Date   

LANDSMAN from Jonava, Lithuania (plus GRINBLATT, KARMEL, KLIORFAIN) #general

MandJMeyers <mandjmeyers@...>
 

My great-grandfather Abram LANDSMAN (born c.1855?) was the son of Girsh
LANDSMAN according to an 1894 Vilna birth record
for a son of Abram that indicated Abram came >from nearby Paberze.

In searching those names, I've found than many (if not most) LANDSMAN
from the greater Vilna area were originally >from Bagaslaviskis. In
particular, one Girsh LANDSMAN (family >from Bagaslaviskis) had a number
of children in Jonava, 3 of whom had the name Abram in one form or
another (Abram Leib died at age 17 in 1891, Abram Yakov died as an
infant in 1899, Abram Ruvvin was born in 1909).

Even more interesting is that this Girsh's wife was Basa Jenta
GRINBLATT and an old family photo album shows a mysterious 'Aunt
GREENBLATT' whom no one alive remembers. Very likely we are related in
some manner.

Known marriages of children of this Girsh include Reiza (married Israel
KARMEL) and Mordkhel (married Raiklia KLIORFAIN).

If this sounds familiar, please contact me privately at
<MandJMeyers@gmail.com>

Marty Meyers
Montclair, NJ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LANDSMAN from Jonava, Lithuania (plus GRINBLATT, KARMEL, KLIORFAIN) #general

MandJMeyers <mandjmeyers@...>
 

My great-grandfather Abram LANDSMAN (born c.1855?) was the son of Girsh
LANDSMAN according to an 1894 Vilna birth record
for a son of Abram that indicated Abram came >from nearby Paberze.

In searching those names, I've found than many (if not most) LANDSMAN
from the greater Vilna area were originally >from Bagaslaviskis. In
particular, one Girsh LANDSMAN (family >from Bagaslaviskis) had a number
of children in Jonava, 3 of whom had the name Abram in one form or
another (Abram Leib died at age 17 in 1891, Abram Yakov died as an
infant in 1899, Abram Ruvvin was born in 1909).

Even more interesting is that this Girsh's wife was Basa Jenta
GRINBLATT and an old family photo album shows a mysterious 'Aunt
GREENBLATT' whom no one alive remembers. Very likely we are related in
some manner.

Known marriages of children of this Girsh include Reiza (married Israel
KARMEL) and Mordkhel (married Raiklia KLIORFAIN).

If this sounds familiar, please contact me privately at
<MandJMeyers@gmail.com>

Marty Meyers
Montclair, NJ


Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

A. E. Jordan
 

I checked a shipping reference book called North Atlantic Seaway which is
considered to be one of the best reference sources on trans-Atlantic shipping.
The only Coblenz they list was built in 1897 for North German Lloyd
(Norddeutscher LLoyd). She was introduced in 1897 sailing >from Bremen to Rio de
Janeiro and Santos. According to this reference source she did not sail the USA
route till 1900 when she went Bremen to Baltimore and later added a stop in
Philadelphia. Its possible this book is wrong but North German Lloyd was a
Bremen firm so it would be very unlikely to find them in Hamburg.

Leith Line did not sail trans-Atlantic to the USA. Its possible that Leith
Line had a ship with the same name but I suspect it only ran Germany to
Scotland (Leith being a city just outside Edinburgh) and there your family
member must have changed ships before heading to America.

Using August 1899 as a starting date look for other ships between
England/Scotland and the USA with your family.

Allan Jordan


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

A. E. Jordan
 

I checked a shipping reference book called North Atlantic Seaway which is
considered to be one of the best reference sources on trans-Atlantic shipping.
The only Coblenz they list was built in 1897 for North German Lloyd
(Norddeutscher LLoyd). She was introduced in 1897 sailing >from Bremen to Rio de
Janeiro and Santos. According to this reference source she did not sail the USA
route till 1900 when she went Bremen to Baltimore and later added a stop in
Philadelphia. Its possible this book is wrong but North German Lloyd was a
Bremen firm so it would be very unlikely to find them in Hamburg.

Leith Line did not sail trans-Atlantic to the USA. Its possible that Leith
Line had a ship with the same name but I suspect it only ran Germany to
Scotland (Leith being a city just outside Edinburgh) and there your family
member must have changed ships before heading to America.

