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Re: Puzzling Yiddish from Yizkor Book #general

ITE <atefreebox-egen@...>
 

I am sorry but I'm sure your translation of "shtirnik" as an interferer or
meddler is mistaken. I guess you probably thought "shtirnik" comes >from
"shtern" which indeed means to interfere or meddle. But it actually comes
from "shtirn" which is the equivalent of and is related to the English to
steer. It was aptly translated here by native English-speaking genners as
log-driver (to drive the logs of timber).

Besides, in proper Yiddish, a person that interferes and meddles might be
called a "shterer" but never a "shtirnik".

As regards "telitse", it used to be a very common nickname in many, many
shtetlakh in the Pale of Settlement, and it invariably meant one and the
same thing: a heifer.

Hope this helps.
Ite Toybe Doktorski

Martin Davis <dawidowicz@...> wrote on Fri, 11 Nov 2011:
Susan Goldsmith's request for Yiddish nickname translations has produced all
sorts of interesting responses. Resorting to my distorted memories of spoken
Yiddish backed up by my Yiddish dictionary (Uriel Weinreich's standard
reference), I have come up with the following:
"Leizka the Gingi" was a girl/woman carrier of our Jewish ginger hair gene
(probably with the usual freckles!!!).
"Moshe the Stirnik" was an interferer or meddler in other people's business.
"Hirsh the Teletzer" is the only conundrum and does not seem to be correctly
transliterated. If it is 'Hirsh the Telerzer' he was a flatterer or toady or
if "Hirsh the Telytzer" he was a young cow!!
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Puzzling Yiddish from Yizkor Book #general

ITE <atefreebox-egen@...>
 

I am sorry but I'm sure your translation of "shtirnik" as an interferer or
meddler is mistaken. I guess you probably thought "shtirnik" comes >from
"shtern" which indeed means to interfere or meddle. But it actually comes
from "shtirn" which is the equivalent of and is related to the English to
steer. It was aptly translated here by native English-speaking genners as
log-driver (to drive the logs of timber).

Besides, in proper Yiddish, a person that interferes and meddles might be
called a "shterer" but never a "shtirnik".

As regards "telitse", it used to be a very common nickname in many, many
shtetlakh in the Pale of Settlement, and it invariably meant one and the
same thing: a heifer.

Hope this helps.
Ite Toybe Doktorski

Martin Davis <dawidowicz@...> wrote on Fri, 11 Nov 2011:
Susan Goldsmith's request for Yiddish nickname translations has produced all
sorts of interesting responses. Resorting to my distorted memories of spoken
Yiddish backed up by my Yiddish dictionary (Uriel Weinreich's standard
reference), I have come up with the following:
"Leizka the Gingi" was a girl/woman carrier of our Jewish ginger hair gene
(probably with the usual freckles!!!).
"Moshe the Stirnik" was an interferer or meddler in other people's business.
"Hirsh the Teletzer" is the only conundrum and does not seem to be correctly
transliterated. If it is 'Hirsh the Telerzer' he was a flatterer or toady or
if "Hirsh the Telytzer" he was a young cow!!
Re: Need translation of Yiddish word from Yizkor Book #general

ITE <atefreebox-egen@...>
 

"Gimzene' means suede-leather.

Hope this helps.
Ite Toybe Doktorski

Howard Orenstein <horenstein@...> wrote on Fri, 11 Nov 2011:

In the Yizkor Book, "Sefer Serock," appears the following sentence about
the Rebbe:
"He was always well dressed in a satin long coat, gimzene boots ...."
We're stumped by the word "gimzene" --- gimel-yud-mem-zayin-ayin-nun-ayin.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Need translation of Yiddish word from Yizkor Book #general

ITE <atefreebox-egen@...>
 

"Gimzene' means suede-leather.

Hope this helps.
Ite Toybe Doktorski

Howard Orenstein <horenstein@...> wrote on Fri, 11 Nov 2011:

In the Yizkor Book, "Sefer Serock," appears the following sentence about
the Rebbe:
"He was always well dressed in a satin long coat, gimzene boots ...."
We're stumped by the word "gimzene" --- gimel-yud-mem-zayin-ayin-nun-ayin.
Fold3 World War II Collection Free through November 20th #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Fold3.com, formerly Footnote.com, is offering free access to their WWII
collection through November 20th in recognition of Veteran's Day. You will
find records, documents, stories, and photos, plus you have the opportunity
to add your own.

Go to: http://go.fold3.com/wwii/?iid=1239
You may access Fold3's holocaust collection, also free at
http://go.fold3.com/holocaust/
You may have to register with your name and e-mail to access either of these
collections.

