Hungary. Can anyone tell me where this is and what it
is like? Thank you, Leslie Weinberg


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Seeking information on Viss, Hungary #hungary

Doug Cohen
 

According to Where Once We Walked, Viss Hungary had a prewar Jewish
population of 19. located 56 km ENE of Miskolc at 48o13'/21o31'


Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
dmc@dmcohen.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie Weinberg" <lbw50@optonline.net>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:04 AM
Subject: [h-sig] Seeking information on Viss, Hungary


I have just learned that my maternal great-grandfather came to Oradea,
Romania, >from Viss, Hungary. Can anyone tell me where this is and what it
is like? Thank you, Leslie Weinberg


Re: Klein vs Kohn #hungary

Katz, Itzik <Itzik.Katz@...>
 

The most common variations for Kohanim surnames are (but not limited
to):
Kohn
Kun
Kohen
Kahan
Cahan
Kahanov
Cahanov
Ha'Kohen
Katz
Kacs
Kagan
Kaplan
Caplan
Kaplanski
Kaplansky
Katzman
Katzmann
Katzanelson
Katzenelson
Katzenbaum

And so on and so forth.

I have learned that sometimes, although not so common, during the
surname Gremanization process Kohanim picked other surnames that don't
sound or remind the Kohen name such as, Gottdiener, Kardos, Kovacs to
name a few. For example, Rabbi Shimson Eliezer Katz Gottdiener who appears in "Shem Hagdolim" by
Pinhas Zelig Schwartz.

Samuel Katz Kardos, husband of Johana Benet (Daughter of Rabbi Marcus
Bendeickt aka Mordechai Benet) Joel Kovacs >from my family and a relative of the reputable Bela Kun (who
led the Communist revolution in Hungary in 1919) whose original surname
was Kun but he changed it to sound more Hungarian.

Although Klein is often coming >from the German word for "small" or
"short" there are few Klein who are also Kohanim.

Isaac Katz
Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: SFeuerstein [mailto:ethnoca@yahoo.ca]=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:37 AM
To: H-SIG
Subject: [h-sig] Klein vs Kohn

Subject: Re: Hajduboszormeny
From: tom klein <h-sig@ecologicaltech.com>
=20
among other theories, it probably originated as a
version of "hakohen", so you might find that your
KLEIN family are kohanim.
Theoretically possible, but not too probable. Klein
means small or short, very common in Germanic areas,
just as Kis(s) is very common in Hungary. I found
that kohanim were overwhelmingly called Kohn's.

Sarah Feuerstein


Re: Female first name(s) of "Katrina"/"Rina" #hungary

Gábor Hirsch <g_hirsch@...>
 

In my "Magyar Utonevek (Hungarian givennames)" book >from Lado Janos neither
Rina nor Katrina or Katarina are mentioned, but Kata and Katalin where they
are both mentioned as the abreviation or modification of the German
Katharina, nickname was Kati.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Von: HeyJudy123@aol.com
An: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Betreff: [h-sig] Female first name(s) of "Katrina"/"Rina"
Datum: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:03:27 EST

George FARKAS asks about the use of the first name(s) "Katrina" and/ or
"Rina" for Hungarian Jewish women, as well as any Hebrew equivalents.

I believe that "Katie" was a very popular name for Jewish women in
Hungary, and "Katie" easily could be a nickname for "Katrina."

We had several women named "Katie" on the Hungarian side of my mother's
family.

All of them bore the Hebrew/ Yiddish name of "Gittie" (or "Gittel") in
addition.

Interestingly, some of these women changed their first names >from
"Katie" to "Gisella," presumably to modernize, and also in what
presumably is an allusion to the Hebrew/ Yiddish name of "Gittie."

Judy SEGAL
New York City USA


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: Klein vs Kohn #hungary

Katz, Itzik <Itzik.Katz@...>
 

The most common variations for Kohanim surnames are (but not limited
to):
Kohn
Kun
Kohen
Kahan
Cahan
Kahanov
Cahanov
Ha'Kohen
Katz
Kacs
Kagan
Kaplan
Caplan
Kaplanski
Kaplansky
Katzman
Katzmann
Katzanelson
Katzenelson
Katzenbaum

And so on and so forth.

I have learned that sometimes, although not so common, during the
surname Gremanization process Kohanim picked other surnames that don't
sound or remind the Kohen name such as, Gottdiener, Kardos, Kovacs to
name a few. For example, Rabbi Shimson Eliezer Katz Gottdiener who appears in "Shem Hagdolim" by
Pinhas Zelig Schwartz.

