Date   
Polish, Austrian, Ukrainian, etc? #galicia

Wwhwhf@...
 

To respond to Peter Jaseem:

Your entire argument depends first on which historical period one is
discussing. Attitudes prevalent in the l9th century and those of the early
and mid-20th century were not the same. To a large degree, it also depends
on which country one is considering and even which socio-economic class of
Jews.

Furthermore and as for Poland, although by post World War II everyone thought
that your argument held true, the post World War II purge in Poland of Jews
who considered themselves wholly Polish brought all that back into question,
just the way the Nazis brought German Jews up short. In the post-war
communist period, 30,000 Poles, who happened to be Jews, suddenly discovered
that they were still really Jews who happened to be Poles. They had to leave
Poland. Many of them went to Sweden, where I met some about 30 years ago or
so, and some came to the U.S., one of whom I know well, Her husband was a
post-War World II Polish diplomat whose abilities and patriotism made no
difference.

Lieberman is not as parallel an example as he may appear at first sight.
America, American attitudes and tradition, are still quite different >from
Poland and Polilsh attitudes.

German Jews between the World Wars, in general, did not feel more German than
Jewish. Even the most patriotic felt both. In any case, comparing them with
Jews in pre-World War I, or even pre-World War II, Poland is comparing kasha
and borsht.

The argument is a complex one and depends on many factors. Simple answers
and simplistic comparisons are naive.

Bill Fern

Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Polish, Austrian, Ukrainian, etc? #galicia

Wwhwhf@...
 

To respond to Peter Jaseem:

Your entire argument depends first on which historical period one is
discussing. Attitudes prevalent in the l9th century and those of the early
and mid-20th century were not the same. To a large degree, it also depends
on which country one is considering and even which socio-economic class of
Jews.

Furthermore and as for Poland, although by post World War II everyone thought
that your argument held true, the post World War II purge in Poland of Jews
who considered themselves wholly Polish brought all that back into question,
just the way the Nazis brought German Jews up short. In the post-war
communist period, 30,000 Poles, who happened to be Jews, suddenly discovered
that they were still really Jews who happened to be Poles. They had to leave
Poland. Many of them went to Sweden, where I met some about 30 years ago or
so, and some came to the U.S., one of whom I know well, Her husband was a
post-War World II Polish diplomat whose abilities and patriotism made no
difference.

Lieberman is not as parallel an example as he may appear at first sight.
America, American attitudes and tradition, are still quite different >from
Poland and Polilsh attitudes.

German Jews between the World Wars, in general, did not feel more German than
Jewish. Even the most patriotic felt both. In any case, comparing them with
Jews in pre-World War I, or even pre-World War II, Poland is comparing kasha
and borsht.

The argument is a complex one and depends on many factors. Simple answers
and simplistic comparisons are naive.

Bill Fern

The STRUMA PROJECT - AN UPDATE #galicia

Judy Davies <Jude@...>
 

Dear moderator,

Thank you for uploading the letter regarding the Struma Project
- & thank you to Joe Ives for his response.
An article appeared in the London Times today ,which explores the incident &
todays reactions in Turkey to the Project & The Tragedy >from all points of
view.
I am a fairly young person and have a great affection for Turkey & have
enjoyed wonderful hospitality & kindness >from Turkish people -it is a
vibrant & exciting country.
I know many thousands of Jewish people >from Gallicia , Romania etc survived
by escaping through Turkey & of course not forgetting the Sephardic Jews who
gained refuge in Turkey after the expulsion >from Spain . Idealistically , I
have the hope that countries need to face their pasts even handedly &
openly about past glories & less glorious episodes to build stronger futures
for us all & generally over time they do, partly due to the voices of people
like those who organise Jewish Gen for us to regain & retain our heritage.
I am confident that The Turkish Government will continue to support the
Struma Project.

