"Sharon Fingold" wrote

I finally found a passenger list I had been searching
for. My grandmother Rose FEIN arrived in NYC in Nov,
1913. Departure port was Libau. The relevant part of
the passenger list is on Viewmate:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9024

Rose's information is on Line 8.

I need help deciphering the following:

1. Sister's first name and Brooklyn address.

2. Birth place town name. Scroll horizontally to the
very end to find the birth town name on the last line.
It looks like "Glechenz." I believe Rose was born
in Belarus. In 1913, her father was living in
Plescenitsy in Belarus.

ShtetlSeeker doesn't have an exact match for Glechenz.
In Belarus, two towns come up: Glushintsy and
Glazomichi. There don't seem to be any better matches
in other parts of the pale of settlement.

Finally, what language/writing style was used in Libau
in 1913? Was it Russian or Latvian or German? On the
passenger list (a different page not in Viewmate),
Rose's name is spelled as "Rasja Zeldja Fein" and I am
wondering what language was being used.

Hi Sharon,

1. It appears that the first letter in the elusive "Glechentz" is not "G"
but "P", which makes town read as: "Plechentz", and this is another form of
modern Pleshchenitsy in Belarus, the town of her father.

2. Libau was German name of Libava, Baltic sea port, also known as Libava
till the end of WWI. Town was located within Courland (Kurlandskaya
Guberniya) which was part Russian Empire. Today this is known as modern
Liepaja in Latvia.

Regards,

Alexander Sharon
JGFF editor

"Sharon Fingold" wrote

I finally found a passenger list I had been searching
for. My grandmother Rose FEIN arrived in NYC in Nov,
1913. Departure port was Libau. The relevant part of
the passenger list is on Viewmate:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9024

Rose's information is on Line 8.

I need help deciphering the following:

1. Sister's first name and Brooklyn address.

2. Birth place town name. Scroll horizontally to the
very end to find the birth town name on the last line.
It looks like "Glechenz." I believe Rose was born
in Belarus. In 1913, her father was living in
Plescenitsy in Belarus.

ShtetlSeeker doesn't have an exact match for Glechenz.
In Belarus, two towns come up: Glushintsy and
Glazomichi. There don't seem to be any better matches
in other parts of the pale of settlement.

Finally, what language/writing style was used in Libau
in 1913? Was it Russian or Latvian or German? On the
passenger list (a different page not in Viewmate),
Rose's name is spelled as "Rasja Zeldja Fein" and I am
wondering what language was being used.

Hi Sharon,

1. It appears that the first letter in the elusive "Glechentz" is not "G"
but "P", which makes town read as: "Plechentz", and this is another form of
modern Pleshchenitsy in Belarus, the town of her father.

2. Libau was German name of Libava, Baltic sea port, also known as Libava
till the end of WWI. Town was located within Courland (Kurlandskaya
Guberniya) which was part Russian Empire. Today this is known as modern
Liepaja in Latvia.

Regards,

Alexander Sharon
JGFF editor

Ira Block posted a query about whether it is safe to visit New Jersey
cemeteries and whether there is a service to photograph tombstones.

I would like to alert him to JewishGen's Online Worldwide Burial
Registry's (JOWBR) cemetery inventory at

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Cemetery/tree/CemList.htm. This
shows that over 24,000 burial records >from 113 New Jersey cemeteries
are in the database. He can access the searchable database at

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/.

Perhaps his relatives are in the database.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition

MODERATOR NOTE: It's often a good idea, before posting queries, to have
a look in the JewishGen archives to see if a subject has been discussed
in the past. This subject has frequently been brought up.

Ira Block posted a query about whether it is safe to visit New Jersey
cemeteries and whether there is a service to photograph tombstones.

I would like to alert him to JewishGen's Online Worldwide Burial
Registry's (JOWBR) cemetery inventory at

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Cemetery/tree/CemList.htm. This
shows that over 24,000 burial records >from 113 New Jersey cemeteries
are in the database. He can access the searchable database at

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/.

Perhaps his relatives are in the database.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP, Data Acquisition

MODERATOR NOTE: It's often a good idea, before posting queries, to have
a look in the JewishGen archives to see if a subject has been discussed
in the past. This subject has frequently been brought up.

