Date   

Re: *Re: Dismoshowa ??, Hungary #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

The first rule of using these online databases (such as ellis island or yad vashem) is: always, always, always look at the scanned image, if it's available.

in this case, it is line 22 of the manifest at:

<http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipmanifest.asp?FNM=GYORGY&;LNM=GERGELY&PLNM=GERGELY&CGD=M&first_kind=1&last_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=20&pID=104239080067&MID=02805580540250832832&>.

with only a little bit of magnification, the place of birth is quite clearly written as "disznoshorvat" (which is in Borsod megye).

the trouble with d-m soundex is that it doesn't take into account hungarian spelling or pronunciation ("dish-mosh-hova"), and so it can be misleading. a variation, based on hungarian rather than Polish/russian/yiddish, would be very handy.


....... tom klein, toronto

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote:

A Soundex analysis reveals that DISMOSHOWA and TEMESVAR are phonetically very similar. TIMOSOARA too.

Peter <thidas@sympatico.ca> wrote:

If you say it quickly, it sound like Temesvar.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: *Re: Dismoshowa ??, Hungary #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

The first rule of using these online databases (such as ellis island or yad vashem) is: always, always, always look at the scanned image, if it's available.

in this case, it is line 22 of the manifest at:

<http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipmanifest.asp?FNM=GYORGY&;LNM=GERGELY&PLNM=GERGELY&CGD=M&first_kind=1&last_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=20&pID=104239080067&MID=02805580540250832832&>.

with only a little bit of magnification, the place of birth is quite clearly written as "disznoshorvat" (which is in Borsod megye).

the trouble with d-m soundex is that it doesn't take into account hungarian spelling or pronunciation ("dish-mosh-hova"), and so it can be misleading. a variation, based on hungarian rather than Polish/russian/yiddish, would be very handy.


....... tom klein, toronto

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote:

A Soundex analysis reveals that DISMOSHOWA and TEMESVAR are phonetically very similar. TIMOSOARA too.

Peter <thidas@sympatico.ca> wrote:

If you say it quickly, it sound like Temesvar.


Re: Procedures at Ellis Island: Was the newcomer given... #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Regarding "name change at Ellis Island"--

You refer to "official papers" on which something was written down.
What kind of papers would those have been? Given the zillions of people
who passed through Ellis Island, wouldn't some of those papers survive?

If Ms. Suberman *has* such a document, or knows where to find one, I'm
sure many people would be interested. If not, we're left with the fact
of the check-marks on the manifests. What does the manifest say about
her father?

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA

adamsny@f2s.com wrote:

*****
If there is any truth to the book "The Jew Store," written by Stella Suberman
(excellent book), it happened to her father when he arrived at Ellis Island.

According to the author her father left Podolska and immigrated to the United
States around 1910 +/-. Her father spoke Yiddish and a bit of Russian. When
asked his name by officials at Ellis Island, Stella's father, not speaking
English, did not answer. Asked again he answered "Avram Droskowitz." It was
written down on the official papers. The name used in America? Aaron Bronson.
The store was named Bronson's Low-Priced Store.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Procedures at Ellis Island: Was the newcomer given... #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Regarding "name change at Ellis Island"--

You refer to "official papers" on which something was written down.
What kind of papers would those have been? Given the zillions of people
who passed through Ellis Island, wouldn't some of those papers survive?

If Ms. Suberman *has* such a document, or knows where to find one, I'm
sure many people would be interested. If not, we're left with the fact
of the check-marks on the manifests. What does the manifest say about
her father?

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA

adamsny@f2s.com wrote:

*****
If there is any truth to the book "The Jew Store," written by Stella Suberman
(excellent book), it happened to her father when he arrived at Ellis Island.

According to the author her father left Podolska and immigrated to the United
States around 1910 +/-. Her father spoke Yiddish and a bit of Russian. When
asked his name by officials at Ellis Island, Stella's father, not speaking
English, did not answer. Asked again he answered "Avram Droskowitz." It was
written down on the official papers. The name used in America? Aaron Bronson.
The store was named Bronson's Low-Priced Store.


