JewishGen.org Discussion Group FAQs
What is the JewishGen.org Discussion Group?
The JewishGen.org Discussion Group unites thousands of Jewish genealogical researchers worldwide as they research their family history, search for relatives, and share information, ideas, methods, tips, techniques, and resources. The JewishGen.org Discussion Group makes it easy, quick, and fun, to connect with others around the world.
Is it Secure?
Yes. JewishGen is using a state of the art platform with the most contemporary security standards. JewishGen will never share member information with third parties.
How is the New JewishGen.org Discussion Group better than the old one?
Our old Discussion List platform was woefully antiquated. Among its many challenges: it was not secure, it required messages to be sent in Plain Text, did not support accented characters or languages other than English, could not display links or images, and had archives that were not mobile-friendly.
This new platform that JewishGen is using is a scalable, and sustainable solution, and allows us to engage with JewishGen members throughout the world. It offers a simple and intuitive interface for both members and moderators, more powerful tools, and more secure archives (which are easily accessible on mobile devices, and which also block out personal email addresses to the public).
I am a JewishGen member, why do I have to create a separate account for the Discussion Group?
As we continue to modernize our platform, we are trying to ensure that everything meets contemporary security standards. In the future, we plan hope to have one single sign-in page.
I like how the current lists work. Will I still be able to send/receive emails of posts (and/or digests)?
Yes. In terms of functionality, the group will operate the same for people who like to participate with email. People can still send a message to an email address (in this case, main@groups.JewishGen.org), and receive a daily digest of postings, or individual emails. In addition, Members can also receive a daily summary of topics, and then choose which topics they would like to read about it. However, in addition to email, there is the additional functionality of being able to read/post messages utilizing our online forum (https://groups.jewishgen.org).
Does this new system require plain-text?
No.
Can I post images, accented characters, different colors/font sizes, non-latin characters?
Yes.
Can I categorize a message? For example, if my message is related to Polish, or Ukraine research, can I indicate as such?
Yes! Our new platform allows members to use “Hashtags.” Messages can then be sorted, and searched, based upon how they are categorized. Another advantage is that members can “mute” any conversations they are not interested in, by simply indicating they are not interested in a particular “hashtag.”
Will all posts be archived?
Yes.
Can I still search though old messages?
Yes. All the messages are accessible and searchable going back to 1998.
What if I have questions or need assistance using the new Group?
Send your questions to: support@JewishGen.org
How do I access the Group’s webpage?
Follow this link: https://groups.jewishgen.org/g/main
So just to be sure - this new group will allow us to post from our mobile phones, includes images, accented characters, and non-latin characters, and does not require plain text?
Correct!
Will there be any ads or annoying pop-ups?
No.
Will the current guidelines change?
Yes. While posts will be moderated to ensure civility, and that there is nothing posted that is inappropriate (or completely unrelated to genealogy), we will be trying to create an online community of people who regulate themselves, much as they do (very successfully) on Jewish Genealogy Portal on Facebook.
What are the new guidelines?
There are just a few simple rules & guidelines to follow, which you can read here:https://groups.jewishgen.org/g/main/guidelines
Thank you in advance for contributing to this amazing online community!
If you have any questions, or suggestions, please email support@JewishGen.org.
