Date   

Mamaliga #bessarabia

RuthrSF@...
 

I love Mamaliga and I am sure a lot of us love it too. It is a dish=20
that many of our grandparents made for us. Here is a fun Youtube with=20
many pictures of Mamliga recipes. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4pkeTQoJ55c

Ruth Rosenthal
Novato CA

ANDELMAN AND ROSENTHAL: BrichanyI
FREMERMAN: Briceva
ROSEMAN: Bessarabia


Bessarabia SIG #Bessarabia Mamaliga #bessarabia

RuthrSF@...
 

I love Mamaliga and I am sure a lot of us love it too. It is a dish=20
that many of our grandparents made for us. Here is a fun Youtube with=20
many pictures of Mamliga recipes. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4pkeTQoJ55c

Ruth Rosenthal
Novato CA

ANDELMAN AND ROSENTHAL: BrichanyI
FREMERMAN: Briceva
ROSEMAN: Bessarabia


Getting documents from the Ukrainian archives #ukraine

Hana Abdul-Haq <abdulhaq.hana@...>
 

I'm looking for advice regarding documents >from the Ukrainian archives
if anyone had some experiences with them. Since I don't speak Russian
and my Hebrew is extremely basic what chances do I have to get
documents out of the archives? I'm talking more specifically about
Kiev and Lutsk, possibly Zhitomir. Would the people >from the archives
help if I have the dates and names for the people I'm doing the
research or will I be completely on my own?

I'm trying to compare the benefits of me traveling to Ukraine vs
hiring a researcher. Please email me your thoughts and experiences.
Thank you.

Hana


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Getting documents from the Ukrainian archives #ukraine

Hana Abdul-Haq <abdulhaq.hana@...>
 

I'm looking for advice regarding documents >from the Ukrainian archives
if anyone had some experiences with them. Since I don't speak Russian
and my Hebrew is extremely basic what chances do I have to get
documents out of the archives? I'm talking more specifically about
Kiev and Lutsk, possibly Zhitomir. Would the people >from the archives
help if I have the dates and names for the people I'm doing the
research or will I be completely on my own?

I'm trying to compare the benefits of me traveling to Ukraine vs
hiring a researcher. Please email me your thoughts and experiences.
Thank you.

Hana


Re: German question #germany

Tobias A. Kemper <kemper@...>
 

Hello,

Her real name was Amalia HUMBERG HERZ. Her nickname, and the only
name I knew until I got into genealogy, was pronounced Mah luh.
Ma-Lu is a common short form / nickname for names like Marie Louise. In
this case, Ma is abbreviated >from Amalia; Lu semms to be abbreviated
from a second name (I'm almost sure: Louise).
My mom thinks it was spelled Male in German .
If it was spelled Male, then it was not pronounciated with a short /u/,
but with a schwa at the end.

In this case, "Male" seems to be a short form of the name Amalie.

Regards, Tobias A. Kemper, Alfter, Germany, Europe, tobias.kemper@web.de

Moderator Note: The female given names Amalia / Amalie are related to Emily (and variations).
A great-aunt Amalia in my own family was often called Malchen - another familiar variation.
I found many derivations and variations with a web search for "the German name Amalia".
***** please send further comments off list to <lin2@cfl.rr.com> *****


German SIG #Germany Re: German question #germany

Tobias A. Kemper <kemper@...>
 

Hello,

Her real name was Amalia HUMBERG HERZ. Her nickname, and the only
name I knew until I got into genealogy, was pronounced Mah luh.
Ma-Lu is a common short form / nickname for names like Marie Louise. In
this case, Ma is abbreviated >from Amalia; Lu semms to be abbreviated
from a second name (I'm almost sure: Louise).
My mom thinks it was spelled Male in German .
If it was spelled Male, then it was not pronounciated with a short /u/,
but with a schwa at the end.

In this case, "Male" seems to be a short form of the name Amalie.

Regards, Tobias A. Kemper, Alfter, Germany, Europe, tobias.kemper@web.de

Moderator Note: The female given names Amalia / Amalie are related to Emily (and variations).
A great-aunt Amalia in my own family was often called Malchen - another familiar variation.
I found many derivations and variations with a web search for "the German name Amalia".
***** please send further comments off list to <lin2@cfl.rr.com> *****


Re: German question #germany

Roger Lustig
 

Dear Lin:

"Male" was definitely a common short form of Amalie and similar names.
I've also seen it spelled "Mahle."

If your relatives don't speak German they may have trouble with quite a
few names. You may want to add a pronunciation guide.

