Date   

Re: Wrong fathers' names on tombstones #general

Fran Segall <FranSegall@...>
 

Michael,

Sorry to have been so confusing. My husband's grandfather was named
Morris. On Morris' death certificate, his father's name is listed as
Meyer. On Morris' tombstone the name is Moshe ben Meyer Leib haLevi.
The informant for both of these was likely Morris' son.

However, on Morris' marriage certificate, he lists his own father's name
as Abraham. That, I suspect, is more reliable since he is 29 years old
at the time and giving his own father's name.

That leaves me wondering why the whole family thinks that Morris'
father's name was Meyer rather than Abraham.

Hope I didn't confuse things further!

Fran

-----Original Message-----
From: MBernet@aol.com [mailto:MBernet@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:43 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Wrong fathers' names on tombstones

In a message dated 11/13/2004 12:29:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
FranSegall@comcast.net writes:

< My husband's ggrandfather's name, as per both his
grandfather's death certificate and tombstone is Meyer Leib. On his
grandfather's marriage certificate he gives his father's name as Abraham.
The fact that the death certificate and tombstone agree is no surprise since
the informant was probably the same. But how did they end up with Meyer from
Abraham??? >

==I may be a little confused about the various levels of ggf
here. It is possible that when an ancestor's name is no known, a man may
be termed Plone ben Avraham (Soandso, son of Abraham), Abraham being the "father"
of all Jews.
This is the general rule upon the conversion of a Ger (proselyte): he is called
to the Torah as [chosen name] ben Avraham.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Wrong fathers' names on tombstones #general

Fran Segall <FranSegall@...>
 

Michael,

Sorry to have been so confusing. My husband's grandfather was named
Morris. On Morris' death certificate, his father's name is listed as
Meyer. On Morris' tombstone the name is Moshe ben Meyer Leib haLevi.
The informant for both of these was likely Morris' son.

However, on Morris' marriage certificate, he lists his own father's name
as Abraham. That, I suspect, is more reliable since he is 29 years old
at the time and giving his own father's name.

That leaves me wondering why the whole family thinks that Morris'
father's name was Meyer rather than Abraham.

Hope I didn't confuse things further!

Fran

-----Original Message-----
From: MBernet@aol.com [mailto:MBernet@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:43 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Wrong fathers' names on tombstones

In a message dated 11/13/2004 12:29:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
FranSegall@comcast.net writes:

< My husband's ggrandfather's name, as per both his
grandfather's death certificate and tombstone is Meyer Leib. On his
grandfather's marriage certificate he gives his father's name as Abraham.
The fact that the death certificate and tombstone agree is no surprise since
the informant was probably the same. But how did they end up with Meyer from
Abraham??? >

==I may be a little confused about the various levels of ggf
here. It is possible that when an ancestor's name is no known, a man may
be termed Plone ben Avraham (Soandso, son of Abraham), Abraham being the "father"
of all Jews.
This is the general rule upon the conversion of a Ger (proselyte): he is called
to the Torah as [chosen name] ben Avraham.

Michael Bernet, New York


Some records are in Polish, or Russian or German #general

Barbara Zimmer <bravo.zulu@...>
 

I am sorry! I only meant that the records were in whatever the
language was of the area, but not in English, **Some** of my own
records are in Polish, and a few (including my grandmother's
passport >from Zloczow /Zolochev) are in German. I am sure there are
some in Russian, but I just don't have any of those.

Subject: Not all records >from Poland are in Polish
From: "Rose Feldman" < rosef@post.tau.ac.il >
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:34:02 +0200
X-Message-Number: 8

Sorry Barbara, but not so.
For part of the period that Poland was under Russian rule, even the
community ledgers of registration (what we see in the indexes) were in
Russian. Having ordered documents >from various periods of time, I have
receivede documents in Polish and documents in Russian.

