Date   

Question about 1/2 second cousins #dna

Sarah L Meyer
 

Genners,
I am fairly new to DNA testing. In April I did the family finder test
and my mtDNA. After learning that my DNA confirmed that I was 100% Jewish
and that I had a large number of matches, I started testing cousins to try
to triangulate my results (so that I could figure out which matches came
from which lines). I then tested my second cousin on my father's side and
our match came out where it should. Because one of my second cousins once
removed is elderly and not in good health, I tested him next, and the
suggested relationship was "distant" cousin according to family tree DNA. I
ran the same data through GEDMATCH.com and the suggested relationship (using
their defaults) was 3.5 generations to MRCA (most recent common ancestor) -
which would be consistent with second cousin once removed. It appears that
we may only be related in one way, which means that the correction factor
for inbred populations - lost a true relationship (I think that this is what
would be called a type I error). This extra distance has not helped with
the triangulation.

In particular I am a suspected member of a Rabbinical family >from my family
finder results (until now I have had no Rabbinical ties in the 40+ years of
paper trail genealogy). My grandmother apparently told my mother that she
had "Yichus" but no one ever knew how). I am especially interested in which
line this Rabbinical family may come through, and my grandmother is my
leading candidate.

Now my paternal grandmother was the only child of a widow who married a
widower, there are descendants of her half siblings, who would be my 1/2
second cousins. Given the problems that showed up when I tested my second
cousin once removed, is it worth it to consider testing them to help
triangulate? I would be able to find one male 1/2 second cousin on her
father's side and a female 1/2 second cousin on her mother's side.

I am interested in what your thoughts are about this. I have not contacted
these cousins yet, because I don't know if it would be worthwhile.

Sarah L Meyer


IGRA - The next generation of genealogy in Israel is here! #dna

Jean-Pierre Stroweis
 

Dear researchers,

The next generation of genealogy in Israel is here!
To welcome 2012 we are happy to announce the launch of activities for the
Israel Genealogy Research Association (IGRA). IGRA is bringing new
technology, new energy and new excitement to genealogy in Israel.
We are dedicated to being completely open to all groups within Israel and
outside of Israel. We welcome everyone interested in genealogy. One of our
driving forces is to open up as many possible data sources as we can to the
public.
We strive to use the latest technologies to reach the most people we can
with our content. Our website can be accessed at www.genealogy.org.il . The
center of the organization will be this web site, which will host videos,
webinars, articles on genealogy, research guides, our calendar of events and
more. The website is in English but "multi-lingual" with a translation
option into several additional languages.
Please visit the website and register (free) in order to receive increased
access, to stay informed on everything going on and to allow us to be in
contact with you about our activities.
There are many benefits of membership as well and we hope you will consider
joining us in this exciting endeavor.

On the behalf of IGRA,
Jean-Pierre Stroweis
Jerusalem


DNA Research #DNA Question about 1/2 second cousins #dna

Sarah L Meyer
 

Genners,
I am fairly new to DNA testing. In April I did the family finder test
and my mtDNA. After learning that my DNA confirmed that I was 100% Jewish
and that I had a large number of matches, I started testing cousins to try
to triangulate my results (so that I could figure out which matches came
from which lines). I then tested my second cousin on my father's side and
our match came out where it should. Because one of my second cousins once
removed is elderly and not in good health, I tested him next, and the
suggested relationship was "distant" cousin according to family tree DNA. I
ran the same data through GEDMATCH.com and the suggested relationship (using
their defaults) was 3.5 generations to MRCA (most recent common ancestor) -
which would be consistent with second cousin once removed. It appears that
we may only be related in one way, which means that the correction factor
for inbred populations - lost a true relationship (I think that this is what
would be called a type I error). This extra distance has not helped with
the triangulation.

In particular I am a suspected member of a Rabbinical family >from my family
finder results (until now I have had no Rabbinical ties in the 40+ years of
paper trail genealogy). My grandmother apparently told my mother that she
had "Yichus" but no one ever knew how). I am especially interested in which
line this Rabbinical family may come through, and my grandmother is my
leading candidate.

