Date   
Hungarian Vital Records #hungary

Sam Schleman <Samara99@...>
 

H-SIG has some exciting news to announce!

A formal Vital Records Project is being created, to transcribe and create
indexes to Hungarian vital records.

As a result of various measures and rules that were promulgated during the
nineteenth century, local religious authorities began in the early to mid
1850's to maintain registers listing births, deaths and marriages throughout
the Jewish communities within Hungary. These records represent a treasure
trove of genealogical information about 19th century people and communities.
In October, 1895 these registers were officially discontinued in favor of
national civil registers, although some Jewish communities continued to
maintain their own records.

At this point in time, over 30,000 vital records have been transcribed and
added to the All-Hungarian Database. Until recently, this effort was an
informal process of various H-SIG members volunteering to transcribe records
that were of interest to them. Carol Robinson, the H-SIG Research
Coordinator, has guided these efforts, along with continuing to perform her
numerous other functions.

However, in recognition of the enormity of this effort, H-SIG is now
establishing this as a formal project. Sam Schleman, who has done some of
the past transcriptions, has volunteered to serve as the coordinator of this
project.

The primary source for these records are digitized images taken >from the
microfilms created by the Mormons. In addition, other sources are also being
utilized, including the post-1895 civil registers. Some records have also
been obtained directly >from the Hungarian National Archives or other
governmental sources by individual transcribers.

While transcribers and validators can work directly >from microfilms at their
local Family History Center, if they so choose, we anticipate that most will
choose to transcribe >from digital images in the comfort of their own homes.
The only requirements are an ability to work with photographic images on
your computer and to use Microsoft Excel spreadsheets, as well as
dedication, perseverance, patience, and some talent in reading names written
in 19th century script. No language skills are necessary. Column headings
may be in German, Hungarian or both, but a guide has been created to provide
you with the needed translations.

We need volunteers! If you are interested in volunteering, please contact
our coordinator for the project, Sam Schleman, at Samara99@....

Thanks,

Carol J. Robinson, Alameda, CA

Sam Schleman, Malvern, PA

Moderator: If you are willing and able to participate in this effort, please contact Sam Schleman or Carol Robinson off-list.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian Vital Records #hungary

Sam Schleman <Samara99@...>
 

H-SIG has some exciting news to announce!

A formal Vital Records Project is being created, to transcribe and create
indexes to Hungarian vital records.

As a result of various measures and rules that were promulgated during the
nineteenth century, local religious authorities began in the early to mid
1850's to maintain registers listing births, deaths and marriages throughout
the Jewish communities within Hungary. These records represent a treasure
trove of genealogical information about 19th century people and communities.
In October, 1895 these registers were officially discontinued in favor of
national civil registers, although some Jewish communities continued to
maintain their own records.

At this point in time, over 30,000 vital records have been transcribed and
added to the All-Hungarian Database. Until recently, this effort was an
informal process of various H-SIG members volunteering to transcribe records
that were of interest to them. Carol Robinson, the H-SIG Research
Coordinator, has guided these efforts, along with continuing to perform her
numerous other functions.

However, in recognition of the enormity of this effort, H-SIG is now
establishing this as a formal project. Sam Schleman, who has done some of
the past transcriptions, has volunteered to serve as the coordinator of this
project.

The primary source for these records are digitized images taken >from the
microfilms created by the Mormons. In addition, other sources are also being
utilized, including the post-1895 civil registers. Some records have also
been obtained directly >from the Hungarian National Archives or other
governmental sources by individual transcribers.

While transcribers and validators can work directly >from microfilms at their
local Family History Center, if they so choose, we anticipate that most will
choose to transcribe >from digital images in the comfort of their own homes.
The only requirements are an ability to work with photographic images on
your computer and to use Microsoft Excel spreadsheets, as well as
dedication, perseverance, patience, and some talent in reading names written
in 19th century script. No language skills are necessary. Column headings
may be in German, Hungarian or both, but a guide has been created to provide
you with the needed translations.

We need volunteers! If you are interested in volunteering, please contact
our coordinator for the project, Sam Schleman, at Samara99@....

Thanks,

Carol J. Robinson, Alameda, CA

Sam Schleman, Malvern, PA

Moderator: If you are willing and able to participate in this effort, please contact Sam Schleman or Carol Robinson off-list.

Re: BONDI #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 4/20/2006 10:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
stanklaff@... writes:

< Bondi is not uncommon - a search of the White Pages in Italy reveal at least
< at 50 ...
< Also Bondi Beach in Australia >

==Thanks, I'm not surprised. As I wrote, one particular BONDI is a king
figure in Italian politics.