Rose Feldman
GITNER, REZNIK Litin & Kalinovka Ukraine
EPSTEIN, BOYARKSY Ruzhany, Kossovo, Mscibow Belarus
TREPPER, TREPMAN, FELDMAN, LICHT, SOICHER, SLOVIK, SZPERBER, ORENSTEIN
Warsaw Poland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Some records are in Polish, or Russian or German #general

Barbara Zimmer <bravo.zulu@...>
 

I am sorry! I only meant that the records were in whatever the
language was of the area, but not in English, **Some** of my own
records are in Polish, and a few (including my grandmother's
passport >from Zloczow /Zolochev) are in German. I am sure there are
some in Russian, but I just don't have any of those.

Subject: Not all records >from Poland are in Polish
From: "Rose Feldman" < rosef@post.tau.ac.il >
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:34:02 +0200
X-Message-Number: 8

Sorry Barbara, but not so.
For part of the period that Poland was under Russian rule, even the
community ledgers of registration (what we see in the indexes) were in
Russian. Having ordered documents >from various periods of time, I have
receivede documents in Polish and documents in Russian.

Rose Feldman
GITNER, REZNIK Litin & Kalinovka Ukraine
EPSTEIN, BOYARKSY Ruzhany, Kossovo, Mscibow Belarus
TREPPER, TREPMAN, FELDMAN, LICHT, SOICHER, SLOVIK, SZPERBER, ORENSTEIN
Warsaw Poland


Re: objects "made in Russia" #lithuania

shop@...
 

"My great-grandparents came >from Mariampole in the late 1880s. Is there
any chance that an object with the inscription "made in Russia" came with
them, or is that inscription a more recent phenomenon? I have liked
thinking that the painted tray I inherited >from my Grandmother (their
daughter), made in Russia, might have come over with them."

It is my understanding that the designation "Made in ..." was a result of the
enactment of a US law and would normally be found on objects made for export to
the United States. Consider, why would anyone in Russia mark an object in
English unless they were planning to send it to an English speaking country?

In fact, the McKinley Tariff Act wasn't enacted until 1891, and it wasn't
until 1921 that the mark had to be in English. This was the point at which
"Nippon" became "Japan." I suspect your grandmother probably bought the tray
because it came >from her homeland and reminded her of it.

Steve Franklin
Baltimore
http://www.lordbalto.com


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: objects "made in Russia" #lithuania

shop@...
 

"My great-grandparents came >from Mariampole in the late 1880s. Is there
any chance that an object with the inscription "made in Russia" came with
them, or is that inscription a more recent phenomenon? I have liked
thinking that the painted tray I inherited >from my Grandmother (their
daughter), made in Russia, might have come over with them."

It is my understanding that the designation "Made in ..." was a result of the
enactment of a US law and would normally be found on objects made for export to
the United States. Consider, why would anyone in Russia mark an object in
English unless they were planning to send it to an English speaking country?

In fact, the McKinley Tariff Act wasn't enacted until 1891, and it wasn't
until 1921 that the mark had to be in English. This was the point at which
"Nippon" became "Japan." I suspect your grandmother probably bought the tray
because it came >from her homeland and reminded her of it.

Steve Franklin
Baltimore
http://www.lordbalto.com


Re: Warsaw Ghetto website in Polish - Searchable database #general

Carlos Glikson
 

Alexander Sharon replied to my message - simultaneously posted in
JewishGen's Discussion Group -, and authorized me to repeat his reply in
JRI-Poland. Here is more information regarding the website in Polish
containing different Warsaw Ghetto databases and information:

Carlos Glikson
-------------
Hi,

Thanks Carlos.
Let me try to provide a translated guide through the Warsaw Ghetto website:

"Carlos Glikson" < cglikson@ciudad.com.ar > wrote
There is a Warsaw Ghetto website in Polish, at
http://warszawa.getto.pl/pl/site/
In the main site on left hand there are four clickable picturials:

1. Miejsca - Locations
2. Ludzie - People (picture of the historian Dr. Emmanuel Ringelblum)
3. Zrodla - Sources
4. Plan Getta- Ghetto Map

Ad. 1 Locations

Alphabetically are listed streets within the Ghetto and by clicking on the
street name additional data is open.
Please note that only few streets are shown on this page. By clicking on the
word "wiecej" (more) additional hidden streets names will be visible.

