Date   

Photographs of Tarnow Ghetto residents #general

Howard Fink <HowGen@...>
 

In March, 1942 the Vienna Museum of Natural History took a series
of "mug shots" of several hundred residents of the Tarnow ghetto,
shortly before these people were deported (mainly to Auschwitz).
For most individuals there are three facial photographs: front,
slightly turned, and side profiles. Many of the people photographed
do *not* appear in ITS records, but fortunately the photographs were
documented with information that will be of interest to family
researchers:

surname
given name
maiden name (of married women)
birth date
birth town
occupation
level of education
house address

This photograph collection is now held by the Photo Archives at
the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM) in Washington.
If you find family members in the index >from this data collection,
you may ask for an copy of your relatives' photographs by mailing
a request to the Photo Archives at the USHMM. You should reference
the person's name and WSNO number >from the relevant record(s).
The request must be signed and include the statement that the
photograph(s) will not be used for any commercial purpose.
The USHMM has graciously offered that these digital copies will
be made available at no charge.

My thanks to Peter Lande for making me aware of this data and
allowing me to index it, and also to Michael Tobias for making sure
that researchers will be notified of search results in this data
collection whether they are searching the JewishGen Holocaust
Database, or the Jewish Records Indexing - Poland database:
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Holocaust >,
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland >.

Links to a list of surnames of the people in this collection,
as well as an order form (not required) to use with the USHMM
can be found at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/jri-ushmm_tarnow_ghetto.htm

Howard Fink
Tarnow Archives Coordinator
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Photographs of Tarnow Ghetto residents #general

Howard Fink <HowGen@...>
 

In March, 1942 the Vienna Museum of Natural History took a series
of "mug shots" of several hundred residents of the Tarnow ghetto,
shortly before these people were deported (mainly to Auschwitz).
For most individuals there are three facial photographs: front,
slightly turned, and side profiles. Many of the people photographed
do *not* appear in ITS records, but fortunately the photographs were
documented with information that will be of interest to family
researchers:

surname
given name
maiden name (of married women)
birth date
birth town
occupation
level of education
house address

This photograph collection is now held by the Photo Archives at
the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM) in Washington.
If you find family members in the index >from this data collection,
you may ask for an copy of your relatives' photographs by mailing
a request to the Photo Archives at the USHMM. You should reference
the person's name and WSNO number >from the relevant record(s).
The request must be signed and include the statement that the
photograph(s) will not be used for any commercial purpose.
The USHMM has graciously offered that these digital copies will
be made available at no charge.

My thanks to Peter Lande for making me aware of this data and
allowing me to index it, and also to Michael Tobias for making sure
that researchers will be notified of search results in this data
collection whether they are searching the JewishGen Holocaust
Database, or the Jewish Records Indexing - Poland database:
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Holocaust >,
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland >.

Links to a list of surnames of the people in this collection,
as well as an order form (not required) to use with the USHMM
can be found at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/jri-ushmm_tarnow_ghetto.htm

Howard Fink
Tarnow Archives Coordinator
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland


Re: Birth Certificate for birth at sea #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

cyndi@... and SarinaRoffe@...

asked about citizenship and birth certificates for persons born at sea.

I found this section of the immigration and naturalization act that seems to
cover this situation

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

from 1878 to 1934 the law was all children who were born outside the
limits and jurisdiction of the US would be a citizen if their fathers
were citizens at the time of their birth. If the father never resided
in the US, then citizenship would not descend to the child.

So, under this law these children born at sea were not citizens which
explains why SarinaRoffe@... found the naturalization for her
ancestor.

In the other case of cyndi@... since children were often born
at home, and births were not always recorded promptly, those parents
may have just recorded the birth themselves, giving the birthplace as
Maryland. Possible also that this ancestor never needed a birth
certificate until years later. If he applied for a delayed certificate,
and his parents had later become citizens, he could have become a
citizen through that act, so no one would question his statement of
where exactly he was born. Perhaps there actually are naturalization
documents for this ancestor, if he realized at some time that he was not
a citizen.

Hope this helps,
Lisa Lepore
llepore@...
Mendon, MA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Birth Certificate for birth at sea #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

cyndi@... and SarinaRoffe@...

asked about citizenship and birth certificates for persons born at sea.