Re: .... Questions about Naturalization Distric #2 #general

HJB <hjb@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
Ilya Zeldes of Fort Myers, Florida wrote
"2x-148658 1/28/43" is a handwritten notation on a passenger record. It
means that a Certificate of Arrival was sent to the Naturalization District
#2 on January 28, 1943. According to information available, the District #2
was the INS Naturalization Office in New York, NY. Its boundary and Jurisdiction
were in the Southern NY.May someone please tell me where this office was and
where it is now (the street address)? I mean, where should I write to and
ask for > records?
.................
Jef Barnett of Bensalem, PA responded:

Having just gone thru the process of trying to find someone using a similar
notation, it is not as easy as would be hoped>
The cert of arrival number is NOT something that is indexed anywhere. I just
means that the petition for naturalization was applied for in the Southern
District of NY (hence the #2-) but as the people at the US naturalization
office in Manhattan told me (that's were the original records for that
district are held), the person may never have completed the process, or gone
to another district to get naturalized. May even been naturalized at a city
court not federal!.
The federal records are on the http://italiangen.org site and indexed by name.
I believe that this is only a listing of those who finalized their
naturalization process after 1906. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm
wondering if anyone has suggestions for pursuing records for those who
initiated and finalized the process prior to 1906 or only initiated the
process prior to 1906.

Thanks,

Hazel Sandow Boon
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Researching: HABER - Konyushki & Zurow, Galicia, NYC;
STARK - Bobrka, Galicia, NYC; BELY - Rzeszow, Galicia;
MONDSCHEIN - Brod, Galicia;
SADOVSKI/SADOWSKY - Belchatow & Lodz, Poland, NYC;
KANET/KANNETT/KANNATT - Czyzewo, Poland, NYC


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: .... Questions about Naturalization Distric #2 #general

HJB <hjb@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
Ilya Zeldes of Fort Myers, Florida wrote
"2x-148658 1/28/43" is a handwritten notation on a passenger record. It
means that a Certificate of Arrival was sent to the Naturalization District
#2 on January 28, 1943. According to information available, the District #2
was the INS Naturalization Office in New York, NY. Its boundary and Jurisdiction
were in the Southern NY.May someone please tell me where this office was and
where it is now (the street address)? I mean, where should I write to and
ask for > records?
.................
Jef Barnett of Bensalem, PA responded:

Having just gone thru the process of trying to find someone using a similar
notation, it is not as easy as would be hoped>
The cert of arrival number is NOT something that is indexed anywhere. I just
means that the petition for naturalization was applied for in the Southern
District of NY (hence the #2-) but as the people at the US naturalization
office in Manhattan told me (that's were the original records for that
district are held), the person may never have completed the process, or gone
to another district to get naturalized. May even been naturalized at a city
court not federal!.
The federal records are on the http://italiangen.org site and indexed by name.
I believe that this is only a listing of those who finalized their
naturalization process after 1906. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm
wondering if anyone has suggestions for pursuing records for those who
initiated and finalized the process prior to 1906 or only initiated the
process prior to 1906.

Thanks,

Hazel Sandow Boon
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Researching: HABER - Konyushki & Zurow, Galicia, NYC;
STARK - Bobrka, Galicia, NYC; BELY - Rzeszow, Galicia;
MONDSCHEIN - Brod, Galicia;
SADOVSKI/SADOWSKY - Belchatow & Lodz, Poland, NYC;
KANET/KANNETT/KANNATT - Czyzewo, Poland, NYC


And yet another German-Jewish genealogy program at the IAJGS Conference in August! #germany

Renee Steinig <rsteinig@...>
 

In two earlier messages, I mentioned seven lectures of special
interest to German-Jewish researchers at the August 2006
Conference on Jewish Genealogy in New York -- talks by James Bauer,
Simone Eick, Werner Frank, Karen Franklin, Roger Lustig, and Fritz Neubauer.

There's one more -- Martha Lev-Zion's conference lecture on
"Thieves and Parnassim in Central European Jewish Communities
in the Late Middle Ages." It's good to see the list growing.

For a description of these and almost 200 more programs to be
offered at the Conference, see:

www.jgsny2006.org/sessions.cfm

To register, go to: www.jgsny2006.org/registration.cfm
(by May 15 for the "early-bird" rate).

