Date   

Totschweigetaktik #austria-czech

Helen Epstein
 

About the term Totschweigetaktik: was this tactic used in regard to
both private and public phenomena? I.e. could behavior in the living
room be ignored in this way?

Helen Epstein


Czech Things #austria-czech

Robert Fraser
 

Dear Friends,

Readers may already know about this website, but it's so
interesting and has been so useful to me, that I thought I'd
give it a fresh plug.

It's not primarily a Jewish site and most people mentioned
are probably not Jewish - but it's a good read anyway, and
most material in highly relevant to our purposes.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/fc/czechandslovakthings/index.htm

regards

Robert Fraser
Perth, Western Australia
Researching:
NOWAK; Moravia, Austria, USA and the world: EISINGER;
Moravia, Vienna, USA and the world
NAGEL; Moravia, Vienna, New York: FINKELSTEIN; Galicia,
Vienna
WORTMANN; Slovakia, USA: KRAUTERBLUTH; Poland


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Totschweigetaktik #austria-czech

Helen Epstein
 

About the term Totschweigetaktik: was this tactic used in regard to
both private and public phenomena? I.e. could behavior in the living
room be ignored in this way?

Helen Epstein


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Czech Things #austria-czech

Robert Fraser
 

Dear Friends,

Readers may already know about this website, but it's so
interesting and has been so useful to me, that I thought I'd
give it a fresh plug.

It's not primarily a Jewish site and most people mentioned
are probably not Jewish - but it's a good read anyway, and
most material in highly relevant to our purposes.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/fc/czechandslovakthings/index.htm

regards

Robert Fraser
Perth, Western Australia
Researching:
NOWAK; Moravia, Austria, USA and the world: EISINGER;
Moravia, Vienna, USA and the world
NAGEL; Moravia, Vienna, New York: FINKELSTEIN; Galicia,
Vienna
WORTMANN; Slovakia, USA: KRAUTERBLUTH; Poland


Searching: BOWER #belarus

tracysutherland5@...
 

Hi,
I am researching my grandfather, Simon BOWER, who was born in
Manchester, UK. His parents, Max(well) and Leah were born in 1881 in
'Russia' (I don't know what part, or what year they moved to the UK).
Simon's siblings included Minnie, Barnett, Harry and Manuel. Some
moved in the 1940s/50s to South Africa, Australia and possibly New
York. They may have then gone onto other countries, but we have no
details of any of them.
Love to hear any advice on the above - and on where in 'Russia'
(Belarus?Other?) Leah and Max might have been born. And what their
'Belarusian" names might look like?

Thanks,

Tracy Sutherland
Chevy Chase, MD

MODERATOR NOTE: Check all of JewishGen's resources at JewishGen.org.
Click on Getting Started. Please reply privately with additional responses.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Searching: BOWER #belarus

tracysutherland5@...
 

Hi,
I am researching my grandfather, Simon BOWER, who was born in
Manchester, UK. His parents, Max(well) and Leah were born in 1881 in
'Russia' (I don't know what part, or what year they moved to the UK).
Simon's siblings included Minnie, Barnett, Harry and Manuel. Some
moved in the 1940s/50s to South Africa, Australia and possibly New
York. They may have then gone onto other countries, but we have no
details of any of them.
Love to hear any advice on the above - and on where in 'Russia'
(Belarus?Other?) Leah and Max might have been born. And what their
'Belarusian" names might look like?

Thanks,

Tracy Sutherland
Chevy Chase, MD

MODERATOR NOTE: Check all of JewishGen's resources at JewishGen.org.
Click on Getting Started. Please reply privately with additional responses.


Names of Towns #poland

Elissa <elissa7@...>
 

I am trying to locate a few different towns.

I just received my Great Grandmother Esther Wallach Kaplan's
Naturalization Papers >from 1939.
She said she was born in Borlke, Poland? Does anyone know what town
that would be?
She also listed her children as all being >from Borlke, even though that
is not what her son Louis put on his Naturalization papers, he said he
was born in Bielsk.
They interpreted where her husband was >from as Seslevich, which I know
is Svislach... so I am sure the names were spelled wrong.
My Grandfather is referred to as Samuel throughout the papers, but his
name was not Samuel, it was Simon, I am thinking she probably had a thick
accent.
She also said she was married in Brusk.
She did put down her last residence was in Bielsk, which is correct.