Dear JGenners:

Correction to my recent message re "Nesan'el." Please correct the
following sentence by deleting the last four words, which made
nonsense of it.

(A different and much later Nesan'el is mentioned in the
post-exilic books of Ezra, Nehemiah and
Chronicle, but your husband's ancestor.

It should have read simply as follows:

"A different and much later Nesan'el is mentioned in the post-exilic
books of Ezra, Nehemiah and Chronicles." Sorry for my carelessness.

Judith Romney Wegner

At 2:40 PM +0000 12/12/06, Henry Best wrote:

My grandmother was registered at birth with the given name Rayler,

Is it unique to her (and one of her descendants), or does anyone in the
group have a similarly named ancestor?

I have a female ancestor named Rayner (spelled with "n" not "l"),
who was likewise of Dutch Jewiish background). "Rayner" could
easily be mis-heard or mis-registered as "Rayler."

I have also met a Jewish woman named "Rayner" which I assume may
be a Dutch girl's name -- though perhaps with a different spelling
in Dutch?

Judith Romney Wegner.

Dear JGenners:

Correction to my recent message re "Nesan'el." Please correct the
following sentence by deleting the last four words, which made
nonsense of it.

(A different and much later Nesan'el is mentioned in the
post-exilic books of Ezra, Nehemiah and
Chronicle, but your husband's ancestor.

It should have read simply as follows:

"A different and much later Nesan'el is mentioned in the post-exilic
books of Ezra, Nehemiah and Chronicles." Sorry for my carelessness.

Judith Romney Wegner

At 2:40 PM +0000 12/12/06, Henry Best wrote:

My grandmother was registered at birth with the given name Rayler,

Is it unique to her (and one of her descendants), or does anyone in the
group have a similarly named ancestor?

I have a female ancestor named Rayner (spelled with "n" not "l"),
who was likewise of Dutch Jewiish background). "Rayner" could
easily be mis-heard or mis-registered as "Rayler."

I have also met a Jewish woman named "Rayner" which I assume may
be a Dutch girl's name -- though perhaps with a different spelling
in Dutch?

Judith Romney Wegner.

The Jewish Records Indexing-Poland database has been updated to include
an additional 9952 indices >from the city of Warszawa. The Warszawa Shtetl
CO-OP project creates extended indices, which also include when noted in
the record: date of the event, age, gender, father's name and age, mother's
name and age, mother's maiden name.

Warszawa was separated into various districts or Cyrkuli. The dividing
lines of these districts varied over time. Each inner city district maintained
their own vital record registration; however there were periods of time
in which several districts combined their vital registration together.
The new data includes registers for the years 1832, 1846-48, 1864-1866 >from
multiple districts. Maps of the district borders can be found at

http://www.jri-poland.org/warsaw/districts.htm

If you know the address where your family lived but not the district,
then it is recommended to use as a reference the Warszawa Homeowner's list
which was compiled by the Warszawa Research Group.
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/WarszawaHomeowners.htm

Many thanks to those who helped with the indexing and data entry,
Michael Chen, Rose Feldman, Miriam Segali (z"l) and the Douglas E. Goldman
Jewish Genealogy Center.

Hadassah Lipsius
Warszawa Shtetl CO-OP Coordinator
JRI-Poland

The Jewish Records Indexing-Poland database has been updated to include
an additional 9952 indices >from the city of Warszawa. The Warszawa Shtetl
CO-OP project creates extended indices, which also include when noted in
the record: date of the event, age, gender, father's name and age, mother's
name and age, mother's maiden name.

Warszawa was separated into various districts or Cyrkuli. The dividing
lines of these districts varied over time. Each inner city district maintained
their own vital record registration; however there were periods of time
in which several districts combined their vital registration together.
The new data includes registers for the years 1832, 1846-48, 1864-1866 >from
multiple districts. Maps of the district borders can be found at

http://www.jri-poland.org/warsaw/districts.htm

If you know the address where your family lived but not the district,
then it is recommended to use as a reference the Warszawa Homeowner's list
which was compiled by the Warszawa Research Group.
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/WarszawaHomeowners.htm

Many thanks to those who helped with the indexing and data entry,
Michael Chen, Rose Feldman, Miriam Segali (z"l) and the Douglas E. Goldman
Jewish Genealogy Center.

