Date   
Re: Jewish or English? #general

Yisrael Asper
 

The truth is that being Jewish is both a religious and ethnic classification
depending on context. Nationality is not really a good description as the Jews
have since the First Exile in Babylon always had a Diaspora. The peculiar Jewish
situation stems >from the time when every people had its own religion. There were
even more local deities too. When someone moved to a new place he adopted the
faith of the place. So when NonJews moved to Ancient Israel they became Jewish.
The difference was Judaism rejected other gods and so could survive in Exile. We
started the concept of absolute religion/ethics as opposed to pleasing local
deities with differing demands. If it were as simple as Religion or Ethnicity
we would not be having anything to discuss. No one calls the at least global
Catholic community an ethnic group.
Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@...
Pittsburgh PA

Re: Jews in England: Jewish star with a cross inside #general

Avrum Lapin
 

At 1:00 AM -0500 7/21/05, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:

Subject: Jews in England: Jewish star with a cross inside
From: dotvic < dotvic@... >
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:06:40 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4

Apropos to this subject I'd like to ask if anyone has knowledge of a Jewish
star with a cross inside? I found this engraved on a tombstone in Wales.
The graveyard was very, very old, overgrown with nettles and other weeds.

I was struck dumb by this sight. If I remember right the name on the stone
wasn't typically Jewish but that might not mean anything.

Many years later I saw the same symbol, a sixpointed star with a cross in
it, painted on the side of a hippy Volkswagon bus.
There is a large Mogen David stained window on a large church (Santa
Crocce) in Florence. The best explanation is that at the time the
church was designed "looks" were more important than being PC and the
architect went for what looked good (You can see a picture on the
cover of Rick Steve's book Italy 2005)

--
Avrum Lapin, of Upland, CA
avrum113@...

Researching:
LAPIN Grodno
LAPUNSKI Grodno,Indura and Sokolka
KATZ,Abraham Bialystok and Sokolka
LUBELSKY Bialystok
RODIN Winnipeg and Gomel

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish or English? #general

Yisrael Asper
 

The truth is that being Jewish is both a religious and ethnic classification
depending on context. Nationality is not really a good description as the Jews
have since the First Exile in Babylon always had a Diaspora. The peculiar Jewish
situation stems >from the time when every people had its own religion. There were
even more local deities too. When someone moved to a new place he adopted the
faith of the place. So when NonJews moved to Ancient Israel they became Jewish.
The difference was Judaism rejected other gods and so could survive in Exile. We
started the concept of absolute religion/ethics as opposed to pleasing local
deities with differing demands. If it were as simple as Religion or Ethnicity
we would not be having anything to discuss. No one calls the at least global
Catholic community an ethnic group.
Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@...
Pittsburgh PA

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jews in England: Jewish star with a cross inside #general

Avrum Lapin
 

At 1:00 AM -0500 7/21/05, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:

Subject: Jews in England: Jewish star with a cross inside
From: dotvic < dotvic@... >
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:06:40 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4

Apropos to this subject I'd like to ask if anyone has knowledge of a Jewish
star with a cross inside? I found this engraved on a tombstone in Wales.
The graveyard was very, very old, overgrown with nettles and other weeds.

I was struck dumb by this sight. If I remember right the name on the stone
wasn't typically Jewish but that might not mean anything.

Many years later I saw the same symbol, a sixpointed star with a cross in
it, painted on the side of a hippy Volkswagon bus.
There is a large Mogen David stained window on a large church (Santa
Crocce) in Florence. The best explanation is that at the time the
church was designed "looks" were more important than being PC and the
architect went for what looked good (You can see a picture on the
cover of Rick Steve's book Italy 2005)

--
Avrum Lapin, of Upland, CA
avrum113@...

Researching:
LAPIN Grodno
LAPUNSKI Grodno,Indura and Sokolka
KATZ,Abraham Bialystok and Sokolka
LUBELSKY Bialystok
RODIN Winnipeg and Gomel

Lida District ShtetLink #belarus

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

I regret to announce that the press of my personal life makes it impossible
for me to continue to be maintain the Lida District ShtetLink. I will be
happy to turn it over to someone who does.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI

Grodno #belarus

Aryeh Lopiansky <alop@...>
 

Whithin the past year (or two) a scholarly book on Grodno, written in
Hebrew, was published by one of the large Israeli publishing houses. If
anyone knows the name of the publisher [or how it can be obtained] please
let me know.

