Date   

Re: How did Jews from the Volhyn and Podolia Gubernyas think of themselves? #ukraine

Lisa P. Wanderman
 

Neville Lamdan asks:
In the 19th century, how did Jews >from the Volhyn and Podolia Gubernyas
think of themselves >from a geographic and cultural perspective? And
what did they, and their descendants, call themselves?
My grandmother, who was >from Ostrog, Volhyn Gubernia, spoke Russian, Polish,
and of course, Yiddish. Ostrog was considered a border town with Poland. My
grandmother considered herself Russian although >from time to time certain
affinities to Poland snuck in....probably because the borders kept on
changing. I was only a little kid, but I remember thinking her being pretty
"snobby" when I overheard her discussing other people (neighbors and trades
people) with my mother. She would refer to "Galitzianers" and "Litvaks"
fairly contemptuously. My mother, who was born in the US, would be patient
and somewhat amused but would roll her eyes when my grandmother wasn't
looking. My grandmother's attitude really stumped me because, as far as I
was concerned, she, her downstairs neighbors, and the butcher, all spoke
with the same thick accents. My mother explained to me that my grandmother
spoke an "educated Yiddish" and some people did not. That there were
cultural differences between people >from different areas or countries and my
grandmother's attitude was based on generalities rather than fact. Like my
father complaining about "New Jersey Drivers." This all made sense to me
until I heard my grandmother mutter "dumb Litvak" under her breath. She was
referring to the grocer's wife, but I felt the sting when it occurred to me
that my father's family were all Litvak's! I was half "dumb Litvak!" My
mother really didn't have a good answer for this. My father laughed out loud
when I told him. It was, he said, all >from a different time and different
world.


Lisa Wanderman Gottlieb
New York, NY
lisa.wanderman@gmail.com
 
Researching:
WANDERMAN - Anyksciai, Lithuania; TOFT - Traupus, Lithuania; MIL -
Lithuania; FEIN - Moletai, Lithuania;
BOSKOFF (BASHMASHNIKOV) - Priluki, Poltava District, Ukraine; SUSID -
Ostrog, Rivne District, Ukraine;
GOTTLIEB - Galicia; ROTHENBERG/MITCHELL/ISAACS - Iasi, Romania; GROSS -
Hungary


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: How did Jews from the Volhyn and Podolia Gubernyas think of themselves? #ukraine

Lisa P. Wanderman
 

Neville Lamdan asks:
In the 19th century, how did Jews >from the Volhyn and Podolia Gubernyas
think of themselves >from a geographic and cultural perspective? And
what did they, and their descendants, call themselves?
My grandmother, who was >from Ostrog, Volhyn Gubernia, spoke Russian, Polish,
and of course, Yiddish. Ostrog was considered a border town with Poland. My
grandmother considered herself Russian although >from time to time certain
affinities to Poland snuck in....probably because the borders kept on
changing. I was only a little kid, but I remember thinking her being pretty
"snobby" when I overheard her discussing other people (neighbors and trades
people) with my mother. She would refer to "Galitzianers" and "Litvaks"
fairly contemptuously. My mother, who was born in the US, would be patient
and somewhat amused but would roll her eyes when my grandmother wasn't
looking. My grandmother's attitude really stumped me because, as far as I
was concerned, she, her downstairs neighbors, and the butcher, all spoke
with the same thick accents. My mother explained to me that my grandmother
spoke an "educated Yiddish" and some people did not. That there were
cultural differences between people >from different areas or countries and my
grandmother's attitude was based on generalities rather than fact. Like my
father complaining about "New Jersey Drivers." This all made sense to me
until I heard my grandmother mutter "dumb Litvak" under her breath. She was
referring to the grocer's wife, but I felt the sting when it occurred to me
that my father's family were all Litvak's! I was half "dumb Litvak!" My
mother really didn't have a good answer for this. My father laughed out loud
when I told him. It was, he said, all >from a different time and different
world.


