Date   

Re: Cousin/Cousin marriage #general

Harriet Ottenheimer
 

Cousin/Cousin marriage:

"Forbidden Relatives: The American Myth of Cousin Marriage" by Martin
Ottenheimer (University of Illinois Press) covers cousin marriage (and
the laws against it in the United States) in depth and detail.

--Harriet Joseph Ottenheimer.


Dan sheldan1955@bellsouth.net wrote:

How common would it be for relatives to marry? I know that marriage
between first cousins may be prohibited by many states, but I've
heard of first cousin marriages and it is not necessarily prohibited
in Judaism. In general, what is the situation when cousins (not
necessarily first) marry?
SNIP
Does anyone have ideas about this?

Sheldon Dan
sheldan1955@bellsouth.net


Re: Cousin/Cousin and Uncle/Niece Marriages #general

audiobiographies4u@...
 

Agree to all the above responses, and even though many states still allow
consanguineous marriages today, it is generally fell out of practice after the
first immigrating Jews at the turn of the 20th century.

In addition to Halachic law, other reasons why 1st cousin marriages were
considered practical was the assurance that the marriage would be more viable
because the couple had shared values and the in-laws (Machatunim) would get
along better.

BTW, many other ethnic groups practice 1st cousin marriages,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage


Zei Gezunt
Andy "Avi" Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
arosen2@cox.net

Researching the shtetl of Jezierna and surnames: CHARAP, TEICHOLZ, NAGELBERG,
BARAD, JAFFE, EIDEL, HIRSCHORN, STEINKRITZ, ROSENBLATT, YEAGER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Cousin/Cousin marriage #general

Harriet Ottenheimer
 

Cousin/Cousin marriage:

"Forbidden Relatives: The American Myth of Cousin Marriage" by Martin
Ottenheimer (University of Illinois Press) covers cousin marriage (and
the laws against it in the United States) in depth and detail.

--Harriet Joseph Ottenheimer.


Dan sheldan1955@bellsouth.net wrote:

How common would it be for relatives to marry? I know that marriage
between first cousins may be prohibited by many states, but I've
heard of first cousin marriages and it is not necessarily prohibited
in Judaism. In general, what is the situation when cousins (not
necessarily first) marry?
SNIP
Does anyone have ideas about this?

Sheldon Dan
sheldan1955@bellsouth.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Cousin/Cousin and Uncle/Niece Marriages #general

audiobiographies4u@...
 

Agree to all the above responses, and even though many states still allow
consanguineous marriages today, it is generally fell out of practice after the
first immigrating Jews at the turn of the 20th century.

In addition to Halachic law, other reasons why 1st cousin marriages were
considered practical was the assurance that the marriage would be more viable
because the couple had shared values and the in-laws (Machatunim) would get
along better.

BTW, many other ethnic groups practice 1st cousin marriages,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage


Zei Gezunt
Andy "Avi" Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
arosen2@cox.net

Researching the shtetl of Jezierna and surnames: CHARAP, TEICHOLZ, NAGELBERG,
BARAD, JAFFE, EIDEL, HIRSCHORN, STEINKRITZ, ROSENBLATT, YEAGER


Family of Jack Frankel of Deerfield Beach FL. #rabbinic

Neil@...
 

Jack was the son of Sender Frankel, son of the Rabbi Alter Ari Leib
Frankel of Gliniany. I am trying to traces descendants who may still
live in USA or Israel.

--
Neil Rosenstein

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Family of Jack Frankel of Deerfield Beach FL. #rabbinic

Neil@...
 

Jack was the son of Sender Frankel, son of the Rabbi Alter Ari Leib
Frankel of Gliniany. I am trying to traces descendants who may still
live in USA or Israel.

--
Neil Rosenstein

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


FRIEDMAN Family in Latvia #latvia

Leslie Kelman <les.kelman43@...>
 

I would like to connect with descendants of my gg grandmother Rebecca
FRIEDMAN, born about 1842.