==My question was specifically about Jewish BONDIs in Italy. And, just as a
curiosity: I know that Bondi Beach has, or had, a large Jewish population.
Is it named after a Jew?

Michael Bernet, New York

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: BONDI #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 4/20/2006 10:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
stanklaff@... writes:

< Bondi is not uncommon - a search of the White Pages in Italy reveal at least
< at 50 ...
< Also Bondi Beach in Australia >

==Thanks, I'm not surprised. As I wrote, one particular BONDI is a king
figure in Italian politics.

==My question was specifically about Jewish BONDIs in Italy. And, just as a
curiosity: I know that Bondi Beach has, or had, a large Jewish population.
Is it named after a Jew?

Michael Bernet, New York

Re: Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

lynnsaul@...
 

I am not a scientist, but I've been following this issue for a number of
years. Maybe scientists in the group can add more accuracy.

However, my basic understanding of the Haplogroup research is that it
determines the population >from which one comes. Just because someone
lived in a certain region doesn't mean that their genetic origin came from
that place. The haplogroup would point to earlier migrations.

This is all based on identifying mutations happening within a population
that then separates >from the previous group.

Lynn Saul
Tucson AZ

Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg


H-SIG Digest for Monday, April 17, 2006.

1. Haplogroup K
2. Using census data in AHD
3. Re: DNA and Hungarian

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Haplogroup K
From: Vivian Kahn <vkahn@...>
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:58:41 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1

Dear Ethel,

All of my grandparents and my father were born in pre-Trianon
Hungary. My mother was born in NYC a few years after her parents
arrived. I am Haplogroup K and have the same mutations that are
shared by many other Ashkenazi Jews. Some lived in Hungary, others
in the Ukraine, Russia, Lithuania, and other places where Ashkenazi
Jews settled. I'm not inclined to share my medical history with the
world but find genetic research of interest because it may help us
to trace migration patterns.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
Moderator: I've revised the subject line to more accurately reflect the
content of the message. PLEASE revise subject lines as necessary. This
will help others to find and respond to the messages you post.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

lynnsaul@...
 

I am not a scientist, but I've been following this issue for a number of
years. Maybe scientists in the group can add more accuracy.

However, my basic understanding of the Haplogroup research is that it
determines the population >from which one comes. Just because someone
lived in a certain region doesn't mean that their genetic origin came from
that place. The haplogroup would point to earlier migrations.

This is all based on identifying mutations happening within a population
that then separates >from the previous group.

Lynn Saul
Tucson AZ

Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg


H-SIG Digest for Monday, April 17, 2006.

1. Haplogroup K
2. Using census data in AHD
3. Re: DNA and Hungarian

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Haplogroup K
From: Vivian Kahn <vkahn@...>
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:58:41 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1

Dear Ethel,

All of my grandparents and my father were born in pre-Trianon
Hungary. My mother was born in NYC a few years after her parents
arrived. I am Haplogroup K and have the same mutations that are
shared by many other Ashkenazi Jews. Some lived in Hungary, others
in the Ukraine, Russia, Lithuania, and other places where Ashkenazi
Jews settled. I'm not inclined to share my medical history with the
world but find genetic research of interest because it may help us
to trace migration patterns.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
Moderator: I've revised the subject line to more accurately reflect the
content of the message. PLEASE revise subject lines as necessary. This
will help others to find and respond to the messages you post.

Re: Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

Assuming that this result is reproducible (i.e.not >from lab error), then the obvious conclusion is that somewhere along your direct maternal line, someone had that dna, and passed it down. it just means that you don't share a common (in this case, direct female) ancestor with people of different haplogroups. (at least on the maternal side there isn't the problem of questionable paternity.) but i don't think researchers have ever found, or will ever find, a (non-trivial) completely homogenous population.

since neither judaism in general, not hungarian jews in particular, exclude marriage >from outside the group (whether due to migration or conversion), this would be expected in any group being studied. hungarian jewish history in particular is rich in anecdotal evidence of many origins, >from roman times and magyar tribes to khazars, turks, and polish jews >from galicia, combined with the ebb and flow of political fortune (and antisemitism).

and this is the reason why dna researchers will only draw conclusions about general group patterns, rather than about any given individual.



....... tom klein, toronto

Leslie Weinberg <lbw50@...> wrote:

Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg

Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

SVass@...
 

<<Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg>>


First the group below is the one containing the expertise to answer your question:
GENEALOGY-DNA-D-request@...

