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I totally agree with Jeff. Besides the high probability that there has never been a King David, at least in the form described in our "Tanach", there is a vast literature on Branching processes starting with "the rate of extinction of surnames along the generations" by Galton and Watson, 1875. It has been further shown that for a generation duration of around 25 years, and given a certain "David", after 500-800 years the whole population will be his descendants. Even if we consider "Assortative mating" (Endogamy), common to very many Jewish communities, this process of disseminating the "Davidic" traits is only moderately delayed.
We used this modelling to understand the spreading of mutations typical for the Jewish population, and gave an example of the spreading of the genetic disease FMF (Familial Mediterranean Fever). See: Levi and Gath, Effects of mating patterns on genealogical trees: Assessment of the high carrier rate of Familial Mediterranean Fever in rural Israeli districts, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 443 (2018) 92–99.
Prof. Isak Gath MD, DIC, DSc
Faculty of Biomedical Engineering Tel. Office #972-4-8294115
Technion Israel Institute of Technology Home #972-4-9835704
32000 Haifa, Israel
Re: What Do You Pay a Translator for a 50 Page Document in Pollsh #translation
My translator from Old German/Modern German to English charges $2 per page. I think that's very fair.
На долгую память дорогой мамочке от младшей дочери Раи.
Если встретиться нам не придется,
Если наша судьба такова,
Пусть на память тебе остается
Неподвижная личность моя.
Станция Исеть, 12 мая 1952 г.
На вечную долгую память брату и снохе от сестры Раи.
Пройдут быть может сколько лет
И вами буду забыта
Пусть карточки оставит след
Что вместе было пережито.
Станция Исеть, 26/12/54
For a long memory, dear mother from the youngest daughter Raya.
If we don’t have to meet,
If our fate is this
Let you remember
My still person.
Iset Station, May 12, 1952
To the eternal long memory of his brother and daughter-in-law from Sister Raya.
Maybe how many years will pass
And you will be forgotten
Let the cards leave a mark
What was experienced together.
Iset Station, 26/12/54
Re: Samovics family from Benedike/Benedikovce/Benedykivtsi #hungary
There are two places I'd recommend going for Benedike records:
1. https://sub-carpathia-genealogy.org/default.htm which has a
database of a ton of records from Subcarpathia, the area in modern-day
Ukraine that was formerly part of the Kingdom of Hungary pre-WW1 and
Czechoslovakia in the inter-war period. The database itself is free,
but it closets $15.75 to order the record itself. For Benedike they do
have a bunch of birth records available, and when I searched for
Samovics I found a number of records, with two sets of parents for the
records: Herman and an Izraelovics (who had children between
1881-1903), and Pinkas and an Engelman (who had children between
or the Ukrainian WIkipedia page for Shtetl. For the last several
years, Jewish records have been digitized from all over Ukraine and
uploaded to the page, including a significant number of Subcarpathian
records. Google Translate can translate the page into English, and
while the records themselves aren't text-searchable the Subcarpathian
records are in the Latin alphabet and it's fairly simple to scroll
through the pages until you find what you're looking for. They have
Benedike records from 1863-1895, which should include both birth
records mentioned in the Sub-Carpatia website I mentioned before along
with marriage and death records that are not in the database. Fair
warning, a significant number of those records are for towns part of
the Benedike district.
To sum up, you can get Benedike up to 1895 for free from the Wikipedia
page, but after that you'd need to buy them from the Sub-Carpathia
I hope that helps!
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:39 PM t s via groups.jewishgen.org
Hi, I posted some documents for translation on Viewmate. They are Polish Book of Resident entires written in Russian. I would appreciate any help in translating,
Moderator Note: Please use the ViewMate response box or reply privately
Jan Meisels Allen
Items hidden by Auschwitz prisoners were recovered from a chimney in the concentration camp. The objects were found in Block 17 of the former Main Camp at Auschwitz as part of the renovation work undertaken by Austria’s National Fund for the vVctims of Nazism.
