Date   

Looking for GOLDBERG - SIMON: Anyone have an Ancestry DNA match to Kevin DONOHUE? #general

Sal & Ellen Barbieri <elsal@...>
 

My brother's results are: 47% Jewish, 43% Irish. I do not know where my
GOLDBERG paternal great-grandfather was born after years of research. Hope I
can find it with your help.

Louis Tobias GOLDBERG b. about 1849 place unknown d. 1893 NYC -- son of Chaim
Josef & Rachel on d. cert.
wife:
Leia Dwera KANOWICZ/COHN b. Dec. 1854 Suwalki d. 1927 NYC
children: all b. NYC between 1872-1889
Barnett Brock GOLDBERG m. Julia SCHWARTZ
Murray GOLDBERG m. Selma MOSES
Harris GOLDBERG m. Esther SIMON (my grandparents)
Julia GOLDBERG m. Emanuel SOLOMON
Sadye GOLDBERG d. fire Thomasville GA
Ethel GOLDBERG m. Jesse FRIEDLANDER
Beatrice GOLDBERG m. Joseph CERF

My maternal great grandfather:
Berko ZYMAN/Barnet SIMON b. 1840 Lubowo d. 1925 NYC – son of Arye Leib z
Judel z Hirsz ZYMAN & Dobki MARCUS
wife:
Dwera Ryfka KAPLAN b. 1845 Suwalki d. 1894 NYC
Children:
Dora SIMON/Doba ZYMAN b. 1865 Suwalki m. Philip STEINMANN
Rachel SIMON b. 1867 Birmingham Eng. m. Jacob Joseph SIMON (Indian War
Veteran)
Lilly SIMON m. Harry KAPLAN
Fannie SIMON m. Leon GRENNER
Sadye SIMON m. Harris ROSENBERG, Abraham EISENBERG
Esther SIMON m. Harris GOLDBERG (my grandparents)
Bertha SIMON m. Isaac HUTKOFF
Murray SIMON
Diana SIMON m. Joseph LURIA

I have lots of info on descendants. I have photo of Louis & Leah GOLDBERG
taken 1871 in London en route to NYC Aug 1871. Assume they married in
Suwalki shortly before departure as she was 16.
I have all Suwalki films & others on permanent loan at San Diego Mormon
library but can't read Cyrillic records.

Thanks for any help.

Ellen Barbieri- Researcher # 8682
San Diego CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for GOLDBERG - SIMON: Anyone have an Ancestry DNA match to Kevin DONOHUE? #general

Sal & Ellen Barbieri <elsal@...>
 

My brother's results are: 47% Jewish, 43% Irish. I do not know where my
GOLDBERG paternal great-grandfather was born after years of research. Hope I
can find it with your help.

Louis Tobias GOLDBERG b. about 1849 place unknown d. 1893 NYC -- son of Chaim
Josef & Rachel on d. cert.
wife:
Leia Dwera KANOWICZ/COHN b. Dec. 1854 Suwalki d. 1927 NYC
children: all b. NYC between 1872-1889
Barnett Brock GOLDBERG m. Julia SCHWARTZ
Murray GOLDBERG m. Selma MOSES
Harris GOLDBERG m. Esther SIMON (my grandparents)
Julia GOLDBERG m. Emanuel SOLOMON
Sadye GOLDBERG d. fire Thomasville GA
Ethel GOLDBERG m. Jesse FRIEDLANDER
Beatrice GOLDBERG m. Joseph CERF

My maternal great grandfather:
Berko ZYMAN/Barnet SIMON b. 1840 Lubowo d. 1925 NYC – son of Arye Leib z
Judel z Hirsz ZYMAN & Dobki MARCUS
wife:
Dwera Ryfka KAPLAN b. 1845 Suwalki d. 1894 NYC
Children:
Dora SIMON/Doba ZYMAN b. 1865 Suwalki m. Philip STEINMANN
Rachel SIMON b. 1867 Birmingham Eng. m. Jacob Joseph SIMON (Indian War
Veteran)
Lilly SIMON m. Harry KAPLAN
Fannie SIMON m. Leon GRENNER
Sadye SIMON m. Harris ROSENBERG, Abraham EISENBERG
Esther SIMON m. Harris GOLDBERG (my grandparents)
Bertha SIMON m. Isaac HUTKOFF
Murray SIMON
Diana SIMON m. Joseph LURIA