Jan Meisels Allen
IAJGS Vice President
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Fold3 World War II Collection Free through November 20th #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Fold3.com, formerly Footnote.com, is offering free access to their WWII
collection through November 20th in recognition of Veteran's Day. You will
find records, documents, stories, and photos, plus you have the opportunity
to add your own.

Go to: http://go.fold3.com/wwii/?iid=1239
You may access Fold3's holocaust collection, also free at
http://go.fold3.com/holocaust/
You may have to register with your name and e-mail to access either of these
collections.

Jan Meisels Allen
IAJGS Vice President
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
NEUMAN-HOROWITZ Family of Elizavetgrad #general

Linda Shefler
 

The stories about this family are unclear and there is some confusion, so
please bear with me!

My great grandmother's sister, Zlata (Nessie)GUREVITCH/HOROWITZ (probably
born in the 1870s) married a man named Israel NEUMAN. I believe they lived
in Elizavetgrad (now Kirovograd) and had the following children:
Elia (Eli) NEUMAN (born 1890), Grisha NEUMAN, Luba NEUMAN and Sheindle
NEUMAN. I believe Grisha, Luba and Sheindle were all born in the later
1890s to early 1900s.

Sheindle was named after her maternal grandmother, Sheindle (nee RUDISH
[or some variation of this spelling]) who was married to Avrum GUREVITCH.

It might be that the NEUMAN family moved to Odessa at one point, as story
has it that Elia escaped >from the Russian army, went home to Odessa, married
his childhood sweetheart Paula LEVINE (about 1910) and they both escaped to
Budapest, Hungry, where Paula died in 1920. Elia made it to America in the
1920s and lost all contact with the family he left behind. Grisha spent a
year in Budapest with Elia sometime after WWI, returned to Ukraine and was
never heard >from again. At least one of the sisters was married and had a
son named Moussa.

That is the extent of our knowledge of this family. I know it's not a lot
to go on, but I am a firm believer in genealogy miracles, so if any of this
information sounds vaguely familiar, please contact me privately! I do have
pictures of *all* of the key players in this puzzle if anyone want to see them.

Again, to summarize, I am looking for NEUMAN, HOROWITZ/GUREVITCH and RUDISH
from Elizavetgrad and possibly Odessa.
As always, many thanks for your time!

Linda Silverman Shefler
Hod ha Sharon
linda.shefler@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NEUMAN-HOROWITZ Family of Elizavetgrad #general

Linda Shefler
 

The stories about this family are unclear and there is some confusion, so
please bear with me!

My great grandmother's sister, Zlata (Nessie)GUREVITCH/HOROWITZ (probably
born in the 1870s) married a man named Israel NEUMAN. I believe they lived
in Elizavetgrad (now Kirovograd) and had the following children:
Elia (Eli) NEUMAN (born 1890), Grisha NEUMAN, Luba NEUMAN and Sheindle
NEUMAN. I believe Grisha, Luba and Sheindle were all born in the later
1890s to early 1900s.

Sheindle was named after her maternal grandmother, Sheindle (nee RUDISH
[or some variation of this spelling]) who was married to Avrum GUREVITCH.

It might be that the NEUMAN family moved to Odessa at one point, as story
has it that Elia escaped >from the Russian army, went home to Odessa, married
his childhood sweetheart Paula LEVINE (about 1910) and they both escaped to
Budapest, Hungry, where Paula died in 1920. Elia made it to America in the
1920s and lost all contact with the family he left behind. Grisha spent a
year in Budapest with Elia sometime after WWI, returned to Ukraine and was
never heard >from again. At least one of the sisters was married and had a
son named Moussa.

That is the extent of our knowledge of this family. I know it's not a lot
to go on, but I am a firm believer in genealogy miracles, so if any of this
information sounds vaguely familiar, please contact me privately! I do have
pictures of *all* of the key players in this puzzle if anyone want to see them.

Again, to summarize, I am looking for NEUMAN, HOROWITZ/GUREVITCH and RUDISH
from Elizavetgrad and possibly Odessa.
As always, many thanks for your time!