I found this section of the immigration and naturalization act that seems to
cover this situation

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

from 1878 to 1934 the law was all children who were born outside the
limits and jurisdiction of the US would be a citizen if their fathers
were citizens at the time of their birth. If the father never resided
in the US, then citizenship would not descend to the child.

So, under this law these children born at sea were not citizens which
explains why SarinaRoffe@... found the naturalization for her
ancestor.

In the other case of cyndi@... since children were often born
at home, and births were not always recorded promptly, those parents
may have just recorded the birth themselves, giving the birthplace as
Maryland. Possible also that this ancestor never needed a birth
certificate until years later. If he applied for a delayed certificate,
and his parents had later become citizens, he could have become a
citizen through that act, so no one would question his statement of
where exactly he was born. Perhaps there actually are naturalization
documents for this ancestor, if he realized at some time that he was not
a citizen.

Hope this helps,
Lisa Lepore
llepore@...
Mendon, MA


Hartbeesfontein and Jakkalsfontein #southafrica

Saul Issroff
 

Tessa Posen, a researcher for the country communities Project of
Friends of Beth Hatefusoth is looking for information
concerning the Jewish communities in Hartbeesfontein (which includes
Jakkalsfontein).

Below is a list of names of people who apparently lived in Hartbeesfontein
She has little information about them.

Owsianik
Schwartz
Bonner
Feinblum
Levi
Levin
Schapow
Berman
Heiman
Myerson
Jacobs
Lemmer
Fisher

She would be most grateful for any background information on
these people and any others who lived in Hartbeesfontein.

Please send information privately to <museum@...> (not to
the discussion group).

BTW they are very impressed with the recent responses they received
from SA SIG!
Saul Issroff


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Hartbeesfontein and Jakkalsfontein #southafrica

Saul Issroff
 

Tessa Posen, a researcher for the country communities Project of
Friends of Beth Hatefusoth is looking for information
concerning the Jewish communities in Hartbeesfontein (which includes
Jakkalsfontein).

Below is a list of names of people who apparently lived in Hartbeesfontein
She has little information about them.

Owsianik
Schwartz
Bonner
Feinblum
Levi
Levin
Schapow
Berman
Heiman
Myerson
Jacobs
Lemmer
Fisher

She would be most grateful for any background information on
these people and any others who lived in Hartbeesfontein.

Please send information privately to <museum@...> (not to
the discussion group).

BTW they are very impressed with the recent responses they received
from SA SIG!
Saul Issroff


Re: Finding Cities of Origin #general

Sherri Bobish
 

I sent this message to Stephen's email, but I received a message
back that he doesn't allow incoming messages.

Stephen,

Unfortunately passenger manifests >from that time period are unlikely
to answer your questions.

Here are a few ideas that have worked for me in finding the name of
the town of birth for immigrant ancestors.

U.S. marriage certs for any ancestor not born here.

U.S. birth certs for children of the original immigants.

U.S. death cert for any ancestor not born here. However, death cert
info is one of the most unreliable data sources due to people
answering questions at a time of great stress, and it being second-
hand data.

Military records, i.e. WWI draft cards for any ancestor not born here.

If any original immigrant was born 1870 or later and was living in the
mid-1903's you can obtain their SS5 (original Social Security
application) which asked for town of birth.

If you know the cemetery you can call the cem office and ask if they
are with a landsmanshaftn (burial society.) Many of these societies
are shtetl-based. Note that people did belong to and were buried with
societies >from other towns due to many variable reasons, so although
this could be a clue more research would be required to prove.

I have seen wills (probate files) where people left something to a
relative back in Poland, etc. For obvious reasons I have only seen
this in wills probated prior to circa 1940.

If anyone was naturalized post-1906 (when the process was federalized
and standardized) the naturalization file will list town of birth. It
is unlikely that a pre-1906 nat will list more than country name, but
it did vary court-to-court and is worth obtaining.

Regards,

Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ

MODERATOR NOTE: We are posting this reply because it includes suggestions
of general interest. We do *not* post personal replies containing specific
information of interest only to the original poster. If your e-mail is set
to reject mail >from unknown persons, you will have no way to receive such
replies. Please keep this in mind when you post to the JewishGen Discussion
Group. You may want to change your settings temporarily after your post, or
set up a separate e-mail address for use on JewishGen lists.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Finding Cities of Origin #general

Sherri Bobish
 

I sent this message to Stephen's email, but I received a message
back that he doesn't allow incoming messages.

