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Group effort: don't be afraid to make an effort re 'Puzzling Yiddish'.
#general
Eva Blanket
A more colloquial translation of "bovl-skhoyre" could be 'junk'.
Re the origin of the word 'bovl'. Could it be linked to the word 'bulvon/bulvan' which can mean thick-headed, built like an oaf, boorish, coarse or inferior person? In 'The Joys of Yiddish' by Leo Rosten, he mentions that the derivation of 'bulvon' is Slavic. Could the word 'bovl' also have had it's derivation >from Slavic? There is also a phrase 'di bist a bovl fin kop biz fis'.....my take on this is either 'you are an oaf >from head to toe' or possibly 'you are inferior from head to toe'.Yiddish words seem to take on slightly different meanings according to the whole phrase and also depending on the context in which the word or phrase is used. That is why I think it is sometimes difficult to translate Yiddish out of context. The same word can have a completely different meaning when used in 2 different phrases. Also, some phrases and words just don't have trans-literal translations....that is why it is so colourful and individual. You also find that there are different Yiddish words used for the same item by people who originate in different countries as their Yiddish is influenced by the country in which they lived. Eva BLANKET, Sydney.
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Group effort: don't be afraid to make an effort re 'Puzzling Yiddish'.
#general
Eva Blanket
A more colloquial translation of "bovl-skhoyre" could be 'junk'.
Re the origin of the word 'bovl'. Could it be linked to the word 'bulvon/bulvan' which can mean thick-headed, built like an oaf, boorish, coarse or inferior person? In 'The Joys of Yiddish' by Leo Rosten, he mentions that the derivation of 'bulvon' is Slavic. Could the word 'bovl' also have had it's derivation >from Slavic? There is also a phrase 'di bist a bovl fin kop biz fis'.....my take on this is either 'you are an oaf >from head to toe' or possibly 'you are inferior from head to toe'.Yiddish words seem to take on slightly different meanings according to the whole phrase and also depending on the context in which the word or phrase is used. That is why I think it is sometimes difficult to translate Yiddish out of context. The same word can have a completely different meaning when used in 2 different phrases. Also, some phrases and words just don't have trans-literal translations....that is why it is so colourful and individual. You also find that there are different Yiddish words used for the same item by people who originate in different countries as their Yiddish is influenced by the country in which they lived. Eva BLANKET, Sydney.
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Re: LERCHTENZIEHER {from Humenne/Homonna, Slovakia}
#general
Celia Male <celiamale@...>
Sy Pearlman wrote: "I have searched Jewishgen sources and found **nothing**
about the name LERCHTENZIEHER >from Humenee in Slovakia. Anyone know of such a family? Ida Schwarcz replied that the word likhttsier is equivalent to chandler in English, someone who makes candles. I know of such a family in my mother's home town of Stavisht, Ukraine, who became LESSURE in the US. Lekhtenzier would be the plural and would mean chandlers. The only problem is the "r" in the first syllable." The location is not Humenee but Homonna (Hungarian) or Humenne (Slovak) see: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/humenne/humenne.htm I would also like to add that as this family lived in Hungary/Slovakia, they were very likely of Moravian or possibly Bohemian origin. The modern German version for chandler is LICHTZIEHER - this family name may be a yiddish variant. I cannot find any early LERCHTENZIEHER in Bohemia and unfortunately I have not time to read through Hugo Gold's huge classic tome on the Jews of Moravia, so the Moravian research side is a big task. I did however look at the Hungarian Radix Index [free to search for names] - and there you find 40 LERCH; 11 LERS and 13 LERSH. http://www.radixindex.com/surnameindex/surnameindex_le.shtml I suspect these names may include some hidden LERCHTENZIEHER! There are other names on the list which may be Hungarified versions of the complex family name, which few self-respecting Hungarians would have used after a certain period! There is no-one of that name buried in Vienna. It is worth remembering that some names were indeed very rare. I have another such name, I will write about in the next day or so. Celia Male, London [U.K.]