Using August 1899 as a starting date look for other ships between
England/Scotland and the USA with your family.

Allan Jordan


Re: Certificate of Arrival #general

phylliskramer1 <phylliskramer1@...>
 

Mitch Stone asked about the CofA. The "Certificate of Arrival" is a misnomer,
because this document was not generated at the time of arrival -- it was created
years later by Bureau of Naturalization as a verification of arrival. CofA has
extracted info >from the passenger manifest: name, date, port, and ship name

After June 29, 1911 the INS began to check passenger lists to verify a legal
arrival after 1906 (when the INS was formed); the CofA was then attached to the
Nat'n Petition. The requirement was subsequently waived if the alien had
entered before 6/21 and had resided in the U.S. continuously.

I've heard stories of immigrants "forging" the arrival date/ship, or even
"buying" the name of a date/ship in order to naturalize. One wonders if Mitch's
grandfather chose 1905 as an entry date because he was aware that it would not
be verified.
--
Happy Hunting!
Phyllis Kramer, NYC & PBG, Fla
VP, Education, JewishGen, Inc.
PhyllisKramer1@att.net,
researching (mostly Galicia):STECHER, TRACHMAN,>from Zmigrod,
Dukla, Krosno KRAMER, BEIM, WISNER >from Jasienica
SCHEINER, KANDEL, SCHIMMEL >from Strzyzow, Dubiecko
LINDNER, EICHEL >from Rohatyn (also Iasi, Romania)


Re: SIROTA family from Butrimonys, Lithuania #general

David Ellis
 

Sally,

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond to me.

I don't see a very big gap between my g-grandmother Chava and her next older
sibling Movsha, who was born only three years before her. Chava isn't the
youngest, since she had a sister Chana two years younger than herself. The
five children were born in 1841, 1846, 1949, 1852 and 1854, which is pretty
spread out and could be explained by infant mortality.

Double names are common and might be possible. Or one wife (Elka) could
have died, and some children might be hers and others might be >from Sorka.
Of my g-grandmother's descendants, and I've traced quite a lot, none appear
to have been named after any of the possible maternal ancestor names
Rachael, Sorka or Elka.

I don't think I have a lot of records to look at. I've gone over the
Revision History lists and the American death certificates. Nothing in my
searches of immigration records or Yad Vashem archives turned up anything
that appeared to be a match. Do you have specific suggestions where else I
could look?

The name Yaker or Yakir is unrelated to Jacob, but rather comes >from a
separate Hebrew root meaning "dear".

If you have any ideas where else I could try tracing the descendants of my
g-grandmother's siblings, I would be appreciative.


David J Ellis
djemkitso@verizon.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Certificate of Arrival #general

phylliskramer1 <phylliskramer1@...>
 

Mitch Stone asked about the CofA. The "Certificate of Arrival" is a misnomer,
because this document was not generated at the time of arrival -- it was created
years later by Bureau of Naturalization as a verification of arrival. CofA has
extracted info >from the passenger manifest: name, date, port, and ship name

After June 29, 1911 the INS began to check passenger lists to verify a legal
arrival after 1906 (when the INS was formed); the CofA was then attached to the
Nat'n Petition. The requirement was subsequently waived if the alien had
entered before 6/21 and had resided in the U.S. continuously.

I've heard stories of immigrants "forging" the arrival date/ship, or even
"buying" the name of a date/ship in order to naturalize. One wonders if Mitch's
grandfather chose 1905 as an entry date because he was aware that it would not
be verified.
--
Happy Hunting!
Phyllis Kramer, NYC & PBG, Fla
VP, Education, JewishGen, Inc.
PhyllisKramer1@att.net,
researching (mostly Galicia):STECHER, TRACHMAN,>from Zmigrod,
Dukla, Krosno KRAMER, BEIM, WISNER >from Jasienica
SCHEINER, KANDEL, SCHIMMEL >from Strzyzow, Dubiecko
LINDNER, EICHEL >from Rohatyn (also Iasi, Romania)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: SIROTA family from Butrimonys, Lithuania #general

David Ellis
 

Sally,

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond to me.

I don't see a very big gap between my g-grandmother Chava and her next older
sibling Movsha, who was born only three years before her. Chava isn't the
youngest, since she had a sister Chana two years younger than herself. The
five children were born in 1841, 1846, 1949, 1852 and 1854, which is pretty
spread out and could be explained by infant mortality.

