Date   

Bessarabian/Romanian brothers who share name, nephew shares another uncle's name #general

BarbKrauss@...
 

Dear JewishGenners,
Some name puzzles:
My paternal grandfather's younger brother c. 1959-63 gave me a sort of
xerox copy of an old, short biography of their father (Israel Baruch born in
1853) showing the names of Israel Baruch's 4 siblings as well as the names
and birthdates of the 2 children who survived (i.e., my grandfather DAVID and
my great-uncle).
My g-grandfather, his 2nd wife, and his 2 sons arrived in NYC on Mar 17,
1888, stayed there about 2 weeks before going to Wisc.
This biography mentions that my g-grandfather had 3 older brothers & 1
sister:--all born in Bessarabia. 2 died in Bessarabia (names not important
here). The other 2 immigrated to the USA where they died and were buried:
David in Woodbine, NJ; Israel in Philadelphia, PA.
As you can see, there is an older brother called "Israel" and a younger
brother, i.e., my great-grandfather whose true name was "Israel Baruch." I
don't know how close the brothers were, but after his 2nd wife died, my
g-grandfather married a woman >from Philadelphia, PA, where his brother (had)
lived.
Then there are 2 Davids: my grandfather called"David Louis" in this
country and his uncle "David," another older brother of his father who may
have survived at least until the founding of the Woodbins, NJ colony.
1. Would Bessarabian/Romanian Jews consider "Israel" to be a name
distinct >from "Israel Baruch"? Would they consider "David Louis" to be
distinct >from David?
Or did they allow children to be named after living relatives?
By the way, according to this biography, my great-grandfather studied to
be a rabbi until ill health forced him to stop the course, so I'm reasonably
sure that he was somewhat religious (if that's important in name giving.)
TIA.
Barbara Krauss - Portage MI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Bessarabian/Romanian brothers who share name, nephew shares another uncle's name #general

BarbKrauss@...
 

Dear JewishGenners,
Some name puzzles:
My paternal grandfather's younger brother c. 1959-63 gave me a sort of
xerox copy of an old, short biography of their father (Israel Baruch born in
1853) showing the names of Israel Baruch's 4 siblings as well as the names
and birthdates of the 2 children who survived (i.e., my grandfather DAVID and
my great-uncle).
My g-grandfather, his 2nd wife, and his 2 sons arrived in NYC on Mar 17,
1888, stayed there about 2 weeks before going to Wisc.
This biography mentions that my g-grandfather had 3 older brothers & 1
sister:--all born in Bessarabia. 2 died in Bessarabia (names not important
here). The other 2 immigrated to the USA where they died and were buried:
David in Woodbine, NJ; Israel in Philadelphia, PA.
As you can see, there is an older brother called "Israel" and a younger
brother, i.e., my great-grandfather whose true name was "Israel Baruch." I
don't know how close the brothers were, but after his 2nd wife died, my
g-grandfather married a woman >from Philadelphia, PA, where his brother (had)
lived.
Then there are 2 Davids: my grandfather called"David Louis" in this
country and his uncle "David," another older brother of his father who may
have survived at least until the founding of the Woodbins, NJ colony.
1. Would Bessarabian/Romanian Jews consider "Israel" to be a name
distinct >from "Israel Baruch"? Would they consider "David Louis" to be
distinct >from David?
Or did they allow children to be named after living relatives?
By the way, according to this biography, my great-grandfather studied to
be a rabbi until ill health forced him to stop the course, so I'm reasonably
sure that he was somewhat religious (if that's important in name giving.)
TIA.
Barbara Krauss - Portage MI


Re: possible errors on tombstones #belarus

Adarelanab@...
 

Laureen Glicklin Sussman asks about grandparents not being buried next
to spouses. In the event of multiple marriages, halacha demands that
burial be next to the last spouse. While that rule is often overlooked
even in Israel, that can be the reason for some strange burial findings.