I have lots of info on descendants. I have photo of Louis & Leah GOLDBERG
taken 1871 in London en route to NYC Aug 1871. Assume they married in
Suwalki shortly before departure as she was 16.
I have all Suwalki films & others on permanent loan at San Diego Mormon
library but can't read Cyrillic records.

Thanks for any help.

Ellen Barbieri- Researcher # 8682
San Diego CA


Re: Same or different Pickholtz #general

Arlene <arlene@...>
 

I am not writing as an expert on the subject, but I believe that various
Societies had/have sections in the NY cemeteries. So maybe you have to
establish which societies has sections in the Bayside Cemetery & then
approach each of them.

Also watch out for different possible name spellings.

Louis Zetler
ISRAEL

Steve PICKHOLTZ <nj55turtle@comcast.net> wrote:

I'm trying to figure out if the below info is about the same person
or two different people. You will have to look at the info very
carefully, especially name and name spellings.

Israel PICKHOLTZ, born May 23, 1893, Birth Cert #18810 issued in NYC.
He was born at the Sloane Maternity Hospital, NYC. Father was (????
no name given) Pickholtz, mother was Lena Pickholtz. All this info
came off the birth cert that is readable.

Israel Pickholz, death cert # 20801 issued by the State of NY. The
death took place on June 4, 1893 at the Hebrew Sheltering Arms,
located at 210 Madison Ave (hard to read). Parents were Jokiel and
Maria Pickholz (hard to read names). It looks like he was buried at
the Bayside Cemetery (very hard to read). The Bayside cemetery has
told me they have no records of him.

Questions----------- If the same person, what are the parents names?
Where is Israel buried?
Does anyone out there have any info on this person
parent in either and/or the example?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Same or different Pickholtz #general

Arlene <arlene@...>
 

I am not writing as an expert on the subject, but I believe that various
Societies had/have sections in the NY cemeteries. So maybe you have to
establish which societies has sections in the Bayside Cemetery & then
approach each of them.

Also watch out for different possible name spellings.

Louis Zetler
ISRAEL

Steve PICKHOLTZ <nj55turtle@comcast.net> wrote:

I'm trying to figure out if the below info is about the same person
or two different people. You will have to look at the info very
carefully, especially name and name spellings.

Israel PICKHOLTZ, born May 23, 1893, Birth Cert #18810 issued in NYC.
He was born at the Sloane Maternity Hospital, NYC. Father was (????
no name given) Pickholtz, mother was Lena Pickholtz. All this info
came off the birth cert that is readable.

Israel Pickholz, death cert # 20801 issued by the State of NY. The
death took place on June 4, 1893 at the Hebrew Sheltering Arms,
located at 210 Madison Ave (hard to read). Parents were Jokiel and
Maria Pickholz (hard to read names). It looks like he was buried at
the Bayside Cemetery (very hard to read). The Bayside cemetery has
told me they have no records of him.

Questions----------- If the same person, what are the parents names?
Where is Israel buried?
Does anyone out there have any info on this person
parent in either and/or the example?


Searching for descendants of Eliezer ben Kalman KASZUB (Israel? France - CASSUBE? Other) #general

Joyaa Antares
 

Dear Genners,

I would like to reach any descendants of Eliezer KASZUB, possibly born 1898;
son of Kalman and Nauma (nee KEMPNER) KASZUB.

Eliezer submitted 43 pages of testimony [POTs] to Yad Vashem for friends and
family many years ago, mainly for the KASZUB family of Lodz, Poland; and
possibly some >from Krosniewice, Poland. The submitted pages are in Hebrew,
and I presume Eliezer lived in Israel.

