1. main@groups.jewishgen.org
   Date   
Translations lack the full story #lithuania

Chaim freedman
 

I have been studying the Raseiniai 1816 Revision List, extracted >from the
Kaunas archive by the Raseiniai Uyezd Group. The classification of those
recorded into three classes does not come through in the translation. It has some significance for me.

The first entry is for "Kupetz 2nd Gildoi" (Merchant of the 2nd Guild) for
which there is only one entry, Shmuel Berov Bendet (well known in Raseiniai
lore as Rabbi Shmuel Hekhassid).

Then follows the largest group in size >from family #1-140 who are classifiedas "Meshchani" (Burghers, or city citizens).

The third group starts >from #141 under the title "Rukidelniki" which my
Russian aquaintences claim is an old word for "craftsmen".

My gggg-grandfather Berel Davidov Komisaruk appears under this group
together with his brother Leiba and son Zelman. Yet Berel's other brother
Velvel appears earlier under "meshchani".

This gives me an additional aspect of my family's activities even if
non-specific. Tradition tells of the family's activities as tax farmers and
rabbis, and this shows they had some source of income >from a craft. I hoped
to get some idea of the trades engaged in at the time, but Yad Vashem's
"Lita" article on Raseiniai does not have the details for 1816.

Interesting - shows the importance of studying the original and not relying
just on the English translation.


Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
email: chaimjan@zahav.net.il
Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Translations lack the full story #lithuania

Chaim freedman
 

I have been studying the Raseiniai 1816 Revision List, extracted >from the
Kaunas archive by the Raseiniai Uyezd Group. The classification of those
recorded into three classes does not come through in the translation. It has some significance for me.

The first entry is for "Kupetz 2nd Gildoi" (Merchant of the 2nd Guild) for
which there is only one entry, Shmuel Berov Bendet (well known in Raseiniai
lore as Rabbi Shmuel Hekhassid).

Then follows the largest group in size >from family #1-140 who are classifiedas "Meshchani" (Burghers, or city citizens).

The third group starts >from #141 under the title "Rukidelniki" which my
Russian aquaintences claim is an old word for "craftsmen".

My gggg-grandfather Berel Davidov Komisaruk appears under this group
together with his brother Leiba and son Zelman. Yet Berel's other brother
Velvel appears earlier under "meshchani".

This gives me an additional aspect of my family's activities even if
non-specific. Tradition tells of the family's activities as tax farmers and
rabbis, and this shows they had some source of income >from a craft. I hoped
to get some idea of the trades engaged in at the time, but Yad Vashem's
"Lita" article on Raseiniai does not have the details for 1816.

Interesting - shows the importance of studying the original and not relying
just on the English translation.


Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
email: chaimjan@zahav.net.il
Short viewmate VM2113 Polish Translation Requested #poland

NormK12065
 

This is a portion of a death record for Chaja Borencweig. I am pretty sure it says something like "daughter of Leybus >from Kazimierz and Sura a married couple nee Nazwiska (then a couple of words I can't make out) no longer living." My questions are 1. Is Kazimierz the given name of Leybus's father or the city he came >from (since the death occurred in Kazimierz)? 2. Is Nazwiska Sura's surname or does it mean no surname? 3. What are the words I can't translate?

Any help would be appreciated. The portion of the record can be viewed at:

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=2113

Please respond privately.

Thank you very much.

Norm Katz
Monroe Township, NJ
JRI Poland #Poland Short viewmate VM2113 Polish Translation Requested #poland

NormK12065
 

This is a portion of a death record for Chaja Borencweig. I am pretty sure it says something like "daughter of Leybus >from Kazimierz and Sura a married couple nee Nazwiska (then a couple of words I can't make out) no longer living." My questions are 1. Is Kazimierz the given name of Leybus's father or the city he came >from (since the death occurred in Kazimierz)? 2. Is Nazwiska Sura's surname or does it mean no surname? 3. What are the words I can't translate?

Any help would be appreciated. The portion of the record can be viewed at:

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=2113

Please respond privately.

Thank you very much.

Norm Katz
Monroe Township, NJ
"census books"- thanks #poland

SBSeales
 

My thanks to those who wrote to answer my question about Polish census books.

