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Ukraine SIG - a new small project needing volunteers #general

Janette <janettes@...>
 

As all of you who read the JewishGen Discussion Group know, Ukraine SIG has no lack
of projects going on. Because we are always brainstorming and attempting to meet
the needs of researchers, we are always thinking up new projects. Some are too
complex to begin before we make headway with the enormous number of translation and
transcription projects that are on our overloaded plate.

A new idea was just bandied about (those who suggested it and refined it will
remain nameless here, but they know who they are). The concept would be to link
each of our town pages to an audio of a native speaker saying the name of the town
in Ukrainian, Russian, and Ukrainian Yiddish.

To organize the project, we would need a volunteer to seek volunteers who speak any
or all of those three languages, who can create three sound files for each town.
Then we will link the sound files to the appropriate town page. The coordinator of
the project would organize the volunteers, assign towns, collect the sound files,
and pass them on to the webmaster to add them to the appropriate pages.

Ultimately, too, we would like to add Cyrillic Russian and Ukrainian (and perhaps,
Yiddish) spellings to the town pages, as well, but one step at a time.

First step - can someone volunteer to coordinate and organize this project? Please
respond privately to me.

Janette Silverman

Dr. Janette Silverman
JewishGen Ukraine-SIG Coordinator
ukrainesig.coordinator@gmail.com
http://www.jewishgen.org/Ukraine/default.asp
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ukraine SIG - a new small project needing volunteers #general

Janette <janettes@...>
 

As all of you who read the JewishGen Discussion Group know, Ukraine SIG has no lack
of projects going on. Because we are always brainstorming and attempting to meet
the needs of researchers, we are always thinking up new projects. Some are too
complex to begin before we make headway with the enormous number of translation and
transcription projects that are on our overloaded plate.

A new idea was just bandied about (those who suggested it and refined it will
remain nameless here, but they know who they are). The concept would be to link
each of our town pages to an audio of a native speaker saying the name of the town
in Ukrainian, Russian, and Ukrainian Yiddish.

To organize the project, we would need a volunteer to seek volunteers who speak any
or all of those three languages, who can create three sound files for each town.
Then we will link the sound files to the appropriate town page. The coordinator of
the project would organize the volunteers, assign towns, collect the sound files,
and pass them on to the webmaster to add them to the appropriate pages.

Ultimately, too, we would like to add Cyrillic Russian and Ukrainian (and perhaps,
Yiddish) spellings to the town pages, as well, but one step at a time.

First step - can someone volunteer to coordinate and organize this project? Please
respond privately to me.

Janette Silverman

Dr. Janette Silverman
JewishGen Ukraine-SIG Coordinator
ukrainesig.coordinator@gmail.com
http://www.jewishgen.org/Ukraine/default.asp
KAHN Family of Idstein in Israel #germany

Gerhard Buck <buckidstein@...>
 

A group of persons in Idstein intends to place Stolpersteine for the
victims of the Shoa. We start with the KAHN family and are interested in
information aboutthe children of Max Kahn (1875 Idstein “ 1947 New York)
and Bertha nee Hamburger (1873 Klein-Auheim “ 1938 Idstein).

Their youngest child was Kurt Kahn, born on 11.11.1912 in Idstein. In
March 1947, he lived in Kfar Monash, Palestine without a wife (according
to his father's obituary). On 07.05.1956, he signed a Page of Testimony
for Yad Vashem (for his brother Julius). Kurt lived in Ramat Gan with
his new name Gabriel Kahn or COHEN.

Kurt's / Gabriel's son may have been Josef Arie Kahn / Cohen in Rishon
L'Zion who signed a second Page of Testimony (for Julius) in 1999 as his
nephew. Since this line goes well into the present, we are quite hopeful
to establish contact. Please answer privately.

