Date   

KAHAN fm Kabolapatak #hungary

viviankahn@...
 

I recently learned that my great-great-grandparents were Josef Izsak =
KAHAN and Czipre DINES >from Kabola Patak, a suburb of Sziget, Maramaros, =
now known as Iapa, Romania. I found Joszip Jeizik (no surname) in =
Jewish Census records for Kabola Csarda in 1833-34. My =
great-grandfather Berisch KAHAN was born in Kabola Patak in 1832 and =
died in Sziget in Nov. 1898. He married Dvoyra JOSZIPOVITS abt 1859 and =
they named their first child, born in Jul 1860, Josef Iczik. Any leads =
on this branch of the very large KAHAN family >from Sziget will be =
appreciated. =20

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary KAHAN fm Kabolapatak #hungary

viviankahn@...
 

I recently learned that my great-great-grandparents were Josef Izsak =
KAHAN and Czipre DINES >from Kabola Patak, a suburb of Sziget, Maramaros, =
now known as Iapa, Romania. I found Joszip Jeizik (no surname) in =
Jewish Census records for Kabola Csarda in 1833-34. My =
great-grandfather Berisch KAHAN was born in Kabola Patak in 1832 and =
died in Sziget in Nov. 1898. He married Dvoyra JOSZIPOVITS abt 1859 and =
they named their first child, born in Jul 1860, Josef Iczik. Any leads =
on this branch of the very large KAHAN family >from Sziget will be =
appreciated. =20

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA


RESEARCHING ENGEL #hungary

ruebin7@...
 

Hi All.
I am trying to find family of my GREAT GREAT AUNT , NETTI GOLD born in 1840
in GYOR, she MARRIED KAROLY ENGEL and they had 10 children.

I have found records a bit scarse. I have found however on Jewish Gen, that
a Daughter Gizella, married a Daniel Deutsch , in Gyor on 25-Aug-1889.

If anyone has a connection to the 10 "ENGEL" Children I would like very much
to hear >from you.
Researching >from the GYOR /PAPA area ..GOLD, STRASSER, ENGEL, MAYER,
BREUER , SCHISCHA , KRACKAUER

Thanks
Regards
Ron Bower ( Bauer)
Melbourne AUSTRALIA

Moderator: Please contact Ron off-list if you have information.


Hungary SIG #Hungary RESEARCHING ENGEL #hungary

ruebin7@...
 

Hi All.
I am trying to find family of my GREAT GREAT AUNT , NETTI GOLD born in 1840
in GYOR, she MARRIED KAROLY ENGEL and they had 10 children.

I have found records a bit scarse. I have found however on Jewish Gen, that
a Daughter Gizella, married a Daniel Deutsch , in Gyor on 25-Aug-1889.

If anyone has a connection to the 10 "ENGEL" Children I would like very much
to hear >from you.
Researching >from the GYOR /PAPA area ..GOLD, STRASSER, ENGEL, MAYER,
BREUER , SCHISCHA , KRACKAUER

Thanks
Regards
Ron Bower ( Bauer)
Melbourne AUSTRALIA

Moderator: Please contact Ron off-list if you have information.


Adoption dates for Jewish surnames #hungary

dan.haas@...
 

In response to Alex Miller's post, I have looked at the 1720 census search indicated for a few towns and villages in Poszony and in Trencsen where I have much more familiarity.  Yes, they all have surnames, but no, the vast majority of these names are not Jewish. 

Most names listed are Hungarian, Slavonic, Polish, German and Latin but the only one I found which is unmistakeably Jewish is JOSEPHUS JUDAEUS, Latin for 'Joseph the Jew'. I have done some transcribing of Conscriptio Judaeorum data (Jewish Tolerance Tax records) >from 1771-3 and searched 1795 data and the Jewish names in these are very different >from the names in this 1720 data.  They are very different groups of people.