Prisoners with special manual skills were housed in the building where the items were found.
Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
Fold3 Free Access Through May 25 #events
Jan Meisels Allen
Fold3, a member of the Ancestry family of companies, is offering free access to its collection of 550 million records until 25 May 2020 at 11:59 p.m. ET. After the free access period ends, you will only be able to view the records in the featured collections using a paid Ancestry® All-Access or Fold3® membership.
You can view without registering,. If you want to print or download you need to register with your name, email address and password. See the tool icon on the upper right side of the screen.
I have no affiliation with Fold3 or Ancestry and am posting this solely for the information of the reader.
Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
MNJGS “Finding Treasure in the Archives” May 24, 1pm CDT #events
On May 24, 2020 from 1:00 PM – 2:30 PM, The Minnesota Jewish Genealogical Society, the Berman
Upper Midwest Jewish Archives and TC Jewfolk will be hosting Kate Dietrick and Susan Weinberg
speaking on Finding Treasure in the Archives. The meeting will be held online and a link will be
provided upon registration.
Register at https://www.mnjgs.org/event
JewishGen Records Updates #JewishGenUpdates
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We are pleased to invite you to the first in a series of upcoming JewishGen webinars:
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and Inquisition Records (English)
Wednesday June 3, 2020 @ 7:00 PM EDT
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Director of Communications
1000 years is approximately 40 generations. If in each generation, the average number of children who go on to have their own children is 2, after 40 generations there could be a trillion descendants. This number is some 10,000 times larger than the likely global population at the time, so it is impossible to rule out David being an ancestors of everyone in the known world. Note: I am not claiming that he was.
--Yale Zussman SEND ANY REPLIES BY PRIVATE EMAIL to <YaleZuss@...>
Both the American Friends Service Committee and the Unitarian Universalist Service Committee worked in the camps in south France. USHMM has these records which are mostly indexed. If you haven't already, email resource-center@... and ask them to check those 2 specific collections.
The Joint also provided relief in these camps and have indices and records on their website archives.jdc.org.
Megan Lewis Reference Librarian
National Institute for Holocaust Documentation
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Jeff at SG
I totally agree with you. In some of my lectures many years ago I had a section with a PowerPoint slide that asked 'who in this room is descended from King David?'
I then went on to show the increasing numbers of people needed in each ancestral generation and showed just like you that it soon exceeded the number of people alive on the planet at that time (leave alone just Jews). Of course that was because the same individuals appeared repeatedly in many different places in the ancestral tree.
I also presented a study by the Yale statstician Joseph Chang (Advances in Applied Probability, 1999) who calculated that if an individual moved into a certain area of the world and had at least one child, then, 800 years later:
=E2=80=94there was a 20% chance that that individual's line had gone extinct. That is, there was no one living in that part of the world descended from him.
=E2=80=94there was an 80% chance that individual was the direct ancestor of everyone in that part of the world.
The final slide in this section then rre-asked the question of who in the room was descended from King David. With my verbal answer, 'probably everyone'.
Another interesting point related to me by Bennet Greenspan is that even though there are several families claiming direct male descent from King David (actually from his descendants, the exilarchs in Babylonia) their Y-DNAs did not match. So they couldn't possibly all be direct male descendants.....
I always though claiming Davidic descent was silly. Even though the British Royal family also makes that claim.
Re: Sharing family tree information #general
I concur with the majority of people who responded to your question; don't reveal information about living relatives. You would be violating their right to privacy and could potentially exposing them to a scammer. With respect to decreased ancestors, share only the basics that is already in the public domain. Release only a small amount at a time and wait to see if they reciprocate and the type of info they share. If you can, try to validate their info. While we all want to be helpful to our fellow genealogists, you mustn't forget there is always a bad apply in every group.