Linda Silverman Shefler
Hod ha Sharon
linda.shefler@...
Birth records Sabile for 1894 #latvia

Christine Usdin
 

I forgot to translate the 1894 birth records for Sabile, but here they are:

http://usdine.pagesperso-orange.fr/birthssabileninetyetc.html

Next will be the new marriage records for Sabile in 1907

Meanwhile, I translate the Dvinsk 1897 census (it will take a long,
long time, as there are thousands pages:

http://usdine.free.fr/dvinskcensusonealexandrenevski.html

Christine Usdin
Latvia SIG #Latvia Birth records Sabile for 1894 #latvia

Christine Usdin
 

I forgot to translate the 1894 birth records for Sabile, but here they are:

http://usdine.pagesperso-orange.fr/birthssabileninetyetc.html

Next will be the new marriage records for Sabile in 1907

Meanwhile, I translate the Dvinsk 1897 census (it will take a long,
long time, as there are thousands pages:

http://usdine.free.fr/dvinskcensusonealexandrenevski.html

Christine Usdin
Birth records. Rezekne. 1885 #latvia

Christine Usdin
 

Latvia SIG #Latvia Birth records. Rezekne. 1885 #latvia

Christine Usdin
 

Re: Paris cemetery inquiries #france

Paul King
 

Nicolas,

I will be in Paris in another 24 hrs. What are the telephone numbers of each
cemetery? I can only ask if there are SCHEUER family members interred at the
cemetery. I have no first names, although I have an extensive list of
Scheuers in France, some of whom are in Paris, but I have no idea where any
of them are buried. Who do I speak to? is it enough to ask: "Est-ce qu'il y a
des gens au nom famille Scheuer enterres dans votre cimetiere?"

Paul King
-----------------------------------------------------

FRENCHSIG Digest for Friday, November 11, 2011.

Subject: Paris cemeteries
From: trokiner@...
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:48:44 +0100
X-Message-Number: 1

Dear all,

I will soon visit my family in Bagneux and Pantin cemeteries in Paris.
Shall
you need a picture of a tombstone, please write me.

Both cemeteries can search a name for you if you call them, though I am
not
sure they speak English. Also, it might be better to write them if your
search is too wide and the surname too common.

Regards
Nicolas Trokiner
Paris, France
French SIG #France Re: Paris cemetery inquiries #france

Paul King
 

Nicolas,

I will be in Paris in another 24 hrs. What are the telephone numbers of each
cemetery? I can only ask if there are SCHEUER family members interred at the
cemetery. I have no first names, although I have an extensive list of
Scheuers in France, some of whom are in Paris, but I have no idea where any
of them are buried. Who do I speak to? is it enough to ask: "Est-ce qu'il y a
des gens au nom famille Scheuer enterres dans votre cimetiere?"

Paul King
-----------------------------------------------------

FRENCHSIG Digest for Friday, November 11, 2011.

Subject: Paris cemeteries
From: trokiner@...
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:48:44 +0100
X-Message-Number: 1

Dear all,

I will soon visit my family in Bagneux and Pantin cemeteries in Paris.
Shall
you need a picture of a tombstone, please write me.

Both cemeteries can search a name for you if you call them, though I am
not
sure they speak English. Also, it might be better to write them if your
search is too wide and the surname too common.

Regards
Nicolas Trokiner
Paris, France
Re: WWI Genealogical help required #unitedkingdom

j.clifford@...
 

What is political about burying Jewish fallen in Jewish graves? What is the
reason that the CWGC has refused this now when other cases have been
accepted in the past - are you suggesting that this is political/policy
issue? To me this is a genealogical wrong that needs putting right.
Janet Clifford
MODERATOR'S NOTE: I suspect that we are all in agreement on this issue as far
as a wrong needing to be corrected. The request here is for validation of
information >from a respected source. If it is policy or political decision that needs
to be addressed also but not in this forum.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Shapiro" <m.shapiro@...>
To: "JCR-UK SIG" <jcr-uk@...>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 9:14 AM
Subject: [jcr-uk] WWI Genealogical help required



I have just received this message >from Martin Sugarman the Archivist of AJEX
(Associtaion of Jewish Ex-Serviceman & Women) for help. Can anybody on this
list help identify the Jewish parentage of those listed below.

Message >from Marin Sugarman.

<In my struggles on behalf of AJEX to persuade the Commonwealth War Graves
Commission (CWGC) to change war grave headstones with crosses, to Stars <of
David, I have had some articles on the subject published in your journal,
which have been a great help to us in raising the profile of this crucial
matter.

<But I recently had a blow delivered re the soldiers below, who we know are
Jewish >from Jewish Chronicle insertions discovered by the amazing work of
<Harold Pollins, but have been refused by the CWGC under the heading of
"insufficiemt evidence" - even though many similar cases have been accepted
by <them in the past.

<Can you please ask your members urgently to look into these details for me
to find more evidence such as parents marriage certificates, their army
records <at TNA if they survive, OR even if they are related to them and can
prove Jewish descent, etc.