The article is at :
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?1124027


Thank you - Judith Davies, London England
Looking for Wiessbachs & Kindlers


[Now, back to genealogy! -Mod]

Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia The STRUMA PROJECT - AN UPDATE #galicia

Judy Davies <Jude@...>
 

Dear moderator,

Thank you for uploading the letter regarding the Struma Project
- & thank you to Joe Ives for his response.
An article appeared in the London Times today ,which explores the incident &
todays reactions in Turkey to the Project & The Tragedy >from all points of
view.
I am a fairly young person and have a great affection for Turkey & have
enjoyed wonderful hospitality & kindness >from Turkish people -it is a
vibrant & exciting country.
I know many thousands of Jewish people >from Gallicia , Romania etc survived
by escaping through Turkey & of course not forgetting the Sephardic Jews who
gained refuge in Turkey after the expulsion >from Spain . Idealistically , I
have the hope that countries need to face their pasts even handedly &
openly about past glories & less glorious episodes to build stronger futures
for us all & generally over time they do, partly due to the voices of people
like those who organise Jewish Gen for us to regain & retain our heritage.
I am confident that The Turkish Government will continue to support the
Struma Project.

The article is at :
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?1124027


Thank you - Judith Davies, London England
Looking for Wiessbachs & Kindlers


[Now, back to genealogy! -Mod]

Re: Nationality #galicia

Hcounter@...
 

In a message dated 8/17/00 11:53:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
jassep@... writes:

<< The letter says:
>Thanks, any Jew born in Galica should be considered Jewish, not Polish,
>Ukrainian, etc. The thought of my grandparents being "considered"
>Ukrainian (or any of the others) makes me physically ill. The governments
>and most of the people did not consider the Jews to be Polish, Ukranian,
>nor, God forbid, German. And neither should we. Regards, H...

Dear H..., your comment is very emotional and I understand this. >>


I was married to a Russian Jew. He too, if asked what his nationality was
would respond Jewish. So did all his relatives that I met. I found it an
interesting and somewhat confusing statement. Since I was not Jewish, I had
considered him American of Russian extract since both his parents were born
in Russia, but his religion as Jewish. Just as I considered myself American
of Irish, English and Czech extraction (most of my grandparents or
great-grandparents were born in those countries), and my religion Catholic.

At this point, since I have been unable to discover his father's immigration
papers or naturalization papers, I have not been able to get past this point.
However, a possible real last name would suggest that his father was
possibly of Polish extraction.

The only reasoning I could come up with is that because of anti-Semitism
throughout the ages, the Jewish people felt alot like the Germans >from Russia
do -- they are Germans who happen to have ancestors who spent 200 or less
years in Russia.

Neither my husband nor his relatives really gave me an answer to why they
felt their nationality was Jewish, but they do.

Annie

Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Nationality #galicia

Hcounter@...
 

In a message dated 8/17/00 11:53:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
jassep@... writes:

<< The letter says:
>Thanks, any Jew born in Galica should be considered Jewish, not Polish,
>Ukrainian, etc. The thought of my grandparents being "considered"
>Ukrainian (or any of the others) makes me physically ill. The governments
>and most of the people did not consider the Jews to be Polish, Ukranian,
>nor, God forbid, German. And neither should we. Regards, H...

Dear H..., your comment is very emotional and I understand this. >>


I was married to a Russian Jew. He too, if asked what his nationality was
would respond Jewish. So did all his relatives that I met. I found it an
interesting and somewhat confusing statement. Since I was not Jewish, I had
considered him American of Russian extract since both his parents were born
in Russia, but his religion as Jewish. Just as I considered myself American
of Irish, English and Czech extraction (most of my grandparents or
great-grandparents were born in those countries), and my religion Catholic.

At this point, since I have been unable to discover his father's immigration
papers or naturalization papers, I have not been able to get past this point.
However, a possible real last name would suggest that his father was
possibly of Polish extraction.

The only reasoning I could come up with is that because of anti-Semitism
throughout the ages, the Jewish people felt alot like the Germans >from Russia
do -- they are Germans who happen to have ancestors who spent 200 or less
years in Russia.

Neither my husband nor his relatives really gave me an answer to why they
felt their nationality was Jewish, but they do.

Annie

Mukachevo/Munkacs database #general

Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
 

Those of you who have any interest or connection to the town of
Mukachevo/Munkacs, Ukraine/Hungary may be interested in the Pernumeranten
(subscribers) database I created. There are over 2,300 names extracted
from nearly 100 Seforim (relgious books). As always - thank you to
Jewishgen for being our sponsor and to Marc Polster our webmaster.