Sincerely,
The JewishGen.org Team
Re: First World War casualty
#general
Sherri Bobish
Hi Harold,
At www.fultonhistory.com (a free site of old digitized NY newspapers) you'll findthe following noticein the NY Herald, dated May 26, 1918. "NELSON - unveiling of monument to the respective memories of the late Morris D. NELSON and the late Lieutenant Harold G. NELSON, Royal Flying Corps., Sunday, June 1 at eleven o'clock, Union Fields Cemetery, Cypress Hills." And, NY Herald, dated February 18, 1918 contains a long article, and a photo of Lt. NELSON. If you go to www.fultonhistory.com and do an exact search for Harold G. Nelson you will find the article. Family names mentioned in the article are: Mrs. Anne Nelson (Harold's mother.) Harold's brothers: Lester B. NELSON, an attorney, Archibald NELSON, Lester B. NELSON. Regards, Sherri Bobish Princeton, NJ Searcing: RATOWSKY, Ariogala (Rogala), Lith. WALTZMAN / WALZMAN, Ustrzyki Dolne (Istryker), Pol. LEFFENFELD, Daliowa, Pol. BOJDA, BERGER, Tarnobrzeg, Pol. SOLON / SOLAN / SOKOLSKY, Grodek (Bialystok), Pol. BOBISH / APPEL, Odessa --- Does anybody know anything about Harold Griffith NELSON? I came across him in a report in the Jewish Chronicle [London] in 1918 saying that he was an officer if the Royal Flying Corps and had been killed in a flying accident. It said that he was born in New York and had gone to Canada to train in the RFC. He was aged 25 or 26 when he died. The report said that his mother wanted his body to be buried in New York. I take it that while the newspaper made mistakes I suppose his mention in it suggests that he was Jewish, despite the name. If so, I wonder what his original name was. I suppose it would be hard to find where he was buried. Harold Pollins Oxford England
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First World War casualty
#general
Sherri Bobish
Hi Harold,
At www.fultonhistory.com (a free site of old digitized NY newspapers) you'll findthe following noticein the NY Herald, dated May 26, 1918. "NELSON - unveiling of monument to the respective memories of the late Morris D. NELSON and the late Lieutenant Harold G. NELSON, Royal Flying Corps., Sunday, June 1 at eleven o'clock, Union Fields Cemetery, Cypress Hills." And, NY Herald, dated February 18, 1918 contains a long article, and a photo of Lt. NELSON. If you go to www.fultonhistory.com and do an exact search for Harold G. Nelson you will find the article. Family names mentioned in the article are: Mrs. Anne Nelson (Harold's mother.) Harold's brothers: Lester B. NELSON, an attorney, Archibald NELSON, Lester B. NELSON. Regards, Sherri Bobish Princeton, NJ Searcing: RATOWSKY, Ariogala (Rogala), Lith. WALTZMAN / WALZMAN, Ustrzyki Dolne (Istryker), Pol. LEFFENFELD, Daliowa, Pol. BOJDA, BERGER, Tarnobrzeg, Pol. SOLON / SOLAN / SOKOLSKY, Grodek (Bialystok), Pol. BOBISH / APPEL, Odessa --- Does anybody know anything about Harold Griffith NELSON? I came across him in a report in the Jewish Chronicle [London] in 1918 saying that he was an officer if the Royal Flying Corps and had been killed in a flying accident. It said that he was born in New York and had gone to Canada to train in the RFC. He was aged 25 or 26 when he died. The report said that his mother wanted his body to be buried in New York. I take it that while the newspaper made mistakes I suppose his mention in it suggests that he was Jewish, despite the name. If so, I wonder what his original name was. I suppose it would be hard to find where he was buried. Harold Pollins Oxford England
|
|
Finding Photos of Family Businesses
#general
I thought I would share my experience in finding photos of Family
Businesses. Most researchers will not find a family store image by searching for that business name alone. I have been successful in finding several images of my grandfather Abe Wolpert's "Wolpert Grocery" and "Wolpert and Company" stores in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He would eventually add his brother-in-law Max W. Davis to the business to become "Wolpert Davis". First look the business address in the city directory and note the address. >from there, find a MAJOR business that is on the same street. (Some city dirctories are on line and you can try an address search) Then do your image search for the neighboring Major business. I used a local hotel, which I knew was on the same block, for a name search. I then found several postcards of that hotel on a popular auction site. Next to the hotel is my grandfather's store, with the WOLPERT name on the storefront. It was a real treat to see the the family name on a postcard circa 1905, with hores pulled wagons and people in period dress, This technique also works well with state and other photo archives. I knew my grandfather was at an 1898 Minneapolis, Minnesota parade where President McKinley was inspecting the troops >from the Spanish American War. A search in the Minnesota Historical Society archives (www.mnhs.org) for the name McKinley, pulled up three photos of my grandfather in the crowd and the President in the background. I also found a Wolpert-Davis storefront photo there too., Side note: If you have the business address, many county tax records are now searchable on-line by address. So look up the address and there is a chance that the building is still standing today. Also, a number of major cities tax records will give satellite and street views for how the address looks today. Happy hunting. Bill Wolpert WOLPERT VOLPERT WOLFE, Tryskiai, Vieksniai, Kraziai, Kedainiai GROSBERG GROSSBERG, Tryskiai