The headings in this 1720 record seem to refer to 'Taxpayers' and 'Cottagers'.  I am no expert on Hungarian financial history but I guess that this 1720 record is of taxpayers who had some relationship to their land that made them liable for tax on it.  They are not the land owners as such as there is a distinct absence of aristocratic titles and Hungary had a basically feudal land ownership system whereby the numerous Counts and Dukes owned all the land and at this time, did not pay tax on it.  Everyone else had to rent land if they could afford it (this group) or merely work the land for others (many as serfs who were tied to the land and could not leave without buying their freedom).  Jews had to pay much higher taxes which were collected separately through the Conscriptio Judaeorum at different dates.

So I do not think this data provides any evidence for widespread use of Jewish surnames in 1720.  I have no doubt that prior to the 1781-2 Edict of Toleration issued by Emperor Joseph II, the vast majority of Jews stuck to traditional patronyms, which change at every generation.  Hence I have found several HAAS ancestors in the 1795 CJ record for Varin, Trencsen megye, but in the 1771-3 data there are very few surnames of any sort. There are many second names that end in 'OVITS' meaning 'son of' but they are patronyms, not permanent surnames.

I hope this helps

Dan Haas
Winchester GB
Researching HAAS, FEUERMANN, KLEIN, LINKS, MEISEL in Trencsen & Turocz megye


Hungary SIG #Hungary Adoption dates for Jewish surnames #hungary

dan.haas@...
 

In response to Alex Miller's post, I have looked at the 1720 census search indicated for a few towns and villages in Poszony and in Trencsen where I have much more familiarity.  Yes, they all have surnames, but no, the vast majority of these names are not Jewish. 

Most names listed are Hungarian, Slavonic, Polish, German and Latin but the only one I found which is unmistakeably Jewish is JOSEPHUS JUDAEUS, Latin for 'Joseph the Jew'. I have done some transcribing of Conscriptio Judaeorum data (Jewish Tolerance Tax records) >from 1771-3 and searched 1795 data and the Jewish names in these are very different >from the names in this 1720 data.  They are very different groups of people.

The headings in this 1720 record seem to refer to 'Taxpayers' and 'Cottagers'.  I am no expert on Hungarian financial history but I guess that this 1720 record is of taxpayers who had some relationship to their land that made them liable for tax on it.  They are not the land owners as such as there is a distinct absence of aristocratic titles and Hungary had a basically feudal land ownership system whereby the numerous Counts and Dukes owned all the land and at this time, did not pay tax on it.  Everyone else had to rent land if they could afford it (this group) or merely work the land for others (many as serfs who were tied to the land and could not leave without buying their freedom).  Jews had to pay much higher taxes which were collected separately through the Conscriptio Judaeorum at different dates.

So I do not think this data provides any evidence for widespread use of Jewish surnames in 1720.  I have no doubt that prior to the 1781-2 Edict of Toleration issued by Emperor Joseph II, the vast majority of Jews stuck to traditional patronyms, which change at every generation.  Hence I have found several HAAS ancestors in the 1795 CJ record for Varin, Trencsen megye, but in the 1771-3 data there are very few surnames of any sort. There are many second names that end in 'OVITS' meaning 'son of' but they are patronyms, not permanent surnames.

I hope this helps

Dan Haas
Winchester GB
Researching HAAS, FEUERMANN, KLEIN, LINKS, MEISEL in Trencsen & Turocz megye


ViewMate thank you to all responders #hungary

bounce-2342662-772961@...
 

The ViewMate team has asked me to send out this thank you note.

Dick Plotz
Manager of Mailing Lists
JewishGen, Inc.

+++
Collaborative spirit reigns: We give thanks to the many
JewishGen-ViewMate volunteers who have offered translations and
commentary to help unpuzzle our past. Thanks to all for joining us in
this collaborative spirit. We really do appreciate your assistance.

ViewMate Team:
Sam Eneman
Bernard Kouchel
Gary Sandler


Hungary SIG #Hungary ViewMate thank you to all responders #hungary

bounce-2342662-772961@...
 

The ViewMate team has asked me to send out this thank you note.

Dick Plotz
Manager of Mailing Lists
JewishGen, Inc.

+++
Collaborative spirit reigns: We give thanks to the many
JewishGen-ViewMate volunteers who have offered translations and
commentary to help unpuzzle our past. Thanks to all for joining us in
this collaborative spirit. We really do appreciate your assistance.

ViewMate Team:
Sam Eneman
Bernard Kouchel
Gary Sandler


Re: Last names prior to 1785 #hungary

geeklet@...
 

This is a really fascinating find, Alex! Thanks for pointing it out! I
was delighted to easily find two of my ancestral towns and I'm sure many
others will as well.

I'm curious if anyone can translate any of it though. Particularly the
columns, but also at the end of each town where they had two rows which
look something like 'Summa Aro' and 'Ex Reufrone'. Could those be an
enumeration of serfs?

Any insight into these welcome.


Thanks again

------------------------------------------------------------------------

alex miller <mailto:alexpmiller@...>
December 22, 2011 6:26 PM


For a point of interest in the 'last name adoption' debate:

The following link is a Hungarian census >from 1720 in Pozsony, home of
many of the Jews who later wandered into other areas of Hungary.

As a point of interest every census participant appears with a last name.

http://193.224.149.7/adatbazisokol/adatbazis/52

Alex Miller


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Last names prior to 1785 #hungary

geeklet@...
 

This is a really fascinating find, Alex! Thanks for pointing it out! I
was delighted to easily find two of my ancestral towns and I'm sure many
others will as well.

I'm curious if anyone can translate any of it though. Particularly the
columns, but also at the end of each town where they had two rows which
look something like 'Summa Aro' and 'Ex Reufrone'. Could those be an
enumeration of serfs?

Any insight into these welcome.


Thanks again

------------------------------------------------------------------------

alex miller <mailto:alexpmiller@...>
December 22, 2011 6:26 PM


For a point of interest in the 'last name adoption' debate:

The following link is a Hungarian census >from 1720 in Pozsony, home of
many of the Jews who later wandered into other areas of Hungary.

As a point of interest every census participant appears with a last name.

http://193.224.149.7/adatbazisokol/adatbazis/52

Alex Miller


UK Aliens Restriction Act #germany

Hanna Grossman <hannakg@...>
 

Judith Berlowitz wrote about UK immigrants >from Germany, in a list for
1922, who had their German citizenship annulled by the Nazis
after their departure. That makes the date of the list sound wrong.

As to the effect on the emigrants whose German citizenship was
annulled, based on the experience of myself and my family, it meant
that we were treated as stateless.

Hanna Grossman, Cornwall, CT hannakg@...


German SIG #Germany UK Aliens Restriction Act #germany

Hanna Grossman <hannakg@...>
 

Judith Berlowitz wrote about UK immigrants >from Germany, in a list for
1922, who had their German citizenship annulled by the Nazis
after their departure. That makes the date of the list sound wrong.

As to the effect on the emigrants whose German citizenship was
annulled, based on the experience of myself and my family, it meant
that we were treated as stateless.

Hanna Grossman, Cornwall, CT hannakg@...


Handwritten family tree interpretation request #romania

yagury@...
 

Hi,
I've posted a handwritten family tree on ViewMate -
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21104 .
This is an annotated family tree, holding the original handwritten
information, as well as my understanding of names. This family lived in
Radautz Bukovina in the 2nd half of the 19th century. Some of the additional
information is based on other documents.
Please help:
1. Confirm / correct my understandings
2. Provide your view about questionable entries
Please respond via Viewmate, or directly to me
Many thanks in advance
Yossi Yagur - Israel


Romania SIG #Romania Handwritten family tree interpretation request #romania

yagury@...
 