<I unashamedly ask this because time for me is at a premium as Archvist of
the AJEX Museum and still working full time, and trying to finish a third
book.

<1. 13052 Pte H. or Zeph Orman / aka Normand - 4th Middx. - kia 14/10/14 son
of Simon Orman, Cross Keys Monmouthshire - named in JC 23/10/14 p. 20, also
<13/11/14 p. 14 and 18/12/14 p. 19 - later lived in Leeds, Keplar Terrace
with his sister. His brother Reuben Orman is listed on Swansea Synagogue
memorial <also killed.

Strikes me as a political/policy issue now, rather than strictly a
genealogical one.


Regards
Marcus Shapiro

********


JCR-UK is a joint project of JewishGen and the
Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain
****
This group (jcr-uk@...) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

To post a message to this list use jcr-uk@...

You are currently subscribed to jcr-uk as: [j.clifford@...]
To change the format of our mailings, to stop/resume delivery (vacation),
or to unsubscribe, please go to http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: WWI Genealogical help required #unitedkingdom

j.clifford@...
 

What is political about burying Jewish fallen in Jewish graves? What is the
reason that the CWGC has refused this now when other cases have been
accepted in the past - are you suggesting that this is political/policy
issue? To me this is a genealogical wrong that needs putting right.
Janet Clifford
MODERATOR'S NOTE: I suspect that we are all in agreement on this issue as far
as a wrong needing to be corrected. The request here is for validation of
information >from a respected source. If it is policy or political decision that needs
to be addressed also but not in this forum.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Shapiro" <m.shapiro@...>
To: "JCR-UK SIG" <jcr-uk@...>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 9:14 AM
Subject: [jcr-uk] WWI Genealogical help required



I have just received this message >from Martin Sugarman the Archivist of AJEX
(Associtaion of Jewish Ex-Serviceman & Women) for help. Can anybody on this
list help identify the Jewish parentage of those listed below.

Message >from Marin Sugarman.

<In my struggles on behalf of AJEX to persuade the Commonwealth War Graves
Commission (CWGC) to change war grave headstones with crosses, to Stars <of
David, I have had some articles on the subject published in your journal,
which have been a great help to us in raising the profile of this crucial
matter.

<But I recently had a blow delivered re the soldiers below, who we know are
Jewish >from Jewish Chronicle insertions discovered by the amazing work of
<Harold Pollins, but have been refused by the CWGC under the heading of
"insufficiemt evidence" - even though many similar cases have been accepted
by <them in the past.

<Can you please ask your members urgently to look into these details for me
to find more evidence such as parents marriage certificates, their army
records <at TNA if they survive, OR even if they are related to them and can
prove Jewish descent, etc.

<I unashamedly ask this because time for me is at a premium as Archvist of
the AJEX Museum and still working full time, and trying to finish a third
book.

<1. 13052 Pte H. or Zeph Orman / aka Normand - 4th Middx. - kia 14/10/14 son
of Simon Orman, Cross Keys Monmouthshire - named in JC 23/10/14 p. 20, also
<13/11/14 p. 14 and 18/12/14 p. 19 - later lived in Leeds, Keplar Terrace
with his sister. His brother Reuben Orman is listed on Swansea Synagogue
memorial <also killed.

Strikes me as a political/policy issue now, rather than strictly a
genealogical one.


Regards
Marcus Shapiro

********


JCR-UK is a joint project of JewishGen and the
Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain
****
This group (jcr-uk@...) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

To post a message to this list use jcr-uk@...

You are currently subscribed to jcr-uk as: [j.clifford@...]
To change the format of our mailings, to stop/resume delivery (vacation),
or to unsubscribe, please go to http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager
Need Help With Proper Entry of Location of Events/Sources in Tree Programs #poland

Eden Joachim <esjoachim@...>
 

Fellow Genealogists and Mavens,

My research is focused on Poland (Congress and the former Galicia) and
Lithuania.

I recently received 20+ documents for events which occurred in the town
of Makow Mazowiecki, Mazowiekie Province, Poland (today). The events
occurred in the late 19th and early 20th centuries when the town was
in Makow District, Warsaw Province, Lomza Gubernia, Russian Empire.
Between WWI and WWII, the town was in Warsaw Gubernia, Poland.

My questions are:

1. What is the proper / acceptable way to enter the geographic
information in my family tree program? I use My Heritage, but the
answer is applicable to any program.

