Re: Reply to Re: Maiming to Avoid the Russian Draft?


Sorry, Fred, but your post is inaccurate. 25 years was the length of service only until 1834. It was 6 years in the late 1800's and 3 years in the early 1900's. Jews tried to avoid the service because the army was one of the most anti-Semitic institutions in Russia. (Come to think of it: what was the least anti-Semitic institution in Russia?.)

Re: Please put surnames in the subject line


Thank you, Sharon and Peter,

Yes, please list your full name and location but also a contact info in the body of the message. If there is a need to write a direct message, a responder should not waste his time figuring out how to do it. There is no benefit in hiding.

Re: Maiming to Avoid the Russian Draft?

Art Hoffman <arthh@...>

Family folklore is that my Uncle Morris (Goichmann) Hoffman was drafted into the Czar's army in 1905 and was on a train to the far east when the Russo-Japan war ended.  He returned to his family in Golovanevsk and was discharged.  My Grandfather Aron then obtained an exit passport for the family (6 children), a copy of which I still have. The entire family emigrated to America in 1906.  I suppose timing is everything, then and now.  Maiming wasn't necessary for Uncle Morris.

Arthur Hoffman
Boynton Beach, FL USA

Researching HOFFMAN, GOICHMANN, GOYKHMANN, WHITE, Golovanevsk, Annopol  

Need a researcher to find the Birth Record in Chortkiv

Stephen Denker <spdenker@...>

I want to hire a researcher to find the Birth Record for my grandfather Asriel Billman (or Denker) who was born September 13, 1870 in Chortkiv. His father was Shraga Feivel. His mother was Chane Sluwe Geller.

Stephen Denker

Brookline, MA

Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Jill Whitehead

The most common way for immigrants to reach the USA in the 1860's to 1880's was for them to arrive in Hull on the North Sea Coast and travel overland by train to Liverpool to go onwards to the USA. There is a memorial at Hull Railway station to this movement of people and it is much documented by historians, especially at the University of Hull which has a specialist maritime history dept, as does Liverpool University.   In 2008, my genetic cousin Howard Wolinsky of Chicago made a TV programme for the BBC in the Coast series, which showed how his ancestor made the same journey from Libau in Latvia, to a German port, thence to Hull and Liverpool.  In his case, his ancestor travelled in the early 1890's, and made the very last journey for some months, as his German port was closed due to a Cholera outbreak. My ancestors also made this journey in part, likely from Konigsberg in the 1860's and 1870's, as they came from Suwalki Lomza on the borders with Konigsberg (East Prussia). My Guttenberg family from Raigrod made this journey in c1865 on a  sailing ship to Hull,  and they remained in Hull, although the family story is that they were due to go onto USA but were too sea sick to go on, although others found their tickets would not take them any further or they were robbed on arrival in Hull. Sailing ships were then replaced by steam ships, and faster steam ships, when the new deep water port was opened at nearby Grimsby (my Guttenberg Hull family moved to Grimsby and then Sheffield) . My great grandmother's much younger sister followed her to Hull 20 years after she had arrived, but tragedy awaited. Her teenage son Jacob used to get tips at Hull Docks  from newly arrived immigrants for showing them where they should go to get the train or find accommodation. Alas on one day he had an accident, and fell into the deep sea harbour at Hull and drowned. But check out Hull and Liverpool Universities for their info on Jewish immigration by sea, both cross Baltic and cross Atlantic. Note there is very little in the way of passenger documentation from the Baltic to Hull - but Hull Uni has info on the boats and ship lines that plied this trade, and the ports they used - the majority of ships manifests are cross Atlantic.

Buying false papers


While doing a serious study of the "no involuntary name-changes on immigration" meme, I reviewed the Congressional debate leading up to the passage of the Naturalization Act of 1906 (HR 15442).  One of the reasons for this act was the perception that there was an organized business selling "copies" of documents necessary to immigrate to the United States that involved at least some Immigration personnel. Documents sold included those establishing that a person, who might never have been to America, was a citizen, and thus eligible to return regardless of whether he met entrance requirements established beginning with the Immigration Act of 1882.  People who bought these documents obviously had to pose as the person in whose name they initially had been issued; whether they subsequently used that name, after getting into America, is a key issue in the "no involuntary name-changes on immigration" meme.