Hi,
I've posted a handwritten family tree on ViewMate -
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=21104 .
This is an annotated family tree, holding the original handwritten
information, as well as my understanding of names. This family lived in
Radautz Bukovina in the 2nd half of the 19th century. Some of the additional
information is based on other documents.
Please help:
1. Confirm / correct my understandings
2. Provide your view about questionable entries
Please respond via Viewmate, or directly to me
Many thanks in advance
Yossi Yagur - Israel


Re: SUNDAY TIMES - May 13, 1945 #southafrica

Adrian Freedman
 

To SA SIG
this information supplied by Miriam Margoyles is exciting!
Is there a site available where anyone can peruse the South African
papers and extract the same information Miriam Margolyes did?
Perhaps she can assist with this
Adrian Freedman

On 22 December 2011 04:28, Miriam Margolyes <yarrawa@...> wrote:

Dear Genners,


The South African newspaper, SUNDAY TIMES of May 13, 1945 contained the
following.
I made the selection of Jewish names; there were, of course, many other
names.
It's in 2 parts; this is Part 1.

[etc.]

Miriam Margolyes
Jaipur, India

searching: SANDMAN, SANDEMAN, MICHEL,NOVICK


ViewMate thank you to all responders #southafrica

Dick Plotz <Dick@...>
 

The ViewMate team has asked me to send out this thank you note.

Dick Plotz
Manager of Mailing Lists
JewishGen, Inc.

+++
Collaborative spirit reigns: We give thanks to the many
JewishGen-ViewMate volunteers who have offered translations and
commentary to help unpuzzle our past. Thanks to all for joining us in
this collaborative spirit. We really do appreciate your assistance.

ViewMate Team:
Sam Eneman
Bernard Kouchel
Gary Sandler


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: SUNDAY TIMES - May 13, 1945 #southafrica

Adrian Freedman
 

To SA SIG
this information supplied by Miriam Margoyles is exciting!
Is there a site available where anyone can peruse the South African
papers and extract the same information Miriam Margolyes did?
Perhaps she can assist with this
Adrian Freedman

On 22 December 2011 04:28, Miriam Margolyes <yarrawa@...> wrote:

Dear Genners,


The South African newspaper, SUNDAY TIMES of May 13, 1945 contained the
following.
I made the selection of Jewish names; there were, of course, many other
names.
It's in 2 parts; this is Part 1.

[etc.]

Miriam Margolyes
Jaipur, India

searching: SANDMAN, SANDEMAN, MICHEL,NOVICK


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica ViewMate thank you to all responders #southafrica

Dick Plotz <Dick@...>
 

The ViewMate team has asked me to send out this thank you note.

Dick Plotz
Manager of Mailing Lists
JewishGen, Inc.

+++
Collaborative spirit reigns: We give thanks to the many
JewishGen-ViewMate volunteers who have offered translations and
commentary to help unpuzzle our past. Thanks to all for joining us in
this collaborative spirit. We really do appreciate your assistance.

ViewMate Team:
Sam Eneman
Bernard Kouchel
Gary Sandler


descendants of David Litwak #poland

Henryk Gruder <henrygruder@...>
 

Hi I am looking for any information regarding descendants of David Litwak,
born about 1852, who arrived to Ellis Island in June 1895, on the board of
ship Veendam, or / and Chaja Litwak (spelling can differ), born around 1876,
who arrived the time, same ship.

Henryk Gruder,
Ottawa, Canada

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately with family information.
Suggestions for research methods or resources may be shared with
the list.


JRI Poland #Poland descendants of David Litwak #poland

Henryk Gruder <henrygruder@...>
 

Hi I am looking for any information regarding descendants of David Litwak,
born about 1852, who arrived to Ellis Island in June 1895, on the board of
ship Veendam, or / and Chaja Litwak (spelling can differ), born around 1876,
who arrived the time, same ship.

Henryk Gruder,
Ottawa, Canada

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately with family information.
Suggestions for research methods or resources may be shared with
the list.

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