Date   

Re: Joseph GOLDSTEIN from Bechovice and Chicago #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Linda Berkowitz >from Northbrook, IL wrote: "I am searching for information on
Jacob GOLDSTEIN born circa 1835 in Bohemia. He married a Julia WEISS and they
had at least one child, my great grandfather, Joseph GOLDSTEIN. Perhaps they
had other children, but I have never been able to discover if that is so.

According to his death certificate, Joseph GOLDSTEIN was born 11 June 1864 in
Bechovice, Bohemia. He died in 1925 in Chicago. ...

Any information on the GOLDSTEIN family or the village where he is from
would be greatly appreciated."

In the 1793 Jewish census of Bohemia there is only one inhabitant of Bechovice
[Biechowitz] which is situated in the Herrschaft Aurziniowes, Kaurzimer Kreis
[Kourimsky Kraj] - the widow Elizabeth POPPER Tabaktrafikantin with son Abraham
and four daughters - see vol II, p 145.

There are no GOLDSTEIN in the Kreis in 1793 and the place does not feature as a
chapter in Hugo Gold's Bohemia book either. Bechovice, as far as I can see, is
now a part of Prague.

Similarly, there are only two GOLDSTEIN in nearby Prague, one a student [Low]
from Leipnik, Moravia [Vol VI p. 152] and Samuel, a servant in the household
of the rich Abraham Duschensy [Money dealer] - Samuel comes >from Gistebnitz
[Vol VI p. 302] There are very few WEISS in Prague [where you find Weiseles]
but quite a few in the Kaurzimer Kreis.

I checked most of the 137 GOLDSTEIN in the Prague household registration
documents: http://digi.nacr.cz/prihlasky/ and at least eleven families were not
natives of Bohemia ie >from Poland {Auschwitz]; Galicia [Tarnopol and Skalat];
Vienna; Budapest; Neutra, Slovakia and Moravia {Stassnitz and Lomnitz} - so
Linda must also consider the possibility that her family were immigrants to
Bohemia and not long-time residents:

Max recte Marcus dob 1875 - wife Sara nee LIEBERMAN >from Tarnopol, Galicia
Mandl dob 1834 with wife Anna and son Siegmund >from Oswieciem [Auschwitz]
Luser dob 1848 with wife Josefa nee POLAK & family >from Skalat, Galicia
Abraham dob 1863 listed under son Max 1895 - and separately with wife Elisabeth
nee WITTLER - many faint notes >from >from Tarnopol, Galicia.
Moritz dob 1886 was >from Galgocz, Neutra, Hungary [now Slovakia]
Leopold [Ludwig] dob 1858 >from Budapest, Hungary
Guntram dob 1893 Vienna - a musician
Bernard dob 1858 [a cantor] with wife Amalie WUCHSTEIN >from Strassnitz, Moravia

Alexander dob 1859 [representative of an enamel company] - ditto his wife
Flora SCHNEKENDORF >from Budapest, Hungary.
Ignatz dob 1876 >from Galgocz, Neutra, Hungary, with wife Theresia in Vienna

Admittedly, Linda tells us that Jacob was born abt 1835 in Bohemia and this is
earlier than most of these immigrants - I wonder if Linda has proof he really
was born in Bohemia? If not, it is essential she obtains in the vital records
in Prague before looking further.

Celia Male [U.K.]


"Memel" as given name #general

Lancy
 

Have just found that my grandfather (in Eastern Galicia) had a sister named Memel.

Does anybody know the meaning or origin of this name?

Lancy Spalter
Kfar Tavor, Israel

Moderator Note: The Jewish Given Names Database is a wealth of information -
you can find it at: http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Joseph GOLDSTEIN from Bechovice and Chicago #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Linda Berkowitz >from Northbrook, IL wrote: "I am searching for information on
Jacob GOLDSTEIN born circa 1835 in Bohemia. He married a Julia WEISS and they
had at least one child, my great grandfather, Joseph GOLDSTEIN. Perhaps they
had other children, but I have never been able to discover if that is so.