Rebecca married a Jerucham (or Jeremiah) Meck or Mack (sounds like)

In the 1890's Rebecca, a widow by then, came to the UK, along with her
6 adult children. They did not all arrive in the same year. She
settled in Glasgow, and married a Harris Spilg. She died in 1917

Rebecca's sister Breindel (Bertha) Friedman came to the UK earlier
than Rebecca and married Israel (John) Morris in Sunderland in 1876.
They lived in Inverness, and Breindel died in Glasgow in 1935. Her
death record notes her parents as Jacob and Rachel Friedman

I am pretty certain that the family came >from Latvia, either the Riga
or Jaunjelgava areas

The six children were:

Annie, born about 1867

Sarah, born about 1874

Simon, born about 1875

Jacob, born about 1877

Sophie, born about 1881

Ettie, born about 1883

All 6 children married in the UK and eventually died in the UK, 5 in
Scotland and 1 in England.

I have many documents >from their time in the UK (marriage, death,
census), as well as some photographs. But I am finding nothing when
searching through Latvian data.

Has anyone a connection to this family?

Thanks

Leslie Kelman

Searching: WOLFSON (Latvia) MECK (Latvia) MARCUSON (Lithuania)
Kelmansky (Ukraine) WEINERMAN (Ukraine) TUZMAN (Ukraine)


Latvia SIG #Latvia FRIEDMAN Family in Latvia #latvia

Leslie Kelman <les.kelman43@...>
 

I would like to connect with descendants of my gg grandmother Rebecca
FRIEDMAN, born about 1842.

Rebecca married a Jerucham (or Jeremiah) Meck or Mack (sounds like)

In the 1890's Rebecca, a widow by then, came to the UK, along with her
6 adult children. They did not all arrive in the same year. She
settled in Glasgow, and married a Harris Spilg. She died in 1917

Rebecca's sister Breindel (Bertha) Friedman came to the UK earlier
than Rebecca and married Israel (John) Morris in Sunderland in 1876.
They lived in Inverness, and Breindel died in Glasgow in 1935. Her
death record notes her parents as Jacob and Rachel Friedman

I am pretty certain that the family came >from Latvia, either the Riga
or Jaunjelgava areas

The six children were:

Annie, born about 1867

Sarah, born about 1874

Simon, born about 1875

Jacob, born about 1877

Sophie, born about 1881

Ettie, born about 1883

All 6 children married in the UK and eventually died in the UK, 5 in
Scotland and 1 in England.

I have many documents >from their time in the UK (marriage, death,
census), as well as some photographs. But I am finding nothing when
searching through Latvian data.

Has anyone a connection to this family?

Thanks

Leslie Kelman

Searching: WOLFSON (Latvia) MECK (Latvia) MARCUSON (Lithuania)
Kelmansky (Ukraine) WEINERMAN (Ukraine) TUZMAN (Ukraine)


Re: Trying to decipher Hungarian town "Zisgand" #hungary

tom
 

offhand, it's hard to guess what it might be, but (abauj)szanto does not=
sound likely. there were parts of hungary where the jews spoke yiddish,=
but for the most part, i think they would have used the common hungarian=
place names, especially in official, american, documents.

your best bet is to find the ship's manifest, which should list place of=
birth, and address of next of kin in the old country, so you get 2 chances.=
and make sure you look at the scanned image, because some transcribers are=
less than perfect.

the next step is to try different "fragments" of the name in the online=
gazetteer at bogardi.com, which will pull up all the place names containing=
"gan", for example. (my spidey-sense is telling me that "gand" is a less=
likely sound in hungarian than "gany", and the stroke over it may a=
diacritic over the "a", rather than the upstroke of a "d".)

yammv.