Samuel Katz Kardos, husband of Johana Benet (Daughter of Rabbi Marcus
Bendeickt aka Mordechai Benet) Joel Kovacs >from my family and a relative of the reputable Bela Kun (who
led the Communist revolution in Hungary in 1919) whose original surname
was Kun but he changed it to sound more Hungarian.

Although Klein is often coming >from the German word for "small" or
"short" there are few Klein who are also Kohanim.

Isaac Katz
Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: SFeuerstein [mailto:ethnoca@yahoo.ca]=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:37 AM
To: H-SIG
Subject: [h-sig] Klein vs Kohn

Subject: Re: Hajduboszormeny
From: tom klein <h-sig@ecologicaltech.com>
=20
among other theories, it probably originated as a
version of "hakohen", so you might find that your
KLEIN family are kohanim.
Theoretically possible, but not too probable. Klein
means small or short, very common in Germanic areas,
just as Kis(s) is very common in Hungary. I found
that kohanim were overwhelmingly called Kohn's.

Sarah Feuerstein


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Female first name(s) of "Katrina"/"Rina" #hungary

Gábor Hirsch <g_hirsch@...>
 

In my "Magyar Utonevek (Hungarian givennames)" book >from Lado Janos neither
Rina nor Katrina or Katarina are mentioned, but Kata and Katalin where they
are both mentioned as the abreviation or modification of the German
Katharina, nickname was Kati.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

--- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
Von: HeyJudy123@aol.com
An: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Betreff: [h-sig] Female first name(s) of "Katrina"/"Rina"
Datum: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:03:27 EST

George FARKAS asks about the use of the first name(s) "Katrina" and/ or
"Rina" for Hungarian Jewish women, as well as any Hebrew equivalents.

I believe that "Katie" was a very popular name for Jewish women in
Hungary, and "Katie" easily could be a nickname for "Katrina."

We had several women named "Katie" on the Hungarian side of my mother's
family.

All of them bore the Hebrew/ Yiddish name of "Gittie" (or "Gittel") in
addition.

Interestingly, some of these women changed their first names >from
"Katie" to "Gisella," presumably to modernize, and also in what
presumably is an allusion to the Hebrew/ Yiddish name of "Gittie."

Judy SEGAL
New York City USA


JewishGen welcomes the Danzig/Gdansk SIG #lodz #poland

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Dear Friends,
JewishGen is extremely pleased to announce the formation of the JewishGen
Danzig/Gdansk Special Interest Group (SIG), which will focus specifically on
Danzig -- now Gdansk, Poland -- including its precursor communities of
Altschottland, Langfuhr, Mattenbuden, Weinberg, and Danzig in der
Breitgasse, as well as Tiegenhof/Nowy Dwor Gdanski. The unique history of
this community and the exceptional survival of its records presents
a marvelous
opportunity for collaborative genealogical research under the JewishGen
umbrella.

If you have research interests in this area we urge you to join the Danzig
mailing list by visiting < http://lyris.jewishgen.org/listmanager >. We
also invite you to visit the website at <
http://www.jewishgen.org/Danzig >. where you will see that contributions
of family histories, memoirs, photographs, maps, and other material of
interest will be welcomed..

Details about SIG projects aimed at making Danzig genealogical resources
more accessible, will be available on the website in the very near
future. Stay tuned!

Our thanks to Logan Joseph Kleinwaks , Coordinator of the SIG and Elsebeth
Paikin, Moderator of the mailing list for taking a leadership role in
proposing and organizing this entire effort to add to the programs and
projects JewishGen provides. .

We hope you are also excited and will join us as we embark on a new era of
Danzig Jewish genealogical research. We also encourage anyone who has
interests in this area and the historical records which will ultimately
reside on JewishGen to volunteer to help with projects. Some projects
may require funding, and we would appreciate your support in the form of
tax-deductible (in the U.S. and Canada) donations via the dedicated
JewishGen-erosity page
<
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=31 >

Please join us in welcoming the research opportunities which the JewishGen
Danzig/Gdansk SIG will provide to all with an interest.

Carol and Vivian

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects

Vivian Kahn, Vice President
SIG Liaison
.


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland JewishGen welcomes the Danzig/Gdansk SIG #lodz #poland

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Dear Friends,
JewishGen is extremely pleased to announce the formation of the JewishGen
Danzig/Gdansk Special Interest Group (SIG), which will focus specifically on
Danzig -- now Gdansk, Poland -- including its precursor communities of
Altschottland, Langfuhr, Mattenbuden, Weinberg, and Danzig in der
Breitgasse, as well as Tiegenhof/Nowy Dwor Gdanski. The unique history of
this community and the exceptional survival of its records presents
a marvelous
opportunity for collaborative genealogical research under the JewishGen
umbrella.