According to his death certificate, Joseph GOLDSTEIN was born 11 June 1864 in
Bechovice, Bohemia. He died in 1925 in Chicago. ...

Any information on the GOLDSTEIN family or the village where he is from
would be greatly appreciated."

In the 1793 Jewish census of Bohemia there is only one inhabitant of Bechovice
[Biechowitz] which is situated in the Herrschaft Aurziniowes, Kaurzimer Kreis
[Kourimsky Kraj] - the widow Elizabeth POPPER Tabaktrafikantin with son Abraham
and four daughters - see vol II, p 145.

There are no GOLDSTEIN in the Kreis in 1793 and the place does not feature as a
chapter in Hugo Gold's Bohemia book either. Bechovice, as far as I can see, is
now a part of Prague.

Similarly, there are only two GOLDSTEIN in nearby Prague, one a student [Low]
from Leipnik, Moravia [Vol VI p. 152] and Samuel, a servant in the household
of the rich Abraham Duschensy [Money dealer] - Samuel comes >from Gistebnitz
[Vol VI p. 302] There are very few WEISS in Prague [where you find Weiseles]
but quite a few in the Kaurzimer Kreis.

I checked most of the 137 GOLDSTEIN in the Prague household registration
documents: http://digi.nacr.cz/prihlasky/ and at least eleven families were not
natives of Bohemia ie >from Poland {Auschwitz]; Galicia [Tarnopol and Skalat];
Vienna; Budapest; Neutra, Slovakia and Moravia {Stassnitz and Lomnitz} - so
Linda must also consider the possibility that her family were immigrants to
Bohemia and not long-time residents:

Max recte Marcus dob 1875 - wife Sara nee LIEBERMAN >from Tarnopol, Galicia
Mandl dob 1834 with wife Anna and son Siegmund >from Oswieciem [Auschwitz]
Luser dob 1848 with wife Josefa nee POLAK & family >from Skalat, Galicia
Abraham dob 1863 listed under son Max 1895 - and separately with wife Elisabeth
nee WITTLER - many faint notes >from >from Tarnopol, Galicia.
Moritz dob 1886 was >from Galgocz, Neutra, Hungary [now Slovakia]
Leopold [Ludwig] dob 1858 >from Budapest, Hungary
Guntram dob 1893 Vienna - a musician
Bernard dob 1858 [a cantor] with wife Amalie WUCHSTEIN >from Strassnitz, Moravia

Alexander dob 1859 [representative of an enamel company] - ditto his wife
Flora SCHNEKENDORF >from Budapest, Hungary.
Ignatz dob 1876 >from Galgocz, Neutra, Hungary, with wife Theresia in Vienna

Admittedly, Linda tells us that Jacob was born abt 1835 in Bohemia and this is
earlier than most of these immigrants - I wonder if Linda has proof he really
was born in Bohemia? If not, it is essential she obtains in the vital records
in Prague before looking further.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen "Memel" as given name #general

Lancy
 

Have just found that my grandfather (in Eastern Galicia) had a sister named Memel.

Does anybody know the meaning or origin of this name?

Lancy Spalter
Kfar Tavor, Israel

Moderator Note: The Jewish Given Names Database is a wealth of information -
you can find it at: http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/


Sciedliszcze Male (pow. Rostopolski) records #general

Leah Aharoni
 

I requested YIVO for records >from Siedliszcze (Lublin) but received records
from Sciedliszcze Male (Pow. Rostopolski). These include records and correspondence
between the community and Vaad Hayeshuvot in Vilna regarding the yeshiva and fund
raising. There is a list of donors with about 25 names. All records are >from 1920s
and 30s and are in Hebrew.

If interested, please contact me off-line.

Leah Aharoni
Email: leah25@017.net.il


Re: Do you recognize Merisz Ustroj? Probably in Galicia #general

Gloria Berkenstat Freund
 

I can't believe how quickly the answer to my question about Merisz Ustroj was
answered.

Everyone who answered my question agrees that the town I was looking for is Marisch
Ostrau (with an umlaut over the "a"), also known as Moravska Ostrava, in Moravia.

