Date   

Re: Count Potocki and surname adoption (belarus digest: December 27, 2004) #belarus

NFatouros@...
 

The online Jewish encyclopedia (www.jewishencyclopedia.com) has a brief
article about the convert Count Valentine (Abraham) Potocki.

As for the thread regarding the adoption of Jewish families of the surname of
a gentile landowner or magnate, some years ago I got the idea that my
BELKOWSKYs took their name >from someone named Belkowsky or Bielkowski or some
variant for whom they once worked in some capacity. This idea was later
substantiated by Fred (William) Hoffman. Through the Internet I've even found a Zaporog
Cossack named Ivan Belkowsky, whose date was given 1668!

One of these days I will learn where the estate to which my BELKOWSKYs were
associated was located.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@...
BELKOWSKY,BIELKOWSKY, BILKOWSKI, Odessa,St. Petersburg,Berdichev,
Kiev;ROTHSTEIN, Kremenchug;FRASCH,Kiev;LIBERMAN,Moscow;FELDMAN, Pinsk;
SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets;LEVY, WEIL, Mulhouse; SAS/SASS,Podwolochisk;
RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Podwolochisk, Radomysl?; BEHAM, Salok, Kharkov;
WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Count Potocki and surname adoption (belarus digest: December 27, 2004) #belarus

NFatouros@...
 

The online Jewish encyclopedia (www.jewishencyclopedia.com) has a brief
article about the convert Count Valentine (Abraham) Potocki.

As for the thread regarding the adoption of Jewish families of the surname of
a gentile landowner or magnate, some years ago I got the idea that my
BELKOWSKYs took their name >from someone named Belkowsky or Bielkowski or some
variant for whom they once worked in some capacity. This idea was later
substantiated by Fred (William) Hoffman. Through the Internet I've even found a Zaporog
Cossack named Ivan Belkowsky, whose date was given 1668!

One of these days I will learn where the estate to which my BELKOWSKYs were
associated was located.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@...
BELKOWSKY,BIELKOWSKY, BILKOWSKI, Odessa,St. Petersburg,Berdichev,
Kiev;ROTHSTEIN, Kremenchug;FRASCH,Kiev;LIBERMAN,Moscow;FELDMAN, Pinsk;
SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets;LEVY, WEIL, Mulhouse; SAS/SASS,Podwolochisk;
RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Podwolochisk, Radomysl?; BEHAM, Salok, Kharkov;
WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


zembin #belarus

jokrohn1@juno.com <jokrohn1@...>
 

To the group.

I have been spending a lot of time looking into revision lists and ship
manifests and I have come up to a brick wall. I am looking for my great
grandmothers family: Pudnos or Podnos >from Zembin. I am sure her father, Moshe

Pudnos b. around 1848, had sisters. I have yet to find mariage information. How

would I be able to obtain such information?

Does anyone know anything about Zembin??? It is a small villiage in Minsk.

Thanks.
Josepha Krohn
Chicago, IL
Jokrohn1@...


Belarus SIG #Belarus zembin #belarus

jokrohn1@juno.com <jokrohn1@...>
 

To the group.

I have been spending a lot of time looking into revision lists and ship
manifests and I have come up to a brick wall. I am looking for my great
grandmothers family: Pudnos or Podnos >from Zembin. I am sure her father, Moshe

Pudnos b. around 1848, had sisters. I have yet to find mariage information. How

would I be able to obtain such information?

Does anyone know anything about Zembin??? It is a small villiage in Minsk.

Thanks.
Josepha Krohn
Chicago, IL
Jokrohn1@...


Re: Countess PATAZKI of Vysokoye #belarus

Jenni Buch
 

A couple of years ago Brigham Young University ceremonially donated to
the Polish national archives its collection of historic manuscripts of the
Potocki family. The Potockis were immensely wealthy and owned many
estates.
Some of the Potockis were very hospitable toward the Jews, probably only
for only self -serving reasons and at least one of them became a convert to
Judaism.
Prior to 1775, the region was part of the Polish Commonwealth. A Polish
magnate, or prince or count, owned much of the area, including Novaya
Ushitsa.
Jenni Buch
Melbourne Australia


Belarus SIG #Belarus RE: Countess PATAZKI of Vysokoye #belarus

Jenni Buch
 

A couple of years ago Brigham Young University ceremonially donated to
the Polish national archives its collection of historic manuscripts of the
Potocki family. The Potockis were immensely wealthy and owned many
estates.
Some of the Potockis were very hospitable toward the Jews, probably only
for only self -serving reasons and at least one of them became a convert to
Judaism.
Prior to 1775, the region was part of the Polish Commonwealth. A Polish
magnate, or prince or count, owned much of the area, including Novaya
Ushitsa.
Jenni Buch
Melbourne Australia


SPIELMANN #austria-czech

Freddy Spielmann <FreddySpielmann@...>
 

Hello,

I look for each information to Leopold Adolph SPIELMANN, born in
Pohrlitz/South Moravia to 08.02.1846, son Adam SPIELMANN, Goldsmith, and
the Hanna LANDESMANN.