Second, there is NO Hungarian dna applying to Jews, Gentiles, males or females.

I strongly recommend that you check the matches section of your dna page if you are using FTDNA. The origin of those people will indicate your deep origin. Another option is to enter your mtDNA in www.mitosearch.org and/or your yDNA in www.ysearch.org and search for matches and near matches. Again these "hits" will tell you a lot. The other day, I pointed out that my yDNA matches were all Jews >from nearby countries. My mtDNA matches (my mother was of Latvian/Lithuanian origin are again all Jews >from Lithuania and Belarus with an exception of one >from Alsace.

Jews were migrants and entered Europe after the local populations as a rule. Yes, some Jews married locals and their dna entered the pool. Yes, some may discover that their ancestors were Khazars about which there is an occasional spirited dispute.

(As a side note, a brief reading at Wikipedia indicates that mtDNA A is Native American! )

Sam Vass, Kent, WA, USA

HILLEL = Julius? #general

MBernet@...
 

I have just discovered that Julian the Apostate in 362 penned his "Letter to
the Jews" >from Antioch and addressed it to "brother Julos [i.e. Julius],
the patriarch" --known to us as the Tanna, Rabbi Hillel the Second, who
finalized the formula for the perpetual Jewish calendar.

Does anyone know of the use of Julius as a kinnuy for Hillel elsewhere or at
other times. [Full disclosure: my late father, Julius (b. Bamberg, 1898)
bore the Hebrew name YomTov]

Michael Bernet, New York

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

Assuming that this result is reproducible (i.e.not >from lab error), then the obvious conclusion is that somewhere along your direct maternal line, someone had that dna, and passed it down. it just means that you don't share a common (in this case, direct female) ancestor with people of different haplogroups. (at least on the maternal side there isn't the problem of questionable paternity.) but i don't think researchers have ever found, or will ever find, a (non-trivial) completely homogenous population.

since neither judaism in general, not hungarian jews in particular, exclude marriage >from outside the group (whether due to migration or conversion), this would be expected in any group being studied. hungarian jewish history in particular is rich in anecdotal evidence of many origins, >from roman times and magyar tribes to khazars, turks, and polish jews >from galicia, combined with the ebb and flow of political fortune (and antisemitism).

and this is the reason why dna researchers will only draw conclusions about general group patterns, rather than about any given individual.



....... tom klein, toronto

Leslie Weinberg <lbw50@...> wrote:

Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg

Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

SVass@...
 

<<Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg>>


First the group below is the one containing the expertise to answer your question:
GENEALOGY-DNA-D-request@...

Second, there is NO Hungarian dna applying to Jews, Gentiles, males or females.

I strongly recommend that you check the matches section of your dna page if you are using FTDNA. The origin of those people will indicate your deep origin. Another option is to enter your mtDNA in www.mitosearch.org and/or your yDNA in www.ysearch.org and search for matches and near matches. Again these "hits" will tell you a lot. The other day, I pointed out that my yDNA matches were all Jews >from nearby countries. My mtDNA matches (my mother was of Latvian/Lithuanian origin are again all Jews >from Lithuania and Belarus with an exception of one >from Alsace.

Jews were migrants and entered Europe after the local populations as a rule. Yes, some Jews married locals and their dna entered the pool. Yes, some may discover that their ancestors were Khazars about which there is an occasional spirited dispute.

(As a side note, a brief reading at Wikipedia indicates that mtDNA A is Native American! )

Sam Vass, Kent, WA, USA

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen HILLEL = Julius? #general

MBernet@...
 

I have just discovered that Julian the Apostate in 362 penned his "Letter to
the Jews" >from Antioch and addressed it to "brother Julos [i.e. Julius],
the patriarch" --known to us as the Tanna, Rabbi Hillel the Second, who
finalized the formula for the perpetual Jewish calendar.

Does anyone know of the use of Julius as a kinnuy for Hillel elsewhere or at
other times. [Full disclosure: my late father, Julius (b. Bamberg, 1898)
bore the Hebrew name YomTov]

Michael Bernet, New York

Re: Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

Robert Neu
 

Have you looked up the characteristics of Haplogroup A777 ?
That would give you some clue. Here is one link and lists very broad genetic geographic
definitions. Remember that both Israel and Babylonia are in Asia though usually defined as Middle
East. Even some Jews >from Babylonia ended up in Hungary. There is also a so-calles "Khazar
theory".

http://www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/gene_intro.html
A, B, F - these haplogroups represent about 23% of the Asian mtDNA

Go also to: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v70n5/013567/013567.html

This one is more verbose but does briefly indicate after Fig. 4 that some A mtdnas are "not" Asian
without more specifics.