Nauma is a recently "discovered" cousin of my KEMPNER family. Some of the
POTs relate to KEMPNERs, and many to KASZUBs. I don't know exactly how the
French KASZUB branch is related, but I understand that they spell the
surname CASSUBE.

Thank you!

Joyaa ANTARES
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

Researching ....
KEMPNER in Berlin, Lodz, Warszawa and London


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching for descendants of Eliezer ben Kalman KASZUB (Israel? France - CASSUBE? Other) #general

Joyaa Antares
 

Dear Genners,

I would like to reach any descendants of Eliezer KASZUB, possibly born 1898;
son of Kalman and Nauma (nee KEMPNER) KASZUB.

Eliezer submitted 43 pages of testimony [POTs] to Yad Vashem for friends and
family many years ago, mainly for the KASZUB family of Lodz, Poland; and
possibly some >from Krosniewice, Poland. The submitted pages are in Hebrew,
and I presume Eliezer lived in Israel.

Nauma is a recently "discovered" cousin of my KEMPNER family. Some of the
POTs relate to KEMPNERs, and many to KASZUBs. I don't know exactly how the
French KASZUB branch is related, but I understand that they spell the
surname CASSUBE.

Thank you!

Joyaa ANTARES
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

Researching ....
KEMPNER in Berlin, Lodz, Warszawa and London


Chag Pessach Sameach #poland

חנה ועמנואל פורמן <ehfurman@...>
 

Dear all,

May the coming Pesach - Passover will be a door for a
Better world of freedom, wisdom and tolerance.

Have an Happy and Kosher Pessach.

Shalom >from Kiryat Gat, Israel
Chana Furman.


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland Chag Pessach Sameach #poland

חנה ועמנואל פורמן <ehfurman@...>
 

Dear all,

May the coming Pesach - Passover will be a door for a
Better world of freedom, wisdom and tolerance.

Have an Happy and Kosher Pessach.

Shalom >from Kiryat Gat, Israel
Chana Furman.


Ezra Kotzin #lithuania

Ted Kotzin <tkotzin4713@...>
 

Looking for Ezra KOTZIN, a possible relative. I have received a list of
members of the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra, with him included as an
oboe player, along with a group picture of the orchestra listed as
"The Steinberg 1945-1952. Does anyone know anything about him?


Ted Kotzin
Torrance CA

tkotzin4713@verizon.net

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Ezra Kotzin #lithuania

Ted Kotzin <tkotzin4713@...>
 

Looking for Ezra KOTZIN, a possible relative. I have received a list of
members of the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra, with him included as an
oboe player, along with a group picture of the orchestra listed as
"The Steinberg 1945-1952. Does anyone know anything about him?


Ted Kotzin
Torrance CA

tkotzin4713@verizon.net

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Re: litvaksig digest: March 26, 2018 - comment on "Is it Abelski? Is it Dewaltoff" #lithuania

Matthew Klionsky <klionsky@...>
 

Have you considered the possibility that the bride had been previously
married, and that the record is showing both her birth surname and her
prior married surname?

I've seen that sort of thing in my own research; on one occasion
the 'comment' field says the bride is a divorcee, and two surnames
are listed for her.

Matthew Klionsky
----------------------------------


Subject: May be a "breakthrough" but makes the search more confusing

From: Patricia Manning <patmanning@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 19:16:39 -0400

X-Message-Number: 2


For the infinite number of years I've been researching my family I've

often found confusion in the names. Is it Abelski? Is it Dewaltoff.

(I have found records using the Dewaltoff name where I would have

expected Abelski.)