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: LERCHTENZIEHER {from Humenne/Homonna, Slovakia}
#general
Celia Male <celiamale@...>
Sy Pearlman wrote: "I have searched Jewishgen sources and found **nothing**
about the name LERCHTENZIEHER >from Humenee in Slovakia. Anyone know of such a family? Ida Schwarcz replied that the word likhttsier is equivalent to chandler in English, someone who makes candles. I know of such a family in my mother's home town of Stavisht, Ukraine, who became LESSURE in the US. Lekhtenzier would be the plural and would mean chandlers. The only problem is the "r" in the first syllable." The location is not Humenee but Homonna (Hungarian) or Humenne (Slovak) see: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/humenne/humenne.htm I would also like to add that as this family lived in Hungary/Slovakia, they were very likely of Moravian or possibly Bohemian origin. The modern German version for chandler is LICHTZIEHER - this family name may be a yiddish variant. I cannot find any early LERCHTENZIEHER in Bohemia and unfortunately I have not time to read through Hugo Gold's huge classic tome on the Jews of Moravia, so the Moravian research side is a big task. I did however look at the Hungarian Radix Index [free to search for names] - and there you find 40 LERCH; 11 LERS and 13 LERSH. http://www.radixindex.com/surnameindex/surnameindex_le.shtml I suspect these names may include some hidden LERCHTENZIEHER! There are other names on the list which may be Hungarified versions of the complex family name, which few self-respecting Hungarians would have used after a certain period! There is no-one of that name buried in Vienna. It is worth remembering that some names were indeed very rare. I have another such name, I will write about in the next day or so. Celia Male, London [U.K.]
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Re: Jochet name in Polish corresponds to... Yocheved, in Hebrew ?
#general
Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
Yocheved would be fine, but remember that many European Jewish women
did not have Hebrew names. They had Yiddish or even Slavic-origin names, without a 'corresponding' Hebrew name. So she might have been Jochet - with no Hebrew name, like I am Sally with no Hebrew name. Sally Bruckheimer Princeton, NJ
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Jochet name in Polish corresponds to... Yocheved, in Hebrew ?
#general
Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
Yocheved would be fine, but remember that many European Jewish women
did not have Hebrew names. They had Yiddish or even Slavic-origin names, without a 'corresponding' Hebrew name. So she might have been Jochet - with no Hebrew name, like I am Sally with no Hebrew name. Sally Bruckheimer Princeton, NJ
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Schneiderman, Taylor Family
#unitedkingdom
Donna Russell-Snyder <donnarsnyder@...>
I am searching for information on Isaac Schneiderman, born ca 1807. He
emigrated and settled in London, England, ca 1900. Wife, Annie; children, David, Harry, Samuel David, Morry, Jean, Faye, and Harvey all came a bit later we think. Isaac owned "Gentleman's Tailor" in London. Sam, Morry, and Harry emigrated to the United States. The rest of the family remained in England. Isaac, Annie, and David are all buried in Rainham Cemetery in London. If any of this sounds familiar, or if anyone can help me with the research, I would appreciate it. Thank you, Donna Russell-Snyder donnarsnyder@gmail.com
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Jews helped out of Germany in 1936
#general
Susan Stock <susiestock@...>
Hello all,
I have a friend who has asked me to post this on his behalf, knowing that his father helped many Jews to escape Germany in 1936. The information he has given me is as follows: Otto August REICHOW was born in Tempelberg ,Pomerania. He worked as a chauffer and had a cab business in Berlin. He left Germany right after the 1936 Olympic games in Berlin because the SA has killed his brother over a bill they did not pay for in his resturant. His name was Franz Reichow. His unlce Wener did not get out of Germany and was in the Army and captured on the Russian front as a prisoner of war. He died of cancer in the United States back in 1973. The people that the Reichow family helped were probably in Berlin. He was offered money, which he refused to accept and helped them anyway. If any of this information sounds like it might have something to do with your family, please let me know, as Otto Reichow's son would very much like to follow up. If you would like to respond privately, susemail me at susiestock@gmail.com Thank you, Susan Brandt Stock Researching: BERNSTEIN, Nyiregyhaza, Hungary; COOPERMAN, Russia, London ; FETBRANDT, FETBRANT:Poland; GETZLER :Poland; KOHN: Hungary; ROTTENBERG, SCHWARCZ: Hungary, STOCK:Latvia; WEISZ: Hungary