I have thanked them all in private messages and I thank them again publicly.

Gloria Berkenstat Freund
New York, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Sciedliszcze Male (pow. Rostopolski) records #general

Leah Aharoni
 

I requested YIVO for records >from Siedliszcze (Lublin) but received records
from Sciedliszcze Male (Pow. Rostopolski). These include records and correspondence
between the community and Vaad Hayeshuvot in Vilna regarding the yeshiva and fund
raising. There is a list of donors with about 25 names. All records are >from 1920s
and 30s and are in Hebrew.

If interested, please contact me off-line.

Leah Aharoni
Email: leah25@017.net.il


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Do you recognize Merisz Ustroj? Probably in Galicia #general

Gloria Berkenstat Freund
 

I can't believe how quickly the answer to my question about Merisz Ustroj was
answered.

Everyone who answered my question agrees that the town I was looking for is Marisch
Ostrau (with an umlaut over the "a"), also known as Moravska Ostrava, in Moravia.

I have thanked them all in private messages and I thank them again publicly.

Gloria Berkenstat Freund
New York, NY


ROSENTHAL {ROSEN} - KELBIG family from Plock, London and Essex #unitedkingdom

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Can someone please help me to find descendants of this ROSENTHAL family?
I believe Martha to be the sister of my grandmother Sara nee KELBIG COHEN
[listed as KLEINOT on one certificate and KELBIG on another].

I have only one surviving letter telling my father that Auntie Martha ROSENTHAL
died and I followed that through and eventually found all this:

1891 England Census
Gershon ROSENTHAL age: 40 [mistake!] Born: Poland, Russia
Estimated birth year: abt 1851; Spouse's name: Martha
Civil parish: Whitechapel St Mary;
Household Members: Gershon ROSENTHAL 40; Martha 30; Menn 11 [Emanuel]; Harry 7;
Moris 4 and Deby 15 and Mary KARSEL 51 Visitors.

1901 census: Gershon ROSENTHAL age: 39 Born: Poland, Russia
Civil parish: Mile End Old Town
Household Members: Gershon ROSENTHAL 39; Martha 40; Emanuel 11; Sany {Fanny?]
8; Miar [Jeremiah] 6; Leia [Isiah?] 3; Jacob 1

I have Miar's [Jeremiah] death certificate signed by his brother Jack {Jacob
above] ROSEN who in 1975 was living at xx Liston Way, Woodford Green, Essex.

I eventually found the KLEINOT [my father correctly remembered them emigrating
to S. Africa in the late 1800s when he was barely 7!] and their descendants
knew they used to visit the KELBIG/KILBIK/KIELBIG in London but did not know
why!

Here is Martha and Gershon's 1881 marriage in Plock Gubernia/Warsaw Province
ROZENTAL Gerszon Lajbus 1881; KELBIK Masza 1881 [>from Jri-pl]

This is very likely to be the birth of my grandmother:
Plock Gubernia/Warsaw Province: KIELBIK Sora Frayda 1865

Gershon ROSENTHAL was a Hebrew teacher - likewise my grandfather, Morris Aaron
COHEN [his brother-in-law], who taught at the Jews' Free School all his life.


I know Jeremiah had no children, but with probably four surviving siblings in
1901: Emmanuel, Fanny, Isiah, Jacob [and hopefully Morris?], I do hope that
there are some descendants someone, somewhere will recognise.

BTW the one KIELBIG family in the 1901 census lived in the same house where my
father was born in 1893, [113 Chalton St nr the new British Library], so that
is another definitive clue - and the KLEINOTs tell me there were no descendants
of the baby Marks KIELBIG [aged 1 in 1901]. Perversely, I cannot find my own
COHEN family in the 1901 census - my father would have been 7.

Finding the ROSENTHAL/ROSE family is now my only hope of ever knowing more -
this would be a major breakthrough for me - as I know virtually nothing about
my paternal family but my maternal Viennese family has a really huge family
tree.

Celia Male
London [U.K.]