Can anyone help me determined where Borlke and Brusk are or were?

Many thanks in advance,
Elissa Haden
Cathedral City, CA
KAPLAN, WALLACH, KADLUBOK,


JRI Poland #Poland Names of Towns #poland

Elissa <elissa7@...>
 

I am trying to locate a few different towns.

I just received my Great Grandmother Esther Wallach Kaplan's
Naturalization Papers >from 1939.
She said she was born in Borlke, Poland? Does anyone know what town
that would be?
She also listed her children as all being >from Borlke, even though that
is not what her son Louis put on his Naturalization papers, he said he
was born in Bielsk.
They interpreted where her husband was >from as Seslevich, which I know
is Svislach... so I am sure the names were spelled wrong.
My Grandfather is referred to as Samuel throughout the papers, but his
name was not Samuel, it was Simon, I am thinking she probably had a thick
accent.
She also said she was married in Brusk.
She did put down her last residence was in Bielsk, which is correct.

Can anyone help me determined where Borlke and Brusk are or were?

Many thanks in advance,
Elissa Haden
Cathedral City, CA
KAPLAN, WALLACH, KADLUBOK,


LIMANOWA #poland

michael Steinman <mikestei@...>
 

Has anyone any information how to get Jewish Birth records >from
town Limanowa?

None found in town registrations nor in Krakow archive. Where
would Jewish families have registered a birth around year 1915-1920?

Thanks and regards
Michael Steinman


JRI Poland #Poland LIMANOWA #poland

michael Steinman <mikestei@...>
 

Has anyone any information how to get Jewish Birth records >from
town Limanowa?

None found in town registrations nor in Krakow archive. Where
would Jewish families have registered a birth around year 1915-1920?

Thanks and regards
Michael Steinman


birth dates #lithuania

Howard Margol
 

<< From: Jonathan Alcantara <jba@dna.ie>
It seems to me that the birth dates in the Litvak records can differ
wildly >from the dates later claimed on official documents in the country
of emigration, e.g. the USA. Not just the year, but the actual birth
date used in the US can fail to correspond at all to the date in the
Litvak birth records, which presumably are accurate and recorded just
after the actual birth.I have the impression that the Litvaks just made up
birthdays for themselves in their adopted countries. I'm hoping others
can share their own experiences with this subject. >>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When comparing various dates for the same person, on different records,
several things need to be considered. Up until 1917, the Julian calendar
was used in the Russian Empire while most of the rest of the world used the
Gregorian calendar - a difference of about 10 or 12 days.

Most Jews in Eastern Europe knew their date of birth according to the
Hebrew calendar, i.e., the second night of Passover, 2 days before Rosh
Hashonah, etc. My mother left Linkuva, Lithuania in 1899 at the age of 3.
When she was getting married in Jacksonville, Florida in 1917, she needed
her date of birth. She told the Rabbi her date of birth according to the
Hebrew calendar and he provided the date of birth on the Gregorian calendar.

I would use the date of birth, as provided on the original birth record,
as the mostlikely correct date. Regarding the date of birth on the
gravestone, the deceased could not provide the information. Other family
members provided the information and their knowledge may not have been
accurate.

Even original marriage records are not always accurate. My grandfather's
brother was married three times in Linkuva, Lithuania. Each time he got
married, he got younger.

I do not think Litvaks just made up birthdays for themselves in their
adopted countries. They just did the best they could under the
circumstances.

Howard Margol
Atlanta, Georgia


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania birth dates #lithuania

Howard Margol
 

<< From: Jonathan Alcantara <jba@dna.ie>
It seems to me that the birth dates in the Litvak records can differ
wildly >from the dates later claimed on official documents in the country
of emigration, e.g. the USA. Not just the year, but the actual birth
date used in the US can fail to correspond at all to the date in the
Litvak birth records, which presumably are accurate and recorded just
after the actual birth.I have the impression that the Litvaks just made up
birthdays for themselves in their adopted countries. I'm hoping others
can share their own experiences with this subject. >>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When comparing various dates for the same person, on different records,
several things need to be considered. Up until 1917, the Julian calendar
was used in the Russian Empire while most of the rest of the world used the
Gregorian calendar - a difference of about 10 or 12 days.