Lisa Wanderman Gottlieb
New York, NY
lisa.wanderman@gmail.com
 
Researching:
WANDERMAN - Anyksciai, Lithuania; TOFT - Traupus, Lithuania; MIL -
Lithuania; FEIN - Moletai, Lithuania;
BOSKOFF (BASHMASHNIKOV) - Priluki, Poltava District, Ukraine; SUSID -
Ostrog, Rivne District, Ukraine;
GOTTLIEB - Galicia; ROTHENBERG/MITCHELL/ISAACS - Iasi, Romania; GROSS -
Hungary


Finding the Podolski town or region in the Ukraine #general

Lawrence Fagan
 

A group of researchers are looking for a town/region named Podolski in
the general area of Kiev in the Ukraine. We have several different
naturalization and manifest documents >from the early 20th century that
identify Poldolski as a point of origin. The rest of the family was
from Priluki or Pereyaslav in Poltava province, so we anticipate that
this location is in that same general area.

We have explored some possibilities--including that Podolski was used
to identify people >from Podolia. Podolia included the towns of:
Kamianets Podolski and Mohyliv-Podilskyy (and each have Podolski as
part of those town names). We also don't see any entries for Podolski
in the JewishGen community finder.

Thank you for any guidance as to the proper town or area to explore further,

Larry Fagan


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Finding the Podolski town or region in the Ukraine #general

Lawrence Fagan
 

A group of researchers are looking for a town/region named Podolski in
the general area of Kiev in the Ukraine. We have several different
naturalization and manifest documents >from the early 20th century that
identify Poldolski as a point of origin. The rest of the family was
from Priluki or Pereyaslav in Poltava province, so we anticipate that
this location is in that same general area.

We have explored some possibilities--including that Podolski was used
to identify people >from Podolia. Podolia included the towns of:
Kamianets Podolski and Mohyliv-Podilskyy (and each have Podolski as
part of those town names). We also don't see any entries for Podolski
in the JewishGen community finder.

Thank you for any guidance as to the proper town or area to explore further,

Larry Fagan


Yiddish translation help needed #general

Lisa
 

Is there anyone in the group who can read a typed Yiddish print? I would
like to know what type of a document or letter that I have and the nature of
it, along with the date, town, and who wrote it? I would appreciate the
help very much!
Please respond privately to REDBALL62@aol.com

Many thanks,
Lisa Brahin Weinblatt

MODERATOR NOTE: For future reference: ViewMate, a service provided via JewishGen,
allows one to take a scan or digital photograph of an document and upload it for
all to see and evaluate. http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yiddish translation help needed #general

Lisa
 

Is there anyone in the group who can read a typed Yiddish print? I would
like to know what type of a document or letter that I have and the nature of
it, along with the date, town, and who wrote it? I would appreciate the
help very much!
Please respond privately to REDBALL62@aol.com

Many thanks,
Lisa Brahin Weinblatt

MODERATOR NOTE: For future reference: ViewMate, a service provided via JewishGen,
allows one to take a scan or digital photograph of an document and upload it for
all to see and evaluate. http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/


Re: Botosani county records update #romania

Lisa Cohn
 

Thank you, Sorin, for the update.
This may be a dumb question but is the town of Sulitsa, the same as Novo Sulitsa,
as in Novoseltisa? I have family >from Novosseltisa and one of the birth certificates
I have calls it Novo Sulitsa.   Just wondering if it was the same?

Thanks,
Lisa

*Moderator Note: Please post specific questions relating to Botosani County Records
directly to Sorin.


Romania SIG #Romania Re: Botosani county records update #romania

Lisa Cohn
 

Thank you, Sorin, for the update.
This may be a dumb question but is the town of Sulitsa, the same as Novo Sulitsa,
as in Novoseltisa? I have family >from Novosseltisa and one of the birth certificates
I have calls it Novo Sulitsa.   Just wondering if it was the same?

Thanks,
Lisa

*Moderator Note: Please post specific questions relating to Botosani County Records
directly to Sorin.