Aryeh Lopiansky
Jerusalem

Belarus SIG #Belarus Lida District ShtetLink #belarus

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

I regret to announce that the press of my personal life makes it impossible
for me to continue to be maintain the Lida District ShtetLink. I will be
happy to turn it over to someone who does.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI

Belarus SIG #Belarus Grodno #belarus

Aryeh Lopiansky <alop@...>
 

Whithin the past year (or two) a scholarly book on Grodno, written in
Hebrew, was published by one of the large Israeli publishing houses. If
anyone knows the name of the publisher [or how it can be obtained] please
let me know.

Aryeh Lopiansky
Jerusalem

How to get a book? #hungary

MTB <71431.1612@...>
 

Tom,

Here's a couple more ideas about that book:

1. See if you can locate business records >from the original publisher. =

Perhaps the stock of published books was left to another publisher, whom
you could locate.

2. With so many antiquarian bookstores in central Europe, and many of the=
m
online, maybe you can locate another copy of that book. =


3. I notice that the best-known online auction site allows you to leave
messages stating the item you are looking for, in case someone else has
that item. The same policy holds with several well-known online used boo=
k
sellers here in the states. You can post your request and someone may ha=
ve
that book.

4. Finally, if all else fails, you could find out what kind of scanners a=
re
useable at that Slovak library, and actually send them one, asking them t=
o
copy the book and mail you a copy, and then they can keep the scanner.

Do let us know what solution works for you, in the end!

Best wishes,
Maureen Tighe-Brown

Hungary SIG #Hungary How to get a book? #hungary

MTB <71431.1612@...>
 

Tom,

Here's a couple more ideas about that book:

1. See if you can locate business records >from the original publisher. =

Perhaps the stock of published books was left to another publisher, whom
you could locate.

2. With so many antiquarian bookstores in central Europe, and many of the=
m
online, maybe you can locate another copy of that book. =


3. I notice that the best-known online auction site allows you to leave
messages stating the item you are looking for, in case someone else has
that item. The same policy holds with several well-known online used boo=
k
sellers here in the states. You can post your request and someone may ha=
ve
that book.

4. Finally, if all else fails, you could find out what kind of scanners a=
re
useable at that Slovak library, and actually send them one, asking them t=
o
copy the book and mail you a copy, and then they can keep the scanner.

Do let us know what solution works for you, in the end!

Best wishes,
Maureen Tighe-Brown

Re: rom-sig digest: July 20, 2005 #romania

Sorin Goldenberg <SorinG@...>
 

Hi,

About obtaining civil records >from Romania,

I wonder if you may clarify some things:

1. The exact date of birth date may be unknown, just an approximate
estimate. What do you supose can be done in such cases?
2. Is this service free ??? (I don't believe in getting good service for
free)
3. When sending request by fax, how do they intend to reply ?
4. What are international reply coupons ?

Thanks


Sorin Goldenberg,

This mail was sent >from mail.wisair.com

Romania SIG #Romania RE: rom-sig digest: July 20, 2005 #romania

Sorin Goldenberg <SorinG@...>
 

Hi,

About obtaining civil records >from Romania,

I wonder if you may clarify some things:

1. The exact date of birth date may be unknown, just an approximate
estimate. What do you supose can be done in such cases?
2. Is this service free ??? (I don't believe in getting good service for
free)
3. When sending request by fax, how do they intend to reply ?
4. What are international reply coupons ?

Thanks


Sorin Goldenberg,

This mail was sent >from mail.wisair.com

Remembering Alice GUTTMANN of Tabor. #austria-czech

michal <mbeer@...>
 

When I read Celia Males` account of the GUTTMANN
families of Tabor, I immediately thought of Alice
GUTTMANN >from Tabor [dob 19 September 1928] and her family.
Alice was my bunk fellow for a few months in
the ghetto of Theresienstadt. Alice was a talented
painter and some of her paintings are in the Jewish
Museum in Prague, Jachymova Street 3.

Like most others, she did not survive. Together with
her mother, Emilie [dob 2.5.1906] she was sent to
Auschwitz on 6.9.1943. All people on that transport
Dl, except medical personal and twins perished.

I have written their testimonies on Yad vashem. They
are not linked on the database, but Celia has just
sent in a correction. Alice's father was probably
Karel GUTTMANN b. 20.6.1894, who died in the ghetto
6.1.1943. My father [Friedrich (Fritz) Stecklmacher,
7.12.1898 - 31.5.1943] although he was only 44, died
in Terezin/Theresienstadt too. He did not know it, but
his death probably saved the life of my mother, myself
and my younger sister.