Renee Stern Steinig Dix Hills, New York, USA renee@jgsny2006.org


German SIG #Germany And yet another German-Jewish genealogy program at the IAJGS Conference in August! #germany

Renee Steinig <rsteinig@...>
 

In two earlier messages, I mentioned seven lectures of special
interest to German-Jewish researchers at the August 2006
Conference on Jewish Genealogy in New York -- talks by James Bauer,
Simone Eick, Werner Frank, Karen Franklin, Roger Lustig, and Fritz Neubauer.

There's one more -- Martha Lev-Zion's conference lecture on
"Thieves and Parnassim in Central European Jewish Communities
in the Late Middle Ages." It's good to see the list growing.

For a description of these and almost 200 more programs to be
offered at the Conference, see:

www.jgsny2006.org/sessions.cfm

To register, go to: www.jgsny2006.org/registration.cfm
(by May 15 for the "early-bird" rate).

Renee Stern Steinig Dix Hills, New York, USA renee@jgsny2006.org


Re: Ettlinger's 'Ele Toldot' - help understanding the sources #germany

Uri Rosenan <rosenan@...>
 

Hello
I possess a collection of pages >from Ellse Toldot which my father
commissioned >from Dr. Ettlinger. On the first pages he explains the
abbreviations:
Ho.757: Ho. Means Horowitz, Grabsteiner (korrigiert) edited version of
Horovitz grave registry.
sk.284-11: sk means Sefer Hakabranim (book of buriers), 284-11 means entry
no. 11 on page 284
MF.34-17: MF means Frankfurter Memmerbuch (Frankfurt's Jewish community
memory book) 34-17 means "Gemeindeexemplar" (copy of the community)entry 17
on page 34.
Re.1604 Rechenbuecher.
Jb.1604 Judenbronnenrohrbuch (?)
Be.1613 Bedebuech 1613. Correct. (Prayer books).
Li.1619 Verschd. Staedt. Judenverzeischnisse (Various city records).
AU.S.13 page 13 of what? Actually A=DC (with umlaut) Abschaffung der
Uebermenge der Juden.
Et.153-1,7 means Ettlinger, Die Frankfurter Staettigkeitsjuden 1697 /1805.
I hope this helps.

Regards, Uri Rosenan, Yehud, Israel <rosenan@012.net.il>


German SIG #Germany Re: Ettlinger's 'Ele Toldot' - help understanding the sources #germany

Uri Rosenan <rosenan@...>
 

Hello
I possess a collection of pages >from Ellse Toldot which my father
commissioned >from Dr. Ettlinger. On the first pages he explains the
abbreviations:
Ho.757: Ho. Means Horowitz, Grabsteiner (korrigiert) edited version of
Horovitz grave registry.
sk.284-11: sk means Sefer Hakabranim (book of buriers), 284-11 means entry
no. 11 on page 284
MF.34-17: MF means Frankfurter Memmerbuch (Frankfurt's Jewish community
memory book) 34-17 means "Gemeindeexemplar" (copy of the community)entry 17
on page 34.
Re.1604 Rechenbuecher.
Jb.1604 Judenbronnenrohrbuch (?)
Be.1613 Bedebuech 1613. Correct. (Prayer books).
Li.1619 Verschd. Staedt. Judenverzeischnisse (Various city records).
AU.S.13 page 13 of what? Actually A=DC (with umlaut) Abschaffung der
Uebermenge der Juden.
Et.153-1,7 means Ettlinger, Die Frankfurter Staettigkeitsjuden 1697 /1805.
I hope this helps.

Regards, Uri Rosenan, Yehud, Israel <rosenan@012.net.il>


Re: Ettlinger's 'Ele Toldot' - help understanding the sources #germany

Sarah&Laurent Kassel <kassells@...>
 

Justin is asking about the abbreviations used by Shlomo Ettlinger

Some of them are very common:

Ho is the book of epitaphs by Chief Rabbi Markus HOROVITZ "Die Inschriften
des alten Friedhofs" Frankfurt 1901. The epitaphs are numbered in
chronological order. Ettlinger often makes correction to the error of this
books. He wrote that 15 to 25% of the epitaphs have some error. It covers
the years 1272-1828.

sk is the Sefer haKabranim, register of the burial people. It is an
outstanding source. It gives the kinship of the deceased to the people
already burried nearby. When names are repeated in the same family, this
helps ort out who is who. This register was copied by Rabbi UNA and
partially published by him. Last entry is 9/14/1828.