Database of German Casualties in WWI #germany

Richard <r.d.oppenheimer@...>
 

Hello,
Does anyone know if there is a searchable database of German casualties from
World War I.
I know I have German relatives who died while serving their country.

Best regards, Richard D. Oppenheimer Florida USA

Moderator note: This question has been asked and answered many times in this
forum. There is a link to the SIG Archives search page on the List Manager page
at JewishGen. A link to List Manager is in the last line of every list email >from GerSIG
and all other JewishGen lists. http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager


Re: Botosani County Records Update #romania

Marcel Bratu <marcelbratu@...>
 

Dear Sorin,
I congratulate you for the work in Sulitsa. >from Dorohoi, many times I
visited this shtetl. Many boys came to Dorohoi for the High School because
in Sulitsa didn't exist. In this way many new families were created with
these people in Dorohoi.

Noua Sulitsa is the same town or other ?

Have a Happy New Year,
Marcel


German SIG #Germany Database of German Casualties in WWI #germany

Richard <r.d.oppenheimer@...>
 

Hello,
Does anyone know if there is a searchable database of German casualties from
World War I.
I know I have German relatives who died while serving their country.

Best regards, Richard D. Oppenheimer Florida USA

Moderator note: This question has been asked and answered many times in this
forum. There is a link to the SIG Archives search page on the List Manager page
at JewishGen. A link to List Manager is in the last line of every list email >from GerSIG
and all other JewishGen lists. http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager


Romania SIG #Romania Re: Botosani County Records Update #romania

Marcel Bratu <marcelbratu@...>
 

Dear Sorin,
I congratulate you for the work in Sulitsa. >from Dorohoi, many times I
visited this shtetl. Many boys came to Dorohoi for the High School because
in Sulitsa didn't exist. In this way many new families were created with
these people in Dorohoi.

Noua Sulitsa is the same town or other ?

Have a Happy New Year,
Marcel


[US] US Department of Defense's Public Domain Archive to be Privatized, 10 year Contract #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Department of Defense manages a huge library of photographs and other
media that has been declassified. According to Archivist Rick Prelinger as
reported in Boing-Boing- The U.S. Department of Defense has entered into a
contract with T3 Media to get its still and moving image collection
digitized at no cost to the government. In exchange, T3 Media will become
the exclusive public outlet for millions of images and videos for ten years,
and receive a 10-year exclusive license to charge for public access to these
public domain materials. It is expected that it will occur over the next 5
years to have the full declassified library online.

The Defense Imagery Management Operations Center (DIMOC) is the operational
arm of the Defense Visual Information Directorate (DVI), a component of
Defense Media Activity. DIMOC serves as the official Department of Defense
(DoD)Visual Image Records Center for the storage and preservation of
original and irreplaceable motion picture, video, still, audio, and mixed
Visual Imagery records depicting the DoD's heritage and current activities.

The DoD is following the model used by the National Archives and Records
Administration (NARA) that provides digitization of select records (e.g.
documents, photographs, etc.) at no-cost to the Government. This no-cost
model permits a contractor to digitize the selected records and receive a
return on their investment during a period of exclusivity in exchange for
providing the National Archives digitized copies.

T3 stated the material will be available for licensing." Costs, procedures
and restrictions are still undecided or undisclosed". At this time it is
unknown if following the 10-year contract with T3 if the DoD will provide
the visual imagery on their website.
To read more about this go to:
http://boingboing.net/2013/12/21/us-department-of-defenses-pu.html and
http://gcn.com/articles/2013/12/12/dod-library.aspx

To read more about the DoD's Defense Imagery website see:
http://www.defenseimagery.mil/products.html Using the search mechanism I
was able to find some visual images >from WWII but not earlier than that
conflict.