Now my paternal grandmother was the only child of a widow who married a
widower, there are descendants of her half siblings, who would be my 1/2
second cousins. Given the problems that showed up when I tested my second
cousin once removed, is it worth it to consider testing them to help
triangulate? I would be able to find one male 1/2 second cousin on her
father's side and a female 1/2 second cousin on her mother's side.

I am interested in what your thoughts are about this. I have not contacted
these cousins yet, because I don't know if it would be worthwhile.

Sarah L Meyer


DNA Research #DNA IGRA - The next generation of genealogy in Israel is here! #dna

Jean-Pierre Stroweis
 

Dear researchers,

The next generation of genealogy in Israel is here!
To welcome 2012 we are happy to announce the launch of activities for the
Israel Genealogy Research Association (IGRA). IGRA is bringing new
technology, new energy and new excitement to genealogy in Israel.
We are dedicated to being completely open to all groups within Israel and
outside of Israel. We welcome everyone interested in genealogy. One of our
driving forces is to open up as many possible data sources as we can to the
public.
We strive to use the latest technologies to reach the most people we can
with our content. Our website can be accessed at www.genealogy.org.il . The
center of the organization will be this web site, which will host videos,
webinars, articles on genealogy, research guides, our calendar of events and
more. The website is in English but "multi-lingual" with a translation
option into several additional languages.
Please visit the website and register (free) in order to receive increased
access, to stay informed on everything going on and to allow us to be in
contact with you about our activities.
There are many benefits of membership as well and we hope you will consider
joining us in this exciting endeavor.

On the behalf of IGRA,
Jean-Pierre Stroweis
Jerusalem


New JewishGen Course: Create Family History Pages #danzig #gdansk #germany #poland

Phyllis Kramer
 

Do you have a lot of genealogical family material to share and want to
organize it into a set of images, but don't know how? Marlis Humphrey
will explain and demonstrate how to create image rich family history
pages for your family.

Students will learn how to layout, design, and edit a quality family
history page set for two ancestors,that can be broadened at a later
time. You will learn to include documents like census, naturalization
and photographs of your family, heirlooms and memorabilia .

Students will discover sources of digital resources (templates, fonts,
etc.) for formatting, and will walk through a project using Photoshop
Elements 10 for editing; students will learn how to format the pages
for printing using Shutterfly.

Class will feature multimedia including a series of short screencasts
with voice narration, powerpoint instructions and text notes for
reference. We will use the FORUM for questions and answers and we will
encourage students to post their digital pages (.jpg files) for review
and comment.

*Please* read the full course description and the software requirements
at www.jewishgen.org/education; there are no set times for this
course as our students are >from around the world; enroll via our secure
online enrollment system.

Please address all questions to JewishGen-Education@lyris.jewishgen.org

Phyllis Kramer
VP, Education: www.JewishGen.org/education
NYC and Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.


New JewishGen Course: Create Family History Pages #scandinavia

Phyllis Kramer
 

Do you have a lot of genealogical family material to share and want to
organize it into a set of images, but don't know how? Marlis Humphrey
will explain and demonstrate how to create image rich family history
pages for your family.

Students will learn how to layout, design, and edit a quality family
history page set for two ancestors,that can be broadened at a later
time. You will learn to include documents like census, naturalization
and photographs of your family, heirlooms and memorabilia .

Students will discover sources of digital resources (templates, fonts,
etc.) for formatting, and will walk through a project using Photoshop
Elements 10 for editing; students will learn how to format the pages
for printing using Shutterfly.

Class will feature multimedia including a series of short screencasts
with voice narration, powerpoint instructions and text notes for
reference. We will use the FORUM for questions and answers and we will
encourage students to post their digital pages (.jpg files) for review
and comment.