In passing, let me mention that none of the claims made against the involuntary name-changes narratives stands up to scrutiny and that I have identified a mechanism that would lead immigrants to believe their name(s) had been changed involuntarily by the immigration process.  Needless-to-say, this conclusion has been met with stiff resistance from the genealogical establishment.

Re: Please put surnames in the subject line

Dahn Cukier

If you are looking only for specific surnames, there is a site on
the Jewishgen website for this.

Anyway, I disagree with your suggestion. I do not care who
is being searched, all overheard conversations can be


When you start to read readin,
how do you know the fellow that
wrote the readin,
wrote the readin right?

Festus Hagen
Long Branch Saloon
Dodge City, Kansas

On Sunday, January 19, 2020, 12:32:13 AM GMT+2, sharon yampell <genealogicalgenie@...> wrote:

The problem with your post is you didn’t sign it or add your location!


Sharon F. Yampell

Voorhees, NJ USA


From: jbonline1111@...
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2020 11:15 AM
To: main@...
Subject: [] Please put surnames in the subject line


I've noticed that since this new format has become available, that the majority of posts do not list surnames in the subject line and sometimes not even in the body of posts.  When fellow contributors see surnames right away, they can quickly determine whether they can be helpful to you.  Further, many will take the time to research for you if they have the names. 

Use tags such as #Belarus as supplements.  For example, today I looked at a post with that tag because my family came from that area. However, if the surnames had been posted, I would have known that I was unable to help.   

Thanks to all who work to make this discussion group helpful to everyone.


Re: Once upon a time there was a moderator for this group.....

Dahn Cukier


I have been on the mailing list for a number of years - I do not recall
how many, but over 5, most likely longer.

I have never found the family names in the signature to be helpful
or meaningful. I do have over 150k "relatives" on the
Ancestry DNA matches, I do find that somewhat helpful, but only
the first 300-400 matches.

With more and more awareness of data mining, I still see no reason to provide
more information via e-mails than necessary.

CUKIER, BRIF, LISABETZKI, SKLAVIR and their various spellings and abbreviated
forms. There are at least 4, 2, 5(and various shortenings), 3 of each of these that
I actually know of.

When you start to read readin,
how do you know the fellow that
wrote the readin,
wrote the readin right?

Festus Hagen
Long Branch Saloon
Dodge City, Kansas

On Saturday, January 18, 2020, 10:49:54 PM GMT+2, Wayne S Marcus <wsmarcus@...> wrote:

JewishGen got to be a important genealogy site by having a limited but strongly encouraged set of rules for the discussion group. Rule such as surname capitalization and informative titles, certainly aided readership growth and retention. These rules certainly are as significant to group success as the 8 noted in this thread. Without group success there will be nothing to moderate.
Wayne Marcus SDJGS
Irvine, CA


Re: Har Nebo Cemetary, Phila

Mitchell Collier

I've heard that the Har Nebo office is helpful and will take a photo of a grave upon request.
Maybe there is a minor fee involved.

(215) 535-1530

Re: Searching descendants of Simcha SCHECHTER, (Brooklyn NY early 1900’s)

Ina Getzoff

My late mother-in-laws maiden name was Schechter and as you said it is a common name so it is very difficult to find. This Schechter family came as far as I know from Austria and emigrated in the late 1890's and lived in what became known as the Crown Height section of Brooklyn. The patriarch of the family was Selig Schechter and his wife's name was Annie. 

All this being said do you happen to even know where in Brooklyn your Schechter family lived. Other than finding information on my husband's Schechter great grandparents had two children-Max who married Bertha Spindel and Cecile who married Max Rosenbloom I don't really know much else. Does this help and can you provide me with whatever you might know.

Ina Getzoff
Delray Beach, Fla
Secretary, JGS Palm Beach County, Fla.