I now know that these were called "tenant registers", or "books of residents"...Ksiegi Ludnosci. They were used in Congress Poland.
Some have survived, and can be researched in the archives that contain records for those particular towns. Shtetlinks has some information for several shtetls for which books of residents have survived.

Sue Seales, North Carolina
JRI Poland #Poland "census books"- thanks #poland

SBSeales
 

My thanks to those who wrote to answer my question about Polish census books.

I now know that these were called "tenant registers", or "books of residents"...Ksiegi Ludnosci. They were used in Congress Poland.
Some have survived, and can be researched in the archives that contain records for those particular towns. Shtetlinks has some information for several shtetls for which books of residents have survived.

Sue Seales, North Carolina
Re: Polish "census books" (Czestochowa) #poland

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

I was very interested to read Pamela Weisberger's message to JRI-Poland
about the Czestochowa census pages. This is a hugely valuable resource for
anyone with family in the Czestochowa/Radomsko area. I would take a wild
guess and say that anyone who lived in Czestochowa between the 1890s and the 1920s is listed in these books--along with spouse, children, birth dates,birth places, and sometimes information like marriage dates and immigration.I have just spent the last few hours putting some samples on the web. Icollected these in Czestochowa in May of 2002:

http://www.kazez.com/~ben/0202.Czesto/Census.html

Dan
........................................................
Daniel Kazez <dkazez@wittenberg.edu>
Professor of Music / Wittenberg University / Springfield, Ohio USA
Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
SZEWCZYK, LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS,
MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ, SZWIMER, GUTMAN, PESACH
Poland: Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Janow-Plawno-Radomsko-Piotrkow-Zgierz-Lodz
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/englander/

Regarding the Polish "census books" you mention, I can only
speak for my experience in one town: Czestochowa. In the
Czestochowa Archives they still have the "Book of Residents"
which covers the years 1880-1930, and appears to have been
updated as people moved away, got married or died. These can
prove to be a goldmine of new information for any researcher!

Good luck!

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Just a reminder that this project by the tireless researcher Daniel Kazez is an independent one and not part of JRI-Poland.
JRI Poland #Poland Re: Polish "census books" (Czestochowa) #poland

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

I was very interested to read Pamela Weisberger's message to JRI-Poland
about the Czestochowa census pages. This is a hugely valuable resource for
anyone with family in the Czestochowa/Radomsko area. I would take a wild
guess and say that anyone who lived in Czestochowa between the 1890s and the 1920s is listed in these books--along with spouse, children, birth dates,birth places, and sometimes information like marriage dates and immigration.I have just spent the last few hours putting some samples on the web. Icollected these in Czestochowa in May of 2002:

http://www.kazez.com/~ben/0202.Czesto/Census.html

Dan
........................................................
Daniel Kazez <dkazez@wittenberg.edu>
Professor of Music / Wittenberg University / Springfield, Ohio USA
Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
SZEWCZYK, LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS,
MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ, SZWIMER, GUTMAN, PESACH
Poland: Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Janow-Plawno-Radomsko-Piotrkow-Zgierz-Lodz
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/englander/

Regarding the Polish "census books" you mention, I can only
speak for my experience in one town: Czestochowa. In the
Czestochowa Archives they still have the "Book of Residents"
which covers the years 1880-1930, and appears to have been
updated as people moved away, got married or died. These can
prove to be a goldmine of new information for any researcher!

Good luck!

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Just a reminder that this project by the tireless researcher Daniel Kazez is an independent one and not part of JRI-Poland.
News about Zdunska Wola #poland

Daniel Hanoch Wagner <Cpwagner@...>
 

Dear ZdunskaWolers around the world:

1. This is to inform you that the Pinkas HaKehillot Polin (volume 1)
translationfor the town of Zdunska Wola is now "live" at the below site. I wish to extend a warm thank you to Alex Korn for the excellent translation.

http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Pinkas_poland/Pol1_00111.html

2. The Zdunska Wola Israeli Committee will be meeting on February 19 and
further efforts to renovate the Jewish cemetery and update the tombstone
listing will be discussed. A protocole will be posted after the meeting so =
that you know what's happening.