By clicking for example on Mila Street there is a column that shows street
name (Mila) and the houses No.s on this street. Again there are more data on
for houses No.s hidden, please follow with page No.s. Lets now open one
address, for example Mila 18 (Leon Uris book title). Next to No. 18 click
on window "Pokaz' (show).

Upper windows say "Pokaz miejsce na mapie" (show place on the map). By
clicking on this window two maps will appear. Small map of the ghetto on the
rights show location of the street in relation to the ghetto and the larger
map on the left shows detailed ghetto map of the street and house No. 18.
This is a vectorial map and is movable, simultaneously small dot on the
general map will also move.

Next window on this page "Przejdz do wydarzen" provides descriptive text on
what has happened on this particular Mila 18 street

Ad 2. Ludzie People

Alphabetical list on many people is listed there. Again many names are
hidden. Please click on word 'wiecej' to open additional lists.
By clicking for example on the name Fajfer Sara the following information
will appear:

id 21101998082554000001
First Name Sara
Surname Fajfer
Sex F
Status rich
Biography Friend >from Pola Rotszyld groul
Source: Pola Rotszyld: "Relation 033/438; Archives of Yad Vashem"



Ad. 3 Zrodla - sources

Ad. 4 Ghetto map

Perhaps a Polish speaking member of the group may be so kind as to comment
on the basics of the website, and the types of searches - people, places,
events, advanced - included in

Perhaps Warszawa Research Group should contact site authors and initialize
discussion on translation this incredibly rich material into English

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Warsaw Ghetto website in Polish - Searchable database #poland

Carlos Glikson
 

Alexander Sharon replied to my message - simultaneously posted in
JewishGen's Discussion Group -, and authorized me to repeat his reply in
JRI-Poland. Here is more information regarding the website in Polish
containing different Warsaw Ghetto databases and information:

Carlos Glikson
-------------
Hi,

Thanks Carlos.
Let me try to provide a translated guide through the Warsaw Ghetto website:

"Carlos Glikson" < cglikson@ciudad.com.ar > wrote
There is a Warsaw Ghetto website in Polish, at
http://warszawa.getto.pl/pl/site/
In the main site on left hand there are four clickable picturials:

1. Miejsca - Locations
2. Ludzie - People (picture of the historian Dr. Emmanuel Ringelblum)
3. Zrodla - Sources
4. Plan Getta- Ghetto Map

Ad. 1 Locations

Alphabetically are listed streets within the Ghetto and by clicking on the
street name additional data is open.
Please note that only few streets are shown on this page. By clicking on the
word "wiecej" (more) additional hidden streets names will be visible.

By clicking for example on Mila Street there is a column that shows street
name (Mila) and the houses No.s on this street. Again there are more data on
for houses No.s hidden, please follow with page No.s. Lets now open one
address, for example Mila 18 (Leon Uris book title). Next to No. 18 click
on window "Pokaz' (show).

Upper windows say "Pokaz miejsce na mapie" (show place on the map). By
clicking on this window two maps will appear. Small map of the ghetto on the
rights show location of the street in relation to the ghetto and the larger
map on the left shows detailed ghetto map of the street and house No. 18.
This is a vectorial map and is movable, simultaneously small dot on the
general map will also move.

Next window on this page "Przejdz do wydarzen" provides descriptive text on
what has happened on this particular Mila 18 street

Ad 2. Ludzie People

Alphabetical list on many people is listed there. Again many names are
hidden. Please click on word 'wiecej' to open additional lists.
By clicking for example on the name Fajfer Sara the following information
will appear:

id 21101998082554000001
First Name Sara
Surname Fajfer
Sex F
Status rich
Biography Friend >from Pola Rotszyld groul
Source: Pola Rotszyld: "Relation 033/438; Archives of Yad Vashem"



Ad. 3 Zrodla - sources

Ad. 4 Ghetto map

Perhaps a Polish speaking member of the group may be so kind as to comment
on the basics of the website, and the types of searches - people, places,
events, advanced - included in

Perhaps Warszawa Research Group should contact site authors and initialize
discussion on translation this incredibly rich material into English

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


Shimsky/G'Berg/Chasan/Mussaf/Ratovetsky/Spector #poland

Steve Gabai <sgabai@...>
 

I haven't posted my info in a long time...