Re: Pale of Settlement

Mark Jacobson

The Pale of Settlement was not Russian Poland. The Pale of Settlement was the area of the Russian Empire acquired from the Kingdom of Poland between the 1770s and 1790s that had a Jewish population. The designation allowed Jews to continue to live there but not move into other parts of Russia that had no Jews. The Pale includes much of the modern Ukraine (Kiev was the border), Lithuania, and Belarus. Russian Poland was also called Congress Poland and was not part of the Pale of Settlement, it was the semi-autonomous area of territory taken from Poland that, at least until uprisings in the 1860s, had some political and legal difference from the rest. I'm not aware that Jews living in the Pale would call it anything, they would be aware of where they lived.

Mark Jacobson
Past President, JGSPBCI
Gesher Galicia Board member
JRI-Poland Town Leader Boryslaw and Drohobycz
Boca Raton, FL

DOGULOV/DOVGALEVSKY - Tripolye/Vasilkov/Kiev Ukraine;
COHEN/KANA/KAHAN - Tripolye, Ukraine;
JACOBSON - Polotsk/Lepel, Belarus; KOBLENTZ - Polotsk, Belarus;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia; ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
TUCHFELD - Rzeszow/Stryj/Lvov, Galicia; GOLDSTEIN - Ranizow, Galicia

On Saturday, January 18, 2020, 09:02:01 PM EST, Josephine Rosenblum <jorose@...> wrote:

   What would a Yiddish-speaking Jew who lived there have called this area?  Please give a transliteration for those of us who do not read Hebrew letters.  I know it was also called Russian-Poland in English, so how would this same Yiddish speaker have pronounced "Russian-Poland"?
   Because it is likely that others will find this information helpful, please post it for all to see.
   Thank you in advance.
Josephine Rosenblum
Cincinnati, OH
Searching: LESTZ in Seduva; ROSENBLUM or ROZENBLUM in Aleksotas; LEVINSON and ZEEMAN in Ponemon.  All in Lithuania.

Re: Searching descendants of Simcha SCHECHTER, (Brooklyn NY early 1900’s)

Barbara Zimmer

I like Sam Schechter born about 1865 who says he arrived in the US 3 Feb 1881.

In the 1910 census Sam and his wife Sarah have 6 children. Sarah says she has given birth to 8 children, 6 living.
And in 1910 they live on Havemeyer Street in Brooklyn which is quite close to the Brooklyn Bridge.

Here is the family in 1910.

1910 United States Federal Census
Name: Samuel Schechter
Age in 1910: 45
Birth Year: abt 1865
Birthplace: Austria
Home in 1910: Brooklyn Ward 13, Kings, New York
Street: Havemeyer Street
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1881
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital status: Married
Spouse's name: Sarah Schechter
Father's Birthplace: Austria
Mother's Birthplace: Austria
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Operator
Industry: Coats Shop
Employer, Employee or Other: Wage Earner
Home Owned or Rented: Rent
Farm or House: House
Naturalization Status: Naturalized
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 22
Out of Work: N
Number of weeks out of work: 0
Samuel Schechter 45
Sarah Schechter 42
Abraham Schechter 21
Minie Schechter 19
Louis Schechter 16
Solomon Schechter 13
Sadie Schechter 8
Victor Schechter 4

If I am correct, then Sam married Sarah GERHART in 1888.

Sam Shachter
New York, New York City Marriage Records, 1829-1947
Name: Sam Shachter
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 14 Feb 1888
Event Place: Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Age: 22
Marital Status: Single
Birth Year (Estimated): 1866
Birthplace: Galicia, Austria
Father's Name: Adolf Shachter
Mother's Name: Goldberger
Spouse's Name: Sarah Gerhart
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Age: 19
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): 1869
Spouse's Birthplace: Hungaria
Spouse's Father's Name: M. A. Gerhart
Spouse's Mother's Name: Jettie Gartner

Benzion arrived in 1892. His surname was spelled differently.

New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Benzian Schlochter
Arrival Date: 3 Feb 1892
Birth Date: abt 1873
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Austrian
Place of Origin: Austria
Port of Departure: Rotterdam
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Werkendam

Barbara Zimmer
Norfolk VA

Re: Once upon a time there was a moderator for this group.....