Double names are common and might be possible. Or one wife (Elka) could
have died, and some children might be hers and others might be >from Sorka.
Of my g-grandmother's descendants, and I've traced quite a lot, none appear
to have been named after any of the possible maternal ancestor names
Rachael, Sorka or Elka.

I don't think I have a lot of records to look at. I've gone over the
Revision History lists and the American death certificates. Nothing in my
searches of immigration records or Yad Vashem archives turned up anything
that appeared to be a match. Do you have specific suggestions where else I
could look?

The name Yaker or Yakir is unrelated to Jacob, but rather comes >from a
separate Hebrew root meaning "dear".

If you have any ideas where else I could try tracing the descendants of my
g-grandmother's siblings, I would be appreciative.


David J Ellis
djemkitso@verizon.net


Re: SIROTA family from Butrimonys, Lithuania #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>
 

The 1858 Revision List would have been started when Chava was young, so it
would be relatively accurate for what was then 'recent'. There is a long gap
between Chava and the previous child; so I would guess that there might have been
something that happened in between - the usual would be to have another baby
every year or two. Perhaps there was a epidemic which killed several of the
babies born in the interim; perhaps there was a previous wife who died with
them. Chava comes at the end; she may have been born after the kids died and
she also may have been born to the 'previous wife', weakened by the epidemic,
who then died soon after. Maybe this 'Rachel' wife died in childbirth and there
was a third wife. Obviously, there is no way to tell exactly what happened >from
thislist, but a 10 year gap between babies is very unusual.

It could be that one or the other wife had a double name Rachel Sarah or
something,so we see her as one thing in the Revision List and the other in your
family memory.

It is also possible that 100 years later Sarah (Sorka) became Rachel in
somebody's memory (this reminds me of my family - my great grandfather had a
sister who 'went to Oklahoma, then Chicago and married somebody'- it was Omaha,
not Oklahoma).

Anyway, you have a lot of records to look at , maybe you can find something else
that says what her name was.

I also think that Yaker would be >from Jacob - Yakub.

Good luck,

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: SIROTA family from Butrimonys, Lithuania #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>
 

The 1858 Revision List would have been started when Chava was young, so it
would be relatively accurate for what was then 'recent'. There is a long gap
between Chava and the previous child; so I would guess that there might have been
something that happened in between - the usual would be to have another baby
every year or two. Perhaps there was a epidemic which killed several of the
babies born in the interim; perhaps there was a previous wife who died with
them. Chava comes at the end; she may have been born after the kids died and
she also may have been born to the 'previous wife', weakened by the epidemic,
who then died soon after. Maybe this 'Rachel' wife died in childbirth and there
was a third wife. Obviously, there is no way to tell exactly what happened >from
thislist, but a 10 year gap between babies is very unusual.

It could be that one or the other wife had a double name Rachel Sarah or
something,so we see her as one thing in the Revision List and the other in your
family memory.

It is also possible that 100 years later Sarah (Sorka) became Rachel in
somebody's memory (this reminds me of my family - my great grandfather had a
sister who 'went to Oklahoma, then Chicago and married somebody'- it was Omaha,
not Oklahoma).

Anyway, you have a lot of records to look at , maybe you can find something else
that says what her name was.

I also think that Yaker would be >from Jacob - Yakub.

Good luck,

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


Re: Coblenz #general

Carol Baker
 

Thank you all for your suggestions. I did make a mistake in my last
posting. The date was 1889 Not 1899. I'm still searching and checking out
all of your ideas.

Carol Baker

I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list leaving
Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via Glasgow. The ship is
listed as the Leith line. I can not find any arrivals of this ship in the
USA.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Coblenz #general

Carol Baker
 

Thank you all for your suggestions. I did make a mistake in my last
posting. The date was 1889 Not 1899. I'm still searching and checking out
all of your ideas.

Carol Baker

I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list leaving
Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via Glasgow. The ship is
listed as the Leith line. I can not find any arrivals of this ship in the
USA.


Joanna STERN #general

Efraim Stern
 

Dear Sigers!

