Date   

Re: Turkic/Turkish, Khazar research #dna

Michael Siporin <michael98siporin@...>
 

You might try looking for a copy of Arthur Koestler's book, " The
Thirteenth Tribe: The Khazar Empire and it's Heritage". I found it to be
very interesting.

For me. it provided a possibile answer to a personal mystery, as the
brother and sister of my maternal grandfather, Philip Haase, passed
themselves off as Turkish while living in Paris and Brussells during WW2.
They were >from Lodz, Poland, but spelled their name 'Haze'. Their family
name may have actually been Ghazi. My mother's sister had red hair.

Michael Siporin
mike@visionaryarts.com

Andy Carvin wrote in part:

As compelling as the Khazar stories are, I'm really curious to find out
exactly what's the latest on Khazar-Jewish connections based on genetic
research. Can anyone out there offer some suggested reading - preferably
research journals rather than websites about Khazaria?
thanks,

Andy Carvin
andy@benton.org


DNA Research #DNA RE: Turkic/Turkish, Khazar research #dna

Michael Siporin <michael98siporin@...>
 

You might try looking for a copy of Arthur Koestler's book, " The
Thirteenth Tribe: The Khazar Empire and it's Heritage". I found it to be
very interesting.

For me. it provided a possibile answer to a personal mystery, as the
brother and sister of my maternal grandfather, Philip Haase, passed
themselves off as Turkish while living in Paris and Brussells during WW2.
They were >from Lodz, Poland, but spelled their name 'Haze'. Their family
name may have actually been Ghazi. My mother's sister had red hair.

Michael Siporin
mike@visionaryarts.com

Andy Carvin wrote in part:

As compelling as the Khazar stories are, I'm really curious to find out
exactly what's the latest on Khazar-Jewish connections based on genetic
research. Can anyone out there offer some suggested reading - preferably
research journals rather than websites about Khazaria?
thanks,

Andy Carvin
andy@benton.org


Re: Haplotype H #dna

Hbdon@...
 

My wife, Viviane Saulson, also was Haplotype H, and has red hair (her
mother does not, however, have red hair), and her maternal line traces
back to Galicia - or Austria. I forget the name of the author, but the
book, "The 13th tribe" I believed discussed the tribe of Khazars who
converted to Judaism in the 13th century, was said to be populated by many
red-heads. Also, when I asked how common the "no mutations" cambridge
standard was, I was told by Bennet that about 13% of those tested where in
that category.

Don Saulson


DNA Research #DNA Re: Haplotype H #dna

Hbdon@...
 

My wife, Viviane Saulson, also was Haplotype H, and has red hair (her
mother does not, however, have red hair), and her maternal line traces
back to Galicia - or Austria. I forget the name of the author, but the
book, "The 13th tribe" I believed discussed the tribe of Khazars who
converted to Judaism in the 13th century, was said to be populated by many
red-heads. Also, when I asked how common the "no mutations" cambridge
standard was, I was told by Bennet that about 13% of those tested where in
that category.

Don Saulson


Names - duplicate? #galicia

Fran Segall <Fran_Segall@...>
 

A cousin of mine, in Bolszowce, Galicia (currently Bolshovtsy, Ukr), was
named Chana. On one of her brother's passenger manifests, their mother's
name appears to be Chana Liba; on another, their mother' name is (typed)
Chana Sabo.

Either way, it appears that both mother and daughter were named Chana, an
oddity in Ashkenazic naming! Has anyone run into this? Is it likely?
Nowadays, we look at at second name as a "middle name" but is it possible
that Chana Sabo or Chana Liba would be considered a different name than just
Chana? Any idea what the "meaning" of Chana "Sabo" or Chana "Liba" might be?

I'm new to these SIG lists, but have already had one mystery solved.
Thanks!

Fran

**************************

Fran Segall - Manassas, VA

Doing research on: STRICK - Wielopole, LICHTMAN/LICHTMANN -
Stanislavov/Ivano-Frankovs'k and Bolszowce/Bol'shovtsy,
BROUDA/BREWDA/BREVDA - Amstibove/Mstibovo, KLETZEL/KLETSEL - Volhynia region


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Names - duplicate? #galicia

Fran Segall <Fran_Segall@...>
 

A cousin of mine, in Bolszowce, Galicia (currently Bolshovtsy, Ukr), was
named Chana. On one of her brother's passenger manifests, their mother's
name appears to be Chana Liba; on another, their mother' name is (typed)
Chana Sabo.