MF is the Memorbuch of Frankfurt. Before WWII they were two copies. One is
now at the Jewish National and University Library, Jerusalem .It is
digitized and on-line.

http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/pinkasim/ffdm

It covers the years 1631-1828

You got it right for Re and Be

Jb is Judenbronnenrohrbuch recording tax on Jewish weddings. There is no
existing Jewish sources for wedding so this document is also very important.

Li is jedenlisten, covering 1380-1802. So the number is the year.

AU Abschaffung der uebermenge der Juden. I don't remember the details. I
think it is a request to expel the jews and it gives details about the
community.

Et. stands for Ettlinger. This is an early unpublished work Ettlinger
prepared on the community based on tax documents of the period 1697-1805.

Best regards, Laurent KASSEL, Moreshet, Israel <kassells@hotmail.com>


German SIG #Germany Re:Ettlinger's 'Ele Toldot' - help understanding the sources #germany

Sarah&Laurent Kassel <kassells@...>
 

Justin is asking about the abbreviations used by Shlomo Ettlinger

Some of them are very common:

Ho is the book of epitaphs by Chief Rabbi Markus HOROVITZ "Die Inschriften
des alten Friedhofs" Frankfurt 1901. The epitaphs are numbered in
chronological order. Ettlinger often makes correction to the error of this
books. He wrote that 15 to 25% of the epitaphs have some error. It covers
the years 1272-1828.

sk is the Sefer haKabranim, register of the burial people. It is an
outstanding source. It gives the kinship of the deceased to the people
already burried nearby. When names are repeated in the same family, this
helps ort out who is who. This register was copied by Rabbi UNA and
partially published by him. Last entry is 9/14/1828.

MF is the Memorbuch of Frankfurt. Before WWII they were two copies. One is
now at the Jewish National and University Library, Jerusalem .It is
digitized and on-line.

http://jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/pinkasim/ffdm

It covers the years 1631-1828

You got it right for Re and Be

Jb is Judenbronnenrohrbuch recording tax on Jewish weddings. There is no
existing Jewish sources for wedding so this document is also very important.

Li is jedenlisten, covering 1380-1802. So the number is the year.

AU Abschaffung der uebermenge der Juden. I don't remember the details. I
think it is a request to expel the jews and it gives details about the
community.

Et. stands for Ettlinger. This is an early unpublished work Ettlinger
prepared on the community based on tax documents of the period 1697-1805.

Best regards, Laurent KASSEL, Moreshet, Israel <kassells@hotmail.com>


registration versus living location #general

asbury8@...
 

I have received a bit more info re this confusing topic...which may or may
not be of help!

Let's say Mendel was a permanent resident of Lodz. His wife and kids also
were permanent residents of Lodz.

Now let's say Mendel, a permanent resident of Lodz, decided to move to
Warsaw. My understanding is that legally he should have changed his residency to
Warsaw, if he indeed intended permanent residency but, like today, people do
not always do this. It seems that people did then, like now, what worked
best for them, taking a number of variables into consideration. Reasons for
changing permanent residency: thinking he never would move back to Lodz, or
perhaps his job required him to change residency, or perhaps he would pay less
taxes at his new destination, or even, perhaps, he thought he could dodge the
draft in the new location, Warsaw. Mendel's wife and children also became
permanent residents of Warsaw, just by virtue of Mendel changing his permanent
residency.

If Mendel's son decided to return to Lodz, perhaps because he married
someone >from there, he might or might not have declared permanent residency in
Lodz. He may have registered (with the police) as a non-permanent resident.

If Mendel's son and his pregnant wife were on a trip to Danzig and the wife
went into labor and gave birth in Danzig, the child still was a permanent
resident of Warsaw, if Mendel's son never changed permanent residency to Lodz!