*Please* read the full course description and the software requirements
at www.jewishgen.org/education; there are no set times for this
course as our students are >from around the world; enroll via our secure
online enrollment system.

Please address all questions to JewishGen-Education@lyris.jewishgen.org

Phyllis Kramer
VP, Education: www.JewishGen.org/education
NYC and Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.


Danzig/Gedansk SIG #Danzig #Gdansk #Germany #Poland New JewishGen Course: Create Family History Pages #danzig #gdansk #germany #poland

Phyllis Kramer
 

Do you have a lot of genealogical family material to share and want to
organize it into a set of images, but don't know how? Marlis Humphrey
will explain and demonstrate how to create image rich family history
pages for your family.

Students will learn how to layout, design, and edit a quality family
history page set for two ancestors,that can be broadened at a later
time. You will learn to include documents like census, naturalization
and photographs of your family, heirlooms and memorabilia .

Students will discover sources of digital resources (templates, fonts,
etc.) for formatting, and will walk through a project using Photoshop
Elements 10 for editing; students will learn how to format the pages
for printing using Shutterfly.

Class will feature multimedia including a series of short screencasts
with voice narration, powerpoint instructions and text notes for
reference. We will use the FORUM for questions and answers and we will
encourage students to post their digital pages (.jpg files) for review
and comment.

*Please* read the full course description and the software requirements
at www.jewishgen.org/education; there are no set times for this
course as our students are >from around the world; enroll via our secure
online enrollment system.

Please address all questions to JewishGen-Education@lyris.jewishgen.org

Phyllis Kramer
VP, Education: www.JewishGen.org/education
NYC and Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.


Scandinavia SIG #Scandinavia New JewishGen Course: Create Family History Pages #scandinavia

Phyllis Kramer
 

Do you have a lot of genealogical family material to share and want to
organize it into a set of images, but don't know how? Marlis Humphrey
will explain and demonstrate how to create image rich family history
pages for your family.

Students will learn how to layout, design, and edit a quality family
history page set for two ancestors,that can be broadened at a later
time. You will learn to include documents like census, naturalization
and photographs of your family, heirlooms and memorabilia .

Students will discover sources of digital resources (templates, fonts,
etc.) for formatting, and will walk through a project using Photoshop
Elements 10 for editing; students will learn how to format the pages
for printing using Shutterfly.

Class will feature multimedia including a series of short screencasts
with voice narration, powerpoint instructions and text notes for
reference. We will use the FORUM for questions and answers and we will
encourage students to post their digital pages (.jpg files) for review
and comment.

*Please* read the full course description and the software requirements
at www.jewishgen.org/education; there are no set times for this
course as our students are >from around the world; enroll via our secure
online enrollment system.

Please address all questions to JewishGen-Education@lyris.jewishgen.org

Phyllis Kramer
VP, Education: www.JewishGen.org/education
NYC and Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.


Help with translations from Hebrew, German, and Russian & a postmark from Romania #romania

epk13@...
 

The travel diary Lilian Spiwak, aged 16, kept when her father, Abram, took her to
visit his family in Romania has just been found. As I work with it, I'm finding
pages I cannot decipher on my own. I would be very grateful for help with
translations and interpretations of several pages of the diary inscribed by
relatives and friends. There is also an envelope sent to Lil â?? her uncle,
Leizer Vollman, in Capresti, which appears to have take two months to arrive.

Thank you for your help.


Translation >from the Hebrew:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21302

Translation >from German:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21303

Translation, interpretation of Russian names and address:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21305

Help deciphering postmarks for letter sent to Capresti, Romania, in August 1929:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21306

Translation of flamboyant signature or message that appears to be in Russian:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21307



