Date   

Re: When is oral family history good enough to link families? #general

Israel P
 

They probably are brothers, but no, it would not be prudent to record them as such.
Once you do, you (or your research heirs, should you be so fortunate as to have
some) will never revisit the question.

Your subject line is not a good reflection of your question, however. The problem
is not oral history. The problem is that your oral history is not specific as to
who that brother is.

My rule in this kind of case is that once you feel sure, find one more piece of
supporting evidence.

Israel Pickholtz

Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two
Persky's as brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph
PERSKY had a brother named Morris PERSKY... My ggrandfather's grave stone reads
"Yona Binyamin son of Isachar. A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...His grave stone
reads "son of Isachar.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: When is oral family history good enough to link families? #general

Israel P
 

They probably are brothers, but no, it would not be prudent to record them as such.
Once you do, you (or your research heirs, should you be so fortunate as to have
some) will never revisit the question.

Your subject line is not a good reflection of your question, however. The problem
is not oral history. The problem is that your oral history is not specific as to
who that brother is.

My rule in this kind of case is that once you feel sure, find one more piece of
supporting evidence.

Israel Pickholtz

Question: Based on the below, would it be prudent to link these two
Persky's as brothers? My oral family history says my g grandfather, Joseph
PERSKY had a brother named Morris PERSKY... My ggrandfather's grave stone reads
"Yona Binyamin son of Isachar. A grandson of Morris PERSKY ...His grave stone
reads "son of Isachar.


Derasna / Derozna / Drasno / Durzina, Russia #general

Renee Steinig
 

I'm trying to determine the place of birth of three brothers who came to the US
from the Russian Empire, probably c. 1906-1907 according to census records. Here's
the information on the records I've located so far:

Phillip Frank (Ephraim Feivel) KERSHAW born 1894 Derozna, Russia (WWI draft card,
1917) born c. 1895 Russia (1930 census)born 1894 Durzina, Russia (WWII draft card,
1942)

Benjamin Morris (Benyamin Mordechai) KERSHAW born 1891 Derasna, Kamnetz, Russia
(WWI draft card, 1917)born c. 1890 Russia (1920 census)born c. 1892 Russia (1930
census)born 1892 Odessa, Russa (WWII draft card, 1942)

Hyman (Chaim) KATZ born 1887 Russia (WWI draft card, 1917) born c. 1887 Russia-
Poland (1920 census)born c. 1888 Russia (1930 census)born 1888 Drazno, Russia
(WWII draft card, 1942)

It's possible that neither KATZ or KERSHAW was the original name. I could find no
arrival records that seemed right nor could I find any of them on the 1910 census.
I'm still searching for naturalizations for further information on birth place,
original name, and immigration.

Two possible towns >from the JewishGen Gazetteer, where I looked for similar
sounding places near Kamyanyets, Belarus, and Kamyanets-Podolskyy, Ukraine:
Derazhnya, Ukraine (57.1 miles NE of Kamyanets-Podilskyy; 268 miles SE of
Kamyanyets) Derazhno, Ukraine (153.6 miles N of Kamyanets-Podilskyy; 143 miles SE
of Kamyanyets)

Only Derazhno was in Poland between the world wars.

Any suggestions?

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Derasna / Derozna / Drasno / Durzina, Russia #general

Renee Steinig
 

I'm trying to determine the place of birth of three brothers who came to the US
from the Russian Empire, probably c. 1906-1907 according to census records. Here's
the information on the records I've located so far:

Phillip Frank (Ephraim Feivel) KERSHAW born 1894 Derozna, Russia (WWI draft card,
1917) born c. 1895 Russia (1930 census)born 1894 Durzina, Russia (WWII draft card,
1942)

Benjamin Morris (Benyamin Mordechai) KERSHAW born 1891 Derasna, Kamnetz, Russia
(WWI draft card, 1917)born c. 1890 Russia (1920 census)born c. 1892 Russia (1930
census)born 1892 Odessa, Russa (WWII draft card, 1942)

Hyman (Chaim) KATZ born 1887 Russia (WWI draft card, 1917) born c. 1887 Russia-
Poland (1920 census)born c. 1888 Russia (1930 census)born 1888 Drazno, Russia
(WWII draft card, 1942)

It's possible that neither KATZ or KERSHAW was the original name. I could find no
arrival records that seemed right nor could I find any of them on the 1910 census.
I'm still searching for naturalizations for further information on birth place,
original name, and immigration.