Either way, it appears that both mother and daughter were named Chana, an
oddity in Ashkenazic naming! Has anyone run into this? Is it likely?
Nowadays, we look at at second name as a "middle name" but is it possible
that Chana Sabo or Chana Liba would be considered a different name than just
Chana? Any idea what the "meaning" of Chana "Sabo" or Chana "Liba" might be?

I'm new to these SIG lists, but have already had one mystery solved.
Thanks!

Fran

**************************

Fran Segall - Manassas, VA

Doing research on: STRICK - Wielopole, LICHTMAN/LICHTMANN -
Stanislavov/Ivano-Frankovs'k and Bolszowce/Bol'shovtsy,
BROUDA/BREWDA/BREVDA - Amstibove/Mstibovo, KLETZEL/KLETSEL - Volhynia region


What's In A Name? #galicia

Alan <alanboy@...>
 

I have received a wonderful story >from one of our Kolomea Research
Group members, who passed on a remembrance >from his father. The story
presented below describes how the town name came into being. I would
like any independent verification of this story. I would especially
like to know when the name came into use. Please direct replies to me
personally. Thank you.

THE ORIGIN OF THE TOWN NAME
(NOTE: The town name has many variations in spellings depending on
the country that was ruling at the time as well as ethnic variations.
These variations can be found on our web site at
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/kolomea/kolomad.htm). One Polish
version of the town spelling is KOLOMYJA.

THE STORY: The story teller uses the spelling KOLOMYJE and explains
that "kolo" in Polish is wheel and "myje" in Polish is mud. The name
came >from the fact that wagons would be led through the nearby Prut
River's running water to clean the mud off the wheels.



Alan Weiser, Coordinator
Kolomea Research Group & Web Site
alanboy@erols.com
Silver Spring


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia What's In A Name? #galicia

Alan <alanboy@...>
 

I have received a wonderful story >from one of our Kolomea Research
Group members, who passed on a remembrance >from his father. The story
presented below describes how the town name came into being. I would
like any independent verification of this story. I would especially
like to know when the name came into use. Please direct replies to me
personally. Thank you.

THE ORIGIN OF THE TOWN NAME
(NOTE: The town name has many variations in spellings depending on
the country that was ruling at the time as well as ethnic variations.
These variations can be found on our web site at
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/kolomea/kolomad.htm). One Polish
version of the town spelling is KOLOMYJA.

THE STORY: The story teller uses the spelling KOLOMYJE and explains
that "kolo" in Polish is wheel and "myje" in Polish is mud. The name
came >from the fact that wagons would be led through the nearby Prut
River's running water to clean the mud off the wheels.



Alan Weiser, Coordinator
Kolomea Research Group & Web Site
alanboy@erols.com
Silver Spring


Looking for Ataksk in Ukraine #general

Sam Leon <salam@...>
 

Sam Leon Australia.
salam@netspace.net.au

Dear Genners
My paternal grandparents (Sadagarsky) had two son's births recorded in
Odessa in 1896 and 1897.
My grandfather in each case was recorded to be >from Ataksk.
I have not been able to find where Ataksk is located.
All the details of the birth pages were translated >from the Russian entries.
Could anyone suggest where this Town or village might be located?
Your help would be gratefully appreciated.
Sam Leon Melbourne, Australia.


Conference Jews in a changing World #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

To view the programme for this very interesting Conference go to the
University of Latvia page attached to the Rigapage. It is of interest to
see the subjects and the lecturers.

www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/riga/rigapage.htm and click on University of
Latvia. The link below should take you direct to the page.

www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/riga/LV_univ.htm

The Conference starts on Tuesday the 20th of November. The papers are
usually published after the Conference and I will let you know when they
appear.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG


WAGNER success story! #general

Susanna Vendel <susanna.vendel@...>
 

I want to share my success and satisfaction with all of you who are
researching the history of your families. After 5 years of continuos and
obstinate research I succeeded to find in California the descendents of my
grandmother's brother. This WAGNER whose first name and date of birth or
year of emigration were unknown to me was >from Marmoros Sziget in
Transylvania and was a barber. For about a year ago I found in a letter
from 1948 his address in Cleveland at that time. That was the only certain
information I had of him. >from this point in my research I was helped and
advised by many of you, dear Jewishgeners. Next step was the a death notice
in the Cleveland Obituary (found by a Jewishgener) where the mentioned
address was the same to the old address I had. Here I learned his date of
birth, his first name, the name of his wife, son and grandchildren. The age
information helped me to locate him in the EIDB and double check the place
of origin and the name of his father. I discovered that he had changed the
first name (Jakob in the list of EIDB became Jean later on). Here I got
help with phone calls to the Funeral home and got more detailed
information. Looking than for information on his wife I learned (with help
of an other Jewishgener) that she died 1980 in California and that their
son was now living in West Covina. A Jewishgener searching the phone
directory of California found and sent me a list of 5 persons with the same
name as the son of my WAGNER, all living now in California. I wrote to all
of them in the beginning of November. 2 letters came back unopened, 2
answers were negative and the last one, received for 2 days ago was POSITIVE!

The WAGNER I found now living in California is first cousin to my father
and he was very surprised to learn about his " new" family as his father
never mentioned to him that he had left 7 siblings in the "old" country. I
will now write to him to very cautious (it is possible he is not aware of
his Jewish roots) and send a copy of the family tree, copies of old
photographs, etc. and I am myself very curious to "see" his 3 children and
6 grandchildren.

I want to thank you all, for the precious help I received and would like to
encourage other researcher in their work. Success stories are still possible!

Susanna Vendel, Stockholm
Researching: WEISZ - Valea lui Mihai, Oradea, Salonta; WAGNER , SIMSOVITS,
DAVIDOVITS - Tecso", Sighetu Marmatiei; RO"SSLER, BERGENTHAL - Zrenjanin,
Budapest; ROSMANN - Alba Iulia, Budapest.


Re: Poupko...Kagan? #general

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

<dshapiro@actcom.co.il> wrote in message

I have also come across a
reference to the Chafetz Chaim being a Poupko but variously, Kagan,
and HaKohen. I understand that the last two surnames are Cohanic
references.
I don't recall the source, but years ago I was told that Poupko is also
a "Cohanic reference" and is a Russian word for kohen,
etymologically related to "pope". Perhaps the Russian speakers on
the list can confirm this. In any case, I think that all the Poupkos I
have met have been kohanim.

David Shapiro
Jerusalem
Hi,

In Russian, 'pop' makes the reference to the Eastern Orthodox clergyman and
not the "Pope" in Rome.
Typical Russian surnames related or associated with the Orthodox clergymen,
or "pop" are: Popov or Popovich.
Poupko (French variation) is also known as Pupko or Pupkov in Russian, is
derived >from 'pupok' or 'navel'.

There is no real mystery in the origin of many of the Jewish surnames.

Those surnames that have been only in existence for less than 200 years and
they have been assigned by the local scribes in Russian, German or Austrian
Empires.

Bribes could assist in purchase of the "good" names as it was known
situation in Austrian Galicia or Germany where many allocated by the local
clerks surnames had a derogative character. Russia was no exception.

Surnames like Kagan, Kaganovich, Kaganski and so on have originated from
Turkic "kagan", the princely rulers of the euroasian steps. Many Jews of the
Great Duchies of Lithuania which included territories of todays land known
as Russia and Belarus inherited those names.

How many Ashkenazim can actually prove their cohanim status? After all, in
19th century Russia, names Cohen (Kohen, Kogan) were also availble to
adoption.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta


Drancy - Auschwitz Deportations #general

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

In the Jewishgen digest dated Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Stanley Grossman asked :

In the "Memorial to the Jews of France " by Serge Klarsfeld, I read in the
preamble to Convoy # 1 that there was a list published on Sept 26, 1946
[...]. I also read that of Convoy # 58, there were 44 survivors, 28 of
them women. I assume that they must be listed somewhere also.
On my opinion, the best way to obtain more information is to write
Serge Klarsfeld directly. Even if his address is published
everywhere, to follow the usual netiquette, I'm sending it to you
privately.

I want to add that usually, in the "Memorial to the Jew of France"
(at least in the French version, and I believe it's the same thing in
the English version), for each convoy, there is a mark (period) near
the name of each survivor. But it's not the case with the list #1
which was specially damaged and difficult to read when S. Klarsfeld
prepared his book.

In the list of Convoy #58, you'll find that mark near the 44 survivors.

I want to add that Serge Klarsfeld is currently working on a new
edition of the "Memorial of the Jews of France" which will be
reprinted with lots of corrections and addings, especially the last
address of each deportee.

Best regards.
Eve Line Blum - Besancon (France)
In charge of "Nous sommes 900 Francais" (Convoy #73)


Jacob SMITH of Russia & Phila., Pa. #general

NJ55TURTLE@...
 

I am looking for any info. on the family of Jacob (b. 1855) and Sarah (b.
1852) Smith. They were >from Russia. They are listed as residents of Phila in
1902. Arrival time in the USA was about 1890-1892, port of arrival and ship
unknown. With this family were the following children: Katie (b.1882 in
Russia)and husband Joseph (John) Pickholtz (b. 1882 in Russia), William (b.
1883 in Russia), Emma (b. 1890 in Russia), Fannie (b. 1892 in New Jersey).
In 1910, Katie Pickholtz's 3 children were living with the Smith
grandparents because of her death in 1909. They were Samuel (Picultz)
Pickholtz (b. 1901 in Phila., Pa.), Selma (Picultz) Pickholtz (b. 1904 in
Penna.), and Leonard (Picultz) Pickholtz (b. 1906 in Penna.). I have not
been able to find any records on Katie's husband, Joseph. Between 1910 and
1920 two of Katie's children, Leonard and Selma are place in Phila.
orphanges and that is the last we know about them. Samuel during this time
period completely disapears.

Does someone know anything about any of these people? In perticular, I am
interested in the Pickholtz side of the family, but I will accept any info.

Steve Pickholtz
Tabernacle, NJ
searching---- PICKHOLTZ (all spellings) and WINITSKY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for Ataksk in Ukraine #general

Sam Leon <salam@...>
 

Sam Leon Australia.
salam@netspace.net.au

Dear Genners
My paternal grandparents (Sadagarsky) had two son's births recorded in
Odessa in 1896 and 1897.
My grandfather in each case was recorded to be >from Ataksk.
I have not been able to find where Ataksk is located.
All the details of the birth pages were translated >from the Russian entries.
Could anyone suggest where this Town or village might be located?
Your help would be gratefully appreciated.
Sam Leon Melbourne, Australia.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Conference Jews in a changing World #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

To view the programme for this very interesting Conference go to the
University of Latvia page attached to the Rigapage. It is of interest to
see the subjects and the lecturers.

www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/riga/rigapage.htm and click on University of
Latvia. The link below should take you direct to the page.

www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/riga/LV_univ.htm

The Conference starts on Tuesday the 20th of November. The papers are
usually published after the Conference and I will let you know when they
appear.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WAGNER success story! #general

Susanna Vendel <susanna.vendel@...>
 

I want to share my success and satisfaction with all of you who are
researching the history of your families. After 5 years of continuos and
obstinate research I succeeded to find in California the descendents of my
grandmother's brother. This WAGNER whose first name and date of birth or
year of emigration were unknown to me was >from Marmoros Sziget in
Transylvania and was a barber. For about a year ago I found in a letter
from 1948 his address in Cleveland at that time. That was the only certain
information I had of him. >from this point in my research I was helped and
advised by many of you, dear Jewishgeners. Next step was the a death notice
in the Cleveland Obituary (found by a Jewishgener) where the mentioned
address was the same to the old address I had. Here I learned his date of
birth, his first name, the name of his wife, son and grandchildren. The age
information helped me to locate him in the EIDB and double check the place
of origin and the name of his father. I discovered that he had changed the
first name (Jakob in the list of EIDB became Jean later on). Here I got
help with phone calls to the Funeral home and got more detailed
information. Looking than for information on his wife I learned (with help
of an other Jewishgener) that she died 1980 in California and that their
son was now living in West Covina. A Jewishgener searching the phone
directory of California found and sent me a list of 5 persons with the same
name as the son of my WAGNER, all living now in California. I wrote to all
of them in the beginning of November. 2 letters came back unopened, 2
answers were negative and the last one, received for 2 days ago was POSITIVE!

The WAGNER I found now living in California is first cousin to my father
and he was very surprised to learn about his " new" family as his father
never mentioned to him that he had left 7 siblings in the "old" country. I
will now write to him to very cautious (it is possible he is not aware of
his Jewish roots) and send a copy of the family tree, copies of old
photographs, etc. and I am myself very curious to "see" his 3 children and
6 grandchildren.

I want to thank you all, for the precious help I received and would like to
encourage other researcher in their work. Success stories are still possible!

Susanna Vendel, Stockholm
Researching: WEISZ - Valea lui Mihai, Oradea, Salonta; WAGNER , SIMSOVITS,
DAVIDOVITS - Tecso", Sighetu Marmatiei; RO"SSLER, BERGENTHAL - Zrenjanin,
Budapest; ROSMANN - Alba Iulia, Budapest.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Poupko...Kagan? #general

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

<dshapiro@actcom.co.il> wrote in message

I have also come across a
reference to the Chafetz Chaim being a Poupko but variously, Kagan,
and HaKohen. I understand that the last two surnames are Cohanic
references.
I don't recall the source, but years ago I was told that Poupko is also
a "Cohanic reference" and is a Russian word for kohen,
etymologically related to "pope". Perhaps the Russian speakers on
the list can confirm this. In any case, I think that all the Poupkos I
have met have been kohanim.

David Shapiro
Jerusalem
Hi,

In Russian, 'pop' makes the reference to the Eastern Orthodox clergyman and
not the "Pope" in Rome.
Typical Russian surnames related or associated with the Orthodox clergymen,
or "pop" are: Popov or Popovich.
Poupko (French variation) is also known as Pupko or Pupkov in Russian, is
derived >from 'pupok' or 'navel'.

There is no real mystery in the origin of many of the Jewish surnames.

Those surnames that have been only in existence for less than 200 years and
they have been assigned by the local scribes in Russian, German or Austrian
Empires.

Bribes could assist in purchase of the "good" names as it was known
situation in Austrian Galicia or Germany where many allocated by the local
clerks surnames had a derogative character. Russia was no exception.

Surnames like Kagan, Kaganovich, Kaganski and so on have originated from
Turkic "kagan", the princely rulers of the euroasian steps. Many Jews of the
Great Duchies of Lithuania which included territories of todays land known
as Russia and Belarus inherited those names.

How many Ashkenazim can actually prove their cohanim status? After all, in
19th century Russia, names Cohen (Kohen, Kogan) were also availble to
adoption.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Drancy - Auschwitz Deportations #general

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

In the Jewishgen digest dated Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Stanley Grossman asked :

In the "Memorial to the Jews of France " by Serge Klarsfeld, I read in the
preamble to Convoy # 1 that there was a list published on Sept 26, 1946
[...]. I also read that of Convoy # 58, there were 44 survivors, 28 of
them women. I assume that they must be listed somewhere also.
On my opinion, the best way to obtain more information is to write
Serge Klarsfeld directly. Even if his address is published
everywhere, to follow the usual netiquette, I'm sending it to you
privately.

I want to add that usually, in the "Memorial to the Jew of France"
(at least in the French version, and I believe it's the same thing in
the English version), for each convoy, there is a mark (period) near
the name of each survivor. But it's not the case with the list #1
which was specially damaged and difficult to read when S. Klarsfeld
prepared his book.

In the list of Convoy #58, you'll find that mark near the 44 survivors.

I want to add that Serge Klarsfeld is currently working on a new
edition of the "Memorial of the Jews of France" which will be
reprinted with lots of corrections and addings, especially the last
address of each deportee.

Best regards.
Eve Line Blum - Besancon (France)
In charge of "Nous sommes 900 Francais" (Convoy #73)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jacob SMITH of Russia & Phila., Pa. #general

NJ55TURTLE@...
 

I am looking for any info. on the family of Jacob (b. 1855) and Sarah (b.
1852) Smith. They were >from Russia. They are listed as residents of Phila in
1902. Arrival time in the USA was about 1890-1892, port of arrival and ship
unknown. With this family were the following children: Katie (b.1882 in
Russia)and husband Joseph (John) Pickholtz (b. 1882 in Russia), William (b.
1883 in Russia), Emma (b. 1890 in Russia), Fannie (b. 1892 in New Jersey).
In 1910, Katie Pickholtz's 3 children were living with the Smith
grandparents because of her death in 1909. They were Samuel (Picultz)
Pickholtz (b. 1901 in Phila., Pa.), Selma (Picultz) Pickholtz (b. 1904 in
Penna.), and Leonard (Picultz) Pickholtz (b. 1906 in Penna.). I have not
been able to find any records on Katie's husband, Joseph. Between 1910 and
1920 two of Katie's children, Leonard and Selma are place in Phila.
orphanges and that is the last we know about them. Samuel during this time
period completely disapears.

Does someone know anything about any of these people? In perticular, I am
interested in the Pickholtz side of the family, but I will accept any info.

Steve Pickholtz
Tabernacle, NJ
searching---- PICKHOLTZ (all spellings) and WINITSKY