Thank you to David Oseas for alerting us to this interesting visual imagery
archive to be made available to the public through T3.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen [US] US Department of Defense's Public Domain Archive to be Privatized, 10 year Contract #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Department of Defense manages a huge library of photographs and other
media that has been declassified. According to Archivist Rick Prelinger as
reported in Boing-Boing- The U.S. Department of Defense has entered into a
contract with T3 Media to get its still and moving image collection
digitized at no cost to the government. In exchange, T3 Media will become
the exclusive public outlet for millions of images and videos for ten years,
and receive a 10-year exclusive license to charge for public access to these
public domain materials. It is expected that it will occur over the next 5
years to have the full declassified library online.

The Defense Imagery Management Operations Center (DIMOC) is the operational
arm of the Defense Visual Information Directorate (DVI), a component of
Defense Media Activity. DIMOC serves as the official Department of Defense
(DoD)Visual Image Records Center for the storage and preservation of
original and irreplaceable motion picture, video, still, audio, and mixed
Visual Imagery records depicting the DoD's heritage and current activities.

The DoD is following the model used by the National Archives and Records
Administration (NARA) that provides digitization of select records (e.g.
documents, photographs, etc.) at no-cost to the Government. This no-cost
model permits a contractor to digitize the selected records and receive a
return on their investment during a period of exclusivity in exchange for
providing the National Archives digitized copies.

T3 stated the material will be available for licensing." Costs, procedures
and restrictions are still undecided or undisclosed". At this time it is
unknown if following the 10-year contract with T3 if the DoD will provide
the visual imagery on their website.
To read more about this go to:
http://boingboing.net/2013/12/21/us-department-of-defenses-pu.html and
http://gcn.com/articles/2013/12/12/dod-library.aspx

To read more about the DoD's Defense Imagery website see:
http://www.defenseimagery.mil/products.html Using the search mechanism I
was able to find some visual images >from WWII but not earlier than that
conflict.

Thank you to David Oseas for alerting us to this interesting visual imagery
archive to be made available to the public through T3.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Free Access to Ancestry.ca With Worldwide Access Through December 29, 2013, 11:59 p.m. (ET) #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Ancestry.ca is offering free worldwide access to over 100 million records
through December 29, 2013 11:59 pm ET. To view these records you will need
to register for free with Ancestry.ca with your name and email address. Once
you have registered they will then send you a user name and password to
access the records. If you haven't already, you will be prompted to register
once you start trying to search and view the records. After December 29,
2013, you will only be able to view these records using an Ancestry.ca paid
membership. Go to: ancestry.ca/newyears .

When you go to that page and sign in you will see a prompt on the right
"View all collections included in this search" which will advise you which
of their collections are free access during this time frame. If you search
a collection that is not free, you will be prompted to sign up for a 14-day
trial where you must give them a credit card.

I have no relationship with Ancestry.com and post this information solely
for the information of the reader.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Free Access to Ancestry.ca With Worldwide Access Through December 29, 2013, 11:59 p.m. (ET) #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Ancestry.ca is offering free worldwide access to over 100 million records
through December 29, 2013 11:59 pm ET. To view these records you will need
to register for free with Ancestry.ca with your name and email address. Once
you have registered they will then send you a user name and password to
access the records. If you haven't already, you will be prompted to register
once you start trying to search and view the records. After December 29,
2013, you will only be able to view these records using an Ancestry.ca paid
membership. Go to: ancestry.ca/newyears .

When you go to that page and sign in you will see a prompt on the right
"View all collections included in this search" which will advise you which
of their collections are free access during this time frame. If you search
a collection that is not free, you will be prompted to sign up for a 14-day
trial where you must give them a credit card.

I have no relationship with Ancestry.com and post this information solely
for the information of the reader.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Children and naturalization, two personal mysteries #general

David W. Perle
 

Hi, all. I came across a couple of odd things about my grandfather and
his family's U.S. naturalization, which I was hoping for some insight on:

Mystery #1

My grandfather (Sam BLUM) arrived at Ellis Island in July 1920, having
left his home in Poland which at the time was part of Russia. I know that
he did--I have the passenger list with that date showing him, his mother,
his brother, and his sister, and it shows that they were on their way to his
father's place in Cleveland at the address where I know that my
great-grandfather resided. It's them.

On his father's (Leiser/Louis BLUM) petition for naturalization in 1911,
my grandfather Sam's and his siblings' names are provided and it's also
written, "Born at Russia, reside at Cleveland, Ohio." Again, this is **nine
years** before they actually arrived. Now, in 1920, six months before they
arrived, my great-grandfather Leiser's Order of Court Admitting Petitioner
is stamp-dated January 15, 1920, and it is actually written in, "By the
Court: Admitted on condition he brings his family to the U.S. in 6 mos."
Whereas it was suggested on the 1911 paperwork that his children were in
Cleveland, it was acknowledged here that they were still in Poland.
(Interestingly, It was always stated that Leiser's wife--my
great-grandmother--was always still in Poland.)

My grandfather's index card says that he was naturalized at age 10. As
far as I can tell...he and his siblings were naturalized before they even
left their home in Poland to come to the U.S?? Was that even
possible/common?? (It just seems so odd to me that individuals would become
citizens in the U.S. before ever leaving their home country!)

Mystery #2

Now here's another thing. As far as my mom has ever known, her father
(Sam BLUM) was born September 10, 1910. However, on my great-grandfather
Leiser's petition to naturalize where it gives my grandfather's and his
siblings' names, it also states that my grandfather was born *August 5,
1909*. It is recorded that my grandfather was naturalized when he was 10
years old in 1920--evidently in January 1920--and that age only works with
that supposed 1909 birth date vs. when my mom always understood that her
father was born.

I have a theory. If my grandfather's birth date of 9/10/1910--which is
what my mom always knew to be her father?s birthday--is true, then that
means that his father Left Poland for the U.S. within a week or so of my
grandfather's birth. What I'm wondering is, were there prohibitions against
a father leaving his family with such a young child (say, within a year old)
at home, either by Polish/Russian law or by U.S. standards for accepting a
new immigrant, so that he perhaps lied about his child's age, adding 13
months to his age?

David Perle
Washington, DC
United States


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Children and naturalization, two personal mysteries #general

David W. Perle
 

Hi, all. I came across a couple of odd things about my grandfather and
his family's U.S. naturalization, which I was hoping for some insight on:

Mystery #1

My grandfather (Sam BLUM) arrived at Ellis Island in July 1920, having
left his home in Poland which at the time was part of Russia. I know that
he did--I have the passenger list with that date showing him, his mother,
his brother, and his sister, and it shows that they were on their way to his
father's place in Cleveland at the address where I know that my
great-grandfather resided. It's them.

On his father's (Leiser/Louis BLUM) petition for naturalization in 1911,
my grandfather Sam's and his siblings' names are provided and it's also
written, "Born at Russia, reside at Cleveland, Ohio." Again, this is **nine
years** before they actually arrived. Now, in 1920, six months before they
arrived, my great-grandfather Leiser's Order of Court Admitting Petitioner
is stamp-dated January 15, 1920, and it is actually written in, "By the
Court: Admitted on condition he brings his family to the U.S. in 6 mos."
Whereas it was suggested on the 1911 paperwork that his children were in
Cleveland, it was acknowledged here that they were still in Poland.
(Interestingly, It was always stated that Leiser's wife--my
great-grandmother--was always still in Poland.)

My grandfather's index card says that he was naturalized at age 10. As
far as I can tell...he and his siblings were naturalized before they even
left their home in Poland to come to the U.S?? Was that even
possible/common?? (It just seems so odd to me that individuals would become
citizens in the U.S. before ever leaving their home country!)

Mystery #2

Now here's another thing. As far as my mom has ever known, her father
(Sam BLUM) was born September 10, 1910. However, on my great-grandfather
Leiser's petition to naturalize where it gives my grandfather's and his
siblings' names, it also states that my grandfather was born *August 5,
1909*. It is recorded that my grandfather was naturalized when he was 10
years old in 1920--evidently in January 1920--and that age only works with
that supposed 1909 birth date vs. when my mom always understood that her
father was born.