Two possible towns >from the JewishGen Gazetteer, where I looked for similar
sounding places near Kamyanyets, Belarus, and Kamyanets-Podolskyy, Ukraine:
Derazhnya, Ukraine (57.1 miles NE of Kamyanets-Podilskyy; 268 miles SE of
Kamyanyets) Derazhno, Ukraine (153.6 miles N of Kamyanets-Podilskyy; 143 miles SE
of Kamyanyets)

Only Derazhno was in Poland between the world wars.

Any suggestions?

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


Beirach BERGER from Ulanow #general

Linda Berkowitz <lindaberkowitz@...>
 

I am looking for information on Beirach BERGER >from Ulanow. He was born between
1871 and 1881. He immigrated to Chicago via Canada, crossing into the USA at
Detroit around 1900 or 1902 He settled in Chicago among a large SPIRA, BERGER,
and WERNER family. He married a Rosie and had three children: Isadore, Samuel,
and Bertha. Sam was a doctor. Isadore ran a hardware store on Division Street.
Bertha married Philip SANDERS.

Beirach was a cousin of my grandmother Yetta SPIRA BERKOWITZ and though I know
that they were related through the BERGER family, I am still working to unpuzzle
that connection.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Linda Berkowitz
Northbrook, IL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Beirach BERGER from Ulanow #general

Linda Berkowitz <lindaberkowitz@...>
 

I am looking for information on Beirach BERGER >from Ulanow. He was born between
1871 and 1881. He immigrated to Chicago via Canada, crossing into the USA at
Detroit around 1900 or 1902 He settled in Chicago among a large SPIRA, BERGER,
and WERNER family. He married a Rosie and had three children: Isadore, Samuel,
and Bertha. Sam was a doctor. Isadore ran a hardware store on Division Street.
Bertha married Philip SANDERS.

Beirach was a cousin of my grandmother Yetta SPIRA BERKOWITZ and though I know
that they were related through the BERGER family, I am still working to unpuzzle
that connection.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Linda Berkowitz
Northbrook, IL


TB sanitarium in Budapest #general

JGyori@...
 

Dear Genners,

My great grandfather, Klein Jozsef, died at a tubercluosis sanitarium in Budapest
in 1940. According to my mother, it was at the top of the hill that you reached by
the cog railway. His wife, born Weberman Terez, died in 1938 in Pestszenterszebet.

With the new online images at familysearch, I am trying to find his death record.

I have two questions:
1. Would his record be in the district of the hospital or in his home town where
his son lived?
2. Does anyone know what district this sanitarium would be in?

Thank you,
Judi Gyory Missel
Mesa, Arizona

Researching: WEBERMAN, ROZENBAUM, ZIMERMAN, SCHONSTEIN. KLEIN, BRAUN - all >from
the small towns around Eger, Hungary
SCHVARCZ - Tiszafured and Dormand, Hungary
GRUNBERGER and LAJZER - Michalovce, Slovakia
GYORI, SINGER - Gyor, Hungary
HIRSCHFELD, WERTHEIM - Nove Zamky, Slovakia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen TB sanitarium in Budapest #general

JGyori@...
 

Dear Genners,

My great grandfather, Klein Jozsef, died at a tubercluosis sanitarium in Budapest
in 1940. According to my mother, it was at the top of the hill that you reached by
the cog railway. His wife, born Weberman Terez, died in 1938 in Pestszenterszebet.

With the new online images at familysearch, I am trying to find his death record.

I have two questions:
1. Would his record be in the district of the hospital or in his home town where
his son lived?
2. Does anyone know what district this sanitarium would be in?

Thank you,
Judi Gyory Missel
Mesa, Arizona

Researching: WEBERMAN, ROZENBAUM, ZIMERMAN, SCHONSTEIN. KLEIN, BRAUN - all >from
the small towns around Eger, Hungary
SCHVARCZ - Tiszafured and Dormand, Hungary
GRUNBERGER and LAJZER - Michalovce, Slovakia
GYORI, SINGER - Gyor, Hungary
HIRSCHFELD, WERTHEIM - Nove Zamky, Slovakia


Romanian researcher #romania

lbudgar@...
 

Some years ago, Ladislau Gyemant did some research for me. I'd like to
contact him again, but the email address I had for him didn't work. In
fact, I'm not sure if he's even still alive. Does anybody know if he is,
and if so, how to reach him?

Thank you,

Laurie Budgar
Boulder, CO


Romania SIG #Romania Romanian researcher #romania

lbudgar@...
 

Some years ago, Ladislau Gyemant did some research for me. I'd like to
contact him again, but the email address I had for him didn't work. In
fact, I'm not sure if he's even still alive. Does anybody know if he is,
and if so, how to reach him?