Patricia Klindienst

Guilford, CT USA

SPIWAK /SPIVAK of Orgeyev & Kishinev, Bessarabia; Mendoza, Argentina; and Queens.
SCHAPOSCHNIK / ZAPOSNEK of Orgeyev, Kishinev, Elisavetgrad, or Mendoza, Argentina;
and their related names, SHAPIN, SHAPIRO of Mendoza, Argentina, Chile, Canada,
and the US.
SCHOCHETMAN of Odessa (who became SCHACHT in the US).
MILSTEIN of Orgeyev & Kishinev.
WOLMAN/VOLLMAN of Orgeyev, Kishinev, Capresti.
TSAREVKAN/CIRIFCAN/SARAFCONN of Orgeyev, Teleneshti, Argentina, Uruguay,
becoming COHEN in the US.
BELINKSY of Odessa and Philadelphia.
KALIK of Orgeyev, Kishinev, and Mendoza, Argentina.
BURD/BORD of Chukelteny, Orgeyev, and Kishinev, Bessarabia.
LICHT/LEHT of Briceva and Capresti.
GOLDENBERG of Kishinev.


Romania SIG #Romania Help with translations from Hebrew, German, and Russian & a postmark from Romania #romania

epk13@...
 

The travel diary Lilian Spiwak, aged 16, kept when her father, Abram, took her to
visit his family in Romania has just been found. As I work with it, I'm finding
pages I cannot decipher on my own. I would be very grateful for help with
translations and interpretations of several pages of the diary inscribed by
relatives and friends. There is also an envelope sent to Lil â?? her uncle,
Leizer Vollman, in Capresti, which appears to have take two months to arrive.

Thank you for your help.


Translation >from the Hebrew:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21302

Translation >from German:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21303

Translation, interpretation of Russian names and address:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21305

Help deciphering postmarks for letter sent to Capresti, Romania, in August 1929:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21306

Translation of flamboyant signature or message that appears to be in Russian:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21307



Patricia Klindienst

Guilford, CT USA

SPIWAK /SPIVAK of Orgeyev & Kishinev, Bessarabia; Mendoza, Argentina; and Queens.
SCHAPOSCHNIK / ZAPOSNEK of Orgeyev, Kishinev, Elisavetgrad, or Mendoza, Argentina;
and their related names, SHAPIN, SHAPIRO of Mendoza, Argentina, Chile, Canada,
and the US.
SCHOCHETMAN of Odessa (who became SCHACHT in the US).
MILSTEIN of Orgeyev & Kishinev.
WOLMAN/VOLLMAN of Orgeyev, Kishinev, Capresti.
TSAREVKAN/CIRIFCAN/SARAFCONN of Orgeyev, Teleneshti, Argentina, Uruguay,
becoming COHEN in the US.
BELINKSY of Odessa and Philadelphia.
KALIK of Orgeyev, Kishinev, and Mendoza, Argentina.
BURD/BORD of Chukelteny, Orgeyev, and Kishinev, Bessarabia.
LICHT/LEHT of Briceva and Capresti.
GOLDENBERG of Kishinev.


Calendar changes affecting dates... #belarus

Martha Forsyth
 

I've found that not everyone knows about the calendar changes >from the
Julian calendar to the Gregorian. I am FAR >from an expert myself, but I
do know that dates in Eastern Europe and the Russian Empire can be "off"
because the Gregorian calendar, adopted in most of the rest of Europe in
the late 1500's, was not adopted there until 1918! By that time there
was a discrepancy of about 14 days between the calendars. Check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_year_(calendar), specifically
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_year_%28calendar%29#From_Julian_to_Gregorian.

Steve Morse's http://stevemorse.org/jcal/julian.html will enable you to
convert dates >from Julian to Gregorian and vice versa. For example, NOW
I'm beginning to realize why my grandfather (born "25 Dec 1877" in
Gomel, sometimes has his birth date shown as 1878 - if that original
date was given by the Julian calendar, the corresponding Gregorian
calendar date was 6 Jan 1878!

Now, how you can tell which calendar was being used.....is anybody's
guess. my own hunch being that a person's memory and any written records
would be using the Julian calendar - but -

All I want to do is to alert you to the discrepancy, and share a way to
interpret it.