Today I found the following record on the All Lithuania database. If

it was there before ... well, I suppose you could say 'when the

disciple the teacher will appear". I don't know - but here's the

record (In text format)


Place Groom/Bride Father Place Age

Date

Vilnius VOLK, Abram Abel Yankel Vilkomor 27

Vilnius ABELSKY DEVIALTOVSKY,

Sheina Rokhlia Bentzel Shatsky 9

6/7/1886


Place/Year Recorded/Record type/Record Number

Vilna 1886 Marriage 132


Microfolm number/Item number Image number Archive/Fond

2205038 / 1 36 LVIA/728/3/1102



The Bride I thought was named "Sonia Dewaltoff"; it seems she had two

names. The groom's name is as expected; the father is as expected

although he was only known to me by the surname Dewaltoff..


I don't know where "Shatsky" is (found Sakiai, which is near Kaunas

but not near anything else I research (Panevezys, Vilnius).


Does anybody know a reason for the two names? Is this common? I

don't know how to start to solve this. (And I sometimes consider

myself not a beginner at this.)


I am thrilled and flummoxed and wish I had asked more questions when

I was 5 years old.


Thank you in advance


Patricia Manning


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: litvaksig digest: March 26, 2018 - comment on "Is it Abelski? Is it Dewaltoff" #lithuania

Matthew Klionsky <klionsky@...>
 

Have you considered the possibility that the bride had been previously
married, and that the record is showing both her birth surname and her
prior married surname?

I've seen that sort of thing in my own research; on one occasion
the 'comment' field says the bride is a divorcee, and two surnames
are listed for her.

Matthew Klionsky
----------------------------------


Subject: May be a "breakthrough" but makes the search more confusing

From: Patricia Manning <patmanning@gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 19:16:39 -0400

X-Message-Number: 2


For the infinite number of years I've been researching my family I've

often found confusion in the names. Is it Abelski? Is it Dewaltoff.

(I have found records using the Dewaltoff name where I would have

expected Abelski.)


Today I found the following record on the All Lithuania database. If

it was there before ... well, I suppose you could say 'when the

disciple the teacher will appear". I don't know - but here's the

record (In text format)


Place Groom/Bride Father Place Age

Date

Vilnius VOLK, Abram Abel Yankel Vilkomor 27

Vilnius ABELSKY DEVIALTOVSKY,

Sheina Rokhlia Bentzel Shatsky 9

6/7/1886


Place/Year Recorded/Record type/Record Number

Vilna 1886 Marriage 132


Microfolm number/Item number Image number Archive/Fond

2205038 / 1 36 LVIA/728/3/1102



The Bride I thought was named "Sonia Dewaltoff"; it seems she had two

names. The groom's name is as expected; the father is as expected

although he was only known to me by the surname Dewaltoff..


I don't know where "Shatsky" is (found Sakiai, which is near Kaunas

but not near anything else I research (Panevezys, Vilnius).


Does anybody know a reason for the two names? Is this common? I

don't know how to start to solve this. (And I sometimes consider

myself not a beginner at this.)


I am thrilled and flummoxed and wish I had asked more questions when

I was 5 years old.


Thank you in advance


Patricia Manning


The Bloch Sefer Torah #lithuania

Eli Rabinowitz
 

The recently completed roots trip to Cape Town >from Israel by Beverly
Saevitzon Jacobson and her children precipitated a search for the Sefer
Torah her great grandfather, Aphraim Bloch, donated to Highlands House
retirement home back in 1948.

The last time it was seen by a family member was by Beverly's
brother, Richard Shavei Tzion in 1998.

Read more about this success story, the research tools used and
documents found that helped locate the Sefer Torah, and bring the family
together to honour the memory of their ancestors.

This post includes current photos of the shul at Highlands House.

http://elirab.me/bloch-torah/

Chag Pesach Sameach

Regards
Eli Rabinowitz
Perth, AustraliaAustralian
elirab.me


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania The Bloch Sefer Torah #lithuania

Eli Rabinowitz
 

The recently completed roots trip to Cape Town >from Israel by Beverly
Saevitzon Jacobson and her children precipitated a search for the Sefer
Torah her great grandfather, Aphraim Bloch, donated to Highlands House
retirement home back in 1948.