Adar Belinkoff
Claremont, CA

Researching: BELINKOFF >from Gomel, Israel, Youngstown and Los Angeles;
CHARNAK >from Gomel, Ukraine, Youngstown and Philadelphia; MAGIDSON >from Gomel, Youngstown and New York; KLEINERT or Klein >from Gomel(?); PINTCHUK >from Tomaszov Mazieowecki, Youngstown & Cleveland; NUMBERG >from Lomza and Chicago; GOLDER (GOLDFARB) >from Ostrolenka and Chicago.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: possible errors on tombstones #belarus

Adarelanab@...
 

Laureen Glicklin Sussman asks about grandparents not being buried next
to spouses. In the event of multiple marriages, halacha demands that
burial be next to the last spouse. While that rule is often overlooked
even in Israel, that can be the reason for some strange burial findings.

Adar Belinkoff
Claremont, CA

Researching: BELINKOFF >from Gomel, Israel, Youngstown and Los Angeles;
CHARNAK >from Gomel, Ukraine, Youngstown and Philadelphia; MAGIDSON >from Gomel, Youngstown and New York; KLEINERT or Klein >from Gomel(?); PINTCHUK >from Tomaszov Mazieowecki, Youngstown & Cleveland; NUMBERG >from Lomza and Chicago; GOLDER (GOLDFARB) >from Ostrolenka and Chicago.


Happy 5762 #galicia

Beverly <bev7@...>
 

To all participants in the Galicia discussion group,
A Happy and Healthy New Year
"L'shanna Tova Tikateivu"
(May you be inscribed in the Book of Life)

Beverly Shulster
Moderator on Duty


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Happy 5762 #galicia

Beverly <bev7@...>
 

To all participants in the Galicia discussion group,
A Happy and Healthy New Year
"L'shanna Tova Tikateivu"
(May you be inscribed in the Book of Life)

Beverly Shulster
Moderator on Duty


Happy New Year #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

I would like to wish all the members of the Group Shana Tova and may you
and all your family be well in the coming year. Thank you for the messages
posted to the newsgroup throughout the year
and for being part of Latvia SIG.
Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG


chudnov, atownlet beetween berdichev and Zhitomer #ukraine

Malkadog@...
 

I hope I am sending this to the right spot. I am a brand new sig member
with
a special interest in Chudnov which is a smal townlet between Zhitomer
and
Berdichev.I am tracking my family that came >from Chudnov ukraine in 1906 to
Philadelphia. I understand that there was a group of people who went to
Chudnov >from USA not long ago. I would very much appreciate it if you could
put me in touch with the group.A cousin will be in Chudnov on Novemeber17 and
18 and it would be a big help to have some previous knowledge. Thank you
very much for all of the work that you have put into this project.

My grandparents, of blessed memory ,were born there around
1888.
His name was Pinney Braverman and my grandmother was Shifra Weinstein
braverman. Her mother's maiden name was Turnoff and cousins in the town
had
the family name of Pivivov. My grandfather's father owned a brewery and
my
grandmother's family sold crockery.

Marilyn Steiner


Latvia SIG #Latvia Happy New Year #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

I would like to wish all the members of the Group Shana Tova and may you
and all your family be well in the coming year. Thank you for the messages
posted to the newsgroup throughout the year
and for being part of Latvia SIG.
Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Fwd: chudnov, atownlet beetween berdichev and Zhitomer #ukraine

Malkadog@...
 

I hope I am sending this to the right spot. I am a brand new sig member
with
a special interest in Chudnov which is a smal townlet between Zhitomer
and
Berdichev.I am tracking my family that came >from Chudnov ukraine in 1906 to
Philadelphia. I understand that there was a group of people who went to
Chudnov >from USA not long ago. I would very much appreciate it if you could
put me in touch with the group.A cousin will be in Chudnov on Novemeber17 and
18 and it would be a big help to have some previous knowledge. Thank you
very much for all of the work that you have put into this project.

My grandparents, of blessed memory ,were born there around
1888.
His name was Pinney Braverman and my grandmother was Shifra Weinstein
braverman. Her mother's maiden name was Turnoff and cousins in the town
had
the family name of Pivivov. My grandfather's father owned a brewery and
my
grandmother's family sold crockery.

Marilyn Steiner


Re: Term "Marrano" #ukraine

Megan Cytron <megan@...>
 

This thread prompted me to look up the different terms:

Lexicon:
=======
Anusim = forced converts (Hebrew), preferred term
for descendants of Iberian converts
[pronounced ah-noo-sim']

Chueta = swine (Majorca), applied to Balearic New
Christians [derogatory]

Converso = convert (Spanish), applies to former
Jews and Moslems

Crypto-Jew = applies to converso or descendent who
practices Judaism in secret

Marrano = swine (Spanish), applied to Iberian New
Christians [derogatory]

Meshumad = apostate (Hebrew), applies to converts
by choice

New
Christian = Converso or descendent

Tinoq
Shenishba = captured child (Hebrew), legal term for
Jew raised as non-Jew

I found this information at:
http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~schalevy/sch/anusim.html -- a very interesting
site about Cryto-Judaism. To relate this back to Ukrainian Jews a bit, does
anyone know of any cases where Jews were ever encouraged (or forced) to
convert to Christianity in Russia and the Ukraine?

Megan Cytron
Washington, DC
megan@...

Volhynia
--------
TOWNS: Belogorodka, Shumsk, Lachervitz, Belgor'ye, Slavuta
SURNAMES: CYTRON, LEDERMAN, LERNER, SHANKER, KASFIR, GASMER
Kiev
----
TOWNS: Katerinopol, Zvenigorodka
NAMES: YABLONOFSKY, DREBIN, SHOPSATREIBA

-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary Henkin [mailto:propper@...]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 2:01 PM

Dear Michelle,
I'm 47, and hadn't heard the derogatory meaning of "marrano"
until you mentioned it. Perhaps the writer who previously used it had the same lack> of knowledge, with no "verbal abuse" intended.

I understood it to mean someone Jewish who'd converted to
Christianity in Spain in the 1400's-1500's... I was never taught there was a derogatory flavor to the word.
Regards,
Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Term "Marrano" #ukraine

Megan Cytron <megan@...>
 

This thread prompted me to look up the different terms:

Lexicon:
=======
Anusim = forced converts (Hebrew), preferred term
for descendants of Iberian converts
[pronounced ah-noo-sim']

Chueta = swine (Majorca), applied to Balearic New
Christians [derogatory]

Converso = convert (Spanish), applies to former
Jews and Moslems

Crypto-Jew = applies to converso or descendent who
practices Judaism in secret

Marrano = swine (Spanish), applied to Iberian New
Christians [derogatory]

Meshumad = apostate (Hebrew), applies to converts
by choice

New
Christian = Converso or descendent

Tinoq
Shenishba = captured child (Hebrew), legal term for
Jew raised as non-Jew

I found this information at:
http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~schalevy/sch/anusim.html -- a very interesting
site about Cryto-Judaism. To relate this back to Ukrainian Jews a bit, does
anyone know of any cases where Jews were ever encouraged (or forced) to
convert to Christianity in Russia and the Ukraine?

Megan Cytron
Washington, DC
megan@...

Volhynia
--------
TOWNS: Belogorodka, Shumsk, Lachervitz, Belgor'ye, Slavuta
SURNAMES: CYTRON, LEDERMAN, LERNER, SHANKER, KASFIR, GASMER
Kiev
----
TOWNS: Katerinopol, Zvenigorodka
NAMES: YABLONOFSKY, DREBIN, SHOPSATREIBA

-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary Henkin [mailto:propper@...]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 2:01 PM

Dear Michelle,
I'm 47, and hadn't heard the derogatory meaning of "marrano"
until you mentioned it. Perhaps the writer who previously used it had the same lack> of knowledge, with no "verbal abuse" intended.

I understood it to mean someone Jewish who'd converted to
Christianity in Spain in the 1400's-1500's... I was never taught there was a derogatory flavor to the word.
Regards,
Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia


Commercial Website Auctions of Genealogical Treasures #general

Andre10058@...
 

To my fellow JewishGenners:

As some of you may know, many items of sometimes extraordinary Jewish
genealogical interest are being auctioned on a daily basis at online
auction websites. Those items include not only a huge assortment of
Yizkor books, but also a variety of German war memorabilia that include
registration forms filled out by our ancestors.

For example, just yesterday two auctions ended that resulted in the sale
of "Nazi German SS Police Registration Forms." These forms, listed under
the auction site category of Collectibles: Militaria: WWII: Documents
were purported to have been used "in the Eastern territories, especially
within occupied Poland, to (sic) would allow the Nazi order police or SS
Einsatz groups to keep up to date and to know everyone's address
religious affiliation, preferred language, nationality, etc." The printed
forms, whose digital pictures appeared along with their descriptions on
the respective auction item pages, were labeled "Anmeldung zur
polizeilichen Einwohnerfassung".

The forms asked for a significant amount of information about each
registrant, including (but not limited to) name, present address, town
of birth, date of birth, religion, nationality ("volkszugeh=F6righeit"),
language spoken at home, profession, year moved into the area, whether or
not the registrant was the owner of property, and the number of children
under the age of 12 in the household.

After the form was submitted, it was stamped with the Reich's eagle and
swastika. The stamp reads, "Der Reichsfuhrer SS und Chef der Deutschen
Polizei....Einwohner Erfassung".

It is chilling to imagine the "special care" that may have been given to
registration forms whose preparers identified themselves as belonging to
the "juedische Volk".

In any case, in order that the registrant's information not be lost to
the world of JewishGen forever, and to aid those who may in the future
conduct searches for certain surnames, the two forms' registration
information is as follows:

Form # 1:

Given name: Pessa

Surname: Mordowicz Kuczynska (can't make out the blurred German
language instructions on the jpeg as to whether the maiden or married name
was to be listed first)

Birth Date: 24.V.1887

Place of Birth: Lecayea (not overly clear, could be something different)

Present Address: Brueckestrasse 4, Eichst=E4dt, in the vicinity of
Hartbreucken (Note: The form is printed in both German and Polish,
suggesting that the form was used in the occupied Polish territories.
Perhaps these German language town names were the Germans' versions of
Polish town names, just as Czestochowa was referred to as Chenstochau,
Krakow as Krakau, and Wielun as Wjelun.)

Date Moved to Present Address (actually, date living in present
"Reichsgebiet", or region): 1895

Religion: Jeudisch

Nationality: Jeudisch

Language spoken at home: Jeudisch

Profession: bei Manne ("by husband", which suggests that she was a
housewife)

Owner of a home: Yes

Children under 12: an "x" appears

Signed Pessa Mordowicz or Mordowitz


Form #2:

Given name: jpeg is blurry, could be Elemalich

Surname: Berkowicz

Birth Date: 18.XII.1894

Place of Birth: looks like Turek

Present Address: street address illegible on the jpeg, town of
Eichstaedt, in the vicinity of Hartbreucken (Note: The form is printed in
both German and Polish, suggesting that the form was used in the occupied
Polish territories. Perhaps these German language town names were the
Germans' versions of Polish town names, just as Czestochowa was referred
to as Chenstochau, Krakow as Krakau, and Wielun as Wjelun.)

Date Moved to Present Address (actually, date living in
present "Reichsgebiet", or region): 1921

Religion: Mosaisch

Nationality: Jeudisch

Language spoken at home: Jeudisch

Profession: Haendler

Owner of a home: no entry

Children under 12: no entry

Signed: jpeg is blurry, but signature looks like Berkowicz Elisabeth

My final thought on these registration forms, and other items in the
category of "German militaria" is this: might such documents be stored
somewhere in German archival repositories? If so, the genealogical
implications of finding large quantities of such documentation might be
extraordinarily significant.

Sincerely,
Andre Schilit
Boston, Massachusetts

Researching:
SZYLIT >from Dzialoszyn, Poland and nearby Lodz province towns/villages
KLEINER, FISZEL, GRUNBERG/GRYNBERG, DANZIGER, ROZENKER/ROSINGER, SZYLIT

from Bedzin, Poland


Name Changes #ukraine

David Goldman <davic@...>
 

Thanks to everyone for the input on name changes, but I was particularly
interested in the phenomenon of names changes occurring upon departure from
Ukraine that involved specifically changing a Russian-sounding last name to
a German-sounding one - at the end of the 19th cent/beginning of 20th.

David Goldman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Commercial Website Auctions of Genealogical Treasures #general

Andre10058@...
 

To my fellow JewishGenners:

As some of you may know, many items of sometimes extraordinary Jewish
genealogical interest are being auctioned on a daily basis at online
auction websites. Those items include not only a huge assortment of
Yizkor books, but also a variety of German war memorabilia that include
registration forms filled out by our ancestors.

For example, just yesterday two auctions ended that resulted in the sale
of "Nazi German SS Police Registration Forms." These forms, listed under
the auction site category of Collectibles: Militaria: WWII: Documents
were purported to have been used "in the Eastern territories, especially
within occupied Poland, to (sic) would allow the Nazi order police or SS
Einsatz groups to keep up to date and to know everyone's address
religious affiliation, preferred language, nationality, etc." The printed
forms, whose digital pictures appeared along with their descriptions on
the respective auction item pages, were labeled "Anmeldung zur
polizeilichen Einwohnerfassung".

The forms asked for a significant amount of information about each
registrant, including (but not limited to) name, present address, town
of birth, date of birth, religion, nationality ("volkszugeh=F6righeit"),
language spoken at home, profession, year moved into the area, whether or
not the registrant was the owner of property, and the number of children
under the age of 12 in the household.

After the form was submitted, it was stamped with the Reich's eagle and
swastika. The stamp reads, "Der Reichsfuhrer SS und Chef der Deutschen
Polizei....Einwohner Erfassung".

It is chilling to imagine the "special care" that may have been given to
registration forms whose preparers identified themselves as belonging to
the "juedische Volk".

In any case, in order that the registrant's information not be lost to
the world of JewishGen forever, and to aid those who may in the future
conduct searches for certain surnames, the two forms' registration
information is as follows:

Form # 1:

Given name: Pessa

Surname: Mordowicz Kuczynska (can't make out the blurred German
language instructions on the jpeg as to whether the maiden or married name
was to be listed first)

Birth Date: 24.V.1887

Place of Birth: Lecayea (not overly clear, could be something different)

Present Address: Brueckestrasse 4, Eichst=E4dt, in the vicinity of
Hartbreucken (Note: The form is printed in both German and Polish,
suggesting that the form was used in the occupied Polish territories.
Perhaps these German language town names were the Germans' versions of
Polish town names, just as Czestochowa was referred to as Chenstochau,
Krakow as Krakau, and Wielun as Wjelun.)

Date Moved to Present Address (actually, date living in present
"Reichsgebiet", or region): 1895

Religion: Jeudisch

Nationality: Jeudisch

Language spoken at home: Jeudisch

Profession: bei Manne ("by husband", which suggests that she was a
housewife)

Owner of a home: Yes

Children under 12: an "x" appears

Signed Pessa Mordowicz or Mordowitz


Form #2:

Given name: jpeg is blurry, could be Elemalich

Surname: Berkowicz

Birth Date: 18.XII.1894

Place of Birth: looks like Turek

Present Address: street address illegible on the jpeg, town of
Eichstaedt, in the vicinity of Hartbreucken (Note: The form is printed in
both German and Polish, suggesting that the form was used in the occupied
Polish territories. Perhaps these German language town names were the
Germans' versions of Polish town names, just as Czestochowa was referred
to as Chenstochau, Krakow as Krakau, and Wielun as Wjelun.)

Date Moved to Present Address (actually, date living in
present "Reichsgebiet", or region): 1921

Religion: Mosaisch

Nationality: Jeudisch

Language spoken at home: Jeudisch

Profession: Haendler

Owner of a home: no entry

Children under 12: no entry

Signed: jpeg is blurry, but signature looks like Berkowicz Elisabeth

My final thought on these registration forms, and other items in the
category of "German militaria" is this: might such documents be stored
somewhere in German archival repositories? If so, the genealogical
implications of finding large quantities of such documentation might be
extraordinarily significant.