Hadassah Lipsius
Warszawa Shtetl CO-OP Coordinator
JRI-Poland

The Jewish Records Indexing-Poland database was recently updated with data
indexed >from the LDS Microfilms of Jewish Vital Records >from Poland. I
would like to thank our wonderful team of volunteers who worked tirelessly
to make the Shtetl CO-OP Project such a success.

Four town projects, Lublin, Radzyn Podlaski, Zamosc and Gowarczow, are now
totally complete, which means that all the available LDS data has been
indexed. Additional data has been added for Warszawa and Sandomierz.

Over 35,000 new indices are now available and 20 additional microfilms have
been completed.

Many thanks to the following Coordinators and leaders; Coby Goldwasser,
Kirsten Gradel, Robinn Magid, Shelley Pollero, Dolores Ring, Lancy Spalter,
Greg Tuckman.

Watch for announcements over the next few weeks for more additions to the
JRI-Poland database.

Hadassah Lipsius
JRI-Poland
Shtetl CO-OP Coordinator

The Jewish Records Indexing-Poland database was recently updated with data
indexed >from the LDS Microfilms of Jewish Vital Records >from Poland. I
would like to thank our wonderful team of volunteers who worked tirelessly
to make the Shtetl CO-OP Project such a success.

Four town projects, Lublin, Radzyn Podlaski, Zamosc and Gowarczow, are now
totally complete, which means that all the available LDS data has been
indexed. Additional data has been added for Warszawa and Sandomierz.

Over 35,000 new indices are now available and 20 additional microfilms have
been completed.

Many thanks to the following Coordinators and leaders; Coby Goldwasser,
Kirsten Gradel, Robinn Magid, Shelley Pollero, Dolores Ring, Lancy Spalter,
Greg Tuckman.

Watch for announcements over the next few weeks for more additions to the
JRI-Poland database.

Hadassah Lipsius
JRI-Poland
Shtetl CO-OP Coordinator

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 01:13:26 UTC, jrw@brown.edu (Judith Romney Wegner)
opined:

At 10:54 PM +1100 12/12/06, Charles and Perla Leinkram wrote:
My husband's grandfather's first name was Nesanajl. Is that the same as
Nathan or Nathaniel?

Thanking you in anticipation.
Perla Leinkram

No it is not Nathan, but yes it is Nathaniel.
That is the stadard English transliteration for
the Hebrew biblical name pronounced Ne-san-'el
by Ashkenazim. The main Biblical Nesan'el is
the one named in the Torah as a leader of the
tribe of Issachar at Numbers 1,8 and several more
times in the book of Numbers. (A different and
much later Nesan'el is mentioned in the
post-exilic books of Ezra, Nehemiah and
Chronicle, but your husband's ancestor.

Nathan is quite a different biblical character.
Several Nathans are mentioned in the bible but
the only important one is the prophet Nathan in
the time of King David, mentioned several times
in 2 Samuel and 1 Kings

Judith Romney Wegner

Actually, the real name of the various Biblical "Nathans" was almost
certainly "Nataniel" too (or "Nataniyah"), both theophoric names, and
"Natan". "Natan" means "he gave", but on the pattern of most other Biblical
names, it should state WHO gave, and the missing donor is specified by
either of the complete names, "God gave".

The Bible has many such examples. "Micha" ("Micah", for instance, is not a
name; his name was "Michayahu". The name of Baruch ben Neriya, secretary of
the prophet Jeremiah was "Berachiahu", on the evidence of his seals
("bullae") which were found some years ago in Jerusalem. Nicknames are not a
new invention. There is less reason to make a distinction between "Natan"
and "Nataniel" than is apparent at first glance.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 01:13:26 UTC, jrw@brown.edu (Judith Romney Wegner)
opined:

At 10:54 PM +1100 12/12/06, Charles and Perla Leinkram wrote:
My husband's grandfather's first name was Nesanajl. Is that the same as
Nathan or Nathaniel?