<http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary> Click on "Data" found under the heading
"Information" (found on left hand side top of page).

Louis Schonfeld

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Mukachevo/Munkacs database #general

Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
 

Those of you who have any interest or connection to the town of
Mukachevo/Munkacs, Ukraine/Hungary may be interested in the Pernumeranten
(subscribers) database I created. There are over 2,300 names extracted
from nearly 100 Seforim (relgious books). As always - thank you to
Jewishgen for being our sponsor and to Marc Polster our webmaster.

<http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary> Click on "Data" found under the heading
"Information" (found on left hand side top of page).

Louis Schonfeld

Re: Phonecalls - a word of warning #general

Adelle Gloger
 

Dear Group,

Paul Reuben posted a message concerning telephoning (cold) people who
have the same last name, and being greeted with less than "open arms."
In fact, for the most part, he suffered verbal abuse. This is not good
for ones mental health.

There have been, in the past, discussions about first contacts by phone
versus letter. I for one have always preferred to send a letter (even to
a family member where there has been a lapse in contact for years)
explaining my purpose and giving some sketchy family background.
I include my phone #, e-mail address and postal address. I usually wait
a couple of weeks and then call them if they have not responded.

This method saves a lot of hurt and heartache. A letter serves to
introduce you, so that when you do phone they know what you are all
about. They know that it is not a "crank" call.

I believe that if you send a letter first, a phone call will not be met
with hostility.

Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Phonecalls - a word of warning #general

Adelle Gloger
 

Dear Group,

Paul Reuben posted a message concerning telephoning (cold) people who
have the same last name, and being greeted with less than "open arms."
In fact, for the most part, he suffered verbal abuse. This is not good
for ones mental health.

There have been, in the past, discussions about first contacts by phone
versus letter. I for one have always preferred to send a letter (even to
a family member where there has been a lapse in contact for years)
explaining my purpose and giving some sketchy family background.
I include my phone #, e-mail address and postal address. I usually wait
a couple of weeks and then call them if they have not responded.

This method saves a lot of hurt and heartache. A letter serves to
introduce you, so that when you do phone they know what you are all
about. They know that it is not a "crank" call.

I believe that if you send a letter first, a phone call will not be met
with hostility.

Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@...

Re: Phonecalls - a word of warning #general

E. Hunter <hushline@...>
 

"Paul Reuben" <PReuben@...> wrote:
.................................
All I can say is that if you are going to cold-call someone and ask
them things which I will admit, are quite strange, I would advise
caution. Unlike emailing phoning people is for some, too personal,
and many will see it as an invasion of privacy. I would also add,
and I mean this in the nicest possible way, that Americans are quite
direct and not afraid to say what they are thinking. >from my
perspective as the caller however, I found this `directness'
downright bloody rude and insensitive, and it ruffled me
to the point where I really don't relish the thought of phoning the
remaining three numbers.

Before technology there was the mail/the post! You might try sending
letters to the remaining people on your list, enclosing return postage
to encourage those who have no connection to your family to at least
inform you of that. This will give people some time to validate,
consider, recall, discuss, and decide. The issue of personal privacy
currently looms very large here in the U.S.

Best of luck in your search --

E. Hunter
reply to hushline@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Phonecalls - a word of warning #general

E. Hunter <hushline@...>
 

"Paul Reuben" <PReuben@...> wrote:
.................................
All I can say is that if you are going to cold-call someone and ask
them things which I will admit, are quite strange, I would advise
caution. Unlike emailing phoning people is for some, too personal,
and many will see it as an invasion of privacy. I would also add,
and I mean this in the nicest possible way, that Americans are quite
direct and not afraid to say what they are thinking. >from my
perspective as the caller however, I found this `directness'
downright bloody rude and insensitive, and it ruffled me
to the point where I really don't relish the thought of phoning the
remaining three numbers.