My great grandparents were Simon and Fanny GREENBERG, although GREENBERG may
not have been the name in Europe. Simon may have taken the name upon
immigrating to the US, I'm not sure. If so, the original name might have
been something like SHIMSKY.

Simon's parents were Alex/Eli and Faigel/Frances SHWARTZ. Fanny's parents
were Albert & Ida RATOVETSKY. Ida's maiden name was SILVER.

Simon and Fanny were born during the mid 1850s and married in the late
1870s.

Simon and Fanny had 4 children in Bialystok/Wasilkow and immigrated during
the 1890s and settled in Newark, NJ.

Simon and his sons were involved in the liquor business owning bars in
Newark. But around 1915, the family moved to New York City where they owned
and operated movie theaters.

Simon's (half?) sister, Emma, immigrated a few years before him. Her
husband was Joe KOSSOWSKY and they also lived in Newark. They had 5
daughters.

Simon had another sister, Sarah, who married Nisson PERLSTEIN, a Rabbi, >from
Janow (it was his 2nd marriage) and they had at least 5 children. Four of
the children immigrated to the US around 1895 and settled in NJ and NYC.
Sarah arrived in 1921 and died in 1935 while living in the Bronx.

CHASAN'S and SPECTOR'S - also >from Bialystok/Wasilkow - are also connected
to the GREENBERG'S.

I'm also interested in Meyer and Gussie MUSSAF that lived in Paterson, NJ.
They had two sons, George and Nathan. All were in the silk business.

Simon may have had family living in Brooklyn - the KRAVITZ'S, in
upholstery, and the COHEN's who were in plumbing supply. Although there is
a chance they were just friends >from Bialystok.

Steve Gabai


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Shimsky/G'Berg/Chasan/Mussaf/Ratovetsky/Spector #poland

Steve Gabai <sgabai@...>
 

I haven't posted my info in a long time...

My great grandparents were Simon and Fanny GREENBERG, although GREENBERG may
not have been the name in Europe. Simon may have taken the name upon
immigrating to the US, I'm not sure. If so, the original name might have
been something like SHIMSKY.

Simon's parents were Alex/Eli and Faigel/Frances SHWARTZ. Fanny's parents
were Albert & Ida RATOVETSKY. Ida's maiden name was SILVER.

Simon and Fanny were born during the mid 1850s and married in the late
1870s.

Simon and Fanny had 4 children in Bialystok/Wasilkow and immigrated during
the 1890s and settled in Newark, NJ.

Simon and his sons were involved in the liquor business owning bars in
Newark. But around 1915, the family moved to New York City where they owned
and operated movie theaters.

Simon's (half?) sister, Emma, immigrated a few years before him. Her
husband was Joe KOSSOWSKY and they also lived in Newark. They had 5
daughters.

Simon had another sister, Sarah, who married Nisson PERLSTEIN, a Rabbi, >from
Janow (it was his 2nd marriage) and they had at least 5 children. Four of
the children immigrated to the US around 1895 and settled in NJ and NYC.
Sarah arrived in 1921 and died in 1935 while living in the Bronx.

CHASAN'S and SPECTOR'S - also >from Bialystok/Wasilkow - are also connected
to the GREENBERG'S.

I'm also interested in Meyer and Gussie MUSSAF that lived in Paterson, NJ.
They had two sons, George and Nathan. All were in the silk business.

Simon may have had family living in Brooklyn - the KRAVITZ'S, in
upholstery, and the COHEN's who were in plumbing supply. Although there is
a chance they were just friends >from Bialystok.