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Schneiderman, Taylor Family
#unitedkingdom
Donna Russell-Snyder <donnarsnyder@...>
I am searching for information on Isaac Schneiderman, born ca 1807. He
emigrated and settled in London, England, ca 1900. Wife, Annie; children, David, Harry, Samuel David, Morry, Jean, Faye, and Harvey all came a bit later we think. Isaac owned "Gentleman's Tailor" in London. Sam, Morry, and Harry emigrated to the United States. The rest of the family remained in England. Isaac, Annie, and David are all buried in Rainham Cemetery in London. If any of this sounds familiar, or if anyone can help me with the research, I would appreciate it. Thank you, Donna Russell-Snyder donnarsnyder@gmail.com
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jews helped out of Germany in 1936
#general
Susan Stock <susiestock@...>
Hello all,
I have a friend who has asked me to post this on his behalf, knowing that his father helped many Jews to escape Germany in 1936. The information he has given me is as follows: Otto August REICHOW was born in Tempelberg ,Pomerania. He worked as a chauffer and had a cab business in Berlin. He left Germany right after the 1936 Olympic games in Berlin because the SA has killed his brother over a bill they did not pay for in his resturant. His name was Franz Reichow. His unlce Wener did not get out of Germany and was in the Army and captured on the Russian front as a prisoner of war. He died of cancer in the United States back in 1973. The people that the Reichow family helped were probably in Berlin. He was offered money, which he refused to accept and helped them anyway. If any of this information sounds like it might have something to do with your family, please let me know, as Otto Reichow's son would very much like to follow up. If you would like to respond privately, susemail me at susiestock@gmail.com Thank you, Susan Brandt Stock Researching: BERNSTEIN, Nyiregyhaza, Hungary; COOPERMAN, Russia, London ; FETBRANDT, FETBRANT:Poland; GETZLER :Poland; KOHN: Hungary; ROTTENBERG, SCHWARCZ: Hungary, STOCK:Latvia; WEISZ: Hungary
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Gravestones and burial records -- Vienna and Jerusalem
#general
David Scriven
Dear All,
My great-grandmother, Chane Mindel RUSS (nee POMERANZ), is buried in the ZentralFriedhof in Vienna (Section: T4 Group: 16 Row: 8 Grave: 68 according the JewishGen database).I've searched the web and alas, I can find no image of the gravestone. I would like to get an image as I have no knowledge of her family and hopefully the gravestone would indicate the names of her parents. Is there any way I can get an image of this? My great-grandfather, Dawid HaCohen Russ, died in Jeruslaem in the 1930's and was buried (so I've been told) in the cemetery on the Mt of Olives. Is there anywhere I can find records from this cemetery? I suspect that his grave was destroyed when a road was driven through the cemetery in the period 1948-1967. Dawid & Chana lived in the Drohobycz/Broyslaw area - at least when my grandmother and her siblings were born. David Scriven
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Gravestones and burial records -- Vienna and Jerusalem
#general
David Scriven
Dear All,
My great-grandmother, Chane Mindel RUSS (nee POMERANZ), is buried in the ZentralFriedhof in Vienna (Section: T4 Group: 16 Row: 8 Grave: 68 according the JewishGen database).I've searched the web and alas, I can find no image of the gravestone. I would like to get an image as I have no knowledge of her family and hopefully the gravestone would indicate the names of her parents. Is there any way I can get an image of this? My great-grandfather, Dawid HaCohen Russ, died in Jeruslaem in the 1930's and was buried (so I've been told) in the cemetery on the Mt of Olives. Is there anywhere I can find records from this cemetery? I suspect that his grave was destroyed when a road was driven through the cemetery in the period 1948-1967. Dawid & Chana lived in the Drohobycz/Broyslaw area - at least when my grandmother and her siblings were born. David Scriven
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Conference Volunteers Needed
#hungary
Vivian Kahn <viviankahn@...>