If you have time "google" with "mtdna haplogroups" in the search

Also be aware that studies still rely on relatively small samples (a total of 69 when you get down
to all the entire A mtdna haplogroups in the last example.) Also these groupings are not talking
about "genealogical time frames of let us up to (generously) 3000 years , but rather so called
genetic time frames of 10 to 50,000 years.

Remember that any mt genetic markings can go back many generations, and that your haplogroup is
but a mutation >from a larger haplotype. Also Hungarian Jews have only been in Hungary at the
earliest >from the 1700's (about 12 generations at the most.). Also conversion >from none Jewish
mothers to Judaism were not "that" unusual.

Leslie Weinberg <lbw50@...> wrote:
Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg

Elm St. & Walnut St. Synagogues, Chelsea, Ma. Help Needed #general

Lisa
 

Dear Group,

A relative who helped to bring my grandmother to America was once the
president of both the Elm St. Synagogue and the Walnut St. Synagogue in Chelsea,
Mass., sometime before his death in 1949.
I am wondering if he might have purchased yahrzeit plaques for his mother and
grandparents who never came to America. If so, they might have dates on them
as well as information regarding their father's names.
I heard that the Walnut St. Synagogue still exists but I have no information
about the Elm St. Synagogue. Is there anyone associated with either of these
two synagogues who would guide or help me on how to find this information about
these old yahrzeit plaques?

Many Thanks,
Lisa Brahin Weinblatt
New Jersey, USA
E-Mail: REDBALL62@...

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hungarian Genetic Groups #hungary

Robert Neu
 

Have you looked up the characteristics of Haplogroup A777 ?
That would give you some clue. Here is one link and lists very broad genetic geographic
definitions. Remember that both Israel and Babylonia are in Asia though usually defined as Middle
East. Even some Jews >from Babylonia ended up in Hungary. There is also a so-calles "Khazar
theory".

http://www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/gene_intro.html
A, B, F - these haplogroups represent about 23% of the Asian mtDNA

Go also to: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v70n5/013567/013567.html

This one is more verbose but does briefly indicate after Fig. 4 that some A mtdnas are "not" Asian
without more specifics.

If you have time "google" with "mtdna haplogroups" in the search

Also be aware that studies still rely on relatively small samples (a total of 69 when you get down
to all the entire A mtdna haplogroups in the last example.) Also these groupings are not talking
about "genealogical time frames of let us up to (generously) 3000 years , but rather so called
genetic time frames of 10 to 50,000 years.

Remember that any mt genetic markings can go back many generations, and that your haplogroup is
but a mutation >from a larger haplotype. Also Hungarian Jews have only been in Hungary at the
earliest >from the 1700's (about 12 generations at the most.). Also conversion >from none Jewish
mothers to Judaism were not "that" unusual.

Leslie Weinberg <lbw50@...> wrote:
Okay, can someone explain to me, having descended >from a Hungarian
speaking grandmother (great grandparents >from the same town) how I
wound up mtDNA Haplogroup A??? Leslie Weinberg

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Elm St. & Walnut St. Synagogues, Chelsea, Ma. Help Needed #general

Lisa
 

Dear Group,

A relative who helped to bring my grandmother to America was once the
president of both the Elm St. Synagogue and the Walnut St. Synagogue in Chelsea,
Mass., sometime before his death in 1949.
I am wondering if he might have purchased yahrzeit plaques for his mother and
grandparents who never came to America. If so, they might have dates on them
as well as information regarding their father's names.
I heard that the Walnut St. Synagogue still exists but I have no information
about the Elm St. Synagogue. Is there anyone associated with either of these
two synagogues who would guide or help me on how to find this information about
these old yahrzeit plaques?

Many Thanks,
Lisa Brahin Weinblatt
New Jersey, USA
E-Mail: REDBALL62@...

Looking for Neumann Family #hungary

levinson <levinson@...>
 

Dear All,
My ggfather Benjamin-Zeev or Wolf or Farkas Neumann was born on 1857 in
Luka-Nenye, Hont County (now Nenince, Slovakia) to Salomon Neumann and Roza
Klein. My father says that N. Farkas had brothers but he cannot remember
their names.He assumes that the family moved to Korpona, Hont County (now
Krupina, Slovakia).
*Can you advise me what to do in order to get more info about my ggfather
family?*
N. Farkas married Kohn Frida in unknown date. They lived in Losonc (now
Lucenec, Slovakia) where two of their children were born: Gyula and Vilma.
They moved to Kormoczbanya, Bars County (now Kremnica, Slovakia) where two
of their children were born: my gmother Jolan-Frumet (1895) and Artur
(1898).
They moved (perhaps during world war one) to Budapest where they run a
coffee shop.
Neumann Farkas died in Budapest, 1933.
Kohn Frida died in Dregelypalank in 1942.