Sincerely,
Andre Schilit
Boston, Massachusetts

Researching:
SZYLIT >from Dzialoszyn, Poland and nearby Lodz province towns/villages
KLEINER, FISZEL, GRUNBERG/GRYNBERG, DANZIGER, ROZENKER/ROSINGER, SZYLIT

from Bedzin, Poland


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Name Changes #ukraine

David Goldman <davic@...>
 

Thanks to everyone for the input on name changes, but I was particularly
interested in the phenomenon of names changes occurring upon departure from
Ukraine that involved specifically changing a Russian-sounding last name to
a German-sounding one - at the end of the 19th cent/beginning of 20th.

David Goldman


I'm off to Uman, Ukraine! #ukraine

David Goldman <davic@...>
 

I'm off to Uman, Ukraine this afternoon to spend Rosh Hashanah (Ukrainian:
Noviy Rik - New Year) with about 10,000 Breslover chassidim! I guess I'll
have a week's worth of Jewishgen and SIG digests when I return. I don't
switch myself to No Mail for the week because there may be stuff I want to
know about upon my return! My best wishes to everyone on this SIG, the
others and Jewishgen for a Happy Rosh Hashanah.

Regards,

David Goldman


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine I'm off to Uman, Ukraine! #ukraine

David Goldman <davic@...>
 

I'm off to Uman, Ukraine this afternoon to spend Rosh Hashanah (Ukrainian:
Noviy Rik - New Year) with about 10,000 Breslover chassidim! I guess I'll
have a week's worth of Jewishgen and SIG digests when I return. I don't
switch myself to No Mail for the week because there may be stuff I want to
know about upon my return! My best wishes to everyone on this SIG, the
others and Jewishgen for a Happy Rosh Hashanah.

Regards,

David Goldman


About surname Traiber #ukraine

Gabriel Coronel <gabo@...>
 

To whom it may concern:

My name is Gabriel Coronel Traiber; I am looking for information about
the
surname Traiber.
According to my family history knowledge, part of the family emigrate to
Argentina at the beginning of the twenty century >from a number of
villages in Ukraine (Inguletz,Shirokoye,Krivoy Rog) and >from the city of
Odessa. The other part of the family remains in Ukraine and later on
they emigrate to the U.S.

If you have any knowledge of the origins of your surname or the names of
the villages mentioned sounds familiar to you or your family relatives
you are invited to visit my website at:
http://members.tripod.com/~echa_muni/mipagina.html
Or contact me by email: gabo@...
<mailto:gabo@...>
I would be glad to hear >from you if the information presented is
relevant.

Thanks
Gabriel Coronel Traiber

Searching for the surnames: Coronel, Traiber, Propinski, Zaklis,
Zaklios, Bradichansky, Kurdover, Borovinsky, Drucaroff, Dobrusin,
Fernandez


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine About surname Traiber #ukraine

Gabriel Coronel <gabo@...>
 

To whom it may concern:

My name is Gabriel Coronel Traiber; I am looking for information about
the
surname Traiber.
According to my family history knowledge, part of the family emigrate to
Argentina at the beginning of the twenty century >from a number of
villages in Ukraine (Inguletz,Shirokoye,Krivoy Rog) and >from the city of
Odessa. The other part of the family remains in Ukraine and later on
they emigrate to the U.S.

If you have any knowledge of the origins of your surname or the names of
the villages mentioned sounds familiar to you or your family relatives
you are invited to visit my website at:
http://members.tripod.com/~echa_muni/mipagina.html
Or contact me by email: gabo@...
<mailto:gabo@...>
I would be glad to hear >from you if the information presented is
relevant.

Thanks
Gabriel Coronel Traiber

Searching for the surnames: Coronel, Traiber, Propinski, Zaklis,
Zaklios, Bradichansky, Kurdover, Borovinsky, Drucaroff, Dobrusin,
Fernandez