Stephen,

Unfortunately passenger manifests >from that time period are unlikely
to answer your questions.

Here are a few ideas that have worked for me in finding the name of
the town of birth for immigrant ancestors.

U.S. marriage certs for any ancestor not born here.

U.S. birth certs for children of the original immigants.

U.S. death cert for any ancestor not born here. However, death cert
info is one of the most unreliable data sources due to people
answering questions at a time of great stress, and it being second-
hand data.

Military records, i.e. WWI draft cards for any ancestor not born here.

If any original immigrant was born 1870 or later and was living in the
mid-1903's you can obtain their SS5 (original Social Security
application) which asked for town of birth.

If you know the cemetery you can call the cem office and ask if they
are with a landsmanshaftn (burial society.) Many of these societies
are shtetl-based. Note that people did belong to and were buried with
societies >from other towns due to many variable reasons, so although
this could be a clue more research would be required to prove.

I have seen wills (probate files) where people left something to a
relative back in Poland, etc. For obvious reasons I have only seen
this in wills probated prior to circa 1940.

If anyone was naturalized post-1906 (when the process was federalized
and standardized) the naturalization file will list town of birth. It
is unlikely that a pre-1906 nat will list more than country name, but
it did vary court-to-court and is worth obtaining.

Regards,

Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ

MODERATOR NOTE: We are posting this reply because it includes suggestions
of general interest. We do *not* post personal replies containing specific
information of interest only to the original poster. If your e-mail is set
to reject mail >from unknown persons, you will have no way to receive such
replies. Please keep this in mind when you post to the JewishGen Discussion
Group. You may want to change your settings temporarily after your post, or
set up a separate e-mail address for use on JewishGen lists.


the Ohr LaShomayim (Rabbi Meir Rotenberg of Apt) #general

Sharon Galkin <sharongalkin@...>
 

I am a descendant of the Ohr LaShomayim (Rabbi Meir Rotenberg of Apt).
I was recently told (by an unreliable source) that the Ohr LaShomayim
was descended >from the Sh'loh (Rabbi Yeshaya Hurwitz). If anyone can
tell me if this is accurate (and supply details) or not I'd be most
appreciative.

Sharon Galkin

MODERATOR NOTE: You may also want to send this query to JewishGen's
Rabbinic Genealogy SIG mailing list, where it will reach many
researchers very knowledgeable in this subject. See
http://www.jewishgen.org/Rabbinic/
for more information.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen the Ohr LaShomayim (Rabbi Meir Rotenberg of Apt) #general

Sharon Galkin <sharongalkin@...>
 

I am a descendant of the Ohr LaShomayim (Rabbi Meir Rotenberg of Apt).
I was recently told (by an unreliable source) that the Ohr LaShomayim
was descended >from the Sh'loh (Rabbi Yeshaya Hurwitz). If anyone can
tell me if this is accurate (and supply details) or not I'd be most
appreciative.

Sharon Galkin

MODERATOR NOTE: You may also want to send this query to JewishGen's
Rabbinic Genealogy SIG mailing list, where it will reach many
researchers very knowledgeable in this subject. See
http://www.jewishgen.org/Rabbinic/
for more information.


Re: Ritual Wife registered as unmarried, Lvov about 1910 #general

Barbara Ellman
 

Michael Diamant questioned:

My question is, What is a ritual wife and does that title infer
illegitimacy on her children?

The union of the mother and father as well as the birth of their
children took place in Lvov, c1910. Would I be able to obtain a
marriage certificate >from Lvov archives?
Ritual Wife indicates that there was no civil union between the
child's parents. They were married by the rabbi, but this marriage is
not recognized by the government. Therefore, all children born prior
to a Civil marriage are illegitimate.

There is no marriage certificate, a civil document, to be obtained.

There are lengthy discussions on this topic in the discussion group archive.

Barbara Ellman
Secaucus, NJ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ritual Wife registered as unmarried, Lvov about 1910 #general

Barbara Ellman
 

Michael Diamant questioned:

My question is, What is a ritual wife and does that title infer
illegitimacy on her children?

The union of the mother and father as well as the birth of their
children took place in Lvov, c1910. Would I be able to obtain a
marriage certificate >from Lvov archives?
Ritual Wife indicates that there was no civil union between the
child's parents. They were married by the rabbi, but this marriage is
not recognized by the government. Therefore, all children born prior
to a Civil marriage are illegitimate.