If you have research interests in this area we urge you to join the Danzig
mailing list by visiting < http://lyris.jewishgen.org/listmanager >. We
also invite you to visit the website at <
http://www.jewishgen.org/Danzig >. where you will see that contributions
of family histories, memoirs, photographs, maps, and other material of
interest will be welcomed..

Details about SIG projects aimed at making Danzig genealogical resources
more accessible, will be available on the website in the very near
future. Stay tuned!

Our thanks to Logan Joseph Kleinwaks , Coordinator of the SIG and Elsebeth
Paikin, Moderator of the mailing list for taking a leadership role in
proposing and organizing this entire effort to add to the programs and
projects JewishGen provides. .

We hope you are also excited and will join us as we embark on a new era of
Danzig Jewish genealogical research. We also encourage anyone who has
interests in this area and the historical records which will ultimately
reside on JewishGen to volunteer to help with projects. Some projects
may require funding, and we would appreciate your support in the form of
tax-deductible (in the U.S. and Canada) donations via the dedicated
JewishGen-erosity page
<
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=31 >

Please join us in welcoming the research opportunities which the JewishGen
Danzig/Gdansk SIG will provide to all with an interest.

Carol and Vivian

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects

Vivian Kahn, Vice President
SIG Liaison
.


Re: Family Surname Mysteries #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

"Linda Shefler" < linsilv@nc.rr.com > wrote:

Please tell me if this logic makes sense: Since Fishel and
PLOTKER/PLOTKE/PLOTKA mean "fish", does it seem logical that in order to
keep the secret of the origin of the family name (and it was definitely a
secret) Max and Sima gave Yeruhim Fishel a redundant last name (in other
words he became Yeruhim Fish Fish) so that they could then use the SILVERMAN
name?
This does not seem reasonable to me as it is overly complex, seeking a
unique explanation where the common ones may apply. These folks came from
the Russian Empire where names were written in Cyrillic letters.
Transliterating >from Cyrillic to the Latin characters used in the US and
Western Europe often resulted in confusion between "Z" and "S" where some
time was required before the spelling of teh name stabilized. My
grandfather was "ZAVODNIK" but his entire family's passenger list entry is
for "SAVODNIK" Some families retained the "Z" others still use the "S"
Even in the 1950, many Americans had difficulty with the letter "Z", having
rarely if ever encountered it at the beginning of a surname. The writing of
the letter in script was sometimes not even taught in the schools. (It was
not taught in mine, and my suname begins with it. I had quite a time
figuting out how to render it in my signature as a child and hope to have it
recognizable.)

A relative told me that her mother used to say that the family's name was
originally deSILVA/daSILVA; that they originated in Toledo, Spain and were
jewelers.
The jewelry connection would seem to support some form of "ZILBER", but
"deSilva" or "daSilva" in Spanish means "of the forrest." It does not
suggest a jewelry connection.

I know it didn't work
that way, but when Mordechai applied for US citizenship in 1891, it was
under the name of Silverman. How could he legally change his name before
becoming a citizen?
Easilly, one simply began using a different name. Even today that is only
illegal if done with intent to decieve or defraud. Besides, US citizenship
was *never* required before one could formally change a name in court.

I have not been able to find any immigration records either through Castle
Garden or Hamburg for a family fitting the description of my family under
the name of SILVERMAN/ZILBERMAN; APPLEBAUM (in all it's variations) or
PLOTKER (in all it's variations). I have also gone through the two volumes
of "the Road to Letichev" and wasn't able to locate anyone that seemed to fit.
According to Beider's "Dictionary of Jewish Surnames >from the Russian
Empire" there were many variants of "ZILBER" (>from "silver"), including
"ZILBERMAN" in use as surnames. The fact that you have not found your
people in passenger lists for one American port of arrival and one European
departure port does not mean they did not use that name or one similar to
it. There were a good many other ports available, both for European
departure and American arrival.


Question: Is anyone familiar with Sephardic research aware of a
deSILVA/daSILVA family of jewelers >from Toledo, Spain?
Be cautious. This family story may well be a reference to the distant past,
to the time before Spain expelled the Jews in 1492. As such, the folklore
becomes very think and often impossible to document. Toledo was certainly a
center of metal working of all sorts, and thus a potential origin of a
jeweler.

Question: Does anyone have any suggestions as to where else or even how
else I might look for the immigration records?
Check indexes for other ports of entry (Boston, Montreal, Philadelphia,
etc.)