Gerhard Buck, Idstein, Germanybuckidstein@t-online.de
German SIG #Germany KAHN Family of Idstein in Israel #germany

Gerhard Buck <buckidstein@...>
 

A group of persons in Idstein intends to place Stolpersteine for the
victims of the Shoa. We start with the KAHN family and are interested in
information aboutthe children of Max Kahn (1875 Idstein “ 1947 New York)
and Bertha nee Hamburger (1873 Klein-Auheim “ 1938 Idstein).

Their youngest child was Kurt Kahn, born on 11.11.1912 in Idstein. In
March 1947, he lived in Kfar Monash, Palestine without a wife (according
to his father's obituary). On 07.05.1956, he signed a Page of Testimony
for Yad Vashem (for his brother Julius). Kurt lived in Ramat Gan with
his new name Gabriel Kahn or COHEN.

Kurt's / Gabriel's son may have been Josef Arie Kahn / Cohen in Rishon
L'Zion who signed a second Page of Testimony (for Julius) in 1999 as his
nephew. Since this line goes well into the present, we are quite hopeful
to establish contact. Please answer privately.

Gerhard Buck, Idstein, Germanybuckidstein@t-online.de
Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Gerhard Buck <buckidstein@...>
 

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer's letter causes me to ask for help in a
special case. Before family names were introduced, children got
patronymics as a second name. But what happened, when the father was
unknown, because the child was born out of wedlock? What happened, when
the father was known, yet not married to the mother? Is there any fixed
rule or tradition?

Reality seems to tell me: take whatever name you like. I have read
plenty of entries in the civil vital registers of the 19th^century, in
which we find all the inhabitants of all denominations in a place.
Concerning Jewish illegitimate children (with a known or unknown father)
all the Gentile writers were at a loss what to write as the second name.
There is a great variety of right or wrong possibilities. With the boys
I have the special problem of defining the given name.

One observation in my registers between 1817 and 1874 I would like to
mention in this context. If I find an illegitimate child in the early
years, more will follow through all the decades. The mothers belonged to
all the confessions “ they were Jews as well as all kinds of Christians.
If there are no unmarried mothers at the beginning, none will follow.

Gerhard Buck, Idstein, Germanybuckidstein@t-online.de
German SIG #Germany Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Gerhard Buck <buckidstein@...>
 

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer's letter causes me to ask for help in a
special case. Before family names were introduced, children got
patronymics as a second name. But what happened, when the father was
unknown, because the child was born out of wedlock? What happened, when
the father was known, yet not married to the mother? Is there any fixed
rule or tradition?

Reality seems to tell me: take whatever name you like. I have read
plenty of entries in the civil vital registers of the 19th^century, in
which we find all the inhabitants of all denominations in a place.
Concerning Jewish illegitimate children (with a known or unknown father)
all the Gentile writers were at a loss what to write as the second name.
There is a great variety of right or wrong possibilities. With the boys
I have the special problem of defining the given name.

One observation in my registers between 1817 and 1874 I would like to
mention in this context. If I find an illegitimate child in the early
years, more will follow through all the decades. The mothers belonged to
all the confessions “ they were Jews as well as all kinds of Christians.
If there are no unmarried mothers at the beginning, none will follow.

Gerhard Buck, Idstein, Germanybuckidstein@t-online.de
Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer's post #germany

Bob Weinberg <weinberg@...>
 

The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains
a large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively
small no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names,
women often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their
second given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if
often stated to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was
actually a male name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not
a name given by vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name
traceable, at least in Germany, back to the 16th century if not
earlier (e.g., David Gans, collaborator with Tycho Brahe the
astronomer). All in all, however, a pretty high score for correctness!

Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu
Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG,
FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, GRUENEWALD, BOAS

The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains a =
large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively small =
no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names, women =
often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their second =
given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if often stated =
to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was actually a male =
name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not a name given by =
vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name traceable, at least =
in Germany, back to the 16th century if not earlier (e.g., David Gans, =
collaborator with Tycho Brahe the astronomer). All in all, however, a =
pretty high score for correctness!
Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu=20
Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG, FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, =
GRUENEWALD, BOAS=20
German SIG #Germany Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer's post #germany

Bob Weinberg <weinberg@...>
 

The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains
a large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively
small no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names,
women often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their
second given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if
often stated to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was
actually a male name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not
a name given by vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name
traceable, at least in Germany, back to the 16th century if not
earlier (e.g., David Gans, collaborator with Tycho Brahe the
astronomer). All in all, however, a pretty high score for correctness!

Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu
Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG,
FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, GRUENEWALD, BOAS

The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains a =
large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively small =
no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names, women =
often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their second =
given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if often stated =
to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was actually a male =
name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not a name given by =
vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name traceable, at least =
in Germany, back to the 16th century if not earlier (e.g., David Gans, =
collaborator with Tycho Brahe the astronomer). All in all, however, a =
pretty high score for correctness!
Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu=20
Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG, FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, =
GRUENEWALD, BOAS=20
Correction Re: AMEND, Bertha, of Denver, Colorado #germany

Hansmartin Unger <hansmartin.unger@...>
 

I made a mistake:
AMEND, Berta was born 1905 in SIOFOK-Hungary and came in the USA abt.
1947 >from STUTTGART/Germany-US Zone, Landhausstrasse 54.
She had a daughter - born abt. 1930-1934- Traudel AAMEND married to an
Amercian soldier(war-bride)

the last information was that Mrs AMEND,Berta, was living in Denver
-Colorado since 1954 at 904 E-10th Ave.
Thanks for any help
Hansmartin Unger,Switzerland
German SIG #Germany Correction Re: AMEND, Bertha, of Denver, Colorado #germany

Hansmartin Unger <hansmartin.unger@...>
 

I made a mistake:
AMEND, Berta was born 1905 in SIOFOK-Hungary and came in the USA abt.
1947 >from STUTTGART/Germany-US Zone, Landhausstrasse 54.
She had a daughter - born abt. 1930-1934- Traudel AAMEND married to an
Amercian soldier(war-bride)

the last information was that Mrs AMEND,Berta, was living in Denver
-Colorado since 1954 at 904 E-10th Ave.
Thanks for any help
Hansmartin Unger,Switzerland
Subject: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Alan Ehrlich
 

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer: SITE CITE concerning Slate.com "Jewish
Surnames Explained".

Unfortunately, there is considerable error and misinformation in this blog
article I'd be happy to enumerate off-list.

Kind regards, Alan Ehrlich Geneva, Switzerland
German SIG #Germany Subject: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Alan Ehrlich
 

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer: SITE CITE concerning Slate.com "Jewish
Surnames Explained".

Unfortunately, there is considerable error and misinformation in this blog
article I'd be happy to enumerate off-list.

Kind regards, Alan Ehrlich Geneva, Switzerland
Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer
 

Roger, thank you for your (as usual) useful comments about this
article. Another comment I thought of making earlier was his
suggestion that the surname London was given to people at immigration
to the US by officials who didn't understand the immigrants' actual
name. The myth of "name changes at Ellis Island" persists despite
serious genealogists' attempts to debunk it. The officials at Ellis
Island had translators who spoke a myriad of languages, *and* the
people's names came off the ship manifests that were prepared in the
country of origin. Changes soon after people arrived in America were a
result of people wanting a name that sounded more "American," not the
result of official people being obtuse.

The map with the article looked as if it might be interesting, by on
my computer, even using <CTRL>+ to enlarge it, I couldn't make it
large enough to read the legend, so I couldn't figure out what it was
about--possibly number or Jews or percentage of Jews in various areas?

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer Hyde Park, NY christine3cats@gmail.com
German SIG #Germany Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer
 

Roger, thank you for your (as usual) useful comments about this
article. Another comment I thought of making earlier was his
suggestion that the surname London was given to people at immigration
to the US by officials who didn't understand the immigrants' actual
name. The myth of "name changes at Ellis Island" persists despite
serious genealogists' attempts to debunk it. The officials at Ellis
Island had translators who spoke a myriad of languages, *and* the
people's names came off the ship manifests that were prepared in the
country of origin. Changes soon after people arrived in America were a
result of people wanting a name that sounded more "American," not the
result of official people being obtuse.

