Date   

Re: Can you help me identify Gershagui, West Falen #germany

Gregor Brand <Gregor.Brand@...>
 

"Gershagui" probably is the village of Giershagen in the Sauerland
region of Westphalia. The village (about 1500 inhabitants) is located
south of Paderborn, between Dortmund and Kassel.

You can find more information (in German) about Giershagen at:
www.giershagen.de

Hope this helps. Gregor Brand, Bargstedt, Germany


German SIG #Germany Re: Can you help me identify Gershagui, West Falen #germany

Gregor Brand <Gregor.Brand@...>
 

"Gershagui" probably is the village of Giershagen in the Sauerland
region of Westphalia. The village (about 1500 inhabitants) is located
south of Paderborn, between Dortmund and Kassel.

You can find more information (in German) about Giershagen at:
www.giershagen.de

Hope this helps. Gregor Brand, Bargstedt, Germany


Re: Can you help me identify Gershagui, West Falen #germany

Ralph Baer
 

Perhaps it is Geseke, Westfalen which is about 10 miles westsouthwest
of Paderborn.

Ralph N. Baer Washington, DC ursusminor@alum.rpi.edu

Ellen Barnett Cleary San Francisco, California <ellencleary@comcast.net> asked:
Someone shared some information with me about a person born in
1856 in Gershagui, West Falen. Can someone help me figure out where
this is and how to correctly spell it?


German SIG #Germany Re: Can you help me identify Gershagui, West Falen #germany

Ralph Baer
 

Perhaps it is Geseke, Westfalen which is about 10 miles westsouthwest
of Paderborn.

Ralph N. Baer Washington, DC ursusminor@alum.rpi.edu

Ellen Barnett Cleary San Francisco, California <ellencleary@comcast.net> asked:
Someone shared some information with me about a person born in
1856 in Gershagui, West Falen. Can someone help me figure out where
this is and how to correctly spell it?


Pronounciation in German dialects can cause spelling variations in old records #germany

buckidstein@...
 

When I speak of Burgsteinfurt, my home-town in North Germany, I pronounce
the g either like g as in English "get" or as a voiceless guttural ch.
The first version is High German, the second is dialect.

In the region around Frankfurt a.M., where I now live, there are two
more possibilities to pronounce a G: sch (German writing) or sh as
in English "ship" and j (German writing) or y as in yes.

Also, here in South Germany, "ch" is often pronounced as "sch".
Thus in this area "Kirche" (church) can sound exactly like "Kirsche"
(cherry). This may be confusing to a foreigner, yet a genealogist
is always confronted with the influence of regional dialects on the
spelling of names that appear in old vital records.

He or she should not be misled by the modern standardized pronunciation
of letters.

When one is aware of this and of the fact that there was no fixed spelling
of Jewish names in former centuries, one will, for example, see that
behind the names Mortje - Mortie - Mortche - Mordsche - Mordge
(t and d can always be exchanged) there is only one person whose full
name was Mordechai. The other versions are attempts to render one and
the same pronunciation of a familiar form of that name which we now
would write "Mordche".

G and ch are important letters, because they are used for the suffix of
the diminuitive form: -chen in modern writing, -gen in the 19th and
earlier centuries (together with -chen).

When this syllable was pronounced sh, (as in the English word shovel)
the -n at the end was dropped. Especially the women loved this ending.

More examples >from South Germany, where you should not think of
different pronunciations of the last syllable:
Bluemche = Bluemge = Bluemchen

Mannge = Mannchen = Mannsche = Mandje

And familiar forms of Elisabeth: Bettge = Bettchen = Beschen
(first syllable Bes).

Gerhard Buck, Idstein, Germany buckidstein@aol.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Mr. Buck is the author of many books and articles based
on his research using German vital records and archival documents.
He will speak on these subjects at the SLC 2007 Conference.

His message is not intended as a lesson in spoken German. The point here
has been stated in many prior messages in this Forum:
In old German records the name of the same ancestor
can can be spelled in many different ways.
For example, I have a tape recording of my American grandmother speaking the
names of her German-born aunts: Binchen, Linchen, and Yetchen Straus.
Mr. Buck, who has spent decades searching vital records in South German
archives, knows >from experience that these familiar names could have been
spelled in several ways in old documents as per the examples in his
last paragraph, above.