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom ROSENTHAL {ROSEN} - KELBIG family from Plock, London and Essex #unitedkingdom

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Can someone please help me to find descendants of this ROSENTHAL family?
I believe Martha to be the sister of my grandmother Sara nee KELBIG COHEN
[listed as KLEINOT on one certificate and KELBIG on another].

I have only one surviving letter telling my father that Auntie Martha ROSENTHAL
died and I followed that through and eventually found all this:

1891 England Census
Gershon ROSENTHAL age: 40 [mistake!] Born: Poland, Russia
Estimated birth year: abt 1851; Spouse's name: Martha
Civil parish: Whitechapel St Mary;
Household Members: Gershon ROSENTHAL 40; Martha 30; Menn 11 [Emanuel]; Harry 7;
Moris 4 and Deby 15 and Mary KARSEL 51 Visitors.

1901 census: Gershon ROSENTHAL age: 39 Born: Poland, Russia
Civil parish: Mile End Old Town
Household Members: Gershon ROSENTHAL 39; Martha 40; Emanuel 11; Sany {Fanny?]
8; Miar [Jeremiah] 6; Leia [Isiah?] 3; Jacob 1

I have Miar's [Jeremiah] death certificate signed by his brother Jack {Jacob
above] ROSEN who in 1975 was living at xx Liston Way, Woodford Green, Essex.

I eventually found the KLEINOT [my father correctly remembered them emigrating
to S. Africa in the late 1800s when he was barely 7!] and their descendants
knew they used to visit the KELBIG/KILBIK/KIELBIG in London but did not know
why!

Here is Martha and Gershon's 1881 marriage in Plock Gubernia/Warsaw Province
ROZENTAL Gerszon Lajbus 1881; KELBIK Masza 1881 [>from Jri-pl]

This is very likely to be the birth of my grandmother:
Plock Gubernia/Warsaw Province: KIELBIK Sora Frayda 1865

Gershon ROSENTHAL was a Hebrew teacher - likewise my grandfather, Morris Aaron
COHEN [his brother-in-law], who taught at the Jews' Free School all his life.


I know Jeremiah had no children, but with probably four surviving siblings in
1901: Emmanuel, Fanny, Isiah, Jacob [and hopefully Morris?], I do hope that
there are some descendants someone, somewhere will recognise.

BTW the one KIELBIG family in the 1901 census lived in the same house where my
father was born in 1893, [113 Chalton St nr the new British Library], so that
is another definitive clue - and the KLEINOTs tell me there were no descendants
of the baby Marks KIELBIG [aged 1 in 1901]. Perversely, I cannot find my own
COHEN family in the 1901 census - my father would have been 7.

Finding the ROSENTHAL/ROSE family is now my only hope of ever knowing more -
this would be a major breakthrough for me - as I know virtually nothing about
my paternal family but my maternal Viennese family has a really huge family
tree.

Celia Male
London [U.K.]


Re: The Value of 1939 German Marks #germany

MBernet@...
 

==You hyperinflated the date by 10 years. The great inflation started at the
end of 1922, raged through 1923 but was being pulled back by the end of the year.
Full control was reestablished in 1924.

==In 1933, a Mark would buy four or eight icecreams, tickets for five on a
streetcar, a dozen rolls or three loaves of bread. I think a beginning,
unskilled female worker earned less than 10 Marks a week.
==I don't recall that we ever took a ride to Australia.

Michael Bernet NYC MBernet@aol.com


German SIG #Germany Re: The Value of 1939 German Marks #germany

MBernet@...
 

==You hyperinflated the date by 10 years. The great inflation started at the
end of 1922, raged through 1923 but was being pulled back by the end of the year.
Full control was reestablished in 1924.

==In 1933, a Mark would buy four or eight icecreams, tickets for five on a
streetcar, a dozen rolls or three loaves of bread. I think a beginning,
unskilled female worker earned less than 10 Marks a week.
==I don't recall that we ever took a ride to Australia.

Michael Bernet NYC MBernet@aol.com


Re: The Value of 1939 German Marks #germany

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

Geoff:
The really bad inflation in Germany was in 1921-23, and ended when the
new currency (nicknamed the "Rentenmark") was pegged at 4.3 to the US
dollar--a level close to which one could find the Mark for most of the
next 50 years. (Also close to what it had been before WW I.) True, the
German economy overheated in the late 1930s, but that wouldn't have
affected the exchange rate too much.