The last time it was seen by a family member was by Beverly's
brother, Richard Shavei Tzion in 1998.

Read more about this success story, the research tools used and
documents found that helped locate the Sefer Torah, and bring the family
together to honour the memory of their ancestors.

This post includes current photos of the shul at Highlands House.

http://elirab.me/bloch-torah/

Chag Pesach Sameach

Regards
Eli Rabinowitz
Perth, AustraliaAustralian
elirab.me


Thank you for all the notes #lithuania

Patricia Manning <patmanning@...>
 

I wanted to write this to everyone because now I am a true believer in
asking the right question. I've used the site for many years and once
inquired about the name (DeWaltoff) as my "brick wall" I got no
response. With with the proper question (yesterday) I got many
replies. Thank you, thank you.

I know Litvaksig members are full of really good and useful info and I
was grateful that I was able to take advantage of your help.

Shatsky is Seta!! and Seta I know because (and this was confirmed on
Ada Green's Seta site on Kehalalinks) every single ancestor on my
maternal side is >from Seta. (I wonder about the intermarriage other
than my grandparents who are cousins.......)

I'm so enjoying this discovery.

Again Thanks.

Patricia Manning
Researching Abelski, DeWaltoff, Rez (Seta, Panevezys, Krakes, Kaunas) et al.!!


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Thank you for all the notes #lithuania

Patricia Manning <patmanning@...>
 

I wanted to write this to everyone because now I am a true believer in
asking the right question. I've used the site for many years and once
inquired about the name (DeWaltoff) as my "brick wall" I got no
response. With with the proper question (yesterday) I got many
replies. Thank you, thank you.

I know Litvaksig members are full of really good and useful info and I
was grateful that I was able to take advantage of your help.

Shatsky is Seta!! and Seta I know because (and this was confirmed on
Ada Green's Seta site on Kehalalinks) every single ancestor on my
maternal side is >from Seta. (I wonder about the intermarriage other
than my grandparents who are cousins.......)

I'm so enjoying this discovery.

Again Thanks.

Patricia Manning
Researching Abelski, DeWaltoff, Rez (Seta, Panevezys, Krakes, Kaunas) et al.!!


Pochayev and Shumsk (Ukraine) records, Vishnevets (Ukraine) YB translated #poland

Ellen Garshick
 

The Kremenets Shtetl CO-OP/Kremenets District Research Group is pleased
to announce that the following records have been translated and added to
the searchable Kremenets Concordance Database Index
(https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/Kremenets/web-pages/database/krem_search_frm.html):

--Shumsk Births, 1897, 1902, 1905, 1908-1913, 1916-1917, 1920-1936
--Pochayev Births, 1891-1936
--Shumsk Marriages, 1883-1891, 1923-1926, 1935
--Sefer Vishnivits (yizkor book of Vishnevets, Ukraine; translation now
complete)

Translations of the birth and marriage records are available in master
spreadsheets on our Contributors Site (available to those who have
donated money [in any amount], documents, or services during the
previous two years). The yizkor book translation is available at
JewishGen's Yizkor Book Project
(https://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Vishnevets/Vishnevets.html), and
Microsoft Word and PDF versions will follow soon on the Contributors Site.

Many thanks to those of you who have donated over the years to fund
these translations.

The Concordance continues to grow in value as the starting point for
researching your Kremenets-district ancestors. It now contains more than
300,000 entries (161,822 >from vital records, 76,538 >from Revision Lists,
23,340 >from documents (other than vital records and revision lists)
obtained >from the Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People,
11,447 >from Yizkor Books and Booklets, 9,554 >from the Ellis Island
Database, and 5,647 >from other sources. It includes references to
1,216 town names; the 15 most frequently cited are Kremenets, Vishnevets,
Radzivilov, Shumsk, Katerburg, Yampol, Belozirka, Vyshgorodok, Lanovtsy,
Berezhtsy, Oleksinets, Pochayev, Rokhmanov, Ostrog, and Dubno.