I wrote a "short story" about Alice in 1986 called
"Blood and Bread".

The title can be understood if you realise that
parents sometimes gave blood transfusions to their
children to help them survive the polio epidemic.

In the Girls' Home L410 there was an infirmary - Dr
STERN and Dr FISCHER worked there and there were a few
nurses too. They took blood >from the parents' vein and
it was injected into the children's muscles. Here is
the story which shows the sacrifices the parents made
for the sake of their children:

Ghetto Terezin was frightfully overcrowded. Despite
all possible efforts, it was difficult to maintain
proper hygiene. We shared our lodgings with bed bugs,
fleas and lice of every kind. We were undernourished
and suffered >from numerous diseases - scarlet fever
and T.B., various sorts of typhus and polio too. The
health committee of the ghetto decided that the best
way to defend children against polio infection was to
arrange a blood transfusion >from a parent, hoping that
the adult's immunity would thus be passed on to the
child.

At that time my bunk neighbour was Alice GUTTMANN, a
pale thin and delicate girl. Both of us no longer had
a father.

Alice and I saved up some margarine and this we mixed
with a little dehydrated soup powder we got somehow,
into a spread of sorts. Each of us contributed a slice
of bread and after receiving the vital blood
transfusion >from our mothers, we served them the two
"buttered" slices nicely arranged on a makeshift
platter, as a token of gratitude.

It was not easy to persuade them to accept this
gesture, but we persisted and felt wonderful watching
our ever-hungry mothers eat with much appetite.

Maud Michal Beer [Israel]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Remembering Alice GUTTMANN of Tabor. #austria-czech

michal <mbeer@...>
 

When I read Celia Males` account of the GUTTMANN
families of Tabor, I immediately thought of Alice
GUTTMANN >from Tabor [dob 19 September 1928] and her family.
Alice was my bunk fellow for a few months in
the ghetto of Theresienstadt. Alice was a talented
painter and some of her paintings are in the Jewish
Museum in Prague, Jachymova Street 3.

Like most others, she did not survive. Together with
her mother, Emilie [dob 2.5.1906] she was sent to
Auschwitz on 6.9.1943. All people on that transport
Dl, except medical personal and twins perished.

I have written their testimonies on Yad vashem. They
are not linked on the database, but Celia has just
sent in a correction. Alice's father was probably
Karel GUTTMANN b. 20.6.1894, who died in the ghetto
6.1.1943. My father [Friedrich (Fritz) Stecklmacher,
7.12.1898 - 31.5.1943] although he was only 44, died
in Terezin/Theresienstadt too. He did not know it, but
his death probably saved the life of my mother, myself
and my younger sister.

I wrote a "short story" about Alice in 1986 called
"Blood and Bread".

The title can be understood if you realise that
parents sometimes gave blood transfusions to their
children to help them survive the polio epidemic.

In the Girls' Home L410 there was an infirmary - Dr
STERN and Dr FISCHER worked there and there were a few
nurses too. They took blood >from the parents' vein and
it was injected into the children's muscles. Here is
the story which shows the sacrifices the parents made
for the sake of their children:

Ghetto Terezin was frightfully overcrowded. Despite
all possible efforts, it was difficult to maintain
proper hygiene. We shared our lodgings with bed bugs,
fleas and lice of every kind. We were undernourished
and suffered >from numerous diseases - scarlet fever
and T.B., various sorts of typhus and polio too. The
health committee of the ghetto decided that the best
way to defend children against polio infection was to
arrange a blood transfusion >from a parent, hoping that
the adult's immunity would thus be passed on to the
child.

At that time my bunk neighbour was Alice GUTTMANN, a
pale thin and delicate girl. Both of us no longer had
a father.

Alice and I saved up some margarine and this we mixed
with a little dehydrated soup powder we got somehow,
into a spread of sorts. Each of us contributed a slice
of bread and after receiving the vital blood
transfusion >from our mothers, we served them the two
"buttered" slices nicely arranged on a makeshift
platter, as a token of gratitude.

It was not easy to persuade them to accept this
gesture, but we persisted and felt wonderful watching
our ever-hungry mothers eat with much appetite.