Thanking you in anticipation.
Perla Leinkram

No it is not Nathan, but yes it is Nathaniel.
That is the stadard English transliteration for
the Hebrew biblical name pronounced Ne-san-'el
by Ashkenazim. The main Biblical Nesan'el is
the one named in the Torah as a leader of the
tribe of Issachar at Numbers 1,8 and several more
times in the book of Numbers. (A different and
much later Nesan'el is mentioned in the
post-exilic books of Ezra, Nehemiah and
Chronicle, but your husband's ancestor.

Nathan is quite a different biblical character.
Several Nathans are mentioned in the bible but
the only important one is the prophet Nathan in
the time of King David, mentioned several times
in 2 Samuel and 1 Kings

Judith Romney Wegner

Actually, the real name of the various Biblical "Nathans" was almost
certainly "Nataniel" too (or "Nataniyah"), both theophoric names, and
"Natan". "Natan" means "he gave", but on the pattern of most other Biblical
names, it should state WHO gave, and the missing donor is specified by
either of the complete names, "God gave".

The Bible has many such examples. "Micha" ("Micah", for instance, is not a
name; his name was "Michayahu". The name of Baruch ben Neriya, secretary of
the prophet Jeremiah was "Berachiahu", on the evidence of his seals
("bullae") which were found some years ago in Jerusalem. Nicknames are not a
new invention. There is less reason to make a distinction between "Natan"
and "Nataniel" than is apparent at first glance.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.

I'm trying to determine whether any of my KUJAWSKI ancestors survived the
Shoah. My grandfather Simon (Yehoshuah Wolf KUJAWSKI) emigrated >from Poland
for England circa 1895. He left behind his parents Itko and Raca, one
brother and two sisters.

I just discovered that my father's cousin Jakob KUJAWSKI, who was born in
Lodz in 1891, immigrated to the U.S. in 1920. There he stayed with an uncle
(Jakob SUSSMAN) in Paterson, NJ. (Jakob may have changed his surname to
WINTER after settling in the U.S.) Jakob's brother Wolf (known as Willie)
KUJAWSKI and wife Ryfka (Regina) immigrated to the US in 1940, after a
year's stay in England, arriving at the Port of New York in September of
that year.

Finding my father's two cousins in the US was the first proof I've had that
*any* of the KUJAWSKI family left Europe before the the 2nd world war.

For several years I've been trying to determine whether any other members
of the family survived the Holocaust and, most especially, if any of their
descendants are still alive ... and, if so, who they are and where.

Please contact me privately.

Naidia Woolf
rnwoolf@earthlink.net
San Francisco, CA
Formerly >from Birmingham, England

Researching:
BRYL: Skerabz, Poland DROZDIASZ (or variants) /ROSE: Karczew, Poland
GRINBERG, Milosna, Poland ISAACS (family of Solomon & Sarah): Poland (town - Mlawa?)/Birmingham,
England KUJAWSKI: Lodz, Poland/State of New Jersey, USA
MIKHALSON: Karczew, Poland SAFIRSTEIN/SZAFIRSTEIN (or variants): Karczew, Poland
SHORN (family of Morris & Yetta), Poland (town unknown)
SUMMERS: Poland?/State of New Jersey WINTER: Lodz, Poland/State of New Jersey, USA

I'm trying to determine whether any of my KUJAWSKI ancestors survived the
Shoah. My grandfather Simon (Yehoshuah Wolf KUJAWSKI) emigrated >from Poland
for England circa 1895. He left behind his parents Itko and Raca, one
brother and two sisters.

I just discovered that my father's cousin Jakob KUJAWSKI, who was born in
Lodz in 1891, immigrated to the U.S. in 1920. There he stayed with an uncle
(Jakob SUSSMAN) in Paterson, NJ. (Jakob may have changed his surname to
WINTER after settling in the U.S.) Jakob's brother Wolf (known as Willie)
KUJAWSKI and wife Ryfka (Regina) immigrated to the US in 1940, after a
year's stay in England, arriving at the Port of New York in September of
that year.