Regards,
Daniel

H Daniel Wagner
The Livio Norzi Professorial Chair

Weizmann Institute of Science
Tel: +(972) 8 934 2594
Fax: +(972) 8 934 4137
E-mail: daniel.wagner@weizmann.ac.il
Homepage: http://www.weizmann.ac.il/wagner/home.htm
JRI Poland #Poland News about Zdunska Wola #poland

Daniel Hanoch Wagner <Cpwagner@...>
 

Dear ZdunskaWolers around the world:

1. This is to inform you that the Pinkas HaKehillot Polin (volume 1)
translationfor the town of Zdunska Wola is now "live" at the below site. I wish to extend a warm thank you to Alex Korn for the excellent translation.

http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Pinkas_poland/Pol1_00111.html

2. The Zdunska Wola Israeli Committee will be meeting on February 19 and
further efforts to renovate the Jewish cemetery and update the tombstone
listing will be discussed. A protocole will be posted after the meeting so =
that you know what's happening.

Regards,
Daniel

H Daniel Wagner
The Livio Norzi Professorial Chair

Weizmann Institute of Science
Tel: +(972) 8 934 2594
Fax: +(972) 8 934 4137
E-mail: daniel.wagner@weizmann.ac.il
Homepage: http://www.weizmann.ac.il/wagner/home.htm
General question about census and other records #lithuania

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

Does anyone have information about the circumstances ("field conditions") in
which this information was originally gathered and recorded? I am curious
about the sequence of each group of family names on the page, i.e. whether
that might give a rough indication of which families lived near each other
(e.g. in houses side by side) or whether townspeople had to "line up" to
answer the census-taker's questions. Also I've noticed within a given
family's list of names a kind of random mix in terms of family relationship:
my overly vivid imagination sees kids running in and out and a jumble of
daughters-in-law, siblings, etc. coming and going. Another oddity is that
sometimes there will be 20 or so listings in sequence for a single family
but a couple of pages later in the records, ONE sole member of that family
will show up. Could that person have returned to town the next day after
the rest of the family was recorded? It is interesting to speculate on just
how much we can learn by studying these original sources >from many different
vantage points.

Sonia Kovitz
Lithuania SIG #Lithuania General question about census and other records #lithuania

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

Does anyone have information about the circumstances ("field conditions") in
which this information was originally gathered and recorded? I am curious
about the sequence of each group of family names on the page, i.e. whether
that might give a rough indication of which families lived near each other
(e.g. in houses side by side) or whether townspeople had to "line up" to
answer the census-taker's questions. Also I've noticed within a given
family's list of names a kind of random mix in terms of family relationship:
my overly vivid imagination sees kids running in and out and a jumble of
daughters-in-law, siblings, etc. coming and going. Another oddity is that
sometimes there will be 20 or so listings in sequence for a single family
but a couple of pages later in the records, ONE sole member of that family
will show up. Could that person have returned to town the next day after
the rest of the family was recorded? It is interesting to speculate on just
how much we can learn by studying these original sources >from many different
vantage points.

Sonia Kovitz
Census books Budapest 1931 - 1946 #hungary

Eva Floersheim <evaflor@...>
 

Trying to help a friend (born 1936) learn more about himself and his family
in Budapest, I find that I do not know much about the bureacracy in Hungary.

Which office keeps which records and where are they located?

My friend has visited the city there six times already, but I suspect he has
not used all the possible resources available.

Here comes my first question:
Where can I find census lists or other information to show who lived in
Garay utca 32 in Budapest during the years 1931 - 1944?

Some background:
The parents of my friends (the father Mor Moshe Pollak was >from Seregelyes
and the mother Rozalia Rachel Brand was >from Tarnow) married in 1931 in
Tarnow, Poland.
They settled in Budapest.
In January 1936, while living in Garay utca 32 in the VII.
district,Budapest, the mother gave birth to a son, Gyorgi, in the hospital
in Szoevetseg utca 14, also in the VII. district.

Later my friend vaguely remembers an old woman in a bed, living in their
house, probably a grandmother.

After the Germans occupied Budapest, Mor Pollak was taken >from his home in
Garay utca 32, probably by the Iron Cross, and was never heard of again.
Gyorgi thinks it hapened in March 1944; I lean more to October - November
1944.