Most Jews in Eastern Europe knew their date of birth according to the
Hebrew calendar, i.e., the second night of Passover, 2 days before Rosh
Hashonah, etc. My mother left Linkuva, Lithuania in 1899 at the age of 3.
When she was getting married in Jacksonville, Florida in 1917, she needed
her date of birth. She told the Rabbi her date of birth according to the
Hebrew calendar and he provided the date of birth on the Gregorian calendar.

I would use the date of birth, as provided on the original birth record,
as the mostlikely correct date. Regarding the date of birth on the
gravestone, the deceased could not provide the information. Other family
members provided the information and their knowledge may not have been
accurate.

Even original marriage records are not always accurate. My grandfather's
brother was married three times in Linkuva, Lithuania. Each time he got
married, he got younger.

I do not think Litvaks just made up birthdays for themselves in their
adopted countries. They just did the best they could under the
circumstances.

Howard Margol
Atlanta, Georgia


Re: birth dates #lithuania

Steve Adelson <sjadelson@...>
 

Very common for people prior to the 20th century not to know (or care too
much) about their birthday... Many of these people led hard lives, and had
bigger issues to deal with. Also very common for people to "fudge" their
ages a bit, often women but not exclusively. My great-grand uncle is buried
with a birthdate which is 23 months after he was born. In more recent
examples, my maternal grandmother was a year older than she claimed for most
of her life, and my paternal grandmother - deceased now for 25 years - I
only recently discovered was TWO years older than she claimed, a fact that
not even my grandfather knew.

There is also a general distrust of governments, particularly on census
forms. BMD records are more reliable, however.

Best,
Steve Adelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Alcantara [mailto:jba@dna.ie]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 6:06 PM
To: LitvakSIG
Subject: [litvaksig] birth dates

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear All,

This is the first time I am writing to the list. I have been doing family
genealogy seriously for more than four years but have only been looking at
the Litvak records for little more than one year. I am still finding my feet
when it comes to the assumptions and leaps of logic that are acceptable when
doing Litvak genealogy.

When working (for example) on 20th century New York City genealogy, one
looks for very precise information before assuming a record matches one's
ancestor, because there were so many people in New York with similar names,
and records were usually quite accurate and consistent. However, it seems to
me that with the Litvak records, one can have a situation where zero data
points (e.g., names, dates,
places) correspond entirely to family histories or official US records, and
yet the match can be correct. I'm wondering whether the experienced hands
here can provide me with a better feeling for what kinds of assumptions fall
into the range of acceptability when trying to find matching records.

My first question of this kind has to do with birth dates. It seems to me
that the birth dates in the Litvak records can differ wildly >from the dates
later claimed on official documents in the country of emigration, e.g. the
USA. Not just the year, but the actual birth date used in the US can fail to
correspond at all to the date in the Litvak birth records, which presumably
are accurate and recorded just after the actual birth. "Normally", I would
take this discrepancy as evidence of a false match, given that many people
had the same names.
But I have the impression that the Litvaks just made up birthdays for
themselves in their adopted countries. I'm hoping others can share their own
experiences with this subject. My example:

My great-grandmother Bessie Henderson Gordon seems to originally have been
Hoda Bosha Gindes >from Pumpenai, born May 1, 1876 according to the Litvak
records. Her tombstone in New York records her birth date as October
19,1881. This means she was claiming she was 5 years younger than she
actually was. I imagine my family would have celebrated her birthday on
October 19, since that is what ended up on her tombstone - but how did they
arrive at this date, especially if her "real" birthdate was May 1?

There is more evidence that she liked to claim a false younger age.
On the 1920 US census, she claimed she was 36, when she would have been 38
(1881 date) or 43 (Litvak 1876 date). On the 1930 census, she claimed she
was 42, so she shifted her birth year even four years earlier. She was
either 48 or 53 in reality, i.e. 10+ years older.
Her "official" date of 1881 made her one year younger than her husband. She
claimed to be two years younger than him in 1920 and 1930, when he was
actually likely to have been 3 or 4 years younger than she. One wonders if
he knew her true age; but they may have both been >from Pumpenai, and
presumably he would have known her age if they were >from the same town.

Her Litvak records were pointed out to me by a more experienced genealogist,
and the Gindes family seemed to match what was known about her Henderson
family (of Baltimore, MD), with no other record in Lithuania matching at
all; except, of course, for Bessie's birthdate, which seemed to me too far
apart >from what was on her grave. These doubts led to a year of research on
death certificates, family graves, census records and ship manifests, which
all matched up and now seems to confirm 99.9% that the Gindes family of
Pumpenai are in fact my Hendersons, and my great-grandmother fiddled her
official age by 5 years and made up an entirely new birth date, for whatever
reason.