2. Is there a source somewhere for finding the District and Province
names for towns in Eastern Europe for various time frames in history?
What I’m looking for is a list of all towns in a given district in a
given Gubernia in one place, rather than having to look at the JewishGen
Communities Database (JGCD) each time I need the info on a new town.
I am aware of the value of the JGCD, which I use often. Please limit
your replies to additional sources.

I've found sources for the United States for towns/counties/states.

Hours spent combing the internet has yielded only the correct format for
entry of Citations. I wrote to Dick Eastman thinking his readership
would have the answers, but he referred me to: "the experts can be found at
http://www.avotaynu.com/". I submitted my questions to them on July 26,
2011, hoping my message would appear in the Mailbox of the journal
Avotaynu or elicit a response >from the publishers.

Thanks for any assistance you can offer,
Eden Joachim
Pomona, NY
esjoachim@...
JRI Poland #Poland Need Help With Proper Entry of Location of Events/Sources in Tree Programs #poland

Eden Joachim <esjoachim@...>
 

Fellow Genealogists and Mavens,

My research is focused on Poland (Congress and the former Galicia) and
Lithuania.

I recently received 20+ documents for events which occurred in the town
of Makow Mazowiecki, Mazowiekie Province, Poland (today). The events
occurred in the late 19th and early 20th centuries when the town was
in Makow District, Warsaw Province, Lomza Gubernia, Russian Empire.
Between WWI and WWII, the town was in Warsaw Gubernia, Poland.

My questions are:

1. What is the proper / acceptable way to enter the geographic
information in my family tree program? I use My Heritage, but the
answer is applicable to any program.

2. Is there a source somewhere for finding the District and Province
names for towns in Eastern Europe for various time frames in history?
What I’m looking for is a list of all towns in a given district in a
given Gubernia in one place, rather than having to look at the JewishGen
Communities Database (JGCD) each time I need the info on a new town.
I am aware of the value of the JGCD, which I use often. Please limit
your replies to additional sources.

I've found sources for the United States for towns/counties/states.

Hours spent combing the internet has yielded only the correct format for
entry of Citations. I wrote to Dick Eastman thinking his readership
would have the answers, but he referred me to: "the experts can be found at
http://www.avotaynu.com/". I submitted my questions to them on July 26,
2011, hoping my message would appear in the Mailbox of the journal
Avotaynu or elicit a response >from the publishers.

Thanks for any assistance you can offer,
Eden Joachim
Pomona, NY
esjoachim@...
Torun #poland

elliot.gilbert@...
 

Dear Colleagues,

I am seeking assistance regarding my paternal great-grandparents,
Marks or Max Gilbert (b 1877) and Sarah Kibbell (b 1880) and
supposedly married in Torun in May 1900. (Max son of Isaac and
Rebeccah and Sarah d. of Jacob and Leah).

I have contacted the Polish archives in Torun and there is no record
of their marriage. The bride was apparently born in Lodz ('Lodge' on
her British alien registration papers) but there is also no record of
her birth. Given the absence of a marriage record in Torun, I wondered
whether the first names were correct but the surname had changed.
However, according to the Torun archives, there are no marriage records
with their first names (and any other surname) on the supposed marriage day.

I'd appreciate any assistance with the above and also to know (i)
whether there are any archives >from Torun in Germany (since it was
formerly part of Prussia) and (ii) how much damage was inflicted on
the archives as a result of WWII (i.e. are the records 'lost').

Dr. Elliot Gilbert
Sydney, Australia (ex - East London, United Kingdom)
JRI Poland #Poland Torun #poland

elliot.gilbert@...
 

Dear Colleagues,

I am seeking assistance regarding my paternal great-grandparents,
Marks or Max Gilbert (b 1877) and Sarah Kibbell (b 1880) and
supposedly married in Torun in May 1900. (Max son of Isaac and
Rebeccah and Sarah d. of Jacob and Leah).

I have contacted the Polish archives in Torun and there is no record
of their marriage. The bride was apparently born in Lodz ('Lodge' on
her British alien registration papers) but there is also no record of
her birth. Given the absence of a marriage record in Torun, I wondered
whether the first names were correct but the surname had changed.
However, according to the Torun archives, there are no marriage records
with their first names (and any other surname) on the supposed marriage day.

I'd appreciate any assistance with the above and also to know (i)
whether there are any archives >from Torun in Germany (since it was
formerly part of Prussia) and (ii) how much damage was inflicted on
the archives as a result of WWII (i.e. are the records 'lost').

Dr. Elliot Gilbert
Sydney, Australia (ex - East London, United Kingdom)
182661 - 182680 of 669751