=2E...... tom klein, toronto


nancyjbateman@gmail.com wrote:

My MGGM, Pauline Levy, was born in a town listed as Zisgand, Hungary
on her US passport application in 1928. I tried various resources on
jewishgen to determine the actual name of this place, but nothing
seems to be a close match. I have no other information about her
birthplace. It occurred to me that Zisgand might be an "English"
rendition of a Yiddish place name. Then I found Abaujszanto, Hungary;
the Yiddish for this name is =D7*=D7=EA=F7=B0=D7 =D7=F2=D7=A2, which,=
according to google
translate, is Sant. As I don't know either Hungarian or Yiddish, I
can't tell if I am off base here or onto something.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Trying to decipher Hungarian town "Zisgand" #hungary

tom
 

offhand, it's hard to guess what it might be, but (abauj)szanto does not=
sound likely. there were parts of hungary where the jews spoke yiddish,=
but for the most part, i think they would have used the common hungarian=
place names, especially in official, american, documents.

your best bet is to find the ship's manifest, which should list place of=
birth, and address of next of kin in the old country, so you get 2 chances.=
and make sure you look at the scanned image, because some transcribers are=
less than perfect.

the next step is to try different "fragments" of the name in the online=
gazetteer at bogardi.com, which will pull up all the place names containing=
"gan", for example. (my spidey-sense is telling me that "gand" is a less=
likely sound in hungarian than "gany", and the stroke over it may a=
diacritic over the "a", rather than the upstroke of a "d".)

yammv.


=2E...... tom klein, toronto


nancyjbateman@gmail.com wrote:

My MGGM, Pauline Levy, was born in a town listed as Zisgand, Hungary
on her US passport application in 1928. I tried various resources on
jewishgen to determine the actual name of this place, but nothing
seems to be a close match. I have no other information about her
birthplace. It occurred to me that Zisgand might be an "English"
rendition of a Yiddish place name. Then I found Abaujszanto, Hungary;
the Yiddish for this name is =D7*=D7=EA=F7=B0=D7 =D7=F2=D7=A2, which,=
according to google
translate, is Sant. As I don't know either Hungarian or Yiddish, I
can't tell if I am off base here or onto something.


Assistance in finding sources / more information - Death of a young child in Berlin, family from Danzig #germany

Tamar Amit <ta.genealogy@...>
 

Hi,

I hope to find assistance to locate sources of information re this new
discovery:

My gt-grandparents along with their 13 living children moved from
Tuchel/Tuchola to Danzig/Gdansk somewhere between 1918 and 1919.
My gt-grandfather, Gustav BECKER, was one of 5 authorized kosher
butchers in Danzig as I found out >from the Rabbinate's correspondence
now in Jerusalem.
A week ago, I found the death registration of one of the youngest
children (Elsa-Esther) in March 1920, Danzig. In it, it states that
she died in Berlin and the body was transferred to Danzig. She was 3
years and 11 months old at death.

I ** assuje** she was in Berlin along with her mother Rosa-Rachel BECKER
nee LEVY to get better medical assistance as I do not know of any
family members there at the time and it is a long way >from Tuchel or
Danzig.

Where can I find additional information to support or refute this?
Where would they have stayed? Was there a Jewish children's hospital?

Tamar Amit - ta.genealogy@gmail.com

PS - following is the link to the death registrations 1st relevant
page (#1423, 7th line on page).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9L1-Q9VG-W?i=84&cat=219973
- image 85.
The recto page (with the body transfer info) is image 166 on the
following link (7th line on page)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9L1-Q9VN-R


Notation on names Israel and Sara #germany

henry wellisch
 

I recently came across the birth entry in the Vienna Jewish records of
a woman who was born in Vienna, who moved in the 1920s to Germany and
emigrated in 1940 to the US. In her Vienna birth entry of 1903 there
is a notation dated June 6, 1939, which sates that she has now the
additional name of Sara. This additional name of Sara for women and
Israel for men was a Nazi law, and I well remember that in 1939 my
mother and I went to see a public notary in Vienna who stamped all our
documents.
My question is this. Was is customary in Germany for authorities to
inform the registrars in the former hometown of citizens about
important events such as a name change? Or was this another
antisemitic regulation?
I think in the Austro Hungarian empire and later in the Austrian
republic there was such a custom, but was this the case also in
Germany?