Re: "Mother" (But Not "Husband") On a Married Woman's Grave #general
Searching for DAVIS family Los Angeles #usa
Search for sisters Marjorie Bonnie and Pamela DAVIS born in the 1950s California. Children of Donald DAVIS (1927 Minneapolis to 1986 California) and Joanne LASKOWITZ DAVIS 1928-1999
Granddaughters of Robert DAVIS and Ruth Shirley LITZ Their grandfather Robert DAVIS was involved with ANGELES Furniture. His sister was Rose ZANES married to Harry ZANE of ZANES drugstore in Fairfax. Other brother to Rose DAVIS ZANE and Robert DAVIS was he late pediatrician Dr, David DAVIS. Roots in Minneapolis The sisters are the great granddaughters of Max W DAVIS and Mary WOLPERT DAVIS,
Bill WOLPERT in MINNEAPOLIS
Searching WOLPERT VOLPERT WOLPER WOLFE GROSSBERG GROSBERG
TRYSKIAI, VIEKSNIAI KEDAINIAI
If anybody has a HEISER or two lurking in their family tree, please let me know. The family originated from KEMPEN (now Kepno in Poland) and my great great grandfather, Abraham Heiser, became a dealer in toys, china and Bohemian glass in London. He had eleven surviving children, many of whom settled in US, especially in and around Philadelphia. One of them, REUBEN HEISER, married his niece, ESTHER BITTAN, there in 1899 but the marriage quickly foundered and he then appears to have disappeared without trace. He was born in c 1860 in London and was listed as an upholsterer in Philadelphia trade directories but I have nothing else to go on. Perhaps he changed his name, perhaps he dropped dead, perhaps he was committed to an asylum. Who knows? I am grasping at straws. All insights, ideas and words of wisdom gratefully received.
With all good wishes - Howard Lewis (London)
Also seeking SZCZURYK/SHURICK in WLODAWA, POLAND
COHEN/GREENBERG in SOUTH AFRICA
Re: Need help to decode abreviations & symbols on Detained Alien Passenger List #usa
"RR" means via rail. See: https://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/manifests/detained/
HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York
KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
KRONOWITH: Hungary > New York
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STRUL: Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles
Samovics family from Benedike/Benedikovce/Benedykivtsi #hungary
Based on ship manifest records from 1899-1909 and from the Auschwitz-Buchenwald Transport during January 22 & 26, 1945, I discovered that my Samovics relatives were from Benedike (a.k.a. Benedikovce during WW II) in what was then part of Hungary (it is now part of the Ukraine and is referred to as Benedykivtsi). I am looking for advice about how to specifically access records from this town.
Alberto Guido Chester
These mathematical issues are my cup of tea.
Besides Tom Klein´s comment reproduced below, I suggest the original poster to look in the Jewishgen archives for my 1994 (yes, not a typo) post titled "how many Jews have been in the history of mankind" (and replies) and further mathematical inquiries as posted by A.R. Liboff, Michael Bernet their respective replies.
A demographic timeline of Jewish history I find very interesting is available at
Hope this helps
Alberto Guido Chester
Buenos Aires, Argentina
"at the 2002 iajgs conference (in toronto as it happens), one of the presentations touched on a very similar theme, that within a given population, is it mathematically possible to prove whether 2 individuals were related? the answer lies in reversing the question, and asking what it would take for them not to share a common ancestor: for each generation that they are not related, there would have to be 2x as many distinct ancestors. and fairly quickly, that number, 2^n, would exceed the total number of humans. assuming about 25 years per generation, 1000 years would be 40 generations; 2^40 is a trillion. that's a far bigger number than there have ever been humans on earth. (estimated at 100 billion.)
the flipside is that assuming that the person's line didn't die out, and assuming that there weren't any special taboos or physical barriers limiting their offspring, it would also mean that after a sufficient number of generations, everyone is descended from any given individual.
so either king david's line ended, and no one is, or after 1000 years everyone was his descendant.
but what is the purpose of your research?
....... tom klein, toronto"