Martha (Schecter) Forsyth
Newton, MA


Belarus SIG #Belarus Calendar changes affecting dates... #belarus

Martha Forsyth
 

I've found that not everyone knows about the calendar changes >from the
Julian calendar to the Gregorian. I am FAR >from an expert myself, but I
do know that dates in Eastern Europe and the Russian Empire can be "off"
because the Gregorian calendar, adopted in most of the rest of Europe in
the late 1500's, was not adopted there until 1918! By that time there
was a discrepancy of about 14 days between the calendars. Check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_year_(calendar), specifically
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_year_%28calendar%29#From_Julian_to_Gregorian.

Steve Morse's http://stevemorse.org/jcal/julian.html will enable you to
convert dates >from Julian to Gregorian and vice versa. For example, NOW
I'm beginning to realize why my grandfather (born "25 Dec 1877" in
Gomel, sometimes has his birth date shown as 1878 - if that original
date was given by the Julian calendar, the corresponding Gregorian
calendar date was 6 Jan 1878!

Now, how you can tell which calendar was being used.....is anybody's
guess. my own hunch being that a person's memory and any written records
would be using the Julian calendar - but -

All I want to do is to alert you to the discrepancy, and share a way to
interpret it.

Martha (Schecter) Forsyth
Newton, MA


Photo Identification/Viewmate #belarus

aperry35@...
 

Greetings,

I have uploaded to Viewmate the only photo I have of my maternal great
grandmother, Anna Strongin Friedland, with her oldest daughter, Naomi and
Naomi's son, name unknown. Anna was probably born in Minsk about 1885, but
relocated to Ekaterinaslav. I have successfully traced all of my maternal
grandmother's siblings and their families. However, I have little information
about my grandmother's oldest sister, Naomi, the first sibling to emmigrate to
the US in the early 1900s. Naomi's passage was paid for by her fiance, whom she
married. The photo was likely taken at my great uncle's chicken farm in New
Jersey circa 1922,

http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=21299

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Alix Perry
Palm Coast, Florida

Minsk: STRONGIN
Ekaterinaslav: FRIEDLAND
Telsiai: LICHT
Shklov: FINKELSTEIN.

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately


Belarus SIG #Belarus Photo Identification/Viewmate #belarus

aperry35@...
 

Greetings,

I have uploaded to Viewmate the only photo I have of my maternal great
grandmother, Anna Strongin Friedland, with her oldest daughter, Naomi and
Naomi's son, name unknown. Anna was probably born in Minsk about 1885, but
relocated to Ekaterinaslav. I have successfully traced all of my maternal
grandmother's siblings and their families. However, I have little information
about my grandmother's oldest sister, Naomi, the first sibling to emmigrate to
the US in the early 1900s. Naomi's passage was paid for by her fiance, whom she
married. The photo was likely taken at my great uncle's chicken farm in New
Jersey circa 1922,

http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=21299

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Alix Perry
Palm Coast, Florida

Minsk: STRONGIN
Ekaterinaslav: FRIEDLAND
Telsiai: LICHT
Shklov: FINKELSTEIN.

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately


information about Jacob KOGAN,Rabbi and Dayan in Kaminka,Ukraine #general

Benjamin Cohen <orabenco@...>
 

Greetings!

I am seeking information about my great grandfather who resided in the town
of Kaminka, presently in the Ukraine.

I know that he was a Rabbi, Dayan and Shoichet in Kaminka. One of his sons,
my grandfather, became anti religious and left the house to live with relatives
in Odessa, and later joined the Tsarist army. He never talked about his parents
or about brothers or sisters. My grandfather settled after his release from
the army in Sebastopol, and after the Bolshevik revolution he, his wife Sonia,
and their five children left for Palestine.

My grandfather's name was Baruch {Boris} Kalman KOGAN, he was born in
Kaminka on or about 1870, and died in Israel in 1943.

I am seeking information about his father, the Rabbi, and the roots of the
family.

I have tried all the available resources in Israel.