Maud Michal Beer [Israel]

Re: Liverpool roots #unitedkingdom

Berny Goodheart <berny.goodheart@...>
 

Yes LJGS is unfortunately down.
I still have all the site data so hopefully one day I will restore it and
bring it back on line. The issue
is the cost of running and maintaining the site, the data and the CDs. It
was a hobby for me at first but as it grew
I could not afford to fund it anymore out my own pocket. I tried several
avenues to get funding. Some of them were going
to be fruitful but never eventuated. They backed down when it came to the
crunch. So I lost heart with it and so it
closed down. Basically, I need a site that is prepared to host LJGS for free
while allowing me (and not any other party) to maintain it. It must have
lots of disk space (1Gb+), have all the main web hosting facilities such as
CGI, Perl, Java, Forum, etc. It must run on Linux or a Unix box, allows ftp
upload, telnet and email service. That will at least allow the site to stay
up if nothing else. It's a lot to ask for but there you have it.

The CDs are still available but are now a single CDROM with all the
Liverpool registers I transcribed and
photographed. The single CDROM contains the following searchable registers.
However, unless I get orders that amount to at least 50 of them being made
it's not worth processing. Contact me at bernyg.ljgs@... if you are
interested.

Fountains Rd synagogue marriage register 1893-1914
Hope Place Synagogue marriage register 1898-1903
Hope Place synagogue marriage register 1908-1918
Shaw Street synagogue marriage register 1915-1924
Broad Green cemetery register 1904-1942
Deane Road cemetery register 1837-1919
Rice Lane cemetery register 1896-1910
Rice Lane cemetery register 1910-1967
Green Lane cemetery survey 1979
Register book for the Jews of Liverpool 1805-1816
Princes Road synagogue congregation list 1891-92

Cheers,
Berny M. Goodheart
LJGS

JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Liverpool roots #unitedkingdom

Berny Goodheart <berny.goodheart@...>
 

Yes LJGS is unfortunately down.
I still have all the site data so hopefully one day I will restore it and
bring it back on line. The issue
is the cost of running and maintaining the site, the data and the CDs. It
was a hobby for me at first but as it grew
I could not afford to fund it anymore out my own pocket. I tried several
avenues to get funding. Some of them were going
to be fruitful but never eventuated. They backed down when it came to the
crunch. So I lost heart with it and so it
closed down. Basically, I need a site that is prepared to host LJGS for free
while allowing me (and not any other party) to maintain it. It must have
lots of disk space (1Gb+), have all the main web hosting facilities such as
CGI, Perl, Java, Forum, etc. It must run on Linux or a Unix box, allows ftp
upload, telnet and email service. That will at least allow the site to stay
up if nothing else. It's a lot to ask for but there you have it.

The CDs are still available but are now a single CDROM with all the
Liverpool registers I transcribed and
photographed. The single CDROM contains the following searchable registers.
However, unless I get orders that amount to at least 50 of them being made
it's not worth processing. Contact me at bernyg.ljgs@... if you are
interested.

Fountains Rd synagogue marriage register 1893-1914
Hope Place Synagogue marriage register 1898-1903
Hope Place synagogue marriage register 1908-1918
Shaw Street synagogue marriage register 1915-1924
Broad Green cemetery register 1904-1942
Deane Road cemetery register 1837-1919
Rice Lane cemetery register 1896-1910
Rice Lane cemetery register 1910-1967
Green Lane cemetery survey 1979
Register book for the Jews of Liverpool 1805-1816
Princes Road synagogue congregation list 1891-92

Cheers,
Berny M. Goodheart
LJGS

Klepperle / Klepplerer #austria-czech

David & Diana Laufer <dlaufer@...>
 

On row 125 of the Vienna marriage record that appears in View Mate 6526
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6526
Is the marriage of Eduard LAUFER to Francisca KLEPPERLE.
However, in the far right columns the surname is spelt KLEPPLERE
or KLEPPLERER

I am aware that spellings do change over time and place, but to find
different spellings in the same document is a bit surprising to me.
At first I thought this was a mere clerical error, with the official
placing the L in the wrong location in one instance. More recently, my
attention was drawn to an entry in the online Vienna Jewish cemetery
database that shows a Rosalia S. KLEPERLE-KLEPERER buried on 20/02/1882 at
ZF TOR I Group 6 Row 22 Grave 44.

This suggests the alternate spellings were used simultaneously.

Can anyone provide an explanation, or is aware of similar instances ?
Which of these two surnames should one focus on for researching ?
Both ?

Could Rosalia S. be the Sara who is the mother of Francisca in the
marriage document ?