Towards the end of 1944, in November or December, Gyorgi and his stepmother
(name unknown, perhaps Janka) were forced into the ghetto.

Will there be any lists of residents in Garay utca 32 showing who lived
there and exactly when, covering the years 1931 - 1944?

A list of all residents will then include the neighbour Sandor Kuerschner
who:
a. was Gyorgi's SANDAK
b. was taken away on the same occassion as Gyorgi's father
c. probably died a few days after returning >from the war.(Testimony of Mrs
Femer Weisz, whose husband did not return).

Also, there was probably a neighbour named Diamant who, during the roundup
of the father in 1944, managed to escape while those caught were kept in the
inner courtyard of Garay utca 32.

Back to my question:

Can you give me names and addresses of official offices, perhaps for the
VII. district, or any other place in Budapest, that can help in this search?

Gyorgi has been to the Jewish community many times and that is where he
found his birth register.
We have already written to Tarnow for the parents' marriage certificate.

Thank you for your help.

Eva Floersheim
Shadmot Dvorah
Israel
Hungary SIG #Hungary Census books Budapest 1931 - 1946 #hungary

Eva Floersheim <evaflor@...>
 

Trying to help a friend (born 1936) learn more about himself and his family
in Budapest, I find that I do not know much about the bureacracy in Hungary.

Which office keeps which records and where are they located?

My friend has visited the city there six times already, but I suspect he has
not used all the possible resources available.

Here comes my first question:
Where can I find census lists or other information to show who lived in
Garay utca 32 in Budapest during the years 1931 - 1944?

Some background:
The parents of my friends (the father Mor Moshe Pollak was >from Seregelyes
and the mother Rozalia Rachel Brand was >from Tarnow) married in 1931 in
Tarnow, Poland.
They settled in Budapest.
In January 1936, while living in Garay utca 32 in the VII.
district,Budapest, the mother gave birth to a son, Gyorgi, in the hospital
in Szoevetseg utca 14, also in the VII. district.

Later my friend vaguely remembers an old woman in a bed, living in their
house, probably a grandmother.

After the Germans occupied Budapest, Mor Pollak was taken >from his home in
Garay utca 32, probably by the Iron Cross, and was never heard of again.
Gyorgi thinks it hapened in March 1944; I lean more to October - November
1944.

Towards the end of 1944, in November or December, Gyorgi and his stepmother
(name unknown, perhaps Janka) were forced into the ghetto.

Will there be any lists of residents in Garay utca 32 showing who lived
there and exactly when, covering the years 1931 - 1944?

A list of all residents will then include the neighbour Sandor Kuerschner
who:
a. was Gyorgi's SANDAK
b. was taken away on the same occassion as Gyorgi's father
c. probably died a few days after returning >from the war.(Testimony of Mrs
Femer Weisz, whose husband did not return).

Also, there was probably a neighbour named Diamant who, during the roundup
of the father in 1944, managed to escape while those caught were kept in the
inner courtyard of Garay utca 32.

Back to my question:

Can you give me names and addresses of official offices, perhaps for the
VII. district, or any other place in Budapest, that can help in this search?

Gyorgi has been to the Jewish community many times and that is where he
found his birth register.
We have already written to Tarnow for the parents' marriage certificate.

Thank you for your help.

Eva Floersheim
Shadmot Dvorah
Israel
Visit to Budapest and Gyomore in May #hungary

ewilson4@...
 

Dear List::

In May my husband Bob and I are going for a two week trip to Hungary.

While there we want to see if we can find out more about the Budapest (Pest,
district vii) FRIED family of one of my grandmothers or about the Gyomore
WINKLER family of my grandfather.

We've traced both families back to the early 1800s through microfilmed
records gotten through the Mormon FHC but hope that there might be earlier
records available in Hungary.

Would anyone know whether such records exist and if they are available? If
so could you tell us how to get access to them?

We would also appreciate any suggestions concerning books about Hungarian
Jewish history.

Thankfully,
Doris Wilson
Rochester NY
Hungary SIG #Hungary Visit to Budapest and Gyomore in May #hungary

ewilson4@...
 

Dear List::

In May my husband Bob and I are going for a two week trip to Hungary.