Currency equating over time is always a dicey business, and there are
many special considerations to be made when thinking of your
grandparents' case. For one thing, Jews hadn't been able to hold
certain jobs for several years by then. (Except for Upper Silesia,
where your grandmother was born--there, the racial laws were essentially
invalid until 14 Jul 1937.)

The M2000 would probably have come >from sale of a house or other
property; but of course such a sale would have been made under
circumstances unfavorable to the seller.

You might try http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/current/howmuch.html,
which has links to many sites that look at value of money over time.
Haven't tried them myself--if you find any that are especially relevant
or otherwise notable, let us know! Best,

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA

Geoff Kaiser <geoff.kaiser@hotmail.com> wrote:

Does any one have any suggestions on determing the equivalent value of
1939 German marks in 2007 $, or perhaps the typical or average wages in
Germany at about that time. I know that inflation was extraordinary at
this time, so maybe this is not such as easy question.
I have some documents regarding the cost for fares for my grandparents
to travel by ship >from Germany to Australia (2000 marks) and was curious
to try and value that in current $$


German SIG #Germany Re: The Value of 1939 German Marks #germany

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

Geoff:
The really bad inflation in Germany was in 1921-23, and ended when the
new currency (nicknamed the "Rentenmark") was pegged at 4.3 to the US
dollar--a level close to which one could find the Mark for most of the
next 50 years. (Also close to what it had been before WW I.) True, the
German economy overheated in the late 1930s, but that wouldn't have
affected the exchange rate too much.

Currency equating over time is always a dicey business, and there are
many special considerations to be made when thinking of your
grandparents' case. For one thing, Jews hadn't been able to hold
certain jobs for several years by then. (Except for Upper Silesia,
where your grandmother was born--there, the racial laws were essentially
invalid until 14 Jul 1937.)

The M2000 would probably have come >from sale of a house or other
property; but of course such a sale would have been made under
circumstances unfavorable to the seller.

You might try http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/current/howmuch.html,
which has links to many sites that look at value of money over time.
Haven't tried them myself--if you find any that are especially relevant
or otherwise notable, let us know! Best,

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA

Geoff Kaiser <geoff.kaiser@hotmail.com> wrote:

Does any one have any suggestions on determing the equivalent value of
1939 German marks in 2007 $, or perhaps the typical or average wages in
Germany at about that time. I know that inflation was extraordinary at
this time, so maybe this is not such as easy question.
I have some documents regarding the cost for fares for my grandparents
to travel by ship >from Germany to Australia (2000 marks) and was curious
to try and value that in current $$


Finding photographs from pre-WW2 Poland and post-WW2 Belgium #galicia

Toni Platus
 

Hi,

I have started sorting my grandparents' old, pre-WW2 photos of which
there are very few as both my grandparents were Holocaust survivors
who lost many family members during the years of WW2. In fact, my
grandfather was the sole survivor of his immediate family of 8
children.

These photos, which include images of family members who were killed,
are in very poor condition but I have noticed on the back of some of
them a stamp of the photographer responsible for taking these
pictures.

My grandmother was born in Chrzanow, Poland (family names:
SILBERBERG, FEINTUCH, KRAKAUER, FRAJMAN) and one of the photos has
a circular stamp with "Fotograf Chrzanow RUBIN" on the back. Another
has "Foto-Street Chrzanow, B. Pi?raeklego 17h" on the back. (The
stamp on this photo is very faint and I can't make out one of the
letters.)

My grandfather was born in Brzesko, Poland (family names:
FEIBYSOWICZ, GARTENBERG). Some of the photos of his family are
stamped "J. SOBOLEWSKI Brzesko" and "Foto-SROKOWA, Brzesko."