Thank you to all who can help in securing the information.

Benjamin Cohen


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen information about Jacob KOGAN,Rabbi and Dayan in Kaminka,Ukraine #general

Benjamin Cohen <orabenco@...>
 

Greetings!

I am seeking information about my great grandfather who resided in the town
of Kaminka, presently in the Ukraine.

I know that he was a Rabbi, Dayan and Shoichet in Kaminka. One of his sons,
my grandfather, became anti religious and left the house to live with relatives
in Odessa, and later joined the Tsarist army. He never talked about his parents
or about brothers or sisters. My grandfather settled after his release from
the army in Sebastopol, and after the Bolshevik revolution he, his wife Sonia,
and their five children left for Palestine.

My grandfather's name was Baruch {Boris} Kalman KOGAN, he was born in
Kaminka on or about 1870, and died in Israel in 1943.

I am seeking information about his father, the Rabbi, and the roots of the
family.

I have tried all the available resources in Israel.

Thank you to all who can help in securing the information.

Benjamin Cohen


Re: searching for name in Ellis Island Website #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

The commentary on this topic is generally true and suggestions are valid,
but the paragraph quoted below contains a significant error. The passenger
lists *were not* created by immigration officials unfamiliar with ethnic
names. They were created by the ships crew, officers who were reasonably
well traveled and in the case of a ship like the Vaterland, people who were
familiar at least with German and perhaps also French. Many of them would
have made numerous Atlantic crossings and become familiar with the common
range of names. So American style language ignorance in writing down the
names would have been less important than implied by Don's comments.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@Rochester.rr.com

"Don Solomon" <dsolomon@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

The Ellis Island site is notorious for names being misspelled.
Volunteers not familiar with 19th century handwriting and ethnic
names often guessed, and guessed wrong. Even if the volunteers got
it right, immigration officials even less familiar with ethnic names
often mistranscribed the immigrant's vocalization of his name.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: searching for name in Ellis Island Website #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

The commentary on this topic is generally true and suggestions are valid,
but the paragraph quoted below contains a significant error. The passenger
lists *were not* created by immigration officials unfamiliar with ethnic
names. They were created by the ships crew, officers who were reasonably
well traveled and in the case of a ship like the Vaterland, people who were
familiar at least with German and perhaps also French. Many of them would
have made numerous Atlantic crossings and become familiar with the common
range of names. So American style language ignorance in writing down the
names would have been less important than implied by Don's comments.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@Rochester.rr.com

"Don Solomon" <dsolomon@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message

The Ellis Island site is notorious for names being misspelled.
Volunteers not familiar with 19th century handwriting and ethnic
names often guessed, and guessed wrong. Even if the volunteers got
it right, immigration officials even less familiar with ethnic names
often mistranscribed the immigrant's vocalization of his name.


Viewmate Posting - Polish Translation #general

Howard Rosen <HowardsFishing@...>
 

Posted on ViewMate, Nos. VM 21321 through VM 21324, are the Ostrow
Mazowiecka birth records of four ROJZEN children born in the same time frame
and town as my grandfather Nochim Rojzen.

I would appreciate translations including names, relationships, dates,
places, any interesting facts, etc. Your help will be greatly appreciated,
and should expand my family tree!

Thank you,
Howard Rosen
Los Angeles

The direct URLs of the images are
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21321
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21322
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21323
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21324

Please reply privately


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Viewmate Posting - Polish Translation #general

Howard Rosen <HowardsFishing@...>
 

Posted on ViewMate, Nos. VM 21321 through VM 21324, are the Ostrow
Mazowiecka birth records of four ROJZEN children born in the same time frame
and town as my grandfather Nochim Rojzen.

I would appreciate translations including names, relationships, dates,
places, any interesting facts, etc. Your help will be greatly appreciated,
and should expand my family tree!

Thank you,
Howard Rosen
Los Angeles

The direct URLs of the images are
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21321
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21322
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21323
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21324

Please reply privately

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