Siblings:
Gyula changed his name to Nemes, married Iren Hupert and lived in Pelsoc,
Gomor es Kis-Hont County (now Plesivec, Slovakia). They had a son named
Endre. Gyula and Iren perished in the holocaust. Endre immigrated to USA and
lived in Chicago. We lost contact with him during the 60'. *How can I find
any info about Nemes Endre?*
Vilma married Kalman Fischer >from Banska Bystrica (Slovakia) and lived in
Pest. Kalman disappear in 1944. Their son Tibor came back >from the Russian
front married and had two sons. I don’t know his wife and boys names. Tibor
died in the 50' and Vilma in the 60'.
My gmother married Rezso Hochfelder in 1916. Both died in the holocaust.
Artur died in world war one.

*Does it sound familiar to anyone? Any advise how to get further
information?*

Esther Levinson
Beer Sheeva, Israel
levinson@...

Hungary SIG #Hungary Looking for Neumann Family #hungary

levinson <levinson@...>
 

Dear All,
My ggfather Benjamin-Zeev or Wolf or Farkas Neumann was born on 1857 in
Luka-Nenye, Hont County (now Nenince, Slovakia) to Salomon Neumann and Roza
Klein. My father says that N. Farkas had brothers but he cannot remember
their names.He assumes that the family moved to Korpona, Hont County (now
Krupina, Slovakia).
*Can you advise me what to do in order to get more info about my ggfather
family?*
N. Farkas married Kohn Frida in unknown date. They lived in Losonc (now
Lucenec, Slovakia) where two of their children were born: Gyula and Vilma.
They moved to Kormoczbanya, Bars County (now Kremnica, Slovakia) where two
of their children were born: my gmother Jolan-Frumet (1895) and Artur
(1898).
They moved (perhaps during world war one) to Budapest where they run a
coffee shop.
Neumann Farkas died in Budapest, 1933.
Kohn Frida died in Dregelypalank in 1942.

Siblings:
Gyula changed his name to Nemes, married Iren Hupert and lived in Pelsoc,
Gomor es Kis-Hont County (now Plesivec, Slovakia). They had a son named
Endre. Gyula and Iren perished in the holocaust. Endre immigrated to USA and
lived in Chicago. We lost contact with him during the 60'. *How can I find
any info about Nemes Endre?*
Vilma married Kalman Fischer >from Banska Bystrica (Slovakia) and lived in
Pest. Kalman disappear in 1944. Their son Tibor came back >from the Russian
front married and had two sons. I don’t know his wife and boys names. Tibor
died in the 50' and Vilma in the 60'.
My gmother married Rezso Hochfelder in 1916. Both died in the holocaust.
Artur died in world war one.

*Does it sound familiar to anyone? Any advise how to get further
information?*

Esther Levinson
Beer Sheeva, Israel
levinson@...

Hungarian Language Help #hungary

Sam Schleman <Samara99@...>
 

I have been working on a translation guide that can be used with Hungarian
post-1895 civil records, so that I (and others) can understand all the
entries on the forms used. Not all of the words or terms encountered
could be translated by the online dictionary I use
(http://consulting.medios.fi/dictionary/).

I need someone who knows Hungarian to look at the guide, to fill in the
translations that I could not, and to look over the translations that I have
done to ensure that they are correct and convey the correct meaning.

If you would be able to help, please contact me off-list at
Samara99@.... What I would be sending to you would be a three-page
spreadsheet that is 27 KB in size.

Thanks for your help.

Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA
Samara99@...

Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian Language Help #hungary

Sam Schleman <Samara99@...>
 

I have been working on a translation guide that can be used with Hungarian
post-1895 civil records, so that I (and others) can understand all the
entries on the forms used. Not all of the words or terms encountered
could be translated by the online dictionary I use
(http://consulting.medios.fi/dictionary/).

I need someone who knows Hungarian to look at the guide, to fill in the
translations that I could not, and to look over the translations that I have
done to ensure that they are correct and convey the correct meaning.

If you would be able to help, please contact me off-list at
Samara99@.... What I would be sending to you would be a three-page
spreadsheet that is 27 KB in size.

Thanks for your help.

Sam Schleman
Malvern, PA
Samara99@...