Changing things without explanation is never a good idea in my
experience. If one of your relatives wishes to do research some day,
they'll run up against your phonetic spelling and may be misled by
it--and that's hardly why you're doing this for them! So if you can add
footnotes or a box containing pronunciation info to your tree chart,
that's probably the best thing. Not as elegant, but sometimes necessary.

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ research coordinator, GerSIG

On 10/6/2013 12:18 AM, Lin wrote:
I am trying to figure out how to spell someone's name. She is a great aunt on my dad's side,
who was lost in the Holocaust. Her real name was Amalia HUMBERG HERZ. Her nickname, and
the only name I knew until I got into genealogy, was pronounced Mah luh. Hard to write it
without a schwa symbol, but the first syllable is like says Ma as in Ma and Pa.
The second syllable has a short /u/ sound.

My mom thinks it was spelled Male in German . But if I write "Male" on my tree everyone
will pronounce it the wrong way. I'm not sure whether to spell it Mahle, or Malle. This looks
sort of like faux German to me. Malla or Malla would definitely be more of an American spelling.

Relatives would be the main ones seeing the tree, and most do not speak German. Is there
a way to spell it correctly and also in a way that people will be able to pronounce it?
For those of you who speak and read German, can you help? Thanks so much.


German SIG #Germany Re: German question #germany

Roger Lustig
 

Dear Lin:

"Male" was definitely a common short form of Amalie and similar names.
I've also seen it spelled "Mahle."

If your relatives don't speak German they may have trouble with quite a
few names. You may want to add a pronunciation guide.

Changing things without explanation is never a good idea in my
experience. If one of your relatives wishes to do research some day,
they'll run up against your phonetic spelling and may be misled by
it--and that's hardly why you're doing this for them! So if you can add
footnotes or a box containing pronunciation info to your tree chart,
that's probably the best thing. Not as elegant, but sometimes necessary.

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ research coordinator, GerSIG

On 10/6/2013 12:18 AM, Lin wrote:
I am trying to figure out how to spell someone's name. She is a great aunt on my dad's side,
who was lost in the Holocaust. Her real name was Amalia HUMBERG HERZ. Her nickname, and
the only name I knew until I got into genealogy, was pronounced Mah luh. Hard to write it
without a schwa symbol, but the first syllable is like says Ma as in Ma and Pa.
The second syllable has a short /u/ sound.

My mom thinks it was spelled Male in German . But if I write "Male" on my tree everyone
will pronounce it the wrong way. I'm not sure whether to spell it Mahle, or Malle. This looks
sort of like faux German to me. Malla or Malla would definitely be more of an American spelling.

Relatives would be the main ones seeing the tree, and most do not speak German. Is there
a way to spell it correctly and also in a way that people will be able to pronounce it?
For those of you who speak and read German, can you help? Thanks so much.


Re: Hamburg records researcher ? #germany

Tobias A. Kemper <kemper@...>
 

Hello- Lin asked:
Has anyone used a professional genealogist in Germany to search Hamburg
records, that they would recommend to me?
Please address to the Hamburg Society of Jewish Genealogy:
http://www.jghh.org/de/judentum/genealogie

Mail: hgjg2011@googlemail.com

Regards, Tobias Kemper, Alfter, Germany tobias.kemper@web.de


German SIG #Germany Re: Hamburg records researcher ? #germany

Tobias A. Kemper <kemper@...>
 

Hello- Lin asked:
Has anyone used a professional genealogist in Germany to search Hamburg
records, that they would recommend to me?
Please address to the Hamburg Society of Jewish Genealogy:
http://www.jghh.org/de/judentum/genealogie

Mail: hgjg2011@googlemail.com

Regards, Tobias Kemper, Alfter, Germany tobias.kemper@web.de


Which of the SAFIRSTEIN sisters became my maternal grandmother? #poland

RuthNW <ruthnw@...>
 

I'm trying to determine which of two sisters became my maternal
grandmother. According to my research both were born in Milosna,
Poland to Leizer and Shayna (nee Grinberg) SAPIRSTEIN (or SAFIRSTEIN).

One was named Rojza and was born in June, 1871; the other, named Surah
(birth date unknown).

Rojza's "middle" name might have been Ryfka.

Rojza and Surah had several siblings - including a brother named Michel,
born in March, 1869; a (presumably the youngest) sister named Chana,
born in 1881. Because several of the births, including Surah's,
were registered in 1875 it's possible that Surah may have been born
a few years earlier. (See comments about death and burial records below.)