Can someone help me please? I am seeking my fathers sister (He never knew
about her as his father did not tell him about her). All what I know about
Johanna STERN is:

Bertha MAYER >from RODHEIM VOR DER HOEHE near FRANKFURT am MAIN gave birth to
a daughter named Johanna on the 20/11/1899 in METZ.

Later a merchant named Jean VON TULTEE or DULDEE >from STRASBURG Brighthoehe
str. 19 adopted her.

Years after Ludwig Louis STERN >from WUERZBURG registered her as his
daughter. Johanna was entered as second child although she was born before
my father Siegfried (Schlomo) STERN who was born 5/3/1903.
Please answer privately to:e_stern@gonen.org.il

EFRAIM STERN.KIBUTZ GONEN.ISRAEL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Joanna STERN #general

Efraim Stern
 

Dear Sigers!

Can someone help me please? I am seeking my fathers sister (He never knew
about her as his father did not tell him about her). All what I know about
Johanna STERN is:

Bertha MAYER >from RODHEIM VOR DER HOEHE near FRANKFURT am MAIN gave birth to
a daughter named Johanna on the 20/11/1899 in METZ.

Later a merchant named Jean VON TULTEE or DULDEE >from STRASBURG Brighthoehe
str. 19 adopted her.

Years after Ludwig Louis STERN >from WUERZBURG registered her as his
daughter. Johanna was entered as second child although she was born before
my father Siegfried (Schlomo) STERN who was born 5/3/1903.
Please answer privately to:e_stern@gonen.org.il

EFRAIM STERN.KIBUTZ GONEN.ISRAEL


Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Carol Baker wrote:
I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list
leaving Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via
Glasgow. The ship is listed as the Leith line. I can not find any
arrivals of this ship in the USA.
Difficult if you do not give particulars about the person.

About the line and the ship:

Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co.

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/leith.htm
Coblenz 1883, 1932 scrapped.

Picture:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/leith/images/coblenz.jpg

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/lyakhovichi/MigrationTables1.htm
shows many arrivals >from the Coblenz to Castle Garden.

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Carol Baker wrote:
I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list
leaving Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via
Glasgow. The ship is listed as the Leith line. I can not find any
arrivals of this ship in the USA.
Difficult if you do not give particulars about the person.

About the line and the ship:

Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co.

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/leith.htm
Coblenz 1883, 1932 scrapped.

Picture:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/leith/images/coblenz.jpg

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/lyakhovichi/MigrationTables1.htm
shows many arrivals >from the Coblenz to Castle Garden.

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)


Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Susan&David
 

Carol:
Ancestry shows only one arrival of the ship in the US. >from Bremen to
Philadelphia arriving Dec 10, 1900.
There is no mention of the Coblenz in the on-line Historic New York
Times for August - September 1899. Ship arrivals & departures were
listed in their "Shipping and Foreign Mails" column daily.
The indirect list is an indication that your passenger transferred to
another ship in Glagow. Apparently the Coblenz did not go on to the USA.

David Rosen
Boston, MA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Susan&David
 

Carol:
Ancestry shows only one arrival of the ship in the US. >from Bremen to
Philadelphia arriving Dec 10, 1900.
There is no mention of the Coblenz in the on-line Historic New York
Times for August - September 1899. Ship arrivals & departures were
listed in their "Shipping and Foreign Mails" column daily.
The indirect list is an indication that your passenger transferred to
another ship in Glagow. Apparently the Coblenz did not go on to the USA.

David Rosen
Boston, MA


Translations from Polish cursive script #poland

Alan Kutner <alan.kutner@...>
 

I have obtained >from the Polish State Archives a copy of a death certificate
written in Polish cursive script, and would be grateful if anyone could
help me translate it into English?

Kind Regards,
Alan KUTNER
JewishGen ID: 242624
Researching: SKOKOWSKI - Dabie, Dobrsyn nad Wisla; VAVELBERG, WAWELBERG -
anywhere in the Russian Empire

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


JRI Poland #Poland Translations from Polish cursive script #poland

Alan Kutner <alan.kutner@...>
 

I have obtained >from the Polish State Archives a copy of a death certificate
written in Polish cursive script, and would be grateful if anyone could
help me translate it into English?

Kind Regards,
Alan KUTNER
JewishGen ID: 242624
Researching: SKOKOWSKI - Dabie, Dobrsyn nad Wisla; VAVELBERG, WAWELBERG -
anywhere in the Russian Empire

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.