I have a theory. If my grandfather's birth date of 9/10/1910--which is
what my mom always knew to be her father?s birthday--is true, then that
means that his father Left Poland for the U.S. within a week or so of my
grandfather's birth. What I'm wondering is, were there prohibitions against
a father leaving his family with such a young child (say, within a year old)
at home, either by Polish/Russian law or by U.S. standards for accepting a
new immigrant, so that he perhaps lied about his child's age, adding 13
months to his age?

David Perle
Washington, DC
United States


Re: Galitzianer - territorial definition of the concept #galicia

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 Neville Lamdan <nlamdan@netvision.net.il>
asked the Gesher Galicia list, in part:

<<Is there a territorial definition for the overall region in which Jews
called themselves Galitzianers, and/or thought of themselves as
Galitzianers?

<<Put another way, did that notional territory extend beyond the
official borders of the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, in the
same way as Jews who called themselves Litvaks lived in a region
that was far wider than Lithuania proper, broadly corresponding with
the historic Duchy of Lithuania?

<<I ask the question with specific reference to Jews who, in the 19th
century, lived somewhat beyond the eastern border of the
Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia, i.e. in western Volhynia and
Podolia, in towns such as Starakonstantinov, Proskurov/Khmelnitsky
and Kamenets-Podolsk (then in the Russian "Pale of Settlement",
today in Ukraine).>>

Suzan Wynn has properly addressed the question of the territorial
limits of the Province of Galicia.

I would like to address more directly the question of Jews living
outside the Province of Galicia who may have considered themselves
to be Galitzianers. This is purely a cultural or ethnic question having
little to do with the specific borders of Galicia other than the fact
that the people in question were generally not living within them.

Jews moved around. A lot. A Jew raised in Galicia could relocate to
Bukowina, Bohemia, Romania, Vienna, Paris, or New York. Such
people could, and sometimes did, identify themselves as Galitzianers.
But there was not a definable national/ethnic territory stretching
beyond the actual borders of Galicia in which Jews automatically
considered themselves to be Galician the way, for example, Poles in
19th century Germany, Austria and Russia were still Poles, based on
a then non-existent political boundary.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@Rochester.rr.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Galitzianer - territorial definition of the concept #galicia

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 Neville Lamdan <nlamdan@netvision.net.il>
asked the Gesher Galicia list, in part:

<<Is there a territorial definition for the overall region in which Jews
called themselves Galitzianers, and/or thought of themselves as
Galitzianers?

<<Put another way, did that notional territory extend beyond the
official borders of the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, in the
same way as Jews who called themselves Litvaks lived in a region
that was far wider than Lithuania proper, broadly corresponding with
the historic Duchy of Lithuania?

<<I ask the question with specific reference to Jews who, in the 19th
century, lived somewhat beyond the eastern border of the
Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia, i.e. in western Volhynia and
Podolia, in towns such as Starakonstantinov, Proskurov/Khmelnitsky
and Kamenets-Podolsk (then in the Russian "Pale of Settlement",
today in Ukraine).>>

Suzan Wynn has properly addressed the question of the territorial
limits of the Province of Galicia.

I would like to address more directly the question of Jews living
outside the Province of Galicia who may have considered themselves
to be Galitzianers. This is purely a cultural or ethnic question having
little to do with the specific borders of Galicia other than the fact
that the people in question were generally not living within them.

Jews moved around. A lot. A Jew raised in Galicia could relocate to
Bukowina, Bohemia, Romania, Vienna, Paris, or New York. Such
people could, and sometimes did, identify themselves as Galitzianers.
But there was not a definable national/ethnic territory stretching
beyond the actual borders of Galicia in which Jews automatically
considered themselves to be Galician the way, for example, Poles in
19th century Germany, Austria and Russia were still Poles, based on
a then non-existent political boundary.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@Rochester.rr.com

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