While there we want to see if we can find out more about the Budapest (Pest,
district vii) FRIED family of one of my grandmothers or about the Gyomore
WINKLER family of my grandfather.

We've traced both families back to the early 1800s through microfilmed
records gotten through the Mormon FHC but hope that there might be earlier
records available in Hungary.

Would anyone know whether such records exist and if they are available? If
so could you tell us how to get access to them?

We would also appreciate any suggestions concerning books about Hungarian
Jewish history.

Thankfully,
Doris Wilson
Rochester NY
Re: hungarian databases on jewishgen #hungary

GilaMiriam Chait <gilamiriamchait@...>
 

Better late than never, I have just had a quick look
through the list of occupations and can make one or
two suggestions.

azabasz must be szabasz, meaning tailor
szabo also means tailor
baromfi ternyeszto means poultry producer
favarozo must be fuvarozo=haulier
gombhuzo gomb means button, huzo
someone who pulls
gyerm abbreviation of gyermek
meaning child/minor
gyermak must be gyermek (see above)
igazgatotanito headteacher
hitokt abbreviation of hitoktato
=teacher of religion
maganzo self-employed (I think)

--- tom klein <h-sig@ecologicaltech.com> wrote: > i
was just looking through the holocaust databases
on jewishgen, and i happened upon the "hungarian
occupations" page at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/holocaust/HungarianOccupations.html>.

almost immediately, i noticed some of the "unable to
decipher" entries, such as "agyet.hallg", which
could be translated properly with relative ease.
("egyetemi halgato", for instance, is not much of a
stretch.)

this brings up 2 questions:

1) would some of our hungarian-speaking members care
to take a few minutes to scan these pages and
suggest some corrections?

2) how do we submit these corrections?



....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator: Please contact me if you're interested
in contributing to these databases.
Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: hungarian databases on jewishgen #hungary

GilaMiriam Chait <gilamiriamchait@...>
 

Better late than never, I have just had a quick look
through the list of occupations and can make one or
two suggestions.

azabasz must be szabasz, meaning tailor
szabo also means tailor
baromfi ternyeszto means poultry producer
favarozo must be fuvarozo=haulier
gombhuzo gomb means button, huzo
someone who pulls
gyerm abbreviation of gyermek
meaning child/minor
gyermak must be gyermek (see above)
igazgatotanito headteacher
hitokt abbreviation of hitoktato
=teacher of religion
maganzo self-employed (I think)

--- tom klein <h-sig@ecologicaltech.com> wrote: > i
was just looking through the holocaust databases
on jewishgen, and i happened upon the "hungarian
occupations" page at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/holocaust/HungarianOccupations.html>.

almost immediately, i noticed some of the "unable to
decipher" entries, such as "agyet.hallg", which
could be translated properly with relative ease.
("egyetemi halgato", for instance, is not much of a
stretch.)

this brings up 2 questions:

1) would some of our hungarian-speaking members care
to take a few minutes to scan these pages and
suggest some corrections?

2) how do we submit these corrections?



....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator: Please contact me if you're interested
in contributing to these databases.
Szombathely organisation #hungary

Jackie B <jakiib@...>
 

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>Does anyone know anything about an organisation formed in Szombathely in 1945 which helped Jewish Holocaust survivors wishing to make Aliyah? Apparently they gave hebrew lessons and general aide to any Jew. I am looking to find information on my grandmother - Jolan Libenau and Pishta/Steven Braun, who supposedly became her husband in Szombathely, through this organisation. Does anyone know anything about this or where I may find records?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jacqueline Budai</DIV>
<DIV>Sydney, Australia</DIV>
Hungary SIG #Hungary Szombathely organisation #hungary

Jackie B <jakiib@...>
 

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>Does anyone know anything about an organisation formed in Szombathely in 1945 which helped Jewish Holocaust survivors wishing to make Aliyah? Apparently they gave hebrew lessons and general aide to any Jew. I am looking to find information on my grandmother - Jolan Libenau and Pishta/Steven Braun, who supposedly became her husband in Szombathely, through this organisation. Does anyone know anything about this or where I may find records?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jacqueline Budai</DIV>
<DIV>Sydney, Australia</DIV>
449921 - 449940 of 657939