Thanks in advance for any insights you can offer on this subject.

Jonathan Alcantara
Oxfordshire, UK


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania RE: birth dates #lithuania

Steve Adelson <sjadelson@...>
 

Very common for people prior to the 20th century not to know (or care too
much) about their birthday... Many of these people led hard lives, and had
bigger issues to deal with. Also very common for people to "fudge" their
ages a bit, often women but not exclusively. My great-grand uncle is buried
with a birthdate which is 23 months after he was born. In more recent
examples, my maternal grandmother was a year older than she claimed for most
of her life, and my paternal grandmother - deceased now for 25 years - I
only recently discovered was TWO years older than she claimed, a fact that
not even my grandfather knew.

There is also a general distrust of governments, particularly on census
forms. BMD records are more reliable, however.

Best,
Steve Adelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Alcantara [mailto:jba@dna.ie]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 6:06 PM
To: LitvakSIG
Subject: [litvaksig] birth dates

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear All,

This is the first time I am writing to the list. I have been doing family
genealogy seriously for more than four years but have only been looking at
the Litvak records for little more than one year. I am still finding my feet
when it comes to the assumptions and leaps of logic that are acceptable when
doing Litvak genealogy.

When working (for example) on 20th century New York City genealogy, one
looks for very precise information before assuming a record matches one's
ancestor, because there were so many people in New York with similar names,
and records were usually quite accurate and consistent. However, it seems to
me that with the Litvak records, one can have a situation where zero data
points (e.g., names, dates,
places) correspond entirely to family histories or official US records, and
yet the match can be correct. I'm wondering whether the experienced hands
here can provide me with a better feeling for what kinds of assumptions fall
into the range of acceptability when trying to find matching records.

My first question of this kind has to do with birth dates. It seems to me
that the birth dates in the Litvak records can differ wildly >from the dates
later claimed on official documents in the country of emigration, e.g. the
USA. Not just the year, but the actual birth date used in the US can fail to
correspond at all to the date in the Litvak birth records, which presumably
are accurate and recorded just after the actual birth. "Normally", I would
take this discrepancy as evidence of a false match, given that many people
had the same names.
But I have the impression that the Litvaks just made up birthdays for
themselves in their adopted countries. I'm hoping others can share their own
experiences with this subject. My example:

My great-grandmother Bessie Henderson Gordon seems to originally have been
Hoda Bosha Gindes >from Pumpenai, born May 1, 1876 according to the Litvak
records. Her tombstone in New York records her birth date as October
19,1881. This means she was claiming she was 5 years younger than she
actually was. I imagine my family would have celebrated her birthday on
October 19, since that is what ended up on her tombstone - but how did they
arrive at this date, especially if her "real" birthdate was May 1?

There is more evidence that she liked to claim a false younger age.
On the 1920 US census, she claimed she was 36, when she would have been 38
(1881 date) or 43 (Litvak 1876 date). On the 1930 census, she claimed she
was 42, so she shifted her birth year even four years earlier. She was
either 48 or 53 in reality, i.e. 10+ years older.
Her "official" date of 1881 made her one year younger than her husband. She
claimed to be two years younger than him in 1920 and 1930, when he was
actually likely to have been 3 or 4 years younger than she. One wonders if
he knew her true age; but they may have both been >from Pumpenai, and
presumably he would have known her age if they were >from the same town.

Her Litvak records were pointed out to me by a more experienced genealogist,
and the Gindes family seemed to match what was known about her Henderson
family (of Baltimore, MD), with no other record in Lithuania matching at
all; except, of course, for Bessie's birthdate, which seemed to me too far
apart >from what was on her grave. These doubts led to a year of research on
death certificates, family graves, census records and ship manifests, which
all matched up and now seems to confirm 99.9% that the Gindes family of
Pumpenai are in fact my Hendersons, and my great-grandmother fiddled her
official age by 5 years and made up an entirely new birth date, for whatever
reason.

Thanks in advance for any insights you can offer on this subject.

Jonathan Alcantara
Oxfordshire, UK


Translation from Yiddish? Also two photos for identification: SORKIN and ??? #belarus

Martha Forsyth
 

I've posted several photos on ViewMate.

I am looking for a translation of this one, which I believe to be
Yiddish (but I can't even begin to read it myself!):
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21265

That message appears the back of this photo:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21453
and may help us to identify the young sailor with such a nice face.

In addition there is this:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21266
labelled "Mrs. Sorkin". The photo was taken in Ekaterinoslav.

Please respond either on ViewMate, or to me privately.

Thanks very much.
Martha Forsyth
Newton, MA


Belarus SIG #Belarus Translation from Yiddish? Also two photos for identification: SORKIN and ??? #belarus

Martha Forsyth
 

I've posted several photos on ViewMate.

I am looking for a translation of this one, which I believe to be
Yiddish (but I can't even begin to read it myself!):
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21265

That message appears the back of this photo:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21453
and may help us to identify the young sailor with such a nice face.

In addition there is this:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21266
labelled "Mrs. Sorkin". The photo was taken in Ekaterinoslav.

Please respond either on ViewMate, or to me privately.

Thanks very much.
Martha Forsyth
Newton, MA


Collaboration as a result of Facebook? Maybe #latvia

Michael Eliastam <eliastamm@...>
 

Can these two get together for all of us? Joyaa asks for help with
spreadsheet, and Jan says he has that skill. So?

Jan offers:

Subject: Volunteering/Facebook page
From: Jan Rabinowitz <janrab@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 03:47:54 -0800 (PST)

Thanks for setting up the FB page! I don't have a huge amount of extra time and few
usable skills, but I'm willing to help with whatever I can. I'm good at Word and Excel,
can't read Russian or Yiddish. But if you let me know what types of things need to be
done, I'll happily pick one or two out!


Latvia SIG #Latvia Collaboration as a result of Facebook? Maybe #latvia

Michael Eliastam <eliastamm@...>
 

Can these two get together for all of us? Joyaa asks for help with
spreadsheet, and Jan says he has that skill. So?

Jan offers:

Subject: Volunteering/Facebook page
From: Jan Rabinowitz <janrab@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 03:47:54 -0800 (PST)

Thanks for setting up the FB page! I don't have a huge amount of extra time and few
usable skills, but I'm willing to help with whatever I can. I'm good at Word and Excel,
can't read Russian or Yiddish. But if you let me know what types of things need to be
done, I'll happily pick one or two out!


Re: BOWER #unitedkingdom

Ron Bower <ruebin7@...>
 

HI,

I suggest you might search Bauer, my family came >from Central Europe and the
spelling was changed to Bower. I don't believe Bower is a Eastern European
name.

Regards
Ron Bower
Melbourne

-----Original Message-----
From: tracy sutherland [mailto:tracysutherland5@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:58 AM
To: Latvia SIG
Subject: [latvia] BOWER


Hi,

I am researching my grandfather, Simon Bower, who was born in
Manchester, UK. His parents, Max(well) and Leah were born in 1881 in
'Russia' (I don't know what part, or what year they moved to the UK).
Simon's siblings included Minnie, Barnett, Harry and Manuel. Some
moved in the 1940s/50s to South Africa, Australia and possibly New
York. They may have then gone onto other countries, but we have no
details of any of them.

Love to hear any advice on the above - and on where in 'Russia'
(Latvia?Other?) Leah and Max might have been born. Thanks, Tracy


Latvia SIG #Latvia RE: BOWER #latvia

Ron Bower <ruebin7@...>
 

HI,

I suggest you might search Bauer, my family came >from Central Europe and the
spelling was changed to Bower. I don't believe Bower is a Eastern European
name.

Regards
Ron Bower
Melbourne

-----Original Message-----
From: tracy sutherland [mailto:tracysutherland5@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:58 AM
To: Latvia SIG
Subject: [latvia] BOWER


Hi,

I am researching my grandfather, Simon Bower, who was born in
Manchester, UK. His parents, Max(well) and Leah were born in 1881 in
'Russia' (I don't know what part, or what year they moved to the UK).
Simon's siblings included Minnie, Barnett, Harry and Manuel. Some
moved in the 1940s/50s to South Africa, Australia and possibly New
York. They may have then gone onto other countries, but we have no
details of any of them.

Love to hear any advice on the above - and on where in 'Russia'
(Latvia?Other?) Leah and Max might have been born. Thanks, Tracy

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