--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Family Surname Mysteries #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

"Linda Shefler" < linsilv@nc.rr.com > wrote:

Please tell me if this logic makes sense: Since Fishel and
PLOTKER/PLOTKE/PLOTKA mean "fish", does it seem logical that in order to
keep the secret of the origin of the family name (and it was definitely a
secret) Max and Sima gave Yeruhim Fishel a redundant last name (in other
words he became Yeruhim Fish Fish) so that they could then use the SILVERMAN
name?
This does not seem reasonable to me as it is overly complex, seeking a
unique explanation where the common ones may apply. These folks came from
the Russian Empire where names were written in Cyrillic letters.
Transliterating >from Cyrillic to the Latin characters used in the US and
Western Europe often resulted in confusion between "Z" and "S" where some
time was required before the spelling of teh name stabilized. My
grandfather was "ZAVODNIK" but his entire family's passenger list entry is
for "SAVODNIK" Some families retained the "Z" others still use the "S"
Even in the 1950, many Americans had difficulty with the letter "Z", having
rarely if ever encountered it at the beginning of a surname. The writing of
the letter in script was sometimes not even taught in the schools. (It was
not taught in mine, and my suname begins with it. I had quite a time
figuting out how to render it in my signature as a child and hope to have it
recognizable.)

A relative told me that her mother used to say that the family's name was
originally deSILVA/daSILVA; that they originated in Toledo, Spain and were
jewelers.
The jewelry connection would seem to support some form of "ZILBER", but
"deSilva" or "daSilva" in Spanish means "of the forrest." It does not
suggest a jewelry connection.

I know it didn't work
that way, but when Mordechai applied for US citizenship in 1891, it was
under the name of Silverman. How could he legally change his name before
becoming a citizen?
Easilly, one simply began using a different name. Even today that is only
illegal if done with intent to decieve or defraud. Besides, US citizenship
was *never* required before one could formally change a name in court.

I have not been able to find any immigration records either through Castle
Garden or Hamburg for a family fitting the description of my family under
the name of SILVERMAN/ZILBERMAN; APPLEBAUM (in all it's variations) or
PLOTKER (in all it's variations). I have also gone through the two volumes
of "the Road to Letichev" and wasn't able to locate anyone that seemed to fit.
According to Beider's "Dictionary of Jewish Surnames >from the Russian
Empire" there were many variants of "ZILBER" (>from "silver"), including
"ZILBERMAN" in use as surnames. The fact that you have not found your
people in passenger lists for one American port of arrival and one European
departure port does not mean they did not use that name or one similar to
it. There were a good many other ports available, both for European
departure and American arrival.


Question: Is anyone familiar with Sephardic research aware of a
deSILVA/daSILVA family of jewelers >from Toledo, Spain?
Be cautious. This family story may well be a reference to the distant past,
to the time before Spain expelled the Jews in 1492. As such, the folklore
becomes very think and often impossible to document. Toledo was certainly a
center of metal working of all sorts, and thus a potential origin of a
jeweler.

Question: Does anyone have any suggestions as to where else or even how
else I might look for the immigration records?
Check indexes for other ports of entry (Boston, Montreal, Philadelphia,
etc.)


--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY


Re: Urgent request from Yad Vashem #general

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Hi,

Yes by all means let no holocaust victim be forgotten! But for the sake
of historical accuracy be sure when you list them to either include only
information that you are certain is true, or if your making assumptions
please label them as such. I found that in the pages of testimony >from
my families shtetl many people were listed as having died in Treblinka,
but this very, very likely only an assumption by the person who listed
them, and not something for which there was any evidence. There are a
number of other possibilities as where else and how else many of these
people were murdered other than at Treblinka. Also I found one prominent
individual >from the town who was listed as having died in Treblinka but
I know for a fact that he was arrested by the Soviets in 1940 and died
in Siberia. He was not a Nazi holocaust victim at all. Keep in mind a
need for truth and accuracy.

Tilford Bartman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Urgent request from Yad Vashem #general

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Hi,

Yes by all means let no holocaust victim be forgotten! But for the sake
of historical accuracy be sure when you list them to either include only
information that you are certain is true, or if your making assumptions
please label them as such. I found that in the pages of testimony >from
my families shtetl many people were listed as having died in Treblinka,
but this very, very likely only an assumption by the person who listed
them, and not something for which there was any evidence. There are a
number of other possibilities as where else and how else many of these
people were murdered other than at Treblinka. Also I found one prominent
individual >from the town who was listed as having died in Treblinka but
I know for a fact that he was arrested by the Soviets in 1940 and died
in Siberia. He was not a Nazi holocaust victim at all. Keep in mind a
need for truth and accuracy.

Tilford Bartman