To help us continue obtaining and translating Kremenets-district
records, please consider donating to our work. >from
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=22,
scroll down to "Kremenets District Towns, Ukraine - Record Acquisition
and Translation." For a description of the project, please see
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/projectdesc/DB_KremenetsDistrictTowns.html.


Regards,
Ellen Garshick
Silver Spring, Maryland USA

Board Member and Yizkor Book Translation Coordinator, Kremenets Shtetl
CO-OP, an activity of the Kremenets District Research Group:
http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/Kremenets
Researching BAT, AVERBAKH >from Kremenets, Shumsk, Katerburg, and
Folvarki, Ukraine; GERSHIK, HURWITCH >from Staryye Dorogi and Bobruisk,
Belarus; ROTHKOPF (ROTKOP), GOLDBERG >from Bialystok, Poland, and
Baranivichi and Slonim, Belarus


JRI Poland #Poland Pochayev and Shumsk (Ukraine) records, Vishnevets (Ukraine) YB translated #poland

Ellen Garshick
 

The Kremenets Shtetl CO-OP/Kremenets District Research Group is pleased
to announce that the following records have been translated and added to
the searchable Kremenets Concordance Database Index
(https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/Kremenets/web-pages/database/krem_search_frm.html):

--Shumsk Births, 1897, 1902, 1905, 1908-1913, 1916-1917, 1920-1936
--Pochayev Births, 1891-1936
--Shumsk Marriages, 1883-1891, 1923-1926, 1935
--Sefer Vishnivits (yizkor book of Vishnevets, Ukraine; translation now
complete)

Translations of the birth and marriage records are available in master
spreadsheets on our Contributors Site (available to those who have
donated money [in any amount], documents, or services during the
previous two years). The yizkor book translation is available at
JewishGen's Yizkor Book Project
(https://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Vishnevets/Vishnevets.html), and
Microsoft Word and PDF versions will follow soon on the Contributors Site.

Many thanks to those of you who have donated over the years to fund
these translations.

The Concordance continues to grow in value as the starting point for
researching your Kremenets-district ancestors. It now contains more than
300,000 entries (161,822 >from vital records, 76,538 >from Revision Lists,
23,340 >from documents (other than vital records and revision lists)
obtained >from the Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People,
11,447 >from Yizkor Books and Booklets, 9,554 >from the Ellis Island
Database, and 5,647 >from other sources. It includes references to
1,216 town names; the 15 most frequently cited are Kremenets, Vishnevets,
Radzivilov, Shumsk, Katerburg, Yampol, Belozirka, Vyshgorodok, Lanovtsy,
Berezhtsy, Oleksinets, Pochayev, Rokhmanov, Ostrog, and Dubno.

To help us continue obtaining and translating Kremenets-district
records, please consider donating to our work. >from
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=22,
scroll down to "Kremenets District Towns, Ukraine - Record Acquisition
and Translation." For a description of the project, please see
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/projectdesc/DB_KremenetsDistrictTowns.html.


Regards,
Ellen Garshick
Silver Spring, Maryland USA

Board Member and Yizkor Book Translation Coordinator, Kremenets Shtetl
CO-OP, an activity of the Kremenets District Research Group:
http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/Kremenets
Researching BAT, AVERBAKH >from Kremenets, Shumsk, Katerburg, and
Folvarki, Ukraine; GERSHIK, HURWITCH >from Staryye Dorogi and Bobruisk,
Belarus; ROTHKOPF (ROTKOP), GOLDBERG >from Bialystok, Poland, and
Baranivichi and Slonim, Belarus


Re: Ancestry DNA #dna

rayvenna@...
 

Adam,

You're correct, but as with everything else in science, accuracy will
increase with the number of data points. If your triangulation consists
of a number of known points, then you can give the results more weight.