Leopold Adolph SPIELMANN converted before 1879 (probably in Vienna) to
the catholic religion and died 1884 as a Watchmaker in Hirschberg a. Saale/
Germany.

First results show a large occurrence of the name SPIELMANN of Nikolsburg
and Pohrlitz. In the listing of the Mr. Gundacker/Wien I read that
Birth- Marriage- Death index is to lie in archives to Prague.
Does someone have of it knowledge, when these recordings to begin?

I am grateful for each reference and ask my bad English to excuse.

With kind regards

Freddy Spielmann, Berlin


Re: FRIED and SOMMER Where to go from here? #austria-czech

Vitdoc@...
 

In my family the names FRIED and SOMMERS are found married into my FISCHERS
and BERGMANN family. There were also FRIEDS and LEDERERS married to each other.
It has been my experince that in the 1800's certain families repeatly married
others >from the same families. My SCHWARTZKOPFS married KLAUBERS more than
once. I have an Elizabeth Bergmann born in 1890 married to an Emil FRIED.
They had 2 children Arnost and Irena--all perished in the Shoah. I offer
this as just one more possible clue to finding connections.
Susan Boyer
LA CA


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech SPIELMANN #austria-czech

Freddy Spielmann <FreddySpielmann@...>
 

Hello,

I look for each information to Leopold Adolph SPIELMANN, born in
Pohrlitz/South Moravia to 08.02.1846, son Adam SPIELMANN, Goldsmith, and
the Hanna LANDESMANN.

Leopold Adolph SPIELMANN converted before 1879 (probably in Vienna) to
the catholic religion and died 1884 as a Watchmaker in Hirschberg a. Saale/
Germany.

First results show a large occurrence of the name SPIELMANN of Nikolsburg
and Pohrlitz. In the listing of the Mr. Gundacker/Wien I read that
Birth- Marriage- Death index is to lie in archives to Prague.
Does someone have of it knowledge, when these recordings to begin?

I am grateful for each reference and ask my bad English to excuse.

With kind regards

Freddy Spielmann, Berlin


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: FRIED and SOMMER Where to go from here? #austria-czech

Vitdoc@...
 

In my family the names FRIED and SOMMERS are found married into my FISCHERS
and BERGMANN family. There were also FRIEDS and LEDERERS married to each other.
It has been my experince that in the 1800's certain families repeatly married
others >from the same families. My SCHWARTZKOPFS married KLAUBERS more than
once. I have an Elizabeth Bergmann born in 1890 married to an Emil FRIED.
They had 2 children Arnost and Irena--all perished in the Shoah. I offer
this as just one more possible clue to finding connections.
Susan Boyer
LA CA


Re: Judenrat, Vienna - Erich & Grete Breuer & Spronz #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser wrote: Personally. I find it
inconceivable that anyone should want to sell such a
document as a card posted >from Theresienstadt on the
open market. Even if it's of no personal value, it is
of value to a keeper of records, such as the Yad
Vashem or ... I have seen a vast collection in the
Jewish museum in Vienna of unclaimed family judaica
....the remnants of families that are no more.

Robert - we have no idea what happened to documents of
victims of Theresienstadt and other concentration
camps. A "thank you" card sent *from* Theresienstadt
to Vienna in WW2 might have been cleared out by the
fledgling IKG when they were reinstated after the
Judenrat era. Luckily some were rescued >from a skip or
perhaps the documents were sent to a second-hand
bookshop and a few survived. Perhaps the reviled
BREUERs of the Judenrat kept these cards - but
what happened to the BREUERs?

As to letters *to* concentration inmates who were
murdered, perhaps survivors rescued them? In turn,
on their deaths, they may have been cleared out by a
house clearance company or by unrelated people who had
no idea what to do with them.

The card I saw was being sold by a dealer in Israel -
I too thought it would be more seemly if it was given
to a museum; however there are collectors/dealers who
display the cards on the internet for all to see.

Some can be found by typing: SPRONR

into the browser. According to Jewishgen rules I am
cannot post the URL as it refers to a commercial
dealer in Vienna. I hate to think of the various
routes these cards ended up in Vienna.

Here you will see a postcard >from Moritz SPRONR {sic}
This is a mistranscription. The name should be SPRONZ.
It is a rare name in Vienna. There are two SPRONZ
buried [see cemetery database*] in Vienna:

Amalia age 83 died 09.02.1934 ZF Tor IV. 22 6 32
Hermine age 41 died 06.01.1914 ZF Tor I. 50 34 31A

There is one Viennese victim [see Letter to the
Stars*]: Isidor was born in ? on 25.02.1864. His last
known address was Vienna 1, Kohlmarkt 5/11. Isidor
SPRONZ was deported to Riga on 6.02.1942. No
further data is available.

There is no mention on Moritz on Letter to the Stars
but he listed on the Yad Vashem database*: Moritz
SPRONZ was born in Verbo in 1887. During the war
he lived in Vienna at 2, Pillersdorfgasse 9. Moritz
survived the Shoah was liberated at Terezin.
I assume Verbo is Verboc/Vrbovce, now in Slovakia.

As well as Moritz, his card survives. I would like to
think that the oats sent by the BREUERs helped
save his life. Not surprisingly Moritz was never
reunited with his postcard. His family, if he had any,
may have no idea of its existence, especially as it is
indexed under SPRONR!

So here's a 2005 challenge to our SIG. If you can find
Moritz SPRONZ's family you could alert them to his
historic card. This is the sort of research which is
miraculously possible as a result of the internet.
Enter "Verbo" into the Yad Vashem database under
location and SPRONZ in the name slot and "surprise,
surprise" you will find five SPRONZ entries - two have
pages of testimony >from Israel with 1999 addresses.
I need a willing volunteer to follow this through.

If you follow every trail, you usually find a
fascinating tale. This one could have a happy ending.

And finally, please make sure that your memorabilia
does not end up with a dealer or house-clearance
agency.

Celia Male [UK]

* Website references:

http://friedhof.ikg-wien.at/search.asp?lang=de
http://www.lettertothestars.at
http://www.yadvashem.org


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Judenrat, Vienna - Erich & Grete Breuer & Spronz #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser wrote: Personally. I find it
inconceivable that anyone should want to sell such a
document as a card posted >from Theresienstadt on the
open market. Even if it's of no personal value, it is
of value to a keeper of records, such as the Yad
Vashem or ... I have seen a vast collection in the
Jewish museum in Vienna of unclaimed family judaica
....the remnants of families that are no more.

Robert - we have no idea what happened to documents of
victims of Theresienstadt and other concentration
camps. A "thank you" card sent *from* Theresienstadt
to Vienna in WW2 might have been cleared out by the
fledgling IKG when they were reinstated after the
Judenrat era. Luckily some were rescued >from a skip or
perhaps the documents were sent to a second-hand
bookshop and a few survived. Perhaps the reviled
BREUERs of the Judenrat kept these cards - but
what happened to the BREUERs?

As to letters *to* concentration inmates who were
murdered, perhaps survivors rescued them? In turn,
on their deaths, they may have been cleared out by a
house clearance company or by unrelated people who had
no idea what to do with them.

The card I saw was being sold by a dealer in Israel -
I too thought it would be more seemly if it was given
to a museum; however there are collectors/dealers who
display the cards on the internet for all to see.

Some can be found by typing: SPRONR

into the browser. According to Jewishgen rules I am
cannot post the URL as it refers to a commercial
dealer in Vienna. I hate to think of the various
routes these cards ended up in Vienna.

Here you will see a postcard >from Moritz SPRONR {sic}
This is a mistranscription. The name should be SPRONZ.
It is a rare name in Vienna. There are two SPRONZ
buried [see cemetery database*] in Vienna:

Amalia age 83 died 09.02.1934 ZF Tor IV. 22 6 32
Hermine age 41 died 06.01.1914 ZF Tor I. 50 34 31A

There is one Viennese victim [see Letter to the
Stars*]: Isidor was born in ? on 25.02.1864. His last
known address was Vienna 1, Kohlmarkt 5/11. Isidor
SPRONZ was deported to Riga on 6.02.1942. No
further data is available.

There is no mention on Moritz on Letter to the Stars
but he listed on the Yad Vashem database*: Moritz
SPRONZ was born in Verbo in 1887. During the war
he lived in Vienna at 2, Pillersdorfgasse 9. Moritz
survived the Shoah was liberated at Terezin.
I assume Verbo is Verboc/Vrbovce, now in Slovakia.

As well as Moritz, his card survives. I would like to
think that the oats sent by the BREUERs helped
save his life. Not surprisingly Moritz was never
reunited with his postcard. His family, if he had any,
may have no idea of its existence, especially as it is
indexed under SPRONR!

So here's a 2005 challenge to our SIG. If you can find
Moritz SPRONZ's family you could alert them to his
historic card. This is the sort of research which is
miraculously possible as a result of the internet.
Enter "Verbo" into the Yad Vashem database under
location and SPRONZ in the name slot and "surprise,
surprise" you will find five SPRONZ entries - two have
pages of testimony >from Israel with 1999 addresses.
I need a willing volunteer to follow this through.

If you follow every trail, you usually find a
fascinating tale. This one could have a happy ending.