There is no marriage certificate, a civil document, to be obtained.

There are lengthy discussions on this topic in the discussion group archive.

Barbara Ellman
Secaucus, NJ


Re: Ritual Wife registered as unmarried, Lvov about 1910 #general

Pamela Weisberger
 

MIchael Diamant asks:

"I recently received a Polish birth certificate (translated into
English) which listed the individual as "illegitimate". The space for
the father was left blank. However, the mother's description listed
her as unmarried and the "ritual wife of the known father". My
question is, What is a ritual wife and does that title infer
illegitimacy on her children? The union of the mother and father as
well as the birth of their children took place in Lvov, c1910. Would
I be able to obtain a marriage certificate >from Lvov archives?"

As you may have read before on this list -- and as Mark Halpern
(JRI-Poland) has written extensively about -- many 19th and 20th
century Galician Jews were never married in a civil ceremony, causing
a great deal of confusion for their 21st century genealogist-relatives
who are trying to make sense of vital records and search indexes,
especially when the word "illegitimate" appears.

"Ritual wife," means that a woman and her husband had a religious
ceremony only. In the eyes of the Jewish community they were married,
but in the eyes of the government they were not.

I'm sure the couple had a nice ketubah, now lost to history, proving
that they were man and wife in the contractual and religious sense,
but to the state who registered births, the children were illegitimate
until such time as the parents decided to have a civil marriage. Such
a "delayed marriage" might never have happened, or it might have
happened many years later when the family wanted to obtain passports
or travel papers to emigrate and it would be more convenient to have
the wife and children carry the father/husband's name. Otherwise many
of the children took their mother's name, unless -- in certain special
cases -- the father showed up at the governmental offices and claimed
paternity even without the benefit of a legal marriage. With large
Galician families you'll see a variety of surnames or missing surnames
for the different children. Total confusion.

It is always worth checking online indexes for the couple's names even
if the year seems wrong to you. If the ages of the people are older,
very often it reflects one of these delayed marriages for a couple
already "ritually" married, versus a second marriage for widows or
widowers.

You also see many middle aged couples in Vienna (>from Galicia and on
their way to America) getting married, with their children standing by
in the records held by the IKG (Israelitische Kultusgemeinde Wien) --
the Jewish community office in Vienna, so you should also check this
database which has indexes for Jewish records held in Vienna:
http://www.genteam.at. You might be surprised to find relatives there
even if Vienna has never come up in family stories.

No marriage record, however, will be available >from the Polish or
Ukrainian archives if it does not appear either in online indexes or
if there is not a reflection in the birth documents that the couple
ever had a civil marriage. Any records that a rabbi might have kept
for a religious ceremony would not have found its way to the
governmental offices, and, eventually, the archives. (Which is not to
say that every now and then a surprising record book is discovered at
an archive.)

Due to the destruction of most of the Jewish population, synagogues
and Jewish community offices in the Holocaust, most of those record
books did not survive. Every now and then you hear of someone in a
shtetl who "rescued" this type of book, or set of records documenting
Jewish life, and someone touring a shtetl happens upon them, but those
instances are the exception, not the rule.

Pamela Weisberger
President, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ritual Wife registered as unmarried, Lvov about 1910 #general

Pamela Weisberger
 

MIchael Diamant asks:

"I recently received a Polish birth certificate (translated into
English) which listed the individual as "illegitimate". The space for
the father was left blank. However, the mother's description listed
her as unmarried and the "ritual wife of the known father". My
question is, What is a ritual wife and does that title infer
illegitimacy on her children? The union of the mother and father as
well as the birth of their children took place in Lvov, c1910. Would
I be able to obtain a marriage certificate >from Lvov archives?"

As you may have read before on this list -- and as Mark Halpern
(JRI-Poland) has written extensively about -- many 19th and 20th
century Galician Jews were never married in a civil ceremony, causing
a great deal of confusion for their 21st century genealogist-relatives
who are trying to make sense of vital records and search indexes,
especially when the word "illegitimate" appears.

"Ritual wife," means that a woman and her husband had a religious
ceremony only. In the eyes of the Jewish community they were married,
but in the eyes of the government they were not.