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Finding Photos of Family Businesses
#general
I thought I would share my experience in finding photos of Family
Businesses. Most researchers will not find a family store image by searching for that business name alone. I have been successful in finding several images of my grandfather Abe Wolpert's "Wolpert Grocery" and "Wolpert and Company" stores in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He would eventually add his brother-in-law Max W. Davis to the business to become "Wolpert Davis". First look the business address in the city directory and note the address. >from there, find a MAJOR business that is on the same street. (Some city dirctories are on line and you can try an address search) Then do your image search for the neighboring Major business. I used a local hotel, which I knew was on the same block, for a name search. I then found several postcards of that hotel on a popular auction site. Next to the hotel is my grandfather's store, with the WOLPERT name on the storefront. It was a real treat to see the the family name on a postcard circa 1905, with hores pulled wagons and people in period dress, This technique also works well with state and other photo archives. I knew my grandfather was at an 1898 Minneapolis, Minnesota parade where President McKinley was inspecting the troops >from the Spanish American War. A search in the Minnesota Historical Society archives (www.mnhs.org) for the name McKinley, pulled up three photos of my grandfather in the crowd and the President in the background. I also found a Wolpert-Davis storefront photo there too., Side note: If you have the business address, many county tax records are now searchable on-line by address. So look up the address and there is a chance that the building is still standing today. Also, a number of major cities tax records will give satellite and street views for how the address looks today. Happy hunting. Bill Wolpert WOLPERT VOLPERT WOLFE, Tryskiai, Vieksniai, Kraziai, Kedainiai GROSBERG GROSSBERG, Tryskiai
|
|
hadassahlipsius
The link is http://www.warszawa.getto.pl
Hadassah Lipsius Kew Gardens Hills, NY On Feb 10, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Peter Lebensold <peter@lebensold.com> wrote:r so) that used to be at http://warsawa.ghetto.pl/ ? That link seems to no l= onger be active. =20
|
|
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland is pleased to announce the
addition of 4300 records to our database >from an unusual source, "Russian-Jewish Fallen Soldiers in WWI" published in a Russian newspaper. A full description of the project is linked >from the navigation bar on the JRI-Poland home page www.jri-poland.org under "projects." Project history ~~~~~~~~~~~~ In early 2013, Jewish Records Indexing - Poland learned of the availability of these lists of Russian casualties >from WWI for the years 1914-1916. Under the coordination of Joel Ratner, Jewish genealogical Special Interest Groups were invited to collaborate on a project to create detailed extracts of all information in these Russian language lists. (While the lists for 1917 and 1918 are not currently available, it is hoped that they will also be scanned and accessible for extraction.) JRI-Poland undertook the extraction of all Polish Gubernias and the former Grodno Gubernia (for which a large area covers current part of Poland). The work was carried out by a retired archivist in Poland familiar with all aspects of Jewish records, surnames and given names. The lists are published on the website of the Russian State Library (www.rsl.ru). There are images of more than 50,000 pages covering the years 1914-1916. Many of the Russian Gubernias (provinces) did not have sizeable Jewish populations and thus many pages did not include Jewish soldiers. For Gubernias with a significant numbers of Jews, the ratio of Jewish to non-Jewish soldiers listed is still relatively small. Overview of Polish data ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The following fields appear in the record entries: Family Name Given Name Patronymic Rank Religion Marital Status Gubernia (where the list was compiled) Uyezd (district where soldier originated) Town (town where soldier originated) Status Date (when soldier declared dead, wounded or missing in action) Although the publication is Russian, the names were transliterated into Polish spelling for consistency with vital records. The database includes 4310 soldiers with 3365 different surnames. 