Steve Gabai


David A. Harris: Ode from Oy to Joy #lodz #poland

Ada Holtzman
 

I have posted with permission the special letter of David A. Harris, the
Executive Director of AJC American Jewish Committee, which followed his
participation in the 60 years ceremonies last August in Lodz:
http://www.zchor.org/lodz/odetolodz.htm

The original letter together with previous letters of David Harris can be
read at:
http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/PublicationsListDAHLetters.asp

Shalom,

Ada Holtzman
www.zchor.org


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland David A. Harris: Ode from Oy to Joy #lodz #poland

Ada Holtzman
 

I have posted with permission the special letter of David A. Harris, the
Executive Director of AJC American Jewish Committee, which followed his
participation in the 60 years ceremonies last August in Lodz:
http://www.zchor.org/lodz/odetolodz.htm

The original letter together with previous letters of David Harris can be
read at:
http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/PublicationsListDAHLetters.asp

Shalom,

Ada Holtzman
www.zchor.org


SZCZERCOWSKI & BRAM #lodz #poland

Wayne Morgan <wmorgan@...>
 

Hello:
I am interested in the descendants of Abram Zajwel (b. 19 May, 1838 in
Pajeczno, d. 26 June, 1913 in Lodz). He married in Pajeczno, Estera Laja
BRAM (b 15 Aug, 1844, Pajeczno, probably died in Lodz. They had children:

Fraydla Rachel
Tauba
Gitla
Jalow
Maria
Maria Rywka
Chana
Rojza
Cala

Thanks

Wayne


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland SZCZERCOWSKI & BRAM #lodz #poland

Wayne Morgan <wmorgan@...>
 

Hello:
I am interested in the descendants of Abram Zajwel (b. 19 May, 1838 in
Pajeczno, d. 26 June, 1913 in Lodz). He married in Pajeczno, Estera Laja
BRAM (b 15 Aug, 1844, Pajeczno, probably died in Lodz. They had children:

Fraydla Rachel
Tauba
Gitla
Jalow
Maria
Maria Rywka
Chana
Rojza
Cala

Thanks

Wayne


Important notice JGS Pittsburgh Meeting #general

Rae M. Barent <RaeBarent@...>
 

Due to a cancellation by the scheduled speakers, the program for the
November 15th meeting will be a video: A Jewish Legacy. This video is
about the history of the Jewish community in Pittsburgh.

Rae M. Barent
Programming


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Important notice JGS Pittsburgh Meeting #general

Rae M. Barent <RaeBarent@...>
 

Due to a cancellation by the scheduled speakers, the program for the
November 15th meeting will be a video: A Jewish Legacy. This video is
about the history of the Jewish community in Pittsburgh.

Rae M. Barent
Programming


Family Books in Print--last call #general

SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

In the final issue of every year, AVOTAYNU lists Jewish genealogical family
histories that have been published in the preceding 12 months. Books
published earlier also are eligile for inclusion if they have not been
reported previously.

Please follow the following format: title of book; years covered; brief
description, including family names researched; libraries in which the book
has been deposited; price and ordering information.

Last call deadline: December 10, 2004.

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy


Human Interest Stories--last call #general

SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

As usual, AVOTAYNU will devote the 2004 Winter issue to Jewish genealogy
human interest stories. Stories may be about any aspect of the field--one
that illustrates an unusual research approach, the report of some rare find,
or just a good tale. For ideas, consult past issues. If possible,
illustrations (with captions) should accompany the article.

Last call deadline: December 10, 2004.

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Family Books in Print--last call #general

SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

In the final issue of every year, AVOTAYNU lists Jewish genealogical family
histories that have been published in the preceding 12 months. Books
published earlier also are eligile for inclusion if they have not been
reported previously.

Please follow the following format: title of book; years covered; brief
description, including family names researched; libraries in which the book
has been deposited; price and ordering information.

Last call deadline: December 10, 2004.

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Human Interest Stories--last call #general

SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

As usual, AVOTAYNU will devote the 2004 Winter issue to Jewish genealogy
human interest stories. Stories may be about any aspect of the field--one
that illustrates an unusual research approach, the report of some rare find,
or just a good tale. For ideas, consult past issues. If possible,
illustrations (with captions) should accompany the article.

Last call deadline: December 10, 2004.

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy