Date   

Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Paul Silbert <msilbert@...>
 

The idea that the Jews of Eastern Europe are somehow derived >from the
Jews of Spain does not bear up under close examination. The Spanish
Jews, when they were expelled in 1492, chose to emigrate to North
Africa, Italy or the Ottoman Empire, all of which border the
Mediterranean. This is the region in which Ladino (Judeo-Spanish)
became prevalent.

The Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, on the other hand, spoke Yiddish
(Judeo-German), which shows that they derived >from German-speaking
countries. The Romance lexical elements in Yiddish come, not >from
Spanish, but >from Old French and Old Italian, which makes sense in that
the Jews of Germany came originally >from France and Italy.

Paul Silbert
Perth, Western Australia


Latvia SIG #Latvia Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Paul Silbert <msilbert@...>
 

The idea that the Jews of Eastern Europe are somehow derived >from the
Jews of Spain does not bear up under close examination. The Spanish
Jews, when they were expelled in 1492, chose to emigrate to North
Africa, Italy or the Ottoman Empire, all of which border the
Mediterranean. This is the region in which Ladino (Judeo-Spanish)
became prevalent.

The Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, on the other hand, spoke Yiddish
(Judeo-German), which shows that they derived >from German-speaking
countries. The Romance lexical elements in Yiddish come, not >from
Spanish, but >from Old French and Old Italian, which makes sense in that
the Jews of Germany came originally >from France and Italy.

Paul Silbert
Perth, Western Australia


Re: Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Judy Simon
 

If you are an Ashkenazi male with the surname Peretz and you want to
find out if your deep ancestry could have been Sephardic, genetic
genealogy may answer the question for you. A Y-DNA test could show
whether you have Ashkenazi or Sephardic Y-DNA matches. Please contact
me privately if you are interested.

Judy Simon
Stony Brook, NY


Latvia SIG #Latvia re: Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Judy Simon
 

If you are an Ashkenazi male with the surname Peretz and you want to
find out if your deep ancestry could have been Sephardic, genetic
genealogy may answer the question for you. A Y-DNA test could show
whether you have Ashkenazi or Sephardic Y-DNA matches. Please contact
me privately if you are interested.

Judy Simon
Stony Brook, NY


Commemorative Books and "Address" calendars; Cemetery in Sloboda Novomeyskaya; Perm Synagogue Records #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

On a Russian language site, 'Blackresearcher. ru", there are a number of Memorial books and Address Calendars that are available to download in their original versions. You could use a language translator in order to read the website's index, but would need to be familiar with the Russian language in order to read the books themselves in the original form.

In order to download you will need to register with the forum first. You can register at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/profile.php?mode=register

The index, Page 1, is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12 and Page 2 is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12&sort=1&order=1&start=50
The publications are in PDF and/or DJVU formats, and cover various years.

A few examples are: Commemorative book and calendar Chernigov Province [1878-1916, PDF, DJVU],Commemorative book on the Odessa School District 1913-1914 school year [1914, PDF], Commemorative book and calendar Kharkov province [1862-1909, PDF], Background and address book Kremenchug [1875, PDF], All Odessa [1901-1903, PDF], Commemorative book and e-calendar Mogilev province [1865-1916, PDF], Commemorative book Tauride province [1867, PDF], Commemorative book Vitebsk [1888, PDF], etc.

Available only for the next couple of weeks, are images of 144 gravestones at the "North Cemetery" in Sloboda Novomeyskaya, Ukraine. They were posted on the Russian forum site, JewishRoots, by 'Novomeysky" on Sept. 6, 2011, http://www.forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=239&start=20. There, you will find the file storage information (http://files.mail.ru/00YTQF). There are eight links to storage. Eight rows of graves were photographed. There is also a diagram of the cemetery.

For those of you who can read handwritten Cyrillic, 445 images of Perm Synagogue Records, in .jpeg format, are available. The information was posted on the Russian language site, IOP forum, by "Sarapul", on 3/5/09 The record information is available at: http://forum.vgd.ru/177/3886/810.htm?a=stdforum_view&o= You can use a language translator for the forum information but not for the records themselves.


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Commemorative Books and "Address" calendars; Cemetery in Sloboda Novomeyskaya; Perm Synagogue Records #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

On a Russian language site, 'Blackresearcher. ru", there are a number of Memorial books and Address Calendars that are available to download in their original versions. You could use a language translator in order to read the website's index, but would need to be familiar with the Russian language in order to read the books themselves in the original form.

In order to download you will need to register with the forum first. You can register at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/profile.php?mode=register

The index, Page 1, is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12 and Page 2 is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12&sort=1&order=1&start=50
The publications are in PDF and/or DJVU formats, and cover various years.

A few examples are: Commemorative book and calendar Chernigov Province [1878-1916, PDF, DJVU],Commemorative book on the Odessa School District 1913-1914 school year [1914, PDF], Commemorative book and calendar Kharkov province [1862-1909, PDF], Background and address book Kremenchug [1875, PDF], All Odessa [1901-1903, PDF], Commemorative book and e-calendar Mogilev province [1865-1916, PDF], Commemorative book Tauride province [1867, PDF], Commemorative book Vitebsk [1888, PDF], etc.

Available only for the next couple of weeks, are images of 144 gravestones at the "North Cemetery" in Sloboda Novomeyskaya, Ukraine. They were posted on the Russian forum site, JewishRoots, by 'Novomeysky" on Sept. 6, 2011, http://www.forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=239&start=20. There, you will find the file storage information (http://files.mail.ru/00YTQF). There are eight links to storage. Eight rows of graves were photographed. There is also a diagram of the cemetery.

For those of you who can read handwritten Cyrillic, 445 images of Perm Synagogue Records, in .jpeg format, are available. The information was posted on the Russian language site, IOP forum, by "Sarapul", on 3/5/09 The record information is available at: http://forum.vgd.ru/177/3886/810.htm?a=stdforum_view&o= You can use a language translator for the forum information but not for the records themselves.


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Chernihiv: Revolutionary Jewish Youth #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

There is a short list of young people who were involved in the pre-revolutionary underground movement in Chernihiv. The list is based on the following Russian sources: memories of a Bolshevik C. Urine (02.09.1957g.) Vospominatiya Yu Kotsyubynsky in the journal "Annals of the revolution" â?? 2 in 1927.; Memories V. Primakov, EA Zhuravleva ("Red Cossacks." Memories of veterans. Voenizdat 1969. ) I. Kotsyubinskaya "Michael Kotsjubinsky" f. 1969., Dubinsky I. "The trumpeters trumpeting alarm" BM 1962.

The list was posted on Jewish Roots by "scool" on 4/18, 2011 & can be found at: http://forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2091


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Chernihiv: Revolutionary Jewish Youth #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

There is a short list of young people who were involved in the pre-revolutionary underground movement in Chernihiv. The list is based on the following Russian sources: memories of a Bolshevik C. Urine (02.09.1957g.) Vospominatiya Yu Kotsyubynsky in the journal "Annals of the revolution" â?? 2 in 1927.; Memories V. Primakov, EA Zhuravleva ("Red Cossacks." Memories of veterans. Voenizdat 1969. ) I. Kotsyubinskaya "Michael Kotsjubinsky" f. 1969., Dubinsky I. "The trumpeters trumpeting alarm" BM 1962.

The list was posted on Jewish Roots by "scool" on 4/18, 2011 & can be found at: http://forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2091


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Nikolayev, (Podolia) #ukraine

GeoestherL@...
 

There are several communities named Nikolayev on our web site. I have had a
town listing for many years on the JGF web site. I have just learned that
those of us searching for Nikolayev, (Podolia) must add this designation to
their listing or they will be automatically listed as having an interest
in Nikolayev in Kherson. I know that there are others who are also listed
incorrectly; this is intended to alert you to change your designation as I
have just done. At this time there are over 300 people interested in the
Kherson listing but on 13 of us interested in the Podolia listing.

George Liss


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Nikolayev, (Podolia) #ukraine

GeoestherL@...
 

There are several communities named Nikolayev on our web site. I have had a
town listing for many years on the JGF web site. I have just learned that
those of us searching for Nikolayev, (Podolia) must add this designation to
their listing or they will be automatically listed as having an interest
in Nikolayev in Kherson. I know that there are others who are also listed
incorrectly; this is intended to alert you to change your designation as I
have just done. At this time there are over 300 people interested in the
Kherson listing but on 13 of us interested in the Podolia listing.

George Liss


Re: When is oral family history good enough to link families? #general

Allan Karan
 

Ira,

You summed up my dilemma along my thinking not to link them. On my side, I have
lots of proof that the family came >from Kremenchug since all Joseph's children were
born there and their draft, naturalization, marriage and etc. all show Kremenchug.
An Aunt told our family was the only PERSKY'S in Kremenchug.

My issue is with the other PERSKY relative who said their PERSKY family came >from
Kremenchug as I have limited communications with him. I have been able to put this
family tree together >from public documents, but since all the chidden were US born
and I can't find any death, naturalization or immigration records for their father
Morris PERSKY, I am still doubt.

What is interesting is a number of replies have said to link the family anyhow.
There must be genealogical standards for this situation?

Allan S. Karan


From: Ira Leviton [mailto:iraleviton@yahoo.com]
Allan Karan asked about when an oral evidence is good enough to link two
branches into one family. If I understood the relationships in his message
correctly, both his grandfather and somebody else's grandfather were from
Kremenchug, Poltava district, in the Ukraine, and both their fathers were named
Isachar.
<akaran1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two Persky's as
brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph PERSKY, had a
brother named Morris PERSKY...My g grandfather's grave stone reads "Yona Binyamin
son of Isachar. They lived in MA and RI and their children were born in
Kremenchug, Poltava district, Ukraine.

A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...says his grandfather came >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, Ukraine...His grave stone reads "son of Isachar. Morris PERSKY lived in
NY and all his children were born in NY.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: When is oral family history good enough to link families? #general

Allan Karan
 

Ira,

You summed up my dilemma along my thinking not to link them. On my side, I have
lots of proof that the family came >from Kremenchug since all Joseph's children were
born there and their draft, naturalization, marriage and etc. all show Kremenchug.
An Aunt told our family was the only PERSKY'S in Kremenchug.

My issue is with the other PERSKY relative who said their PERSKY family came >from
Kremenchug as I have limited communications with him. I have been able to put this
family tree together >from public documents, but since all the chidden were US born
and I can't find any death, naturalization or immigration records for their father
Morris PERSKY, I am still doubt.

What is interesting is a number of replies have said to link the family anyhow.
There must be genealogical standards for this situation?

Allan S. Karan


From: Ira Leviton [mailto:iraleviton@yahoo.com]
Allan Karan asked about when an oral evidence is good enough to link two
branches into one family. If I understood the relationships in his message
correctly, both his grandfather and somebody else's grandfather were from
Kremenchug, Poltava district, in the Ukraine, and both their fathers were named
Isachar.
<akaran1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two Persky's as
brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph PERSKY, had a
brother named Morris PERSKY...My g grandfather's grave stone reads "Yona Binyamin
son of Isachar. They lived in MA and RI and their children were born in
Kremenchug, Poltava district, Ukraine.

A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...says his grandfather came >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, Ukraine...His grave stone reads "son of Isachar. Morris PERSKY lived in
NY and all his children were born in NY.


evidence for PERSKY brothers #general

sbloom@...
 

Allan-

I think you need some more links to prove that they are brothers.

The most important one would be linking Morris more convincingly to Kremenchug. Is
there anything even linking him to Ukraine at all?

If Morris really is >from that town, I think there is a pretty good chance that
Joseph and Morris were at least close cousins, if not brothers (many families had
numerous folks of similar age with same name--all named for some distant, and
perhaps prominent, ancestor).

Also, perhaps one or more of the relevant DNA tests available would help to
establish a link.

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia


<akaran1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two Persky's as
brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph PERSKY, had a
brother named Morris PERSKY...My g grandfather's grave stone reads "Yona Binyamin
son of Isachar. They lived in MA and RI and their children were born in
Kremenchug, Poltava district, Ukraine.

A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...says his grandfather came >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, Ukraine...His grave stone reads "son of Isachar. Morris PERSKY lived in
NY and all his children were born in NY.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen evidence for PERSKY brothers #general

sbloom@...
 

Allan-

I think you need some more links to prove that they are brothers.

The most important one would be linking Morris more convincingly to Kremenchug. Is
there anything even linking him to Ukraine at all?

If Morris really is >from that town, I think there is a pretty good chance that
Joseph and Morris were at least close cousins, if not brothers (many families had
numerous folks of similar age with same name--all named for some distant, and
perhaps prominent, ancestor).

Also, perhaps one or more of the relevant DNA tests available would help to
establish a link.

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia


<akaran1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two Persky's as
brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph PERSKY, had a
brother named Morris PERSKY...My g grandfather's grave stone reads "Yona Binyamin
son of Isachar. They lived in MA and RI and their children were born in
Kremenchug, Poltava district, Ukraine.

A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...says his grandfather came >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, Ukraine...His grave stone reads "son of Isachar. Morris PERSKY lived in
NY and all his children were born in NY.


Re: When is oral family history good enough to link families? #general

Ira Leviton
 

Dear Cousins,

Allan Karan asked about when an oral evidence is good enough to link two branches
into one family. If I understood the relationships in his message correctly, both
his grandfather and somebody else's grandfather were >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, in the Ukraine, and both their fathers were named Isachar.

I answer, as I often do in these cases, that it depends. Every piece of evidence,
whether oral or written, is just one piece of information. Sometimes it's wrong,
sometimes it's a clue to something else, or sometimes it's incomplete. In this
case, Allan has a document to prove that his grandfather was >from Kremenchug (but
is it an arrival record, which might only proved he lived there, or is it a birth
record or passport?) but the other person does not.

Since I can't imagine somebody claiming family ties to Kremenchug and making it up
or lying about it, let's assume it's true. With the same father's name as somebody
else, then the odds of a family tie depend on the size of the town or city and how
common the surname was. If the two names were Abraham Levy and Moshe Levy, both
sons of Jacob Levy and >from Warsaw, that wouldn't prove anything because there
probably were several people named Jacob Levy in Warsaw.

I don't know how big Kremenchuk was or how common the name PERSKY was in that area,
but it seems like that combination is much less common than Levy >from Warsaw, so
there is a very good possibility that they were related. However, proof requires
more documentation, like arrival records, birth records, or other records to match
the mothers' names or the fathers' ages.

There is also the possiblity that the two grandfathers were related, but not as
brothers, for instance if Yisachar was two people who were cousins or uncle and
nephew, and named after a common ancestor.

Regards,

Ira
Ira Leviton
New York, N.Y.

<akaran1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two Persky's as
brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph PERSKY, had a
brother named Morris PERSKY...My g grandfather's grave stone reads "Yona Binyamin
son of Isachar. They lived in MA and RI and their children were born in
Kremenchug, Poltava district, Ukraine.

A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...says his grandfather came >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, Ukraine...His grave stone reads "son of Isachar. Morris PERSKY lived in
NY and all his children were born in NY.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: When is oral family history good enough to link families? #general

Ira Leviton
 

Dear Cousins,

Allan Karan asked about when an oral evidence is good enough to link two branches
into one family. If I understood the relationships in his message correctly, both
his grandfather and somebody else's grandfather were >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, in the Ukraine, and both their fathers were named Isachar.

I answer, as I often do in these cases, that it depends. Every piece of evidence,
whether oral or written, is just one piece of information. Sometimes it's wrong,
sometimes it's a clue to something else, or sometimes it's incomplete. In this
case, Allan has a document to prove that his grandfather was >from Kremenchug (but
is it an arrival record, which might only proved he lived there, or is it a birth
record or passport?) but the other person does not.

Since I can't imagine somebody claiming family ties to Kremenchug and making it up
or lying about it, let's assume it's true. With the same father's name as somebody
else, then the odds of a family tie depend on the size of the town or city and how
common the surname was. If the two names were Abraham Levy and Moshe Levy, both
sons of Jacob Levy and >from Warsaw, that wouldn't prove anything because there
probably were several people named Jacob Levy in Warsaw.

I don't know how big Kremenchuk was or how common the name PERSKY was in that area,
but it seems like that combination is much less common than Levy >from Warsaw, so
there is a very good possibility that they were related. However, proof requires
more documentation, like arrival records, birth records, or other records to match
the mothers' names or the fathers' ages.

There is also the possiblity that the two grandfathers were related, but not as
brothers, for instance if Yisachar was two people who were cousins or uncle and
nephew, and named after a common ancestor.

Regards,

Ira
Ira Leviton
New York, N.Y.

<akaran1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two Persky's as
brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph PERSKY, had a
brother named Morris PERSKY...My g grandfather's grave stone reads "Yona Binyamin
son of Isachar. They lived in MA and RI and their children were born in
Kremenchug, Poltava district, Ukraine.

A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...says his grandfather came >from Kremenchug, Poltava
district, Ukraine...His grave stone reads "son of Isachar. Morris PERSKY lived in
NY and all his children were born in NY.


State Department Employment c1914-1918 #general

Palekaiko
 

I'm at a loss as to how to proceed to obtain information about my great uncle
Morris Samuel (Samuel Morris) Weissberg, who may have worked for the State
Department. In a recently discovered obit in the Cleveland Plain Dealer, it's
stated that MS Weissberg (my great uncle)worked for the State Department in
different European capitals, citing his knowledge of many European languages.
Uncle Sam was born in Stanislawow, Poland (now Ivan Frankvisk, Ukraine), arrived in
the US c1905 at age 15. In 1915, he would have been 25.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might proceed in obtaining
documentation of Uncle Sam's tenure with the State Department, if, indeed he did
work for them?

Thank you,

Michael Diamant
Hawaii

Please respond privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen State Department Employment c1914-1918 #general

Palekaiko
 

I'm at a loss as to how to proceed to obtain information about my great uncle
Morris Samuel (Samuel Morris) Weissberg, who may have worked for the State
Department. In a recently discovered obit in the Cleveland Plain Dealer, it's
stated that MS Weissberg (my great uncle)worked for the State Department in
different European capitals, citing his knowledge of many European languages.
Uncle Sam was born in Stanislawow, Poland (now Ivan Frankvisk, Ukraine), arrived in
the US c1905 at age 15. In 1915, he would have been 25.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might proceed in obtaining
documentation of Uncle Sam's tenure with the State Department, if, indeed he did
work for them?

Thank you,

Michael Diamant
Hawaii

Please respond privately.


KATZ, Lina, Frida, Gizella & Mayer - Budapest 1946 #general

Shlomo Katz
 

I am seeking any information about Lina Katz (nee Pollak) and her children Frida,
Gizella & Mayer, who survived the Holocaust and are recorded as living at 32
Nagydiofa, Budapest in 1946 according to http://www.neveklarsfeld.org/.

The children were all born in Felsoviso / Viseul de Sus / Oyber-Visheve:
Mayer in 1899
Frida in 1905
Gizella in 1907.

Their father was my g-g-g-uncle, Chaim / Herman Katz.

I would assume they are no longer living, but may have descendants out there. One
name that was mentioned by relatives was Alice Goldstein, but I have never been
able to find her.

Shlomo Katz
Silver Spring MD


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen KATZ, Lina, Frida, Gizella & Mayer - Budapest 1946 #general

Shlomo Katz
 

I am seeking any information about Lina Katz (nee Pollak) and her children Frida,
Gizella & Mayer, who survived the Holocaust and are recorded as living at 32
Nagydiofa, Budapest in 1946 according to http://www.neveklarsfeld.org/.

The children were all born in Felsoviso / Viseul de Sus / Oyber-Visheve:
Mayer in 1899
Frida in 1905
Gizella in 1907.

Their father was my g-g-g-uncle, Chaim / Herman Katz.

I would assume they are no longer living, but may have descendants out there. One
name that was mentioned by relatives was Alice Goldstein, but I have never been
able to find her.

Shlomo Katz
Silver Spring MD

180241 - 180260 of 663863