Dear All,
I'm looking forward to seeing many of you in a few weeks at the IAJGS Conference in Chicago. On Tuesday, August 19, H-SIG will be having a luncheon >from 12:30-2 pm as well as our annual business meeting at 9:45 am. We've been asked to provide 1 or 2 volunteers to collection luncheon tickets. If you're willing to help out, please contact me off-list by Tuesday, July 15 Also, because we're going to be preparing materials for distribution at these events, it will be helpful to know how many of you are planning to attend. Please contact me off-list and provide that information as well. You can view the entire conference program at http://www.chicago2008.org/program.cfm Vivian -------------------------- Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA Hungarian SIG Coordinator http://web.mac.com/lmort/Vivian_Kahn_Family_Website/Home_.html Researching: ADLER/Sighet, Giulesti, Rom. (Maramarossziget, Gyulafalva, Hun.) BAL/BERKOVICS/BERKOWITZ/ROTH/Orasu Nou, Rom. (Ujvaros, Hung.); Seini, Rom. (Szinervaralja, Hun), Vamfalu, Hung. (Vama, Rom.) FERBER/Sajoszentpeter, Hun, Netanya, Israel FRIEDMAN/Sighet, Oradea, Satu Mare, Rom. GROSZ/Orasu Nou, Rom., Szatmar megye, Hung. GRUNVALD/Humenne, Slov. KAHAN/Sighet, Rom.(Maramarossziget, Hun) KOHN/Zebegnyo, Tarnoka, Zemplen, Hun. ,(Zbehnov, Trnvka, Slov.), Cleveland KORNIS/Miskolc, Hung. LEFKOVICS/Zemplen megye, Hung. MARKUS/Sepsiszentgyorgy, Hung. (Sfante Gheorghu, Rom) MOSKOVITS/MOSKOWITZ/MOSS, Ostrov (Kisozstro), Sobrance, Michalovce, Nyiregyhaza, Cleveland NEUMANN/Sobrance, Michalovce, Kereszt (Kristy, Slov.) POLACSEK/Sobrance ROSENBLUM/Oradea, Satu Mare, Rom. ROSENBERG/Ungvar (Uzhorod, Ukr.) ROTH/Ujvaros, Hun. (Orasu Nou, Rom. SIMKO/Kosice VERO, WEISBERGER/Debrecen, Nyirbator SEGAL/ZEGAL/Sziget (Sighet, Rom) ZICHERMAN/Sobrance
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Hungary SIG #Hungary Conference Volunteers Needed
#hungary
Vivian Kahn <viviankahn@...>
Dear All,
I'm looking forward to seeing many of you in a few weeks at the IAJGS Conference in Chicago. On Tuesday, August 19, H-SIG will be having a luncheon >from 12:30-2 pm as well as our annual business meeting at 9:45 am. We've been asked to provide 1 or 2 volunteers to collection luncheon tickets. If you're willing to help out, please contact me off-list by Tuesday, July 15 Also, because we're going to be preparing materials for distribution at these events, it will be helpful to know how many of you are planning to attend. Please contact me off-list and provide that information as well. You can view the entire conference program at http://www.chicago2008.org/program.cfm Vivian -------------------------- Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA Hungarian SIG Coordinator http://web.mac.com/lmort/Vivian_Kahn_Family_Website/Home_.html Researching: ADLER/Sighet, Giulesti, Rom. (Maramarossziget, Gyulafalva, Hun.) BAL/BERKOVICS/BERKOWITZ/ROTH/Orasu Nou, Rom. (Ujvaros, Hung.); Seini, Rom. (Szinervaralja, Hun), Vamfalu, Hung. (Vama, Rom.) FERBER/Sajoszentpeter, Hun, Netanya, Israel FRIEDMAN/Sighet, Oradea, Satu Mare, Rom. GROSZ/Orasu Nou, Rom., Szatmar megye, Hung. GRUNVALD/Humenne, Slov. KAHAN/Sighet, Rom.(Maramarossziget, Hun) KOHN/Zebegnyo, Tarnoka, Zemplen, Hun. ,(Zbehnov, Trnvka, Slov.), Cleveland KORNIS/Miskolc, Hung. LEFKOVICS/Zemplen megye, Hung. MARKUS/Sepsiszentgyorgy, Hung. (Sfante Gheorghu, Rom) MOSKOVITS/MOSKOWITZ/MOSS, Ostrov (Kisozstro), Sobrance, Michalovce, Nyiregyhaza, Cleveland NEUMANN/Sobrance, Michalovce, Kereszt (Kristy, Slov.) POLACSEK/Sobrance ROSENBLUM/Oradea, Satu Mare, Rom. ROSENBERG/Ungvar (Uzhorod, Ukr.) ROTH/Ujvaros, Hun. (Orasu Nou, Rom. SIMKO/Kosice VERO, WEISBERGER/Debrecen, Nyirbator SEGAL/ZEGAL/Sziget (Sighet, Rom) ZICHERMAN/Sobrance
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FORINT THANK YOU
#hungary
Bonnie Frederics <bfrederics@...>
Siggers,
A big thank you to all who responded to my question re the value of 5,000 forints in 1879. The consensus seems to be that it was a substantial amount. I know it was the custom that the bride's family paid a dowry, so I wonder why my gr-grandmother paid it herself (according to the contract), as her father was still living. It does say she lived independently and was of financial means, so I'm guessing she inherited the money >from her late mother's estate. Ah, a new mystery to solve! Regards, Bonnie Zeisler Frederics Tucson, AZ SEEKING: ZEISLER, LOWY/LORY, UNGER, ECSEDI, HERZFELD, GROSZ (Eger, Budapest, Gyongyos, Szolnok, Szentes, Miskolc, Vacs)
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Re: EXCHANGE RATE FOR FORINTS
#hungary
Ilan Kozma <kozmai@...>
Forint was the Hungarian currency until 1892, when it was replaced by
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the korona. After WW1, The Pengo became the curreny until 1946, when the Forint became again the currency again. By the Catholic Encyclopedia, the salary for a priest throughout the 19th century was 400 forint (160 $) , so the excahnge rate was 2.5 forint per dollar. Alas, they do not say whether the the salary was monthly or yearly. Ilan Kozma Tel Aviv MODERATOR: Currency discussions are now terminated. Please continue discussion off-list. tom wrote:
Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/
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Hungary SIG #Hungary FORINT THANK YOU
#hungary
Bonnie Frederics <bfrederics@...>
Siggers,
A big thank you to all who responded to my question re the value of 5,000 forints in 1879. The consensus seems to be that it was a substantial amount. I know it was the custom that the bride's family paid a dowry, so I wonder why my gr-grandmother paid it herself (according to the contract), as her father was still living. It does say she lived independently and was of financial means, so I'm guessing she inherited the money >from her late mother's estate. Ah, a new mystery to solve! Regards, Bonnie Zeisler Frederics Tucson, AZ SEEKING: ZEISLER, LOWY/LORY, UNGER, ECSEDI, HERZFELD, GROSZ (Eger, Budapest, Gyongyos, Szolnok, Szentes, Miskolc, Vacs)
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Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: EXCHANGE RATE FOR FORINTS
#hungary
Ilan Kozma <kozmai@...>
Forint was the Hungarian currency until 1892, when it was replaced by
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the korona. After WW1, The Pengo became the curreny until 1946, when the Forint became again the currency again. By the Catholic Encyclopedia, the salary for a priest throughout the 19th century was 400 forint (160 $) , so the excahnge rate was 2.5 forint per dollar. Alas, they do not say whether the the salary was monthly or yearly. Ilan Kozma Tel Aviv MODERATOR: Currency discussions are now terminated. Please continue discussion off-list. tom wrote:
Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/
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A valid e-mail address for Louis Schonfeld
#hungary
Amos Israel Zezmer <amos.zezmer@...>
If anyone has a valid e-mail address for Louis Schonfeld, would you
please forward it to me privately? All the addresses I have for him are being rejected, either for being invalid or for being filled over quota. I need to get some information >from him regarding his Shtetl page for Munkács. Best regards, Amos Zezmer Yerres, France
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Re: EXCHANGE RATE FOR FORINTS
#hungary
jg@...
The forint of 1879 is not the current forint which is being used since
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
1946. During 1868-1892, the forint was used as the Hungarian name for the Austrian-Hungarian currency which was known in German as Austro-Hungarian gulden or Austrian florin. The name comes >from the city of Florence, Italy, which was a source of gold coins in mediaval times. The value of ancient coins was derived by their metal content. Between 1857-1892, the gulden contained 11.11 grams of silver. 5000F of 1879 are 55.555 Kg silver or 1960 oz. based on current rate of 18.18 USD /silver oz, its value can be estimated as 35,600 US dollar. Sources: Hungarian Forint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Forint Austro-Hungarian gulden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_gulden Current silver index: http://www.findata.co.nz/markets/Quote.aspx?e=INDEX&s=SLV Amnon JONAS, Israel ====================================== Researching: JONAS/JONASZ, BILLITZER/BILITZER - Miskolc, Godollo, Foro, Encs, Szikszo, Eger (Hungary), Hunsdorf=Huncovce=Hunfalva (Slovakia), Austria HERZL- Everywhere, mainly Dunafoldvar, Jaszbereny, Tapiobicske (Hungary) GROSZWIRTH/GROSSWIRTH, KLEIN, SCHREIBER, ROTH, FRANKEL, GRUNWALD - Presov, Lipjani, Kosice, Bratislave, Slanica (Slovakia), Miskolc, Nyiregihaza (Hungary) KORITZ,SCHWEITZER,ROSINGER - Szikszo, Miskolc (Hungary),Nyitra (Slovakia), Argentina Family Websites: herzlfamily.org Future websites: jonasfamily.org grosswirth.com Bonnie Frederics wrote:
Would anybody know what the exchange rate to US dollars would have been on
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