Henry Wellisch, Toronto wellisch12@gmail.com


German SIG #Germany Assistance in finding sources / more information - Death of a young child in Berlin, family from Danzig #germany

Tamar Amit <ta.genealogy@...>
 

Hi,

I hope to find assistance to locate sources of information re this new
discovery:

My gt-grandparents along with their 13 living children moved from
Tuchel/Tuchola to Danzig/Gdansk somewhere between 1918 and 1919.
My gt-grandfather, Gustav BECKER, was one of 5 authorized kosher
butchers in Danzig as I found out >from the Rabbinate's correspondence
now in Jerusalem.
A week ago, I found the death registration of one of the youngest
children (Elsa-Esther) in March 1920, Danzig. In it, it states that
she died in Berlin and the body was transferred to Danzig. She was 3
years and 11 months old at death.

I ** assuje** she was in Berlin along with her mother Rosa-Rachel BECKER
nee LEVY to get better medical assistance as I do not know of any
family members there at the time and it is a long way >from Tuchel or
Danzig.

Where can I find additional information to support or refute this?
Where would they have stayed? Was there a Jewish children's hospital?

Tamar Amit - ta.genealogy@gmail.com

PS - following is the link to the death registrations 1st relevant
page (#1423, 7th line on page).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9L1-Q9VG-W?i=84&cat=219973
- image 85.
The recto page (with the body transfer info) is image 166 on the
following link (7th line on page)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9L1-Q9VN-R


German SIG #Germany Notation on names Israel and Sara #germany

henry wellisch
 

I recently came across the birth entry in the Vienna Jewish records of
a woman who was born in Vienna, who moved in the 1920s to Germany and
emigrated in 1940 to the US. In her Vienna birth entry of 1903 there
is a notation dated June 6, 1939, which sates that she has now the
additional name of Sara. This additional name of Sara for women and
Israel for men was a Nazi law, and I well remember that in 1939 my
mother and I went to see a public notary in Vienna who stamped all our
documents.
My question is this. Was is customary in Germany for authorities to
inform the registrars in the former hometown of citizens about
important events such as a name change? Or was this another
antisemitic regulation?
I think in the Austro Hungarian empire and later in the Austrian
republic there was such a custom, but was this the case also in
Germany?

Henry Wellisch, Toronto wellisch12@gmail.com


Thanks for help (expatriates) + continued question #germany

jberlowitz <jberlowitz331@...>
 

Dear SIGgers,

I'd like to express my gratitude to Andreas Schwab, Fritz Neubauer,
Peter Lande, Renate Rosenau, Shulamit Spain-Gayer and Stephen Falk
for assistance in locating information about my relative,
Clara PHILIPSBORN, in the Hepp-Lehmann book, Die Ausbuergerung
deutscher Staatsangehoeriger 1933-45 nach den im Reichsanzeiger
veroeffentlichten Listen.

I would still like to know if and how German Jews living abroad before
the Nazis came to power maintained contact with the German government.

Judith Berlowitz, Oakland, California jberlowitz331@gmail.com

< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >
Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp


Re: ViewMate interpretation request - German (BLOCH, BLUMENTHAL) #germany

Deborah Blinder
 

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this request. I have all the
information I need. Your help is appreciated!

(Original link: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM58055)

Deborah Blankenberg (JewishGen ID #613395) Lodi, CA

< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >
Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp


German SIG #Germany Thanks for help (expatriates) + continued question #germany

jberlowitz <jberlowitz331@...>
 

Dear SIGgers,

I'd like to express my gratitude to Andreas Schwab, Fritz Neubauer,
Peter Lande, Renate Rosenau, Shulamit Spain-Gayer and Stephen Falk
for assistance in locating information about my relative,
Clara PHILIPSBORN, in the Hepp-Lehmann book, Die Ausbuergerung
deutscher Staatsangehoeriger 1933-45 nach den im Reichsanzeiger
veroeffentlichten Listen.