I'm sure the couple had a nice ketubah, now lost to history, proving
that they were man and wife in the contractual and religious sense,
but to the state who registered births, the children were illegitimate
until such time as the parents decided to have a civil marriage. Such
a "delayed marriage" might never have happened, or it might have
happened many years later when the family wanted to obtain passports
or travel papers to emigrate and it would be more convenient to have
the wife and children carry the father/husband's name. Otherwise many
of the children took their mother's name, unless -- in certain special
cases -- the father showed up at the governmental offices and claimed
paternity even without the benefit of a legal marriage. With large
Galician families you'll see a variety of surnames or missing surnames
for the different children. Total confusion.

It is always worth checking online indexes for the couple's names even
if the year seems wrong to you. If the ages of the people are older,
very often it reflects one of these delayed marriages for a couple
already "ritually" married, versus a second marriage for widows or
widowers.

You also see many middle aged couples in Vienna (>from Galicia and on
their way to America) getting married, with their children standing by
in the records held by the IKG (Israelitische Kultusgemeinde Wien) --
the Jewish community office in Vienna, so you should also check this
database which has indexes for Jewish records held in Vienna:
http://www.genteam.at. You might be surprised to find relatives there
even if Vienna has never come up in family stories.

No marriage record, however, will be available >from the Polish or
Ukrainian archives if it does not appear either in online indexes or
if there is not a reflection in the birth documents that the couple
ever had a civil marriage. Any records that a rabbi might have kept
for a religious ceremony would not have found its way to the
governmental offices, and, eventually, the archives. (Which is not to
say that every now and then a surprising record book is discovered at
an archive.)

Due to the destruction of most of the Jewish population, synagogues
and Jewish community offices in the Holocaust, most of those record
books did not survive. Every now and then you hear of someone in a
shtetl who "rescued" this type of book, or set of records documenting
Jewish life, and someone touring a shtetl happens upon them, but those
instances are the exception, not the rule.

Pamela Weisberger
President, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@...


A_place_called_Blagoslowienstwo_in_the_district_of_Sakiai,_Lithuania #general

Howard Coupland <how.jacque@...>
 

I found out recently that my gg-grandfather lived in a place called
Blagoslowienstwo in the district of Sakiai / Wladyslavow / Suwalki Gubernia
/ Lithuania.
I have documentation dated 1830 but cannot find this place anywhere online.
I would be interested to know if anyone has ever heard of it and has the
name changed ?

Regards

Howard Coupland
Leeds, England

RESEARCHING:-
CAPLAN (Vilnius, Lithuania),DREIER (Durban & Johannesburg, South
Africa),FINKIELSZTEJN (Marijampole, Lithuania) ,GRYNWALD (Marijampole &
Liudvinavas, Lithuania),KLEPPER / CLAPER (Iasi, Romania),LEIBOVICI
(Iasi, Romania),PLOTKIN (Stary Bykhov, Mogilev gubernia),PRENSKY (Šakiai,
Lithuania),RENTZLER (Roman,Romania and Manchester, England),SMOLENSKI
(Roman,Romania)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen A_place_called_Blagoslowienstwo_in_the_district_of_Sakiai,_Lithuania #general

Howard Coupland <how.jacque@...>
 

I found out recently that my gg-grandfather lived in a place called
Blagoslowienstwo in the district of Sakiai / Wladyslavow / Suwalki Gubernia
/ Lithuania.
I have documentation dated 1830 but cannot find this place anywhere online.
I would be interested to know if anyone has ever heard of it and has the
name changed ?

Regards

Howard Coupland
Leeds, England

RESEARCHING:-
CAPLAN (Vilnius, Lithuania),DREIER (Durban & Johannesburg, South
Africa),FINKIELSZTEJN (Marijampole, Lithuania) ,GRYNWALD (Marijampole &
Liudvinavas, Lithuania),KLEPPER / CLAPER (Iasi, Romania),LEIBOVICI
(Iasi, Romania),PLOTKIN (Stary Bykhov, Mogilev gubernia),PRENSKY (Šakiai,
Lithuania),RENTZLER (Roman,Romania and Manchester, England),SMOLENSKI
(Roman,Romania)


Re: Finding Cities of Origin #general

montereybayrob@...
 

Stephen,

Your information is so sparse--it is unlikely that this group will be
able to give you direct information.

Instead, start with the basics. If they arrived in the 1880s, you
should look at census records to see if they became citizens. If so,
you can seek out citizenship records. Town of origin may be listed.
Second, you can try the many sources of passenger lists (like Hamburg)
or the Germans to America books. Third, investigate if any of your
ancestors served in the military. Those records are accessible.