Tali Segal
Philadelphia, PA area

Researching SALMONOWITZ / ZELMANOWICZ, DZIALOSZYNSKI, FERENBACH, MAUS
(mostly Lodz); MAZURKIEWICZ (mostly Lodz , Skierniewice & France (maybe MAZUR);
LIPFELD (Lodz & Switzerland); CEDERBAUM (Poland); family of Benjamin MUNTER
(died at Tel Chai with Trumpeldor); GREENFELD / GRUNFELD (UK), SIERPINSKI
(Aleksandrow & Lodz), BRAM, ZAND (Lodz +), Rav. AKIVA EGER and a GERRE REBBE or
Rabbi (unsure which), b. c.1885? ; SEGAL (PA, Russia), ESTERLITZ (NY, Russia)

Ruth Hyman writes:


<< I am trying somewhat fruitlessly to find a real explanation of why
someone would be registered in one town but living in another. If
someone was originally registered, for example, in Pikiliai, did he stay
on that list through all revisions until a brand new list (it seems
there were 10 all together) was made? Forever?>>


Photos of buildings in Philadelphia? #general

asbury8@...
 

I am wondering if anyone knows of similar photos taken of buildings in
Philadelphia?

Thank you.

Tali Segal
Philadelphia, PA area

Researching SALMONOWITZ / ZELMANOWICZ, DZIALOSZYNSKI, FERENBACH, MAUS
(mostly Lodz); MAZURKIEWICZ (mostly Lodz , Skierniewice & France (maybe MAZUR);
LIPFELD (Lodz & Switzerland); CEDERBAUM (Poland); family of Benjamin MUNTER
(died at Tel Chai with Trumpeldor); GREENFELD / GRUNFELD (UK), SIERPINSKI
(Aleksandrow & Lodz), BRAM, ZAND (Lodz +), Rav. AKIVA EGER and a GERRE REBBE or
Rabbi (unsure which), b. c.1885? ; SEGAL (PA, Russia), ESTERLITZ (NY, Russia)

Todd Brody writes:

<<These photos were taken for tax purposes between 1939
and 1941. If you go to the following website, you can
find out how to order them. They are expensive.

_http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/taxphotos/home.shtml_
(http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/taxphotos/home.shtml)

snip<


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen registration versus living location #general

asbury8@...
 

I have received a bit more info re this confusing topic...which may or may
not be of help!

Let's say Mendel was a permanent resident of Lodz. His wife and kids also
were permanent residents of Lodz.

Now let's say Mendel, a permanent resident of Lodz, decided to move to
Warsaw. My understanding is that legally he should have changed his residency to
Warsaw, if he indeed intended permanent residency but, like today, people do
not always do this. It seems that people did then, like now, what worked
best for them, taking a number of variables into consideration. Reasons for
changing permanent residency: thinking he never would move back to Lodz, or
perhaps his job required him to change residency, or perhaps he would pay less
taxes at his new destination, or even, perhaps, he thought he could dodge the
draft in the new location, Warsaw. Mendel's wife and children also became
permanent residents of Warsaw, just by virtue of Mendel changing his permanent
residency.

If Mendel's son decided to return to Lodz, perhaps because he married
someone >from there, he might or might not have declared permanent residency in
Lodz. He may have registered (with the police) as a non-permanent resident.

If Mendel's son and his pregnant wife were on a trip to Danzig and the wife
went into labor and gave birth in Danzig, the child still was a permanent
resident of Warsaw, if Mendel's son never changed permanent residency to Lodz!