Thank you,

Laurie Budgar
Boulder, CO


Janiv death camp and Lvov #galicia

Deborah Wiener
 

I was in Lvov in March and saw the remnant of the Golden Rose.
There is one door standing above which is a tiny plaque. The rest
is vacant land, used as a carpark. There are planks covering land
below. It is very hard to find as there is virtually no signage,
and indeed I only found it by going around a boarded up entry and
figuring out that according to my map that must be where it was.

I was with a group (Father Desbois ) and certainly there were no
overt signs of any camp memorials and we were not told of any. Au
contraire, we visited the forest of Lisnitchi where there were
killings and are numerous mass graves and there are no signs there
either.

Debbie Wiener, Melbourne
dwiener@tpg.com.au


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Janiv death camp and Lvov #galicia

Deborah Wiener
 

I was in Lvov in March and saw the remnant of the Golden Rose.
There is one door standing above which is a tiny plaque. The rest
is vacant land, used as a carpark. There are planks covering land
below. It is very hard to find as there is virtually no signage,
and indeed I only found it by going around a boarded up entry and
figuring out that according to my map that must be where it was.

I was with a group (Father Desbois ) and certainly there were no
overt signs of any camp memorials and we were not told of any. Au
contraire, we visited the forest of Lisnitchi where there were
killings and are numerous mass graves and there are no signs there
either.

Debbie Wiener, Melbourne
dwiener@tpg.com.au


Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Paul Silbert <msilbert@...>
 

The idea that the Jews of Eastern Europe are somehow derived >from the
Jews of Spain does not bear up under close examination. The Spanish
Jews, when they were expelled in 1492, chose to emigrate to North
Africa, Italy or the Ottoman Empire, all of which border the
Mediterranean. This is the region in which Ladino (Judeo-Spanish)
became prevalent.

The Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, on the other hand, spoke Yiddish
(Judeo-German), which shows that they derived >from German-speaking
countries. The Romance lexical elements in Yiddish come, not >from
Spanish, but >from Old French and Old Italian, which makes sense in that
the Jews of Germany came originally >from France and Italy.

Paul Silbert
Perth, Western Australia


Latvia SIG #Latvia Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Paul Silbert <msilbert@...>
 

The idea that the Jews of Eastern Europe are somehow derived >from the
Jews of Spain does not bear up under close examination. The Spanish
Jews, when they were expelled in 1492, chose to emigrate to North
Africa, Italy or the Ottoman Empire, all of which border the
Mediterranean. This is the region in which Ladino (Judeo-Spanish)
became prevalent.

The Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, on the other hand, spoke Yiddish
(Judeo-German), which shows that they derived >from German-speaking
countries. The Romance lexical elements in Yiddish come, not >from
Spanish, but >from Old French and Old Italian, which makes sense in that
the Jews of Germany came originally >from France and Italy.

Paul Silbert
Perth, Western Australia


Re: Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Judy Simon
 

If you are an Ashkenazi male with the surname Peretz and you want to
find out if your deep ancestry could have been Sephardic, genetic
genealogy may answer the question for you. A Y-DNA test could show
whether you have Ashkenazi or Sephardic Y-DNA matches. Please contact
me privately if you are interested.

Judy Simon
Stony Brook, NY


Latvia SIG #Latvia re: Why do places in Eastern Europe (Galicia, Bailen, etc.) have the same names as places in Spain? #latvia

Judy Simon
 

If you are an Ashkenazi male with the surname Peretz and you want to
find out if your deep ancestry could have been Sephardic, genetic
genealogy may answer the question for you. A Y-DNA test could show
whether you have Ashkenazi or Sephardic Y-DNA matches. Please contact
me privately if you are interested.

Judy Simon
Stony Brook, NY


Commemorative Books and "Address" calendars; Cemetery in Sloboda Novomeyskaya; Perm Synagogue Records #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

On a Russian language site, 'Blackresearcher. ru", there are a number of Memorial books and Address Calendars that are available to download in their original versions. You could use a language translator in order to read the website's index, but would need to be familiar with the Russian language in order to read the books themselves in the original form.

In order to download you will need to register with the forum first. You can register at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/profile.php?mode=register

The index, Page 1, is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12 and Page 2 is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12&sort=1&order=1&start=50
The publications are in PDF and/or DJVU formats, and cover various years.

A few examples are: Commemorative book and calendar Chernigov Province [1878-1916, PDF, DJVU],Commemorative book on the Odessa School District 1913-1914 school year [1914, PDF], Commemorative book and calendar Kharkov province [1862-1909, PDF], Background and address book Kremenchug [1875, PDF], All Odessa [1901-1903, PDF], Commemorative book and e-calendar Mogilev province [1865-1916, PDF], Commemorative book Tauride province [1867, PDF], Commemorative book Vitebsk [1888, PDF], etc.

Available only for the next couple of weeks, are images of 144 gravestones at the "North Cemetery" in Sloboda Novomeyskaya, Ukraine. They were posted on the Russian forum site, JewishRoots, by 'Novomeysky" on Sept. 6, 2011, http://www.forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=239&start=20. There, you will find the file storage information (http://files.mail.ru/00YTQF). There are eight links to storage. Eight rows of graves were photographed. There is also a diagram of the cemetery.

For those of you who can read handwritten Cyrillic, 445 images of Perm Synagogue Records, in .jpeg format, are available. The information was posted on the Russian language site, IOP forum, by "Sarapul", on 3/5/09 The record information is available at: http://forum.vgd.ru/177/3886/810.htm?a=stdforum_view&o= You can use a language translator for the forum information but not for the records themselves.


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Commemorative Books and "Address" calendars; Cemetery in Sloboda Novomeyskaya; Perm Synagogue Records #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

On a Russian language site, 'Blackresearcher. ru", there are a number of Memorial books and Address Calendars that are available to download in their original versions. You could use a language translator in order to read the website's index, but would need to be familiar with the Russian language in order to read the books themselves in the original form.

In order to download you will need to register with the forum first. You can register at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/profile.php?mode=register

The index, Page 1, is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12 and Page 2 is at: http://blacksearcher.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=12&sort=1&order=1&start=50
The publications are in PDF and/or DJVU formats, and cover various years.

A few examples are: Commemorative book and calendar Chernigov Province [1878-1916, PDF, DJVU],Commemorative book on the Odessa School District 1913-1914 school year [1914, PDF], Commemorative book and calendar Kharkov province [1862-1909, PDF], Background and address book Kremenchug [1875, PDF], All Odessa [1901-1903, PDF], Commemorative book and e-calendar Mogilev province [1865-1916, PDF], Commemorative book Tauride province [1867, PDF], Commemorative book Vitebsk [1888, PDF], etc.

Available only for the next couple of weeks, are images of 144 gravestones at the "North Cemetery" in Sloboda Novomeyskaya, Ukraine. They were posted on the Russian forum site, JewishRoots, by 'Novomeysky" on Sept. 6, 2011, http://www.forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=239&start=20. There, you will find the file storage information (http://files.mail.ru/00YTQF). There are eight links to storage. Eight rows of graves were photographed. There is also a diagram of the cemetery.

For those of you who can read handwritten Cyrillic, 445 images of Perm Synagogue Records, in .jpeg format, are available. The information was posted on the Russian language site, IOP forum, by "Sarapul", on 3/5/09 The record information is available at: http://forum.vgd.ru/177/3886/810.htm?a=stdforum_view&o= You can use a language translator for the forum information but not for the records themselves.


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Chernihiv: Revolutionary Jewish Youth #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

There is a short list of young people who were involved in the pre-revolutionary underground movement in Chernihiv. The list is based on the following Russian sources: memories of a Bolshevik C. Urine (02.09.1957g.) Vospominatiya Yu Kotsyubynsky in the journal "Annals of the revolution" â?? 2 in 1927.; Memories V. Primakov, EA Zhuravleva ("Red Cossacks." Memories of veterans. Voenizdat 1969. ) I. Kotsyubinskaya "Michael Kotsjubinsky" f. 1969., Dubinsky I. "The trumpeters trumpeting alarm" BM 1962.

The list was posted on Jewish Roots by "scool" on 4/18, 2011 & can be found at: http://forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2091


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Chernihiv: Revolutionary Jewish Youth #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

There is a short list of young people who were involved in the pre-revolutionary underground movement in Chernihiv. The list is based on the following Russian sources: memories of a Bolshevik C. Urine (02.09.1957g.) Vospominatiya Yu Kotsyubynsky in the journal "Annals of the revolution" â?? 2 in 1927.; Memories V. Primakov, EA Zhuravleva ("Red Cossacks." Memories of veterans. Voenizdat 1969. ) I. Kotsyubinskaya "Michael Kotsjubinsky" f. 1969., Dubinsky I. "The trumpeters trumpeting alarm" BM 1962.

The list was posted on Jewish Roots by "scool" on 4/18, 2011 & can be found at: http://forum.j-roots.info/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2091


Use an online translator, such as Google Language Tools, to convert the website into English, if necessary:

1. http://www.google.com/language_tools

2. or download Google Toolbar (with translation capability for IE or Firefox browsers):
http://www.google.com/toolbar/ff/index.html#tracking=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20tool%20bar&tbbrand=GZAG

3. There is also "Googlebar lite" an extension for Mozilla Firefox, downloadable at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/googlebar-lite/
Marilyn Robinson
Florida

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