The map with the article looked as if it might be interesting, by on
my computer, even using <CTRL>+ to enlarge it, I couldn't make it
large enough to read the legend, so I couldn't figure out what it was
about--possibly number or Jews or percentage of Jews in various areas?

Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer Hyde Park, NY christine3cats@gmail.com
Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Roger Lustig
 

I would not recommend this article. It gives no sources, contains
internal contradictions as Christine notes (not to mention having two
divergent sections devoted to animal names); and is full of errors and
myths.

Start with the "Ekelnamen" (ugly names) myth, which he calls "insulting
names." Not only does he not give any reason to believe that surnames
were assigned, but none of the examples he gives is insulting! Anyone
who thinks it's an insult to carry the name GANS (which means goose, but
probably has a different derivation in this case) should read a little
Jewish history. There have been famous GANSes since the 16thC.

Mistakes abound in the article. "Zweig" means "branch/twig," not
"wreath." "Fried" means "peace," not "happiness." HOFFMANN has nothing
to do with hope--it's a job (estate manager). So is HOLLAENDER,
sometimes (dairyman). KAGAN has nothing to do with the Khazars--it's
KOHEN spelled the Russian way. LONDON was spelled that way long before
anyone emigrated. What's the plural of 'shtetl'? And what is a
"second-rank Levite"???

GOLDMANN is an actual German surname, and also a German-Jewish one (half
a column in Menk); but it doesn't necessarily denote a goldsmith;
besides, we have the ultra-widespread GOLDSCHMIDT for that.

The patronymics/matronymics business is also confused. There are
matronymic-based surnames (REICHLIN, RIFKIN); but women were generally
referred to by the name of their father or their husband.

The names he gives as acronyms include METZ and SACHS, which could just
as well be toponyms (place-name derived).

The list goes on and on.

On the other hand, the map at the top of the page is one of my very
favorites.

Finally, along with Menk's German-surname dictionary I'd recommend
Alexander Beider's fine books on Eastern European Jewish surnames, not
to mention his (now-out-of-print) one on old surnames >from Prague.

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA research coordinator, GerSIG

On 1/9/2014 7:00 PM, Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer wrote:
We sometimes have questions about this on the list, so I thought I'd
forward this URL: http://tinyurl.com/ph3yk7b>
[Mod note: The above is a SLATE.com blog page containing advertising.
The time tested and favored sources on this subject are the classic
_ A Dictionary of Jewish Names and Their History_ by Benzion C. Kaganoff
and, for Germany, _A Dictionary of German-Jewish Surnames_ by Lars Menk ]
German SIG #Germany Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions #germany

Roger Lustig
 

I would not recommend this article. It gives no sources, contains
internal contradictions as Christine notes (not to mention having two
divergent sections devoted to animal names); and is full of errors and
myths.

Start with the "Ekelnamen" (ugly names) myth, which he calls "insulting
names." Not only does he not give any reason to believe that surnames
were assigned, but none of the examples he gives is insulting! Anyone
who thinks it's an insult to carry the name GANS (which means goose, but
probably has a different derivation in this case) should read a little
Jewish history. There have been famous GANSes since the 16thC.

Mistakes abound in the article. "Zweig" means "branch/twig," not
"wreath." "Fried" means "peace," not "happiness." HOFFMANN has nothing
to do with hope--it's a job (estate manager). So is HOLLAENDER,
sometimes (dairyman). KAGAN has nothing to do with the Khazars--it's
KOHEN spelled the Russian way. LONDON was spelled that way long before
anyone emigrated. What's the plural of 'shtetl'? And what is a
"second-rank Levite"???

GOLDMANN is an actual German surname, and also a German-Jewish one (half
a column in Menk); but it doesn't necessarily denote a goldsmith;
besides, we have the ultra-widespread GOLDSCHMIDT for that.