And finally, please make sure that your memorabilia
does not end up with a dealer or house-clearance
agency.

Celia Male [UK]

* Website references:

http://friedhof.ikg-wien.at/search.asp?lang=de
http://www.lettertothestars.at
http://www.yadvashem.org


Makkabi Wien #austria-czech

ארי ובני <aribenny@...>
 

Dear Members,

I am looking for a publication of the Maccabi in Vienna which was published
in the early 1920 and dealt not necessarily with sports but also in Zionism
and general matters which concerned the Jewish people at the time.

Does anybody have any idea how this publication was called or where I could
find it?

Best Wishes form Israel,
Ariel Avriel-Sheffer


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Makkabi Wien #austria-czech

ארי ובני <aribenny@...>
 

Dear Members,

I am looking for a publication of the Maccabi in Vienna which was published
in the early 1920 and dealt not necessarily with sports but also in Zionism
and general matters which concerned the Jewish people at the time.

Does anybody have any idea how this publication was called or where I could
find it?

Best Wishes form Israel,
Ariel Avriel-Sheffer


Re: Naming patterns #general

Print True Color <printtruecolor@...>
 

I know personally that I was named after my grandfather and so were
two other female cousins. My sister was also named after a male
relative.

I remember my parents talking about a boy being named after a
female relative.

This was all in South Africa.

All the best,

Tybi

MODERATOR'S NOTE: We have established with a number of examples
that children in the Pale of Settlement, as well as among emigrants,
were named after deceased relatives of a different gender. Therefore
this thread is closed.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Naming patterns #lithuania

Print True Color <printtruecolor@...>
 

I know personally that I was named after my grandfather and so were
two other female cousins. My sister was also named after a male
relative.

I remember my parents talking about a boy being named after a
female relative.

This was all in South Africa.

All the best,

Tybi

MODERATOR'S NOTE: We have established with a number of examples
that children in the Pale of Settlement, as well as among emigrants,
were named after deceased relatives of a different gender. Therefore
this thread is closed.


Submitter of PoT Moshe RAZON for URISOHN nieces #poland

Lthorpe883@...
 

Hi All-
I am searching for Moshe RAZON, or his family, who submitted 2 Pages
of Testimony for sisters Peshka/Pasha and Sofia/Sonia URISOHN in 1957.
Their father's name was not listed. Peshka was listed as single, and
her sister was a Dentist, also single. No ages were given.

They were born and lived in Vilkaviskis. My great grandfather Uriah
URISOHN/URYNSON came >from Vilkaviskis.

It is perhaps only a coincidence, but their Mother's name was Hinda,
and my grandmother's name was Hinda URYNSON.

I would appreciate any help you can offer and I thank you in advance.

Linda Thorpe Caciola
Venice, CA (Los Angeles)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


JRI Poland #Poland Submitter of PoT Moshe RAZON for URISOHN nieces #poland

Lthorpe883@...
 

Hi All-
I am searching for Moshe RAZON, or his family, who submitted 2 Pages
of Testimony for sisters Peshka/Pasha and Sofia/Sonia URISOHN in 1957.
Their father's name was not listed. Peshka was listed as single, and
her sister was a Dentist, also single. No ages were given.

They were born and lived in Vilkaviskis. My great grandfather Uriah
URISOHN/URYNSON came >from Vilkaviskis.

It is perhaps only a coincidence, but their Mother's name was Hinda,
and my grandmother's name was Hinda URYNSON.

I would appreciate any help you can offer and I thank you in advance.

Linda Thorpe Caciola
Venice, CA (Los Angeles)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


View Mate - 1891 German Marriage Certificate #poland

Geoff Kaiser <geoff_kaiser@...>
 

Dear researchers

I have a marriage certificate for my great grandparents >from 1891 in
Ostrowo. The assistance in translating >from German to English
would be much appreciated. Also any thoughts on what the town
is currently known as and its location would be useful. There
appear to be a number of locations with very similar names.

The certificate is spread across two viewmate files VM 5254 and
VM 5255.

Go to http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

Private responses to Geoff_Kaiser@...

Thank you in advance for your assistance

Regards
Geoff Kaiser
Melbourne
Australia


JRI Poland #Poland View Mate - 1891 German Marriage Certificate #poland

Geoff Kaiser <geoff_kaiser@...>
 

Dear researchers

I have a marriage certificate for my great grandparents >from 1891 in
Ostrowo. The assistance in translating >from German to English
would be much appreciated. Also any thoughts on what the town
is currently known as and its location would be useful. There
appear to be a number of locations with very similar names.

The certificate is spread across two viewmate files VM 5254 and
VM 5255.

Go to http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

Private responses to Geoff_Kaiser@...

Thank you in advance for your assistance

Regards
Geoff Kaiser
Melbourne
Australia