As an aside, the above marriage couple are the great-grandparents of my
wife Diana.It was the coincidence of Eduard's with my own surname that
started me on the genealogy path some 20 years ago.

So far, I have only been able to prove we are related through our own marriage.

Regards

David LAUFER
Sydney, NSW Australia

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Klepperle / Klepplerer #austria-czech

David & Diana Laufer <dlaufer@...>
 

On row 125 of the Vienna marriage record that appears in View Mate 6526
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6526
Is the marriage of Eduard LAUFER to Francisca KLEPPERLE.
However, in the far right columns the surname is spelt KLEPPLERE
or KLEPPLERER

I am aware that spellings do change over time and place, but to find
different spellings in the same document is a bit surprising to me.
At first I thought this was a mere clerical error, with the official
placing the L in the wrong location in one instance. More recently, my
attention was drawn to an entry in the online Vienna Jewish cemetery
database that shows a Rosalia S. KLEPERLE-KLEPERER buried on 20/02/1882 at
ZF TOR I Group 6 Row 22 Grave 44.

This suggests the alternate spellings were used simultaneously.

Can anyone provide an explanation, or is aware of similar instances ?
Which of these two surnames should one focus on for researching ?
Both ?

Could Rosalia S. be the Sara who is the mother of Francisca in the
marriage document ?

As an aside, the above marriage couple are the great-grandparents of my
wife Diana.It was the coincidence of Eduard's with my own surname that
started me on the genealogy path some 20 years ago.

So far, I have only been able to prove we are related through our own marriage.

Regards

David LAUFER
Sydney, NSW Australia

Re: ABELES/AREND #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Susan Lubow >from ? is researching the family of David
ABELES and Eva KUSSY of Bohemia. She writes: I have
come across a number of ABELES family members who
changed their surname to AREND, probably shortly
after WWII. I understand that there are other
(unrelated) ABELES families whose members have made
the same change. It was probably done to sound less
Jewish. Does anyone know why the name AREND was
selected?"

My answer would be why not? Abeles was an archetypal
Jewish name and the butt of many jokes. There are 788
listings of ABELES and variants on Yad Vashem.

If you check on AREND and variants you will find 157
victims - many >from the Netherlands. Were they
originally ABELES? I suspect not. Perhaps they were
variants of Aaron? Perhaps some Bohemian and Moravian
ABELES were also *Aaron* before the Joseph II name
changes?

There is some confirmation of my snap amateur
judgement in this website, but we will no doubt hear
more >from our real name experts:

http://mfp.math.uni-rostock.de/forschung/erf_jose_.htm

...... "we come to great-great-grandson Adolf
HINRICHSEN. Of him, I have a photograph. Adolf married
Sophie nee AARON. Of the people with this very
beautiful and very Jewish surname, many have changed
into the very usual surnames AHRENS, AHRENDT, AHRNDT,
probably 90% of the people with these names originate
from Jewish families named AARON."
The standard reason [in Vienna] for choosing a name
starting with the same letter as the original was that
one could still use the monogrammed handkerchiefs,
table linen, and silverware.

Two well-known Viennese ABELES families, who were
business partners but were unrelated, changed their
names to ARENS [in 1892] and ANNINGER [in 1888].
The ARENS family came >from Reichenau, Bohemia and
the ANNINGER family are descended >from a David
ABELES >from Waltsch [Valec], Bohemia. Waltsch as well
as being famous as the origin of the ABELES/ANNINGER
family of Vienna, is probably more famous for its
fossils and the famous watermouse [Carl Linne 1758].

http://palaeo-electronica.org/2005_1/fejfar8/intro.htm

These ABELES name changes took place at the end of the
19th century. There were obviously many other early
ABELES name changes - see:

http://old.hrad.cz/president/Havel/holocaust/seznam1.html

where AREND and ANNINGER are listed as well as many
ABELES Czech holocaust victims.

NOw to return to the name ABELES and the use of the
name in phrases and jokes. In May 2004, Martin Tompa
of Seattle wrote to us about the phrase *Cafe Abeles*
[please search the Austria-Czech message archives]:

I replied at the time: So when Martin's father called
out "Wo spielen wir, im Cafe Abeles?" [where are we
playing ... in Cafe Abeles?] he was obviously
referring to the chaotic state the card game had
degenerated into. It would be interesting to know if
this was a phrase used by Viennese referring to any
chaotic conditions.