2532 were listed as Missing in Action, 1333 Killed in Action, 332 Wounded and 2 AWOL (absent without leave). A frequency list of all SURNAMES extracted >from the database can be viewed at www.jri-poland.org/russian-jewish-fallen-soldiers-ww1-surnames.htm More than 1000 towns are represented; understandably, most soldiers were >from the larger centers of Warsaw (317), Lodz (194), Lublin (97), Bialystok (66) and Grodno (59). Note, however, town names were only mentioned in 3/4 of the entries. Where town names are not included, the Powiat (District) is often provided. A frequency list of all TOWN names extracted >from the database can be viewed at www.jri-poland.org/russian-jewish-fallen-soldiers-ww1-towns.htm The Gubernias with the highest number of soldiers were Grodno (872), Warszawa (801), Lublin (701) and Piotrkow (588). The lists were of lower rank soldiers and identified as: Private (3142), Rifleman (463), Shooter (191), Grenadier (165), Lance Corporal (132), Gunner (71), Junior Sergeant (23), Artillery (17), Drummer (5), Senior Sergeant (5). The project page also has a downloadable Excel file with a detailed analysis of the above data. Accessing the data ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All information appearing in the original publication of the Russian- Jewish Fallen Soldiers lists has been included in the database. There is no further information available. Sample entries >from the original source appear on the project page. Funding - Your donations are needed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jewish Records Indexing - Poland fundraising is typically "shtetl-specific" with researchers interested in specific towns asked to contribute to the funding of their town's data. However, the Russian- Jewish Fallen Soldiers of World War I project includes residents of more than 1000 towns. Thus the "shtetl-specific" fundraising model does not apply. We are pleased to advise that The San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society has made a generous grant to JRI-Poland for this project, funding 40% of its cost, and enabling JRI-Poland to release the data prior to the project being fully funded. It is our hope that researchers making discoveries of family members will make a contribution of their choice to the project in order to enable JRI-Poland to complete the funding. No amount is too small. Please click here to make your donation. http://www.jri-poland.org/support.htm JRI-Poland is an independent non-profit tax-exempt Organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Under special arrangement, JRI-Poland data is also displayed in the JewishGen All-Poland database results. Stanley Diamond For the Board of Jewish Records Indexing - Poland
|
|
hadassahlipsius
The link is http://www.warszawa.getto.pl
Hadassah Lipsius Kew Gardens Hills, NY On Feb 10, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Peter Lebensold <peter@lebensold.com> wrote:r so) that used to be at http://warsawa.ghetto.pl/ ? That link seems to no l= onger be active. =20
|
|
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland is pleased to announce the
addition of 4300 records to our database >from an unusual source, "Russian-Jewish Fallen Soldiers in WWI" published in a Russian newspaper. A full description of the project is linked >from the navigation bar on the JRI-Poland home page www.jri-poland.org under "projects." Project history ~~~~~~~~~~~~ In early 2013, Jewish Records Indexing - Poland learned of the availability of these lists of Russian casualties >from WWI for the years 1914-1916. Under the coordination of Joel Ratner, Jewish genealogical Special Interest Groups were invited to collaborate on a project to create detailed extracts of all information in these Russian language lists. (While the lists for 1917 and 1918 are not currently available, it is hoped that they will also be scanned and accessible for extraction.) JRI-Poland undertook the extraction of all Polish Gubernias and the former Grodno Gubernia (for which a large area covers current part of Poland). The work was carried out by a retired archivist in Poland familiar with all aspects of Jewish records, surnames and given names. The lists are published on the website of the Russian State Library (www.rsl.ru). There are images of more than 50,000 pages covering the years 1914-1916. Many of the Russian Gubernias (provinces) did not have sizeable Jewish populations and thus many pages did not include Jewish soldiers. For Gubernias with a significant numbers of Jews, the ratio of Jewish to non-Jewish soldiers listed is still relatively small. Overview of Polish data ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The following fields appear in the record entries: Family Name Given Name Patronymic Rank Religion Marital Status Gubernia (where the list was compiled) Uyezd (district where soldier originated) Town (town where soldier originated) Status Date (when soldier declared dead, wounded or missing in action) Although the publication is Russian, the names were transliterated into Polish spelling for consistency with vital records. The database includes 4310 soldiers with 3365 different surnames. 