That  doesn’t seem the case in my aol account. It might help some.
i have contacted support on three occasions with3 different numbers, one 2 days after launch, and no one ever got back to me so when a moderator says it is the proper place to email for ongoing site problems it is not sufficient. This is the only place.
Louise Hajdenberg
New York

Re: Bad Aarolsen Data Base


May be helpful to know...
When searching on Bad Arolsen, there are many results (with record images) that do not show up on ushmm searches. ushmm has a vast record collection but only a percentage, like Bad Arolsen, have been digitized and indexed to be made available online.
I also find info on Yad Vashem database that isn’t on ushmm and vice versa.
Yad Vashem often doesn’t have images that ushmm has. Important to cross check all three databases and any others.
ushmm has also has a very useful collections search.


Sent from Freda's iPhone

Sent from Freda's iPhone

Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>

Many went directly to New York from Hamburg, avoiding the change of ship. Emigrants in my family from southern Germany  left from Le Havre to New York.

There were, of course, many other possibilities.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

Re: Once upon a time there was a moderator for this group.....

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>

WISH IT WERE THAT EASY.  When i attempt to sign in I get this message:  That email address does not have a account.  
Odd, because I’ve been using that email for over 20 years! And that’s how I sign in to the JewishGen databases.    

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

On Jan 18, 2020, at 3:58 PM, Glenda Rubin <glendathree@...> wrote:

Looking at some of my recent replies that posted to the group, I saw a tagline with my name and location (that I had input)  and another  tagline with that info plus the names and places I'm researching.  Checking the discussion group page at on the subscription link I found there's a section called *signature*, where you enter information that will automatically appear as a tagline at the bottom of all your messages.  I had forgotten about that until this discussion. If someone has posted this already, sorry for the duplication.


On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 6:37 AM Merv & Naomi Barnett <barnett@...> wrote:
I find it curious that some posters to this group don't consider it necessary to state where they reside in the world and numerous posters don't add a signature.  Surely when anyone sends a message to a friend or work colleague or a business, emails are always signed.  

Once upon a time there was a moderator who kept us all in line and brought these omissions to our attention.  I'm not suggesting we need to go back to an overseer but common courtesy would be welcome and appreciated.

Naomi Barnett
Melbourne, Australia

-- =========================================
Glenda Rubin
San Francisco Bay Area
Researching: STRYZEWSKI, STRAUSS, JANOFSKY, JANOFF, OBODOV, WERNICK, GREENBERG, KROCHAK. Shtetls: Lipovets, Ilintsy, Pliskov, Starokonstantinov, Krasilov._,_


You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#320666) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic

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Pale of Settlement

Josephine Rosenblum

   What would a Yiddish-speaking Jew who lived there have called this area?  Please give a transliteration for those of us who do not read Hebrew letters.  I know it was also called Russian-Poland in English, so how would this same Yiddish speaker have pronounced "Russian-Poland"?
   Because it is likely that others will find this information helpful, please post it for all to see.
   Thank you in advance.
Josephine Rosenblum
Cincinnati, OH
Searching: LESTZ in Seduva; ROSENBLUM or ROZENBLUM in Aleksotas; LEVINSON and ZEEMAN in Ponemon.  All in Lithuania.

Re: Buying false papers

Jane Foss

Rose Lowenkron, my cousin Estelle's mother, bought her sister's papers and ship's ticket and managed to get into the US tho she was only about 14..Jane Lowenkron Foss

Re: Maiming to Avoid the Russian Draft?

Toby Blake

My Grandfather from Tomaszow Lubelski, Poland told us that he drank Sauerkraut juice to
upset his stomach and avoid the draft. He suffered from stomach issues his entire life.

Toby Blake
Portland, Oregon

Re: Once upon a time there was a moderator for this group.....

Beverley Davis

Quoted message:

Re: Once upon a time there was a moderator for this group.....
From: Glenda Rubin
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 10:20:04 AEDT
It doesn't seem to be consistent, but I hit reply to Louise's message (not via the links below the message, but the ordinary reply button in g-mail). The subsequent screen was blank, but there was the image of 3 dots in the bottom left corner [...], which is a g-mail thing showing a message has been clipped. I clicked on that, and a quote of the previous message appeared. Hope this might help with the threads issue.

(Also hoping my name, location, and research interests will automatically appear when this is sent).



Hi Glenda: re your last line, no they didn’t!!!
Best wishes,
Beverley Davis, Melbourne, Australia

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