A few months ago I did some research on Viennese cafes
and I did indeed find a cafe in the Mariahilferstrasse
whose proprietors were called ABELES in the early
years of the 20th century. I walked along the street
to find it - but I think it had turned into dingy
digital watch emporium! Could this perhaps have been
the notorious *Tarock Den* where many Viennese Jews
congregated and which gave rise to the now "homeless
phrase"?

There is a 1927 Austrian film {Dir. Hans Steinhoff}
called "Familientag im Hause Prellstein" with the
alternative Title: Cafe Abeles. Although I visited the
Film Museum in Vienna, no one had seen the vintage
film or could tell me where the phrase occurred.

I live in hope that there will be a remake perhaps
entitled "Cafe Arend" or "Cafe Anninger" and we may
get the answer to Martin Tompa's original query - see:

http://tinyurl.com/d7tkn

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: ABELES/AREND #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Susan Lubow >from ? is researching the family of David
ABELES and Eva KUSSY of Bohemia. She writes: I have
come across a number of ABELES family members who
changed their surname to AREND, probably shortly
after WWII. I understand that there are other
(unrelated) ABELES families whose members have made
the same change. It was probably done to sound less
Jewish. Does anyone know why the name AREND was
selected?"

My answer would be why not? Abeles was an archetypal
Jewish name and the butt of many jokes. There are 788
listings of ABELES and variants on Yad Vashem.

If you check on AREND and variants you will find 157
victims - many >from the Netherlands. Were they
originally ABELES? I suspect not. Perhaps they were
variants of Aaron? Perhaps some Bohemian and Moravian
ABELES were also *Aaron* before the Joseph II name
changes?

There is some confirmation of my snap amateur
judgement in this website, but we will no doubt hear
more >from our real name experts:

http://mfp.math.uni-rostock.de/forschung/erf_jose_.htm

...... "we come to great-great-grandson Adolf
HINRICHSEN. Of him, I have a photograph. Adolf married
Sophie nee AARON. Of the people with this very
beautiful and very Jewish surname, many have changed
into the very usual surnames AHRENS, AHRENDT, AHRNDT,
probably 90% of the people with these names originate
from Jewish families named AARON."
The standard reason [in Vienna] for choosing a name
starting with the same letter as the original was that
one could still use the monogrammed handkerchiefs,
table linen, and silverware.

Two well-known Viennese ABELES families, who were
business partners but were unrelated, changed their
names to ARENS [in 1892] and ANNINGER [in 1888].
The ARENS family came >from Reichenau, Bohemia and
the ANNINGER family are descended >from a David
ABELES >from Waltsch [Valec], Bohemia. Waltsch as well
as being famous as the origin of the ABELES/ANNINGER
family of Vienna, is probably more famous for its
fossils and the famous watermouse [Carl Linne 1758].

http://palaeo-electronica.org/2005_1/fejfar8/intro.htm

These ABELES name changes took place at the end of the
19th century. There were obviously many other early
ABELES name changes - see:

http://old.hrad.cz/president/Havel/holocaust/seznam1.html

where AREND and ANNINGER are listed as well as many
ABELES Czech holocaust victims.

NOw to return to the name ABELES and the use of the
name in phrases and jokes. In May 2004, Martin Tompa
of Seattle wrote to us about the phrase *Cafe Abeles*
[please search the Austria-Czech message archives]:

I replied at the time: So when Martin's father called
out "Wo spielen wir, im Cafe Abeles?" [where are we
playing ... in Cafe Abeles?] he was obviously
referring to the chaotic state the card game had
degenerated into. It would be interesting to know if
this was a phrase used by Viennese referring to any
chaotic conditions.

A few months ago I did some research on Viennese cafes
and I did indeed find a cafe in the Mariahilferstrasse
whose proprietors were called ABELES in the early
years of the 20th century. I walked along the street
to find it - but I think it had turned into dingy
digital watch emporium! Could this perhaps have been
the notorious *Tarock Den* where many Viennese Jews
congregated and which gave rise to the now "homeless
phrase"?

There is a 1927 Austrian film {Dir. Hans Steinhoff}
called "Familientag im Hause Prellstein" with the
alternative Title: Cafe Abeles. Although I visited the
Film Museum in Vienna, no one had seen the vintage
film or could tell me where the phrase occurred.

I live in hope that there will be a remake perhaps
entitled "Cafe Arend" or "Cafe Anninger" and we may
get the answer to Martin Tompa's original query - see:

http://tinyurl.com/d7tkn

Celia Male [U.K.]