2532 were listed as Missing in Action, 1333 Killed in Action, 332 Wounded and 2 AWOL (absent without leave). A frequency list of all SURNAMES extracted >from the database can be viewed at www.jri-poland.org/russian-jewish-fallen-soldiers-ww1-surnames.htm More than 1000 towns are represented; understandably, most soldiers were >from the larger centers of Warsaw (317), Lodz (194), Lublin (97), Bialystok (66) and Grodno (59). Note, however, town names were only mentioned in 3/4 of the entries. Where town names are not included, the Powiat (District) is often provided. A frequency list of all TOWN names extracted >from the database can be viewed at www.jri-poland.org/russian-jewish-fallen-soldiers-ww1-towns.htm The Gubernias with the highest number of soldiers were Grodno (872), Warszawa (801), Lublin (701) and Piotrkow (588). The lists were of lower rank soldiers and identified as: Private (3142), Rifleman (463), Shooter (191), Grenadier (165), Lance Corporal (132), Gunner (71), Junior Sergeant (23), Artillery (17), Drummer (5), Senior Sergeant (5). The project page also has a downloadable Excel file with a detailed analysis of the above data. Accessing the data ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All information appearing in the original publication of the Russian- Jewish Fallen Soldiers lists has been included in the database. There is no further information available. Sample entries >from the original source appear on the project page. Funding - Your donations are needed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jewish Records Indexing - Poland fundraising is typically "shtetl-specific" with researchers interested in specific towns asked to contribute to the funding of their town's data. However, the Russian- Jewish Fallen Soldiers of World War I project includes residents of more than 1000 towns. Thus the "shtetl-specific" fundraising model does not apply. We are pleased to advise that The San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society has made a generous grant to JRI-Poland for this project, funding 40% of its cost, and enabling JRI-Poland to release the data prior to the project being fully funded. It is our hope that researchers making discoveries of family members will make a contribution of their choice to the project in order to enable JRI-Poland to complete the funding. No amount is too small. Please click here to make your donation. http://www.jri-poland.org/support.htm JRI-Poland is an independent non-profit tax-exempt Organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Under special arrangement, JRI-Poland data is also displayed in the JewishGen All-Poland database results. Stanley Diamond For the Board of Jewish Records Indexing - Poland
|
|
Re: Accuracy of Naturalization Records
#general
Paul Silverstone
In 1933 my aunt received her US passport stating she was born in New
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
York in 1890. This repeats the information she put on her application form. However she was born in Russian Poland and arrived in New York with her mother in 1892. Apparently no one checked, and there was no letter affirming the data. Paul Silverstone
On 2/14/2014 12:37 PM, Phyllis Kramer wrote:
Rochelle P. Gershenow asked: --
Paul Silverstone New York please reply to paulh@aya.yale.edu
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Accuracy of Naturalization Records
#general
Paul Silverstone
In 1933 my aunt received her US passport stating she was born in New
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
York in 1890. This repeats the information she put on her application form. However she was born in Russian Poland and arrived in New York with her mother in 1892. Apparently no one checked, and there was no letter affirming the data. Paul Silverstone
On 2/14/2014 12:37 PM, Phyllis Kramer wrote:
Rochelle P. Gershenow asked: --
Paul Silverstone New York please reply to paulh@aya.yale.edu
|
|
Re: First World War casualty
#general
Snillop47@...
I recently posted a request for information about a US citizen, Harold
Griffith NELSON, who was killed in 1918 while serving with the [British] Royal Flying Corps. I particularly wanted confirmation that he was Jewish. A number of helpful replies came >from the USA, for which I am grateful. from the information they supplied it is quite clear that he was Jewish.Many thanks to all who replied. Harold Pollins Oxford England
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First World War casualty
#general
Snillop47@...