For example, if I want to see if someone is related to me on my paternal
side or my maternal side, I'll compare them against at least 10 people
who share my paternal DNA but not my maternal side, then do the same for
my maternal size. If that person matches at least half of the people on
the paternal size and none on the maternal side, I'll feel confident
that the match is through my paternal side. I'll then repeat the
process against various paternal branches in an attempt to narrow things
down to a specific part of the paternal tree. It doesn't always work,
but I've had enough successes to continue using this method.

If a kit matches the several people on both the paternal and maternal
sides, then I know without a doubt that endogamy is at play. They're
related through both sides, probably considerably farther back than the
estimates predict.

This process can become insanely expensive, but I believe it works
fairly well (as does Lara Diamond and Israel Pickholtz). I've used it
with success to identify 3rd cousins, two of which have more
traditional genealogical evidence to corroborate the relationship. I'm
still looking for traditional sources to verify the 3rd.

Thanks,
Mindie Kaplan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Cherson adam.cherson@gmail.com" <dna@lyris.jewishgen.org>
To: "DNA Testing" <dna@lyris.jewishgen.org>

In regards to Arlene's triangulation post, I would like to add that
triangulation is not always as clear as one would hope. I have a pair of
dna results that I often use as triangulation guideposts. One kit is my
aunt's and the other is her paternal first cousin. One would think that
anyone that matches my aunt but not her paternal first cousin would
clearly be related to my aunt on her on her maternal side. The problem
is that even a known maternal 2nd cousin of hers also matches her
paternal 1st cousin. When you add the fact that the amount of gene
sharing among cousins of equal genealogical distance can vary
considerably, one is left with often ambiguous results. The point is of
course that dna analysis triangulations involving potential relatives
who are greater than 4 steps away (i.e. further than 1st cousins), and
especially in highly endogamous populations, are difficult if not
impossible to interpret in the absence of additional and supporting
genealogical information. Beware of isolated triangulation!


DNA Research #DNA Re: Ancestry DNA #dna

rayvenna@...
 

Adam,

You're correct, but as with everything else in science, accuracy will
increase with the number of data points. If your triangulation consists
of a number of known points, then you can give the results more weight.

For example, if I want to see if someone is related to me on my paternal
side or my maternal side, I'll compare them against at least 10 people
who share my paternal DNA but not my maternal side, then do the same for
my maternal size. If that person matches at least half of the people on
the paternal size and none on the maternal side, I'll feel confident
that the match is through my paternal side. I'll then repeat the
process against various paternal branches in an attempt to narrow things
down to a specific part of the paternal tree. It doesn't always work,
but I've had enough successes to continue using this method.

If a kit matches the several people on both the paternal and maternal
sides, then I know without a doubt that endogamy is at play. They're
related through both sides, probably considerably farther back than the
estimates predict.

This process can become insanely expensive, but I believe it works
fairly well (as does Lara Diamond and Israel Pickholtz). I've used it
with success to identify 3rd cousins, two of which have more
traditional genealogical evidence to corroborate the relationship. I'm
still looking for traditional sources to verify the 3rd.

Thanks,
Mindie Kaplan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Cherson adam.cherson@gmail.com" <dna@lyris.jewishgen.org>
To: "DNA Testing" <dna@lyris.jewishgen.org>

In regards to Arlene's triangulation post, I would like to add that
triangulation is not always as clear as one would hope. I have a pair of
dna results that I often use as triangulation guideposts. One kit is my
aunt's and the other is her paternal first cousin. One would think that
anyone that matches my aunt but not her paternal first cousin would
clearly be related to my aunt on her on her maternal side. The problem
is that even a known maternal 2nd cousin of hers also matches her
paternal 1st cousin. When you add the fact that the amount of gene
sharing among cousins of equal genealogical distance can vary
considerably, one is left with often ambiguous results. The point is of
course that dna analysis triangulations involving potential relatives
who are greater than 4 steps away (i.e. further than 1st cousins), and
especially in highly endogamous populations, are difficult if not
impossible to interpret in the absence of additional and supporting
genealogical information. Beware of isolated triangulation!

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