Good luck,
Rob Weisskirch
Marina, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Finding Cities of Origin #general

montereybayrob@...
 

Stephen,

Your information is so sparse--it is unlikely that this group will be
able to give you direct information.

Instead, start with the basics. If they arrived in the 1880s, you
should look at census records to see if they became citizens. If so,
you can seek out citizenship records. Town of origin may be listed.
Second, you can try the many sources of passenger lists (like Hamburg)
or the Germans to America books. Third, investigate if any of your
ancestors served in the military. Those records are accessible.

Good luck,
Rob Weisskirch
Marina, CA


Re: Finding Cities of Origin #general

Linda Shefler
 

Stephen Silberman asked how to find cities of origins for his ancestors <<
My ancestors came to the US in the 1880s. In three of the four cases I have
a country of origin but no idea of the city! >>. I responded to Stephen
privately, but assume my experiences might prove helpful to others with the
same question, so here is my response:

My family starting arriving in the US in the 1850s and my situation was the
same as yours, I had country names (which frequently changed with each new
census), but no clue about towns. Eventually I managed to locate all of the
places of birth for my gg grandparents, but it required definite
persistence!

I would suggest an expanded version of the obvious; check death
certificates, but also check the records >from the funeral home as well as
the cemetery. Frequently I found two of those three records would list
place of birth 'unknown', but the third source would actually list a place.
Many times it wasn't the record for the specific individual which had the
information, but the record for either a child or a sibling. Of course
there is no guarantee that siblings were born in the same place, but it's
definitely a place to start! My gg grandparents had 7 children and it was
the 7th death certificate that I located that finally listed the place of
birth for my gg grandmother, all the others indicated 'unknown'. It can be
that the records for your direct ancestor won't have the information, that's
why it's important to go wide in your research. Someone in the family knew
the information and included it somewhere!

I also found places of birth for two gg grandfathers on their passport
applications. Both of them acquired passports decades before they were
mandatory (lucky for me) and again, some of the applications just listed a
country, while other applications were more specific and indicated towns.
The passport applications for these two ancestors were found on Ancestry.

Linda Silverman Shefler

--
From: silberman@...
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:57:37 +0000 (GMT+00:00)

What I am searching is as follows:

Abramson Russia
Silberman Romania
Collins Russia

I've been unable to locate any immigration records for these folk and no
city or area which sort of dead ends my search. Does anyone have a clue
as to how I might proceed?

Thanks,

Stephen Silberman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Finding Cities of Origin #general

Linda Shefler
 

Stephen Silberman asked how to find cities of origins for his ancestors <<
My ancestors came to the US in the 1880s. In three of the four cases I have
a country of origin but no idea of the city! >>. I responded to Stephen
privately, but assume my experiences might prove helpful to others with the
same question, so here is my response:

My family starting arriving in the US in the 1850s and my situation was the
same as yours, I had country names (which frequently changed with each new
census), but no clue about towns. Eventually I managed to locate all of the
places of birth for my gg grandparents, but it required definite
persistence!

I would suggest an expanded version of the obvious; check death
certificates, but also check the records >from the funeral home as well as
the cemetery. Frequently I found two of those three records would list
place of birth 'unknown', but the third source would actually list a place.
Many times it wasn't the record for the specific individual which had the
information, but the record for either a child or a sibling. Of course
there is no guarantee that siblings were born in the same place, but it's
definitely a place to start! My gg grandparents had 7 children and it was
the 7th death certificate that I located that finally listed the place of
birth for my gg grandmother, all the others indicated 'unknown'. It can be
that the records for your direct ancestor won't have the information, that's
why it's important to go wide in your research. Someone in the family knew
the information and included it somewhere!

I also found places of birth for two gg grandfathers on their passport
applications. Both of them acquired passports decades before they were
mandatory (lucky for me) and again, some of the applications just listed a
country, while other applications were more specific and indicated towns.
The passport applications for these two ancestors were found on Ancestry.

Linda Silverman Shefler

--
From: silberman@...
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:57:37 +0000 (GMT+00:00)

What I am searching is as follows:

Abramson Russia
Silberman Romania
Collins Russia

I've been unable to locate any immigration records for these folk and no
city or area which sort of dead ends my search. Does anyone have a clue
as to how I might proceed?

Thanks,

Stephen Silberman

170981 - 171000 of 673365