Tali Segal
Philadelphia, PA area

Researching SALMONOWITZ / ZELMANOWICZ, DZIALOSZYNSKI, FERENBACH, MAUS
(mostly Lodz); MAZURKIEWICZ (mostly Lodz , Skierniewice & France (maybe MAZUR);
LIPFELD (Lodz & Switzerland); CEDERBAUM (Poland); family of Benjamin MUNTER
(died at Tel Chai with Trumpeldor); GREENFELD / GRUNFELD (UK), SIERPINSKI
(Aleksandrow & Lodz), BRAM, ZAND (Lodz +), Rav. AKIVA EGER and a GERRE REBBE or
Rabbi (unsure which), b. c.1885? ; SEGAL (PA, Russia), ESTERLITZ (NY, Russia)

Ruth Hyman writes:


<< I am trying somewhat fruitlessly to find a real explanation of why
someone would be registered in one town but living in another. If
someone was originally registered, for example, in Pikiliai, did he stay
on that list through all revisions until a brand new list (it seems
there were 10 all together) was made? Forever?>>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Photos of buildings in Philadelphia? #general

asbury8@...
 

I am wondering if anyone knows of similar photos taken of buildings in
Philadelphia?

Thank you.

Tali Segal
Philadelphia, PA area

Researching SALMONOWITZ / ZELMANOWICZ, DZIALOSZYNSKI, FERENBACH, MAUS
(mostly Lodz); MAZURKIEWICZ (mostly Lodz , Skierniewice & France (maybe MAZUR);
LIPFELD (Lodz & Switzerland); CEDERBAUM (Poland); family of Benjamin MUNTER
(died at Tel Chai with Trumpeldor); GREENFELD / GRUNFELD (UK), SIERPINSKI
(Aleksandrow & Lodz), BRAM, ZAND (Lodz +), Rav. AKIVA EGER and a GERRE REBBE or
Rabbi (unsure which), b. c.1885? ; SEGAL (PA, Russia), ESTERLITZ (NY, Russia)

Todd Brody writes:

<<These photos were taken for tax purposes between 1939
and 1941. If you go to the following website, you can
find out how to order them. They are expensive.

_http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/taxphotos/home.shtml_
(http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/taxphotos/home.shtml)

snip<


Re: Establishing who is a convert #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

MBernet wrote:


==For ritual purposes, it is common for a convert to adopt the patronymic
"ben/bat Avraham Avinu" [son/daughter of our Patriarch Abraham] and the
matronymic "ben/bat Sarah Immeinu" [son/daughter of our Matriarch Sarah].
That name may be entered in a ketubah or on a tombstone, and would serve as a
obvious clue.

Dear Michael,

In Conservative Judaism, conversion is in fact required for purposes
of marriage (traditional conversaion, with mikveh for both sexes,
and with circumcision where necessary for males -- and a symbolic
circumcision by drawing blood, if already cirlcumcised). But a
convert who is called to the Torah is often nowadays styled
"So-and-so ben/bat Avraham v'Sarah" -- omitting the epithets
"avinu" and "immeinu". (But the parental names Avraham v-Sarah
still provide a clue for genealogical research purposes.)

Very occasionally an ethnic-born Jew will by serendipity have had
parents whose actual names were Abraham and Sarah. So that situation
could be somewhat ambiguous; I once heard someone called to the Torah
as ben Avraham ve-Sarah who was not in fact a convert, those were the
parents' names). But that is obviously a rare case, and many
Conservative Jews feel that in general the traditional designation
is trumped by the fact that one does not wish to remind the
individual that he or she is a convert -- which accounts for the
policy of omitting the "avinu" and "immeinu" epithets.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Establishing who is a convert #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

MBernet wrote:


==For ritual purposes, it is common for a convert to adopt the patronymic
"ben/bat Avraham Avinu" [son/daughter of our Patriarch Abraham] and the
matronymic "ben/bat Sarah Immeinu" [son/daughter of our Matriarch Sarah].
That name may be entered in a ketubah or on a tombstone, and would serve as a
obvious clue.

Dear Michael,

In Conservative Judaism, conversion is in fact required for purposes
of marriage (traditional conversaion, with mikveh for both sexes,
and with circumcision where necessary for males -- and a symbolic
circumcision by drawing blood, if already cirlcumcised). But a
convert who is called to the Torah is often nowadays styled
"So-and-so ben/bat Avraham v'Sarah" -- omitting the epithets
"avinu" and "immeinu". (But the parental names Avraham v-Sarah
still provide a clue for genealogical research purposes.)