Finding my father's two cousins in the US was the first proof I've had that
*any* of the KUJAWSKI family left Europe before the the 2nd world war.

For several years I've been trying to determine whether any other members
of the family survived the Holocaust and, most especially, if any of their
descendants are still alive ... and, if so, who they are and where.

Please contact me privately.

Naidia Woolf
rnwoolf@earthlink.net
San Francisco, CA
Formerly >from Birmingham, England

Researching:
BRYL: Skerabz, Poland DROZDIASZ (or variants) /ROSE: Karczew, Poland
GRINBERG, Milosna, Poland ISAACS (family of Solomon & Sarah): Poland (town - Mlawa?)/Birmingham,
England KUJAWSKI: Lodz, Poland/State of New Jersey, USA
MIKHALSON: Karczew, Poland SAFIRSTEIN/SZAFIRSTEIN (or variants): Karczew, Poland
SHORN (family of Morris & Yetta), Poland (town unknown)
SUMMERS: Poland?/State of New Jersey WINTER: Lodz, Poland/State of New Jersey, USA

In a message dated 12/12/2006 10:05:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
celiamale@yahoo.com writes:

<< I discovered today that the real name of Alberto Moravia, the
Italian novelist and writer, was actually PINCHERLE. His father was Carlo
PINCHERLE - architect and painter.

<< We have recently had some discussion on our AustriaCzech SIG:
http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech re the migration of Jews between
Italy and Bohemia/Moravia [both directions]. There were definitely PINK and
PINKAS living in Bohemia and most probably Moravia too in the late 1700s.
Could PINCHERLE be a diminutive? Did these Italian PINCHERLE originally come

from Bohemia or Moravia? >>

Menk's dictionary of German-Jewish surnames refers Pincherle to
Pinkerle.
He attributes that name to Pincus [i.e. Pinchas] and says that Judah Loebel
ben Nathan PINKERLE was the father of Glueckel von Hameln (b 1645). He
gives a 1630 appearance of the name in Friuli-Venezia [Italy], a 1665
occurrence in Vienna, and a 1682 occurrence in Amsterdam (originating >from
Vienna.)

enc judaica:says that ALBERTO MORAVIA (Pincherle), (1907-1990)
was born in Rome, and took his pen name >from his immigrant father's
country of origin.

Michael Bernet, New York

In a message dated 12/12/2006 10:05:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
celiamale@yahoo.com writes:

<< I discovered today that the real name of Alberto Moravia, the
Italian novelist and writer, was actually PINCHERLE. His father was Carlo
PINCHERLE - architect and painter.

<< We have recently had some discussion on our AustriaCzech SIG:
http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech re the migration of Jews between
Italy and Bohemia/Moravia [both directions]. There were definitely PINK and
PINKAS living in Bohemia and most probably Moravia too in the late 1700s.
Could PINCHERLE be a diminutive? Did these Italian PINCHERLE originally come

from Bohemia or Moravia? >>

Menk's dictionary of German-Jewish surnames refers Pincherle to
Pinkerle.
He attributes that name to Pincus [i.e. Pinchas] and says that Judah Loebel
ben Nathan PINKERLE was the father of Glueckel von Hameln (b 1645). He
gives a 1630 appearance of the name in Friuli-Venezia [Italy], a 1665
occurrence in Vienna, and a 1682 occurrence in Amsterdam (originating >from
Vienna.)

enc judaica:says that ALBERTO MORAVIA (Pincherle), (1907-1990)
was born in Rome, and took his pen name >from his immigrant father's
country of origin.

Michael Bernet, New York

As far as I know my widowed ggf married his second wife in Breslau in 1880.
I am hoping that the record of their marriage would provide some details of
her ancestry and place of birth. Can anyone suggest a point of contact for
the Jewish community of the former Breslau, now Wroclaw?
Oliver Bryk, San Francisco

As far as I know my widowed ggf married his second wife in Breslau in 1880.
I am hoping that the record of their marriage would provide some details of
her ancestry and place of birth. Can anyone suggest a point of contact for
the Jewish community of the former Breslau, now Wroclaw?
Oliver Bryk, San Francisco