My grandparents met as refugees in Brussels, Belgium at the end of
WW2 and got married and had my Mum there too. There are some studio
photos taken of them and some of the relatives that survived the war
with them:

Studio PRINCE
102, rue de Merode, 102
Bruxelles

Studio WILLY
32, Bd Botanique, 32
Bruxelles

I know it's a very long shot, and I assume that in most cases old
negatives and photos >from pre-WW2 Poland have been destroyed, but
has anyone had any success in tracking down where old photos and
negatives >from these places (or any others) may be found/stored?

Toni Platus
Melbourne, Australia


Searching for information regarding Abraham LEVINE and Nechama SHERMAN #galicia

Melanie Grishman
 

I am searching for information regarding Abraham LEVINE and Nechama
SHERMAN, who were the parents of my paternal grandmother, Annie
LEVINE. Family lore says they were >from Krakow. I have found nothing
in my searches but if anyone happens on anything while searching I
would appreciate the assistance. I do not know if they had other
children or if they immigrated. Annie immigrated to the U.S. prior
to 1912 but died in 1919 at a young age. I was able to get her
parents' names >from her death certificate.

Any leads or assistance would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Melanie Grishman

Researching GRISHMAN, GREENBERG >from Khotin, Bessarabia,
and LEVINE, SHERMAN >from Krakow.


"Memel" as given name #galicia

Lancy
 

Have just found that my grandfather (in Eastern Galicia) had a sister
named Memel.

Does anybody know the meaning or origin of this name?

Lancy Spalter
Kfar Tavor, Israel


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Finding photographs from pre-WW2 Poland and post-WW2 Belgium #galicia

Toni Platus
 

Hi,

I have started sorting my grandparents' old, pre-WW2 photos of which
there are very few as both my grandparents were Holocaust survivors
who lost many family members during the years of WW2. In fact, my
grandfather was the sole survivor of his immediate family of 8
children.

These photos, which include images of family members who were killed,
are in very poor condition but I have noticed on the back of some of
them a stamp of the photographer responsible for taking these
pictures.

My grandmother was born in Chrzanow, Poland (family names:
SILBERBERG, FEINTUCH, KRAKAUER, FRAJMAN) and one of the photos has
a circular stamp with "Fotograf Chrzanow RUBIN" on the back. Another
has "Foto-Street Chrzanow, B. Pi?raeklego 17h" on the back. (The
stamp on this photo is very faint and I can't make out one of the
letters.)

My grandfather was born in Brzesko, Poland (family names:
FEIBYSOWICZ, GARTENBERG). Some of the photos of his family are
stamped "J. SOBOLEWSKI Brzesko" and "Foto-SROKOWA, Brzesko."

My grandparents met as refugees in Brussels, Belgium at the end of
WW2 and got married and had my Mum there too. There are some studio
photos taken of them and some of the relatives that survived the war
with them:

Studio PRINCE
102, rue de Merode, 102
Bruxelles

Studio WILLY
32, Bd Botanique, 32
Bruxelles

I know it's a very long shot, and I assume that in most cases old
negatives and photos >from pre-WW2 Poland have been destroyed, but
has anyone had any success in tracking down where old photos and
negatives >from these places (or any others) may be found/stored?

Toni Platus
Melbourne, Australia


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Searching for information regarding Abraham LEVINE and Nechama SHERMAN #galicia

Melanie Grishman
 

I am searching for information regarding Abraham LEVINE and Nechama
SHERMAN, who were the parents of my paternal grandmother, Annie
LEVINE. Family lore says they were >from Krakow. I have found nothing
in my searches but if anyone happens on anything while searching I
would appreciate the assistance. I do not know if they had other
children or if they immigrated. Annie immigrated to the U.S. prior
to 1912 but died in 1919 at a young age. I was able to get her
parents' names >from her death certificate.

Any leads or assistance would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Melanie Grishman

Researching GRISHMAN, GREENBERG >from Khotin, Bessarabia,
and LEVINE, SHERMAN >from Krakow.


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia "Memel" as given name #galicia

Lancy
 

Have just found that my grandfather (in Eastern Galicia) had a sister
named Memel.

Does anybody know the meaning or origin of this name?

Lancy Spalter
Kfar Tavor, Israel