I would still like to know if and how German Jews living abroad before
the Nazis came to power maintained contact with the German government.

Judith Berlowitz, Oakland, California jberlowitz331@gmail.com

< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >
Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp


German SIG #Germany Re: ViewMate interpretation request - German (BLOCH, BLUMENTHAL) #germany

Deborah Blinder
 

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this request. I have all the
information I need. Your help is appreciated!

(Original link: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM58055)

Deborah Blankenberg (JewishGen ID #613395) Lodi, CA

< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >
Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp


Re: Cousin/Cousin and Uncle/Niece Marriages #general

Roger Lustig
 

a) Very common.

b) Almost unheard of.

Seriously: this sort of question requires a where and a when. There is
no "general situation."

Roger Lustig

Princeton, NJ USA

On 7/20/2017 9:57 PM, Sheldon Dan sheldan1955@bellsouth.net wrote:
How common would it be for relatives to marry? I know that marriage
between first cousins may be prohibited by many states, but I've
heard of first cousin marriages and it is not necessarily prohibited
in Judaism. In general, what is the situation when cousins (not
necessarily first) marry?

On the subject of relative marriages, I researched the SAX family I
discussed recently. I will have to do more research to prove that
the Saxes were originally LEVITANS (and in turn were related to my
SOLOMOVICH family). But according to my family's genealogist, there
may have been an uncle marrying his niece. Arieh SAX had eight
children. One of them was a daughter, Paulina SAX. She would have
been born about 1875 in Lithuania. In the 1900 U.S. Census, she is
listed as living in Stuntz, MN, married to Sam SAX. Their first
child, Marcus, is listed as 6 months old. (They would have two other
children, Ruth and Harry.)

Later, she is listed as Pauline Sax in the 1910 and 1920 Censuses.
Paulina and Sam lived in Chicago in 1910 and 1920. In 1930, they are
listed as living in Los Angeles. In 1940, Paulina is listed as a
widow, living in Los Angeles with her son Harry. She died in Los
Angeles in 1963.

Sam was probably born around 1874. Under U.S. Social Security
Applications and Claims, there is a Sam L. Sax, born in 1875 in
"Taukdggen, Soviet Union," which would be Tauroggen or Taurage,
Lithuania. I also found a Samuel Sax, listed in the California Death
Index, who died in Los Angeles in 1939. I think that these records
are probably accurate.

The family genealogist mentioned that some of the Sax relatives claim
that both Arieh and Sam Sax changed their names >from Levitan to Sax,
which may indicate the Levitan connection. If Sam was Paulina's
uncle, that means that Arieh and Sam were brothers. Since Sam and
Paulina were very close in age, this could account for the fact that
they might have been permitted to marry.

Does anyone have ideas about this?

Sheldon Dan
sheldan1955@bellsouth.net


Re: Cousin/Cousin and Uncle/Niece Marriages #general

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

It was extremely common. Jewish law permits cousin marriages as well as
uncle-niece unions. (However, Halacha forbids an aunt >from marrying a nephew.)

Keep in mind that Halacha teaches that we are to follow the law of the land.
So if one lives where cousin marriages are forbidden by law, it is incumbent
upon one to follow the civil law. Several states that prohibit cousin marriage
have passed laws exempting Jews >from those statutes. All I can recall at this
time are New York and Rhode Island.

My G GF married 3x, twice to cousin, and once to his niece. Our family has many
cousin marriages. In fact, the family elders tried their best to promote a
shidduch between me and 3 of my cousins. They knew the yicchus (pedigree) of
the family.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, Arizona

Sheldon Dan wrote:
How common would it be for relatives to marry? I know that marriage
between first cousins may be prohibited by many states, but I've
heard of first cousin marriages and it is not necessarily prohibited
in Judaism. In general, what is the situation when cousins (not
necessarily first) marry?
<SNIP>
But according to my family's genealogist, there
may have been an uncle marrying

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