At some point, the family moved to Karczew, a town southeast of Warsaw.

One of the two sisters in question - Surah or Rojza - married the man
who became my maternal grandfather: Izrael DROZDIASZ. The couple moved
to England circa 1900. After living in London (and elsewhere) the couple
finally settled in the north of England.

At some point the DROZDIASZ family anglicized its name, first to
DROSDASH, then to RAUS, then (finally) to ROSE.

My mother once told me that her mother's name was Sarah Rachel.
Grandmother died of TB in 1920 - in a London nursing home; the name
Rachel is shown on her burial record and as Sarah Rachel on her
gravestone in the Edmonton Jewish cemetery in North London. Her
burial record gives her age at death as 51, which suggests that
she was born sometime in 1868 (the year before her brother Michel).

The latest (Polish-Jewish) vital records I have for the SAFIRSTEIN
(or SAFIRSTAYN - there are variant spellings) families are for the year
1881.

I don't have any marriage (or any other) records subsequent to 1881.
Question: Do any exist (or, at least, have survived) subsequent to
1881? So far I haven't found any. Obviously, if I could find the
marriage records of either sister - Sarah or Rojza - the mystery as
to which one became my maternal grandmother would be solved!

As part of my research, I've searched the Warsaw ghetto records and
checked with Yad Vashem to see if anyone had posted a Page of Testimony.
Nothing!

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Naidia Woolf
ruthnw@comcast.net
San Francisco, California, USA
Formerly of Birmingham, England

Researching (partial list)

DROZDIASZ, Milosna, Karczew, Otwock, Poland
SAFIRSTEIN/SAPIRSTEIN: Milosna, Karczew, Otwock, Poland
GRINBERG, Milosna, Poland
KUJAWSKI: Kalisz, Lodz, Poland


JRI Poland #Poland Which of the SAFIRSTEIN sisters became my maternal grandmother? #poland

RuthNW <ruthnw@...>
 

I'm trying to determine which of two sisters became my maternal
grandmother. According to my research both were born in Milosna,
Poland to Leizer and Shayna (nee Grinberg) SAPIRSTEIN (or SAFIRSTEIN).

One was named Rojza and was born in June, 1871; the other, named Surah
(birth date unknown).

Rojza's "middle" name might have been Ryfka.

Rojza and Surah had several siblings - including a brother named Michel,
born in March, 1869; a (presumably the youngest) sister named Chana,
born in 1881. Because several of the births, including Surah's,
were registered in 1875 it's possible that Surah may have been born
a few years earlier. (See comments about death and burial records below.)

At some point, the family moved to Karczew, a town southeast of Warsaw.

One of the two sisters in question - Surah or Rojza - married the man
who became my maternal grandfather: Izrael DROZDIASZ. The couple moved
to England circa 1900. After living in London (and elsewhere) the couple
finally settled in the north of England.

At some point the DROZDIASZ family anglicized its name, first to
DROSDASH, then to RAUS, then (finally) to ROSE.

My mother once told me that her mother's name was Sarah Rachel.
Grandmother died of TB in 1920 - in a London nursing home; the name
Rachel is shown on her burial record and as Sarah Rachel on her
gravestone in the Edmonton Jewish cemetery in North London. Her
burial record gives her age at death as 51, which suggests that
she was born sometime in 1868 (the year before her brother Michel).

The latest (Polish-Jewish) vital records I have for the SAFIRSTEIN
(or SAFIRSTAYN - there are variant spellings) families are for the year
1881.

I don't have any marriage (or any other) records subsequent to 1881.
Question: Do any exist (or, at least, have survived) subsequent to
1881? So far I haven't found any. Obviously, if I could find the
marriage records of either sister - Sarah or Rojza - the mystery as
to which one became my maternal grandmother would be solved!

As part of my research, I've searched the Warsaw ghetto records and
checked with Yad Vashem to see if anyone had posted a Page of Testimony.
Nothing!

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Naidia Woolf
ruthnw@comcast.net
San Francisco, California, USA
Formerly of Birmingham, England

Researching (partial list)

DROZDIASZ, Milosna, Karczew, Otwock, Poland
SAFIRSTEIN/SAPIRSTEIN: Milosna, Karczew, Otwock, Poland
GRINBERG, Milosna, Poland
KUJAWSKI: Kalisz, Lodz, Poland


Viewmate # 29392 - German Translation, occupation #poland

Brian Lehman <blrrcn@...>
 

Hello,
I posted as birth record, written in German, >from 1889 Mielnica to Viewmate.
I am asking for a translation of a word in the father's column #6.
I believe its an occupation, all I can read is "schuld...".
Please follow the link below,

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM29392


Thank you for any assistance offered.
Brian Lehman
New York

Researching:
Mielnica,Galicia - SCHUSTER, LEHMAN, MENDLOWITZ, WEISSMANN, STELMACH,
STERNBERG, SCHNEIDER, GERTLER, GRISCHMANN.
Czortkow,Galicia - FISCHTHAL, KLEINMAN, RINTEL, SCHNEIDER, KAHNER,
GRUNBERG, SULZBERG.
Chrzanow,Galicia - SCHNEIDER, BORENSTEIN, JOSEPH.
Wiznitz,Bukovina - PISTINER, PASTERNACK, FELDMANN, KALER.
Muenzenheim,Germany - DIEDELSCHEIMER, DURLACHER, ELSASSER, HABISH,
TURKHEIMER.
Warsaw - SILVERSTEIN,GROER.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately or on the ViewMate form.


JRI Poland #Poland Viewmate # 29392 - German Translation, occupation #poland

Brian Lehman <blrrcn@...>
 

Hello,
I posted as birth record, written in German, >from 1889 Mielnica to Viewmate.
I am asking for a translation of a word in the father's column #6.
I believe its an occupation, all I can read is "schuld...".
Please follow the link below,

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM29392


Thank you for any assistance offered.
Brian Lehman
New York

Researching:
Mielnica,Galicia - SCHUSTER, LEHMAN, MENDLOWITZ, WEISSMANN, STELMACH,
STERNBERG, SCHNEIDER, GERTLER, GRISCHMANN.
Czortkow,Galicia - FISCHTHAL, KLEINMAN, RINTEL, SCHNEIDER, KAHNER,
GRUNBERG, SULZBERG.
Chrzanow,Galicia - SCHNEIDER, BORENSTEIN, JOSEPH.
Wiznitz,Bukovina - PISTINER, PASTERNACK, FELDMANN, KALER.
Muenzenheim,Germany - DIEDELSCHEIMER, DURLACHER, ELSASSER, HABISH,
TURKHEIMER.
Warsaw - SILVERSTEIN,GROER.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately or on the ViewMate form.


Ordering records from AGAD #poland

Israel P
 

Most, but not all, the images of the AGAD records on JRI-Poland can
be downloaded free >from the JRI-Poland search results. Others cannot,
generally the newer ones.

Such records appear on JRI-Poland, but there are others which appear on
the All-Galicia Database - and perhaps other sources.

I plan on placing an order for AGAD records in three weeks. In order to join
that order, you need the name of the person on the record, the town,
sygnature number, year, and page number or akt number. And of course
these records must be in the AGAD archive.

If you have identified such records are interested in ordering, you may
contact me.

Israel Pickholtz
Jerusalem


JRI Poland #Poland Ordering records from AGAD #poland

Israel P
 

Most, but not all, the images of the AGAD records on JRI-Poland can
be downloaded free >from the JRI-Poland search results. Others cannot,
generally the newer ones.

Such records appear on JRI-Poland, but there are others which appear on
the All-Galicia Database - and perhaps other sources.

I plan on placing an order for AGAD records in three weeks. In order to join
that order, you need the name of the person on the record, the town,
sygnature number, year, and page number or akt number. And of course
these records must be in the AGAD archive.

If you have identified such records are interested in ordering, you may
contact me.

Israel Pickholtz
Jerusalem


Viewmate Translation Request - Polish #poland

awestreich@...
 

I would like a full translation of a marriage record (WESTREICH - JAKOB)
from Brzesko, Poland (Galicia). It is written in Polish and spans 2 pages.
I've posted it on ViewMate at the following addresses ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM29375
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM29376

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.

Thank you,
Allan Westreich
awestreich@comcast.net


JRI Poland #Poland Viewmate Translation Request - Polish #poland

awestreich@...
 

I would like a full translation of a marriage record (WESTREICH - JAKOB)
from Brzesko, Poland (Galicia). It is written in Polish and spans 2 pages.
I've posted it on ViewMate at the following addresses ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM29375
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM29376

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.

Thank you,
Allan Westreich
awestreich@comcast.net


Question on ages #lithuania

David W. Perle
 

Hi! I'm "new in town." (I just joined this group earlier today and this
is my first post.)

Given how consistently inconsistent I've found records to be of ancestors'
years of birth (i.e. one U.S. census record for an individual not
agreeing with another record or two for that person, then them not
matching the ages given on their passenger-list entries when immigrating,
and so on), I'm taking it for granted that you all have experienced the
same.
However, researching a pair of great-grandparents who immigrated to the
U.S. >from Kovno, the inconsistencies seem to be larger.

I thought I would post here to see if there's any Kovno/Lithuania-specific
reason why their ages may have been recorded as being older there than they
were considered to be after coming to the U.S. For example, would there be
any reason why they would lie about the ages, tacking on a few extra years
in Lithuania?

To show what I mean, take my great-grandfather Nathan ARONOWSKY (known as
Zusman Nakhman, or varied spellings, in Lithuania). The exact date of
birth on his 1932 death certificate was recorded as April 15, 1880, and his
headstone is chiseled with "1880" as his year of birth. However, the birth
certificates of his two children born in the United States each indicate
birth around 1878, as does the family's naturalization certificate.
But then I have Lithuanian records (I havent seen the originals; I'm
going by whats been typed into the database) >from 1898, 1900, and
1904 each showing his year of birth as around 1876. (I realize
that's not that far off >from the three U.S. records that I have indicating
1878.It's just so odd that they differ so much >from the year on his death
certificate and headstone, though! Could the family have not known his
actual age all those years? Each birthday, they celebrated the wrong new
age? Or might he have not ever cared to acknowledge his birthday)

Next, consider my great-grandmother Ida/Chaya Aronowsky. Her
death certificate and headstone each say that she was born in 1879. The
1940 census indicates either 1878 or 1879, but the 1920 census (more neatly
applying stats as of January 1 that year) indicates 1878. Those
records barely disagree with each other and so aren't too interesting,
BUT: her and Nathan's Lithuanian marriage record plus her passenger-list
entry when coming to the U.S. each indicate that she was born in 1874! The
family's naturalization certificate indicates birth in 1876. (The marriage
record shows that he was 24 and she was 26, so it's hard to imagine that
they'd have to lie about being older than they were, as if 20-year-olds
would be permitted to marry in 1900)

Thoughts?

David Perle
Washington, DC


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Question on ages #lithuania

David W. Perle
 

Hi! I'm "new in town." (I just joined this group earlier today and this
is my first post.)

Given how consistently inconsistent I've found records to be of ancestors'
years of birth (i.e. one U.S. census record for an individual not
agreeing with another record or two for that person, then them not
matching the ages given on their passenger-list entries when immigrating,
and so on), I'm taking it for granted that you all have experienced the
same.
However, researching a pair of great-grandparents who immigrated to the
U.S. >from Kovno, the inconsistencies seem to be larger.

I thought I would post here to see if there's any Kovno/Lithuania-specific
reason why their ages may have been recorded as being older there than they
were considered to be after coming to the U.S. For example, would there be
any reason why they would lie about the ages, tacking on a few extra years
in Lithuania?

To show what I mean, take my great-grandfather Nathan ARONOWSKY (known as
Zusman Nakhman, or varied spellings, in Lithuania). The exact date of
birth on his 1932 death certificate was recorded as April 15, 1880, and his
headstone is chiseled with "1880" as his year of birth. However, the birth
certificates of his two children born in the United States each indicate
birth around 1878, as does the family's naturalization certificate.
But then I have Lithuanian records (I havent seen the originals; I'm
going by whats been typed into the database) >from 1898, 1900, and
1904 each showing his year of birth as around 1876. (I realize
that's not that far off >from the three U.S. records that I have indicating
1878.It's just so odd that they differ so much >from the year on his death
certificate and headstone, though! Could the family have not known his
actual age all those years? Each birthday, they celebrated the wrong new
age? Or might he have not ever cared to acknowledge his birthday)

Next, consider my great-grandmother Ida/Chaya Aronowsky. Her
death certificate and headstone each say that she was born in 1879. The
1940 census indicates either 1878 or 1879, but the 1920 census (more neatly
applying stats as of January 1 that year) indicates 1878. Those
records barely disagree with each other and so aren't too interesting,
BUT: her and Nathan's Lithuanian marriage record plus her passenger-list
entry when coming to the U.S. each indicate that she was born in 1874! The
family's naturalization certificate indicates birth in 1876. (The marriage
record shows that he was 24 and she was 26, so it's hard to imagine that
they'd have to lie about being older than they were, as if 20-year-olds
would be permitted to marry in 1900)

Thoughts?

David Perle
Washington, DC

132161 - 132180 of 663859