Before technology there was the mail/the post! You might try sending
letters to the remaining people on your list, enclosing return postage
to encourage those who have no connection to your family to at least
inform you of that. This will give people some time to validate,
consider, recall, discuss, and decide. The issue of personal privacy
currently looms very large here in the U.S.

Best of luck in your search --

E. Hunter
reply to hushline@...

Looking for a HeadStone or Need a Photo #general

Yedinitz@...
 

I realize these messages are not supposed to send a reader to a dot com
site but this may be an exception.

Anyhow, Steven Jacobs recently posted a request asking how to get to read
a headstone at a NYC Staten Island cemetery when he can not get there. I
replied personnaly that he possibly visit www.headstonehunter.com.

It is a site where you post stones you want found or photographed and
where hunters will pick up your request if there are nearby or going to
be there anyway. Usually these hunters are either other genealogists or
people whose hobby is cemeteries or stones.

Just an idea that may help out,

Eric Schwartzman

Researching:
Schwartzman >from Yedintsy/Yedinitz Bessarabia (Edinet, Moldova)
Price (Preiss) >from Rohatyn, Galicia (Poland)
Polack >from Hamburg Germany
Zink, Widder >from Hungary

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for a HeadStone or Need a Photo #general

Yedinitz@...
 

I realize these messages are not supposed to send a reader to a dot com
site but this may be an exception.

Anyhow, Steven Jacobs recently posted a request asking how to get to read
a headstone at a NYC Staten Island cemetery when he can not get there. I
replied personnaly that he possibly visit www.headstonehunter.com.

It is a site where you post stones you want found or photographed and
where hunters will pick up your request if there are nearby or going to
be there anyway. Usually these hunters are either other genealogists or
people whose hobby is cemeteries or stones.

Just an idea that may help out,

Eric Schwartzman

Researching:
Schwartzman >from Yedintsy/Yedinitz Bessarabia (Edinet, Moldova)
Price (Preiss) >from Rohatyn, Galicia (Poland)
Polack >from Hamburg Germany
Zink, Widder >from Hungary

Selma BERMAN - Austria #general

Randsboxer@...
 

Good Evening - I have copy of Social Security application for Selma
Berman (Sura Reiner) >from Austria. She doesn't belong to my family.
If application would help you please respond privately and I will
mail it to you.

Rose Boxer
Ocala, FL

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Selma BERMAN - Austria #general

Randsboxer@...
 

Good Evening - I have copy of Social Security application for Selma
Berman (Sura Reiner) >from Austria. She doesn't belong to my family.
If application would help you please respond privately and I will
mail it to you.

Rose Boxer
Ocala, FL

Re: US District Court - Brooklyn Naturalization Paper #general

David Cooper <dcooper@...>
 

I believe what you meant you got was the "Declaration of Intent" and the
"Petition for Naturalization". You got what you asked for (and what you
really want) as these are the naturalization papers.

David

FEntin2385@... says...

I called the Bronx District court for my Father's Papers and I sent
them a check with the info I had and they sent it to me. I'm in
California and I got the Petition and Declaration of Independence.
They don't send the copy of the Naturalization Paper. What they sent
was full of info I never knew of.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: US District Court - Brooklyn Naturalization Paper #general

David Cooper <dcooper@...>
 

I believe what you meant you got was the "Declaration of Intent" and the
"Petition for Naturalization". You got what you asked for (and what you
really want) as these are the naturalization papers.

David

FEntin2385@... says...

I called the Bronx District court for my Father's Papers and I sent
them a check with the info I had and they sent it to me. I'm in
California and I got the Petition and Declaration of Independence.
They don't send the copy of the Naturalization Paper. What they sent
was full of info I never knew of.

Re: lodz digest: August 18, 2000 #lodz #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

In a message dated 8/19/00 12:15:30 AM, lodz@... writes:

<< info.london2001@... >>

What about records >from Liverpool where many of our ancestors stopped off for
various periods of time on their way to the new world?

Fay Bussgang

Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Re: lodz digest: August 18, 2000 #lodz #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

In a message dated 8/19/00 12:15:30 AM, lodz@... writes:

<< info.london2001@... >>

What about records >from Liverpool where many of our ancestors stopped off for
various periods of time on their way to the new world?

Fay Bussgang