(LDS films of their birth records >from Kaiserslautern, circa 1860 show that their
formal names, Philippina. Caroline and Henriette were recorded by the clerks but
that the given name of their father, Michael, was spelled in 2 or 3 different ways
in the 3 birth records as was the family name, STRAUS / STRAUSS / STRAUs (esszet))
MOD 1


German SIG #Germany Pronounciation in German dialects can cause spelling variations in old records #germany

buckidstein@...
 

When I speak of Burgsteinfurt, my home-town in North Germany, I pronounce
the g either like g as in English "get" or as a voiceless guttural ch.
The first version is High German, the second is dialect.

In the region around Frankfurt a.M., where I now live, there are two
more possibilities to pronounce a G: sch (German writing) or sh as
in English "ship" and j (German writing) or y as in yes.

Also, here in South Germany, "ch" is often pronounced as "sch".
Thus in this area "Kirche" (church) can sound exactly like "Kirsche"
(cherry). This may be confusing to a foreigner, yet a genealogist
is always confronted with the influence of regional dialects on the
spelling of names that appear in old vital records.

He or she should not be misled by the modern standardized pronunciation
of letters.

When one is aware of this and of the fact that there was no fixed spelling
of Jewish names in former centuries, one will, for example, see that
behind the names Mortje - Mortie - Mortche - Mordsche - Mordge
(t and d can always be exchanged) there is only one person whose full
name was Mordechai. The other versions are attempts to render one and
the same pronunciation of a familiar form of that name which we now
would write "Mordche".

G and ch are important letters, because they are used for the suffix of
the diminuitive form: -chen in modern writing, -gen in the 19th and
earlier centuries (together with -chen).

When this syllable was pronounced sh, (as in the English word shovel)
the -n at the end was dropped. Especially the women loved this ending.

More examples >from South Germany, where you should not think of
different pronunciations of the last syllable:
Bluemche = Bluemge = Bluemchen

Mannge = Mannchen = Mannsche = Mandje

And familiar forms of Elisabeth: Bettge = Bettchen = Beschen
(first syllable Bes).

Gerhard Buck, Idstein, Germany buckidstein@aol.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Mr. Buck is the author of many books and articles based
on his research using German vital records and archival documents.
He will speak on these subjects at the SLC 2007 Conference.

His message is not intended as a lesson in spoken German. The point here
has been stated in many prior messages in this Forum:
In old German records the name of the same ancestor
can can be spelled in many different ways.
For example, I have a tape recording of my American grandmother speaking the
names of her German-born aunts: Binchen, Linchen, and Yetchen Straus.
Mr. Buck, who has spent decades searching vital records in South German
archives, knows >from experience that these familiar names could have been
spelled in several ways in old documents as per the examples in his
last paragraph, above.

(LDS films of their birth records >from Kaiserslautern, circa 1860 show that their
formal names, Philippina. Caroline and Henriette were recorded by the clerks but
that the given name of their father, Michael, was spelled in 2 or 3 different ways
in the 3 birth records as was the family name, STRAUS / STRAUSS / STRAUs (esszet))
MOD 1


Re: SEGAL Family in France #france

Sherry Landa <sherry@...>
 

Hi Lois,

I don't understand what you mean when you say you have no way to contact
these gentlemen.
If you go to http://www.pagesjaunes.fr/pb.cgi and put Segal in the first box
and 75 in the last you'll get the street address, the home phone and the
mobile for Claude plus the street address and home phone of Philippe. So,
between the two of them you have 5 ways to contact them.

Are you perhaps asking someone to telephone them or write to them on your
behalf? If so, then I suggest a letter. Cold calling is sometimes fantastic
but when people are not expecting it and may be vulnerable in some way they
can find it very intimidating. In addition, for someone to help you they
would need to know what you want to say to these gentlemen and how they can
contact you. You gave your email address but if neither have internet access
that is not going to be much use. Also you need to think of the logistics.
If someone contacts them and they phone you and they don't speak English and
you don't speak French it could be tricky ;-) Also there is something like 6
hours between Florida and Paris so if they were to call you mid-morning you
might get a nasty shock at 3 am!

If you want to email me back, privately, I am more than happy to write to
these gentlemen on your behalf. Post is taking 2 working days >from here to
France at the moment and I have French stamps to include a return envelope
which I find gets you further if included.

Hope this helps a bit and look forward to hearing >from you if I can be of
further assistance.
Best wishes,
Sherry Landa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Once again I am searching for 'my' long lost SEGAL family. I now have
names and addresses so this might be helpful.