Very occasionally an ethnic-born Jew will by serendipity have had
parents whose actual names were Abraham and Sarah. So that situation
could be somewhat ambiguous; I once heard someone called to the Torah
as ben Avraham ve-Sarah who was not in fact a convert, those were the
parents' names). But that is obviously a rare case, and many
Conservative Jews feel that in general the traditional designation
is trumped by the fact that one does not wish to remind the
individual that he or she is a convert -- which accounts for the
policy of omitting the "avinu" and "immeinu" epithets.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


2 varients of the same name #general

asbury8@...
 

I also have discovered several names for many of my family members. It appears
to me that there are Hebrew and/or Yiddish names, as well as local names,
in your case, Lithuanian. I just did a Google search for "Yoora" and did
come up with other Eastern Europeans with that name. Some of my family members
had 3 names.... For instance, my Great-grandmother's name was Yehudit. I
always knew of her by that name. I have a cousin named Yehudit in that
Great-grandmother's memory. My mother also knew she had the Yiddish name "Yidis"
(which I may not be spelling properly), the Yiddish version of Yehudit. But,
when we started the genealogical research, we found her listed as Idesa, a
name that was totally new to my mother. (Then we saw a memorial plaque in the
Lodz cemetery in her memory, placed by her son--my Great-Uncle--and she was
listed by yet another name, similar to Idesa.)

--Tali Segal
Philadelphia, PA area

Researching SALMONOWITZ / ZELMANOWICZ, DZIALOSZYNSKI, FERENBACH, MAUS
(mostly Lodz); MAZURKIEWICZ (mostly Lodz , Skierniewice & France (maybe MAZUR);
LIPFELD (Lodz & Switzerland); CEDERBAUM (Poland); family of Benjamin MUNTER
(died at Tel Chai with Trumpeldor); GREENFELD / GRUNFELD (UK), SIERPINSKI
(Aleksandrow & Lodz), BRAM, ZAND (Lodz +), Rav. AKIVA EGER and a GERRE REBBE or
Rabbi (unsure which), b. c.1885?; SEGAL (PA, Russia), ESTERLITZ (NY, Russia)

Leah Aharoni writes:
<<In my research I came across a woman listed in family records as Yoora.
When searching Lithuanian revision lists, I found a family with similar
names but there the mother is listed as Yokheved. I have never heard of a
name such as Yoora. What are the chances that this is one and the same person?>>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen 2 varients of the same name #general

asbury8@...
 

I also have discovered several names for many of my family members. It appears
to me that there are Hebrew and/or Yiddish names, as well as local names,
in your case, Lithuanian. I just did a Google search for "Yoora" and did
come up with other Eastern Europeans with that name. Some of my family members
had 3 names.... For instance, my Great-grandmother's name was Yehudit. I
always knew of her by that name. I have a cousin named Yehudit in that
Great-grandmother's memory. My mother also knew she had the Yiddish name "Yidis"
(which I may not be spelling properly), the Yiddish version of Yehudit. But,
when we started the genealogical research, we found her listed as Idesa, a
name that was totally new to my mother. (Then we saw a memorial plaque in the
Lodz cemetery in her memory, placed by her son--my Great-Uncle--and she was
listed by yet another name, similar to Idesa.)

--Tali Segal
Philadelphia, PA area

Researching SALMONOWITZ / ZELMANOWICZ, DZIALOSZYNSKI, FERENBACH, MAUS
(mostly Lodz); MAZURKIEWICZ (mostly Lodz , Skierniewice & France (maybe MAZUR);
LIPFELD (Lodz & Switzerland); CEDERBAUM (Poland); family of Benjamin MUNTER
(died at Tel Chai with Trumpeldor); GREENFELD / GRUNFELD (UK), SIERPINSKI
(Aleksandrow & Lodz), BRAM, ZAND (Lodz +), Rav. AKIVA EGER and a GERRE REBBE or
Rabbi (unsure which), b. c.1885?; SEGAL (PA, Russia), ESTERLITZ (NY, Russia)

Leah Aharoni writes:
<<In my research I came across a woman listed in family records as Yoora.
When searching Lithuanian revision lists, I found a family with similar
names but there the mother is listed as Yokheved. I have never heard of a
name such as Yoora. What are the chances that this is one and the same person?>>