The patronymics/matronymics business is also confused. There are
matronymic-based surnames (REICHLIN, RIFKIN); but women were generally
referred to by the name of their father or their husband.

The names he gives as acronyms include METZ and SACHS, which could just
as well be toponyms (place-name derived).

The list goes on and on.

On the other hand, the map at the top of the page is one of my very
favorites.

Finally, along with Menk's German-surname dictionary I'd recommend
Alexander Beider's fine books on Eastern European Jewish surnames, not
to mention his (now-out-of-print) one on old surnames >from Prague.

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA research coordinator, GerSIG

On 1/9/2014 7:00 PM, Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer wrote:
We sometimes have questions about this on the list, so I thought I'd
forward this URL: http://tinyurl.com/ph3yk7b>
[Mod note: The above is a SLATE.com blog page containing advertising.
The time tested and favored sources on this subject are the classic
_ A Dictionary of Jewish Names and Their History_ by Benzion C. Kaganoff
and, for Germany, _A Dictionary of German-Jewish Surnames_ by Lars Menk ]
Sources for book Records of the Franklin family and collaterals by Arthur Ellis Franklin #unitedkingdom

Naomi Cream
 

I wonder if anyone knows where I can find the SOURCES for the collaterals of the above family. The first edition was published in 1915 and the second in 1935. The informants are listed in the introduction but there are no further details.

There is no information in MS120 in the Franklin collection at the Hartley Library in the University of Southampton apart >from details of the Franklin family itself.

I also wonder if anyone can tell me about David Kaufmann 1852-1899 who is listed as an author in very modern descriptions of the book for sale.

Naomi Cream, London UK

(searching LYON in Liverpool)
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Sources for book Records of the Franklin family and collaterals by Arthur Ellis Franklin #unitedkingdom

Naomi Cream
 

I wonder if anyone knows where I can find the SOURCES for the collaterals of the above family. The first edition was published in 1915 and the second in 1935. The informants are listed in the introduction but there are no further details.

There is no information in MS120 in the Franklin collection at the Hartley Library in the University of Southampton apart >from details of the Franklin family itself.

I also wonder if anyone can tell me about David Kaufmann 1852-1899 who is listed as an author in very modern descriptions of the book for sale.

Naomi Cream, London UK

(searching LYON in Liverpool)
Finding family Israel to Milwaukee #general

aiginsburg
 

Please help Arie Kagan in Israel find his family

Arie Kagan's aunt (sister of his father) Immigrated to the US >from Israel around
1966-67 probably to Milwaukee. unfortunately i don't have their last name
Names: Hana (known as Hanebashe), her husband: Gutel or Gitel, their daughter:
Michal (known as Michle) with 3 children: Haya (or Hana) at that time she was
around 8 David, at that time 5-6, Eliyahu was few month old.

Aaron Ginsburg
aaron.ginsburg@gmail.com
Foxboro, MA USA
searching Ginsburg, Kusinitz, Cirlin (Dokshitsy, Parfionova, Glubokie)
Pokross, Pokrassa(Gorodische near Cherassy, Ukraine, Fall River, MA
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Finding family Israel to Milwaukee #general

aiginsburg
 

Please help Arie Kagan in Israel find his family

Arie Kagan's aunt (sister of his father) Immigrated to the US >from Israel around
1966-67 probably to Milwaukee. unfortunately i don't have their last name
Names: Hana (known as Hanebashe), her husband: Gutel or Gitel, their daughter:
Michal (known as Michle) with 3 children: Haya (or Hana) at that time she was
around 8 David, at that time 5-6, Eliyahu was few month old.

Aaron Ginsburg
aaron.ginsburg@gmail.com
Foxboro, MA USA
searching Ginsburg, Kusinitz, Cirlin (Dokshitsy, Parfionova, Glubokie)
Pokross, Pokrassa(Gorodische near Cherassy, Ukraine, Fall River, MA
130481 - 130500 of 668816