French SIG #France Re: SEGAL Family in France #france

Sherry Landa <sherry@...>
 

Hi Lois,

I don't understand what you mean when you say you have no way to contact
these gentlemen.
If you go to http://www.pagesjaunes.fr/pb.cgi and put Segal in the first box
and 75 in the last you'll get the street address, the home phone and the
mobile for Claude plus the street address and home phone of Philippe. So,
between the two of them you have 5 ways to contact them.

Are you perhaps asking someone to telephone them or write to them on your
behalf? If so, then I suggest a letter. Cold calling is sometimes fantastic
but when people are not expecting it and may be vulnerable in some way they
can find it very intimidating. In addition, for someone to help you they
would need to know what you want to say to these gentlemen and how they can
contact you. You gave your email address but if neither have internet access
that is not going to be much use. Also you need to think of the logistics.
If someone contacts them and they phone you and they don't speak English and
you don't speak French it could be tricky ;-) Also there is something like 6
hours between Florida and Paris so if they were to call you mid-morning you
might get a nasty shock at 3 am!

If you want to email me back, privately, I am more than happy to write to
these gentlemen on your behalf. Post is taking 2 working days >from here to
France at the moment and I have French stamps to include a return envelope
which I find gets you further if included.

Hope this helps a bit and look forward to hearing >from you if I can be of
further assistance.
Best wishes,
Sherry Landa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Once again I am searching for 'my' long lost SEGAL family. I now have
names and addresses so this might be helpful.


Suggestion #ukraine

GeoestherL@...
 

There are frequent postings requesting names of researchers with private
responses. Is it possible to establish "boards" , such as on Yahoo groups and
Cruisecritic, where members can post their experiences in this area? We could
also establish "threads" of discussions, such as where various towns are,
family names, etc., so that members could log in and take advantage of this
knowledge at a later date; this might shortcut rehashing of the same issues.
George Liss

MOD NOTE: Ukraine SIG messages are archived at
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop
Members should always check here first for town names.
Town names are also listed in modern & current usage at Shtetlinks
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Ukraine.html You could find
a possible match on this site.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Suggestion #ukraine

GeoestherL@...
 

There are frequent postings requesting names of researchers with private
responses. Is it possible to establish "boards" , such as on Yahoo groups and
Cruisecritic, where members can post their experiences in this area? We could
also establish "threads" of discussions, such as where various towns are,
family names, etc., so that members could log in and take advantage of this
knowledge at a later date; this might shortcut rehashing of the same issues.
George Liss

MOD NOTE: Ukraine SIG messages are archived at
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop
Members should always check here first for town names.
Town names are also listed in modern & current usage at Shtetlinks
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Ukraine.html You could find
a possible match on this site.


Re: CZ letter #austria-czech

Judy Landauer <geniegal@...>
 

Dick,

Well, I feel sheepish! Thank you for the clarification on the "CZ"
code. I will now head over to Panama and check them out more closely!
I guess I just needed another set of eyes to see what I missed. : )

Thank you again,

Judy Landauer


Re: German Translation Help #general

M R
 

Dear Genners,

Just wanted to thank everyone who responed to my query asking for help
translating "Keine Nahste Verwauste ne der Heimatsstadb" listed on my
relative's immigration record, which apparently should read "Keine naehste
Verwandte in der Heimatsstadt" and translates to "No closest relative in the
hometown."

Thanks again to all who responded.

Michael Rose
Long Island, NY


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: CZ letter #austria-czech

Judy Landauer <geniegal@...>
 

Dick,

Well, I feel sheepish! Thank you for the clarification on the "CZ"
code. I will now head over to Panama and check them out more closely!
I guess I just needed another set of eyes to see what I missed. : )

Thank you again,

Judy Landauer


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: German Translation Help #general

M R
 

Dear Genners,

Just wanted to thank everyone who responed to my query asking for help
translating "Keine Nahste Verwauste ne der Heimatsstadb" listed on my
relative's immigration record, which apparently should read "Keine naehste
Verwandte in der Heimatsstadt" and translates to "No closest relative in the
hometown."

Thanks again to all who responded.

Michael Rose
Long Island, NY


Submit Your Nominees to IAJGS Salutes #general

Lyn Blyden & Les Ungerleider <slu@...>
 

Dear Genners,

During the annual meeting of the IAJGS Conference in NYC, a new program was
announced to recognize individuals for their contributions to further the
study of Jewish Genealogy.