I recently posted a request for information about a US citizen, Harold
Griffith NELSON, who was killed in 1918 while serving with the [British] Royal Flying Corps. I particularly wanted confirmation that he was Jewish. A number of helpful replies came >from the USA, for which I am grateful. from the information they supplied it is quite clear that he was Jewish.Many thanks to all who replied. Harold Pollins Oxford England
|
|
Re: Jewish Cemeteries of Newark
#general
Phyllis Kramer
Since my recent posting on this topic, i've heard >from a few
'genners...and learned of a book, The Old Jewish Cemeteries of Newark by Alice Perkins Gould This book is available through Avotaynu. http://www.avotaynu.com/books/Newark.htm One genner wrote that the author of the book had a map of the cemetery and database of the plot numbers of its occupants, and by contacting her he was able to find the graves of his grandparents. Happy Hunting! Phyllis Kramer, VP, Education, www.JewishGen.org/education
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish Cemeteries of Newark
#general
Phyllis Kramer
Since my recent posting on this topic, i've heard >from a few
'genners...and learned of a book, The Old Jewish Cemeteries of Newark by Alice Perkins Gould This book is available through Avotaynu. http://www.avotaynu.com/books/Newark.htm One genner wrote that the author of the book had a map of the cemetery and database of the plot numbers of its occupants, and by contacting her he was able to find the graves of his grandparents. Happy Hunting! Phyllis Kramer, VP, Education, www.JewishGen.org/education
|
|
Re: [Norway] 1910, 1865 and 1891 Norwegian Censuses Posted Online
#general
Jeff T. Severson
Norway's Digitalarkivet also includes the census data for 1664-1666, 1701,
1801, 1875, 1885, and 1900. It also includes parish records, real estate registrars, probate records, and much more. The parish records were a treasure trove of information for me when I was researching my Severson line. The homepage, which contains links to all of this information, is at http://www.arkivverket.no/eng/Digitalarkivet . Regards, Jeff Severson Researching: Rosenthal, Simon, Fellerman http://www.rosenthal-severson.com
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: [Norway] 1910, 1865 and 1891 Norwegian Censuses Posted Online
#general
Jeff T. Severson
Norway's Digitalarkivet also includes the census data for 1664-1666, 1701,
1801, 1875, 1885, and 1900. It also includes parish records, real estate registrars, probate records, and much more. The parish records were a treasure trove of information for me when I was researching my Severson line. The homepage, which contains links to all of this information, is at http://www.arkivverket.no/eng/Digitalarkivet . Regards, Jeff Severson Researching: Rosenthal, Simon, Fellerman http://www.rosenthal-severson.com
|
|
Re: Wedding witnessed by relatives 1860 - Galicia
#general
Russ Maurer <RMaur@...>
Thanks to those who replied to my inquiry, both to the list and
privately. As several correctly inferred, I was looking at a record >from a civil register, not a religious marriage document (Ketubah). It was thus a record of a civil, rather than religious, ceremony. While I was aware of the existence of both kinds of ceremonies, what I had not appreciated was that the witnesses to a civil ceremony did not have to, and generally did not, meet the religious qualifications mentioned in my post. Now I know. Russ Maurer Pepper Pike, OH
|
|
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Wedding witnessed by relatives 1860 - Galicia
#general
Russ Maurer <RMaur@...>
Thanks to those who replied to my inquiry, both to the list and
privately. As several correctly inferred, I was looking at a record >from a civil register, not a religious marriage document (Ketubah). It was thus a record of a civil, rather than religious, ceremony. While I was aware of the existence of both kinds of ceremonies, what I had not appreciated was that the witnesses to a civil ceremony did not have to, and generally did not, meet the religious qualifications mentioned in my post. Now I know. Russ Maurer Pepper Pike, OH
|
|
intro
#scandinavia
Pamela Foote
My name is Pamela Foote, and I am very glad to find your list! My
areas of research are, currently, Sweden and, more, particularly, Estonia, 17th & 18th cents. Am also curious why a Jewish population would be there, who had some Rhineland roots. Thanks, Pam Foote
|
|
Scandinavia SIG #Scandinavia intro
#scandinavia
Pamela Foote
My name is Pamela Foote, and I am very glad to find your list! My
areas of research are, currently, Sweden and, more, particularly, Estonia, 17th & 18th cents. Am also curious why a Jewish population would be there, who had some Rhineland roots. Thanks, Pam Foote
|
|