Date   

Hungarian cemeteries #hungary

Joyce Field <jfield@...>
 

We now have a researcher in Budapest who will be indexing Hungarian
cemeteries for the ONLINE WORLDWIDE BURIAL REGISTRY program, which
you can read about at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Cemetery/.

Feel free to recommend a cemetery whose gravestones you would like
photographed and the data indexed by writing to Lou Schonfeld. In
addition, please help the project by contributing funds to pay for
the work. The money will be used to pay a modest salary and
expenses to this researcher and to pay for needed equipment for the
project.

Tax-deductible donations should be made to the Photograph Jewish
Tombstones project at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Hungary.html.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP Research
jfield@jewishgen.org


Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary

Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

"JB/R" == Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@bogardi.com> writes:
JB/R> - permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
JB/R> of Interior

Are these records still extant?

While on the subject of surname changes. Could someone help me with a
puzzle?

(Thanks to Paul Lindhardt extensive work, which helped me tremendously.)

My maternal ggm was born CSILLAG, married my ggf as CSILLAG, gave
birth to my gf and his brother as STERN, died as Csillag.

The actual questions.

Why should two of her children be registered as STERN?

As far as I know, the family has always been Orthodox, so assimilation
doesn't seem to be a reason for the original CSILLAG.

<chaim>

P.S. Anyone have any connections to STERN/CSILLAG >from (Nyir)Bokony?

--
Chaim Frenkel Nonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
chaimf@pobox.com +1-718-236-0183


Re: * Magyarositas #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

AttilaRona@aol.com schrieb:

Hi Tom,

I think, that "magyarositás" had roots in the fact that "Greater" Hungary had
only a little more than 50% Hungarian population, and this was a way to
increase the percentage. The theory was that if someone had a Hungarian name, spoke
Hungarian and this way had a Hungarian culture, he or she was Hungarian no matter where
he or she came from. I find this quite liberal.
Hungary had even after Trianon several nationalities, German, Slav, Roman and Hungarian
names were quite common. If you lived in a small settlement, and this was a big part of the
country everybody new if you were Jewish. There was also some other practical reason to
change your name, the spelling problem you had with less educated persons. German names
were quite common not only by Jewish but the Sachs, the Schwab origins as well and as a
remainder of the Monarchy.

It was may be quite different after WW2, persons with German, Slovak roots were resettled
and after the quite negative experience during the Shoa as well as the negative effect of
the communist regime (many Jews were shop-keepers, self-employed = exploiter) moved to
bigger centers, to Budapest or to places were they were unknown and they used the
opportunity to leave there past behind by changing their names. If I am correct, there were
some rules, the new name had to start with the same letter, or it was a translation or
indicated origin the ending of -y was not accepted because it indicated noble origin.

I might be wrong, but I thought people had  to get only their grandparents
birth certificate during the Horthy regime.
I think this is not correct. I have >from the archive of my hometown a call for every
employee to prove the Christian origin including grandparents, married employees 11 pieces,
unmarried ones 10 documents had to present. The ones with military documents had to present
this, the ones in military service don't need to present anything. I remember how my father
tried to collect all the necessary documents >from many different sources.

Attila Róna
 
Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Re: Nagykanizsa #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Hunter schrieb:

Dear H-SIGers,

Is there anyone doing any work on the Jewish population of Nagykanizsa?
The town owed its prosperity to its Jewish population before the war, yet there seems to
be no interest now in tracing what happened to these people  - who was deported, when and
where to, and who returned.  Is there any work being done on the cemetery there?
My family lived there for generations, yet I can't seem to trace any record
of their even having existed.  I even know where they lived, but even this
does not seem to stride a chord with anyone.

Does anyone have information?

Marianne
Sudney, Australia
Last year we visited Zalakaros a thermal bath near Nagykanizsa. We visited also the Jewish
community, as by chance the shortly before elected president was our house lord (Dr. Fejer
Laszlo). In the community center they showed us proudly a memorial book of the Holocaust
Martyr's, it was if I am correct >from the end of forties or fifties, handwritten and
contained about 3000 names but no other information (if I remember correctly), so at least
from this period there should be some documents but it don't has to be complete.
Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary

AttilaRona@...
 

This book is either published or going to be published in Hungary.

Attila R=F3na


Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian cemeteries #hungary

Joyce Field <jfield@...>
 

We now have a researcher in Budapest who will be indexing Hungarian
cemeteries for the ONLINE WORLDWIDE BURIAL REGISTRY program, which
you can read about at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Cemetery/.

Feel free to recommend a cemetery whose gravestones you would like
photographed and the data indexed by writing to Lou Schonfeld. In
addition, please help the project by contributing funds to pay for
the work. The money will be used to pay a modest salary and
expenses to this researcher and to pay for needed equipment for the
project.

Tax-deductible donations should be made to the Photograph Jewish
Tombstones project at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Hungary.html.

Joyce Field
JewishGen VP Research
jfield@jewishgen.org


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary

Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

"JB/R" == Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@bogardi.com> writes:
JB/R> - permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
JB/R> of Interior

Are these records still extant?

While on the subject of surname changes. Could someone help me with a
puzzle?

(Thanks to Paul Lindhardt extensive work, which helped me tremendously.)

My maternal ggm was born CSILLAG, married my ggf as CSILLAG, gave
birth to my gf and his brother as STERN, died as Csillag.

The actual questions.

Why should two of her children be registered as STERN?

As far as I know, the family has always been Orthodox, so assimilation
doesn't seem to be a reason for the original CSILLAG.

<chaim>

P.S. Anyone have any connections to STERN/CSILLAG >from (Nyir)Bokony?

--
Chaim Frenkel Nonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
chaimf@pobox.com +1-718-236-0183


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: * Magyarositas #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

AttilaRona@aol.com schrieb:

Hi Tom,

I think, that "magyarositás" had roots in the fact that "Greater" Hungary had
only a little more than 50% Hungarian population, and this was a way to
increase the percentage. The theory was that if someone had a Hungarian name, spoke
Hungarian and this way had a Hungarian culture, he or she was Hungarian no matter where
he or she came from. I find this quite liberal.
Hungary had even after Trianon several nationalities, German, Slav, Roman and Hungarian
names were quite common. If you lived in a small settlement, and this was a big part of the
country everybody new if you were Jewish. There was also some other practical reason to
change your name, the spelling problem you had with less educated persons. German names
were quite common not only by Jewish but the Sachs, the Schwab origins as well and as a
remainder of the Monarchy.

It was may be quite different after WW2, persons with German, Slovak roots were resettled
and after the quite negative experience during the Shoa as well as the negative effect of
the communist regime (many Jews were shop-keepers, self-employed = exploiter) moved to
bigger centers, to Budapest or to places were they were unknown and they used the
opportunity to leave there past behind by changing their names. If I am correct, there were
some rules, the new name had to start with the same letter, or it was a translation or
indicated origin the ending of -y was not accepted because it indicated noble origin.

I might be wrong, but I thought people had  to get only their grandparents
birth certificate during the Horthy regime.
I think this is not correct. I have >from the archive of my hometown a call for every
employee to prove the Christian origin including grandparents, married employees 11 pieces,
unmarried ones 10 documents had to present. The ones with military documents had to present
this, the ones in military service don't need to present anything. I remember how my father
tried to collect all the necessary documents >from many different sources.

Attila Róna
 
Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Nagykanizsa #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Hunter schrieb:

Dear H-SIGers,

Is there anyone doing any work on the Jewish population of Nagykanizsa?
The town owed its prosperity to its Jewish population before the war, yet there seems to
be no interest now in tracing what happened to these people  - who was deported, when and
where to, and who returned.  Is there any work being done on the cemetery there?
My family lived there for generations, yet I can't seem to trace any record
of their even having existed.  I even know where they lived, but even this
does not seem to stride a chord with anyone.

Does anyone have information?

Marianne
Sudney, Australia
Last year we visited Zalakaros a thermal bath near Nagykanizsa. We visited also the Jewish
community, as by chance the shortly before elected president was our house lord (Dr. Fejer
Laszlo). In the community center they showed us proudly a memorial book of the Holocaust
Martyr's, it was if I am correct >from the end of forties or fifties, handwritten and
contained about 3000 names but no other information (if I remember correctly), so at least
from this period there should be some documents but it don't has to be complete.
Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary

AttilaRona@...
 

This book is either published or going to be published in Hungary.

Attila R=F3na


Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary

Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@...>
 

Dear Chaim and listers,

Chaim Frenkel wrote:

"JB/R" == Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@bogardi.com> writes:
JB/R> - permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
JB/R> of Interior

Are these records still extant?
I do not have extensive experience with them. In the two cases I have had so far
I was lucky both times: the files were available. (The archives of the Hungarian
Ministry of Interior can be found in the old building of the Hungarian National
Archives: Budapest's Becsikapu ter.) The files included official correspondence
between the ministry office and county authorities, certificates by local
authorities, and in one of the cases also the original application of the person
who wanted to change his surname. In this latter he gave the reasons for the
change, and his original signature could be found at the bottom, too. Good if you
are curious about the handwriting of the person <g>.

Due to the large amount of documents handled and stored in the archives of this
government body, there was systematic weeding out of files after a certain period
of time. I do not know if files containing surname changes were affected by this
or not.

One more thing to consider. This subject is somewhat sensitive. It is a common
practice in Hungarian archives, just like in any archives, that files get closed
for a certain period. I am not sure how long this period is in case of a surname
change.

The clerk responsible for the Ministry of Interior files in the archives could
provide the missing information. Perhaps somebody visiting the archives soon
could contact him/her, or, next time I am there, I could also ask for some
guidance.

While on the subject of surname changes. Could someone help me with a
puzzle?

(Thanks to Paul Lindhardt extensive work, which helped me tremendously.)

My maternal ggm was born CSILLAG, married my ggf as CSILLAG, gave
birth to my gf and his brother as STERN, died as Csillag.

The actual questions.

Why should two of her children be registered as STERN?

As far as I know, the family has always been Orthodox, so assimilation
doesn't seem to be a reason for the original CSILLAG.
Sure this will not solve your puzzle, it is still remarkable that it were not
only adult age people who changed their surnames: quite often underage people had
name changes, too. Obviously their parents arranged things for them like this.

Hope this helps.

Janos Bogardi / Radix.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary

Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@...>
 

Dear Chaim and listers,

Chaim Frenkel wrote:

"JB/R" == Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@bogardi.com> writes:
JB/R> - permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
JB/R> of Interior

Are these records still extant?
I do not have extensive experience with them. In the two cases I have had so far
I was lucky both times: the files were available. (The archives of the Hungarian
Ministry of Interior can be found in the old building of the Hungarian National
Archives: Budapest's Becsikapu ter.) The files included official correspondence
between the ministry office and county authorities, certificates by local
authorities, and in one of the cases also the original application of the person
who wanted to change his surname. In this latter he gave the reasons for the
change, and his original signature could be found at the bottom, too. Good if you
are curious about the handwriting of the person <g>.

Due to the large amount of documents handled and stored in the archives of this
government body, there was systematic weeding out of files after a certain period
of time. I do not know if files containing surname changes were affected by this
or not.

One more thing to consider. This subject is somewhat sensitive. It is a common
practice in Hungarian archives, just like in any archives, that files get closed
for a certain period. I am not sure how long this period is in case of a surname
change.

The clerk responsible for the Ministry of Interior files in the archives could
provide the missing information. Perhaps somebody visiting the archives soon
could contact him/her, or, next time I am there, I could also ask for some
guidance.

While on the subject of surname changes. Could someone help me with a
puzzle?

(Thanks to Paul Lindhardt extensive work, which helped me tremendously.)

My maternal ggm was born CSILLAG, married my ggf as CSILLAG, gave
birth to my gf and his brother as STERN, died as Csillag.

The actual questions.

Why should two of her children be registered as STERN?

As far as I know, the family has always been Orthodox, so assimilation
doesn't seem to be a reason for the original CSILLAG.
Sure this will not solve your puzzle, it is still remarkable that it were not
only adult age people who changed their surnames: quite often underage people had
name changes, too. Obviously their parents arranged things for them like this.

Hope this helps.

Janos Bogardi / Radix.


Handwriting help-ViewMate VM-269 #ukraine

Jhayflick@...
 

Please take a moment and view the handwriting sample (underlined red) and ink
stamped photograph of my GGF currently at JewishGen ViewMate vm#269.
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/toview88.html#vm269

Can you read (and translate?) the handwriting. What does it say? Can you
tell me about the blue ink stamp? Can you date the piece?

Thank you for the time and help.

Joel Hayflick

HAYFLICK/HAYFLICH/HOEFLICH: Philadelphia, PA; OR, NY, FL, USA; Kiyev, Ukraine
HECKLER/HECHLER/HAGLER: Philadelphia, PA; Alsace, France
GOODFRIEND: Philadelphia, PA; Budapest, Hungary
SILBER/ZILBER/SILBERT: Lithuania; PA; Beaumont, TX
ORTT/ORD: Pennsylvania; Palatinate, Germany
POLLACK: Camden, NJ; Warsaw, Poland
SPOTKOWSKY/SPTKOVSKII: Kiyev, Ukraine

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please reply privately to this message.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Handwriting help-ViewMate VM-269 #ukraine

Jhayflick@...
 

Please take a moment and view the handwriting sample (underlined red) and ink
stamped photograph of my GGF currently at JewishGen ViewMate vm#269.
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/toview88.html#vm269

Can you read (and translate?) the handwriting. What does it say? Can you
tell me about the blue ink stamp? Can you date the piece?

Thank you for the time and help.

Joel Hayflick

HAYFLICK/HAYFLICH/HOEFLICH: Philadelphia, PA; OR, NY, FL, USA; Kiyev, Ukraine
HECKLER/HECHLER/HAGLER: Philadelphia, PA; Alsace, France
GOODFRIEND: Philadelphia, PA; Budapest, Hungary
SILBER/ZILBER/SILBERT: Lithuania; PA; Beaumont, TX
ORTT/ORD: Pennsylvania; Palatinate, Germany
POLLACK: Camden, NJ; Warsaw, Poland
SPOTKOWSKY/SPTKOVSKII: Kiyev, Ukraine

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please reply privately to this message.


Missing e-mail addresses for Raseiniai Group #lithuania

DBH12345
 

The Raseiniai District Research Group has been distributing files. The
following people's email keep bouncing. Could you get in touch with me so
that I can catch you up with the last ten or twelve sets of documents.

David L. Olesky, Norman Feldman and Allan Blacher please contact me
privately. If anyone else has not received files recently, please contact me too.

David Hoffman
Coordinator, Raseiniai District Research Group
DBH12345@aol.com


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Missing e-mail addresses for Raseiniai Group #lithuania

DBH12345
 

The Raseiniai District Research Group has been distributing files. The
following people's email keep bouncing. Could you get in touch with me so
that I can catch you up with the last ten or twelve sets of documents.

David L. Olesky, Norman Feldman and Allan Blacher please contact me
privately. If anyone else has not received files recently, please contact me too.

David Hoffman
Coordinator, Raseiniai District Research Group
DBH12345@aol.com


Inheritance Files in Kaunas Archives #lithuania

Knud and Lorraine Bertelsen <klb@...>
 

Further to David Hoffman's message dated 8th January 2001, in which he
referred to modern wills in the Kaunas Archives, he also said :

<<<Another exciting finding regarding these wills is that they include
many surnames that have not appeared on other documents which Vitalija has
researched in the Kaunas Regional Archives. This is because many lawyers,
doctors, wealthy merchants >from various towns, and even clerks and other
educated people who had been excluded >from the revision and family lists
because of their status...>>>

This is the first time I have heard about the possibility that the names of well-known or educated people (and their families?) might have not been recorded on revision or family lists because of their status.

Can anyone please comment further on this?

I am puzzled by the absence of the name in the Odessa records of one of my
late GF's sisters. She was an opera singer and perished in the Odessa
Ghetto, but although Galina was able to find many records relating to my
GF's family, she was unable to find any reference to his murdered sister,
who was born in ca. 1898 in Odessa. This is strange as Galina was able to
find my GGPs' 1894 marriage record, and the birth records of my GF (1894)
and his other 3 siblings in 1902, 1908 and 1912, plus some earlier records
from the mid-1870s, and my Mother's 1921 birth record.
Would this "removal" or "non-listing" of records relating to certain
people of "high" status have been generally practised, under the Tsars, and/or perhaps just under the Bolsheviks/Communists?

Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho Downunder


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Inheritance Files in Kaunas Archives #lithuania

Knud and Lorraine Bertelsen <klb@...>
 

Further to David Hoffman's message dated 8th January 2001, in which he
referred to modern wills in the Kaunas Archives, he also said :

<<<Another exciting finding regarding these wills is that they include
many surnames that have not appeared on other documents which Vitalija has
researched in the Kaunas Regional Archives. This is because many lawyers,
doctors, wealthy merchants >from various towns, and even clerks and other
educated people who had been excluded >from the revision and family lists
because of their status...>>>

This is the first time I have heard about the possibility that the names of well-known or educated people (and their families?) might have not been recorded on revision or family lists because of their status.

Can anyone please comment further on this?

I am puzzled by the absence of the name in the Odessa records of one of my
late GF's sisters. She was an opera singer and perished in the Odessa
Ghetto, but although Galina was able to find many records relating to my
GF's family, she was unable to find any reference to his murdered sister,
who was born in ca. 1898 in Odessa. This is strange as Galina was able to
find my GGPs' 1894 marriage record, and the birth records of my GF (1894)
and his other 3 siblings in 1902, 1908 and 1912, plus some earlier records
from the mid-1870s, and my Mother's 1921 birth record.
Would this "removal" or "non-listing" of records relating to certain
people of "high" status have been generally practised, under the Tsars, and/or perhaps just under the Bolsheviks/Communists?

Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho Downunder


ViewMate site #lithuania

HeshieT
 

Please take a look at (http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/) in the "To View" section - as file - VM280

Hopefully someone will recognize these people.

Sincerely,
Hesh
Harold W. Traub, JGSPBC
8936 Old Pine Road
Boca Raton, FL 33433-3151
Phone & Fax 561-487-6679
Email < HeshieT@aol.com >

Researching: TRAUB, KATZ, Utena, Vilkomir, Lith.; BAREL, MOSKOWITZ, Galicia.ZURLIN. MARGOLIS, Genitchesk, HEYMOWSKY, Melitopl, Ukraine.
STEINBERG, (STEINBRUCH), BOMBACH, GROSSBERG, Lviv & Zloczow, Galicia.
WITTMAN, Rozwadow, Galicia


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania ViewMate site #lithuania

HeshieT
 

Please take a look at (http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/) in the "To View" section - as file - VM280

Hopefully someone will recognize these people.

Sincerely,
Hesh
Harold W. Traub, JGSPBC
8936 Old Pine Road
Boca Raton, FL 33433-3151
Phone & Fax 561-487-6679
Email < HeshieT@aol.com >

Researching: TRAUB, KATZ, Utena, Vilkomir, Lith.; BAREL, MOSKOWITZ, Galicia.ZURLIN. MARGOLIS, Genitchesk, HEYMOWSKY, Melitopl, Ukraine.
STEINBERG, (STEINBRUCH), BOMBACH, GROSSBERG, Lviv & Zloczow, Galicia.
WITTMAN, Rozwadow, Galicia