Please share information with members of your JGS about the newly formed
IAJGS Salutes committee. The goal of the committee is to SALUTE individuals
and non-profit organizations that have completed noteworthy projects and
activities relating to Jewish genealogy! The committee depends on YOU to
submit names and projects.

When submitting your nomination please provide appropriate documentation in
order that the committee can properly evaluate efforts and activities. As
guidelines, please submit information that supports the following criteria:

How did the project or activity increase the availability of resources for
Jewish Genealogy?
How did the project or activity demonstrate creative techniques others can
use?
How did the project or activity increase interest and participation in
Jewish Genealogy?

Please submit nominations to Lyn Blyden at lyn@pupik.com using the subject
line 'IAJGS Salutes Nomination'. Nominations may be submitted at any time
and recognition will be ongoing throughout the year. The committee will
consider nominations within 30 days of receipt and submit a recommendation
to the IAJGS President. Upon the endorsement of the president, the
organization or individual will be recognized.

For further information, please go to www.iajgs.org and click on the left
hand button that says IAJGS Salutes.

Remember, there is no deadline for nominations for IAJGS Salutes and no
limit to the number of those honored. Thanks to everyone for participating
in honoring those deserving of being Saluted!

Sincerely,

Lyn Blyden
Chair, IAJGS Salutes


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Submit Your Nominees to IAJGS Salutes #general

Lyn Blyden & Les Ungerleider <slu@...>
 

Dear Genners,

During the annual meeting of the IAJGS Conference in NYC, a new program was
announced to recognize individuals for their contributions to further the
study of Jewish Genealogy.

Please share information with members of your JGS about the newly formed
IAJGS Salutes committee. The goal of the committee is to SALUTE individuals
and non-profit organizations that have completed noteworthy projects and
activities relating to Jewish genealogy! The committee depends on YOU to
submit names and projects.

When submitting your nomination please provide appropriate documentation in
order that the committee can properly evaluate efforts and activities. As
guidelines, please submit information that supports the following criteria:

How did the project or activity increase the availability of resources for
Jewish Genealogy?
How did the project or activity demonstrate creative techniques others can
use?
How did the project or activity increase interest and participation in
Jewish Genealogy?

Please submit nominations to Lyn Blyden at lyn@pupik.com using the subject
line 'IAJGS Salutes Nomination'. Nominations may be submitted at any time
and recognition will be ongoing throughout the year. The committee will
consider nominations within 30 days of receipt and submit a recommendation
to the IAJGS President. Upon the endorsement of the president, the
organization or individual will be recognized.

For further information, please go to www.iajgs.org and click on the left
hand button that says IAJGS Salutes.

Remember, there is no deadline for nominations for IAJGS Salutes and no
limit to the number of those honored. Thanks to everyone for participating
in honoring those deserving of being Saluted!

Sincerely,

Lyn Blyden
Chair, IAJGS Salutes


Seeking Polish Researcher to Access Archives #general

d shiff
 

I am looking to contact a reputable Polish Researcher to assist me in
accessing the Polsih Government archives for the towns of Krasnik and
Sandomierz. Any help would be much appreciated.

Danny Shiff (Toronto, Canada)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Seeking Polish Researcher to Access Archives #general

d shiff
 

I am looking to contact a reputable Polish Researcher to assist me in
accessing the Polsih Government archives for the towns of Krasnik and
Sandomierz. Any help would be much appreciated.

Danny Shiff (Toronto, Canada)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately


Looking for Sara HADARI-ERLICH in Rishon Lezion, Israel #general

Donna Rice
 

I am trying to locate Sara HADARI-ERLICH in Rishon Lezion.
Her last name might be either of the two provided. She
submitted a page of testimony for Moshe FISCHER of Podhajce,
Poland in1999. Thank you for any help you might be able to
provide.
Donna Rice
hurycane@earthlink.net
Researching: FISCHER, HECHT, LANGBERG and MILCH >from Podhajce
and Buchach

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for Sara HADARI-ERLICH in Rishon Lezion, Israel #general

Donna Rice
 

I am trying to locate Sara HADARI-ERLICH in Rishon Lezion.
Her last name might be either of the two provided. She
submitted a page of testimony for Moshe FISCHER of Podhajce,
Poland in1999. Thank you for any help you might be able to
provide.
Donna Rice
hurycane@earthlink.net
Researching: FISCHER, HECHT, LANGBERG and MILCH >from Podhajce
and Buchach

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately