Re: polite, correct word for genealogy purposes? #general

Robert Hanna


Trudy Barch asks:


What is the correct term nowadays for…

A)     2 males living together as an unmarried couple?   Married couple?

B)     2 females as an unmarried couple?     Married couple?

C)    Male and female as an unmarried couple?



I would call them, respectively:
A) partners (unmarried men)  and  husbands (married men)
B) partners (unmarried women)  and  wives (married women)
C) partners (unmarried opposite gender)
Others may feel differently.
Robert Hanna
Researching:  Chanan, Blumenblat, Karasik, Thomashow, Cohen, Rubinstein, Bunderoff, Pastilnik, Nemoyten, Diskin, and variations of all.


An Old Song - Possibly Russian, possibly Yiddish #general

David Cantor

I have a very old and distant memory of my grandfather singing a song with a title that sounded like Toni Godl.  The o in Toni is short and I have failed to find any reference.

He was allegedly from Kiev, Ukraine

This has been nagging away for ages, can anyone enlighten me?


Re: US Naturalization Papers from the Supreme Court #usa #general


Okay I don't know why I didn't find this when I looked before, but it would appear the records are at NARA in DC, included within RG 21.  From their catalog (ONLY items that would cover 1922):

NAID 7691865  - “Naturalization Certificate stub index” dating 1906-1926
NAID 7692316 - Declarations of Intention to become US citizens 1818-1926
NAID 6051624 - Naturalization petitions, 1906-1926
NAID 6051621 - Military Petitions for Naturalization, 1918-1924
NAID 6051623 - Military naturalization stubs, 1918-1924

Family Legends (Was Re: Fairy Tales my Father Told Me) #general

Shlomo Katz

There is a legend in my family, which I first heard from a distant cousin when I was in my 40s, that our ancestors fled Galicia for Maramures (then, Hungary; now Romania) because their non-Jewish maid tipped them off that there was a plot to murder them or involve them in a blood libel. The implication was that the family was wealthy; why else would the gentiles care to bother them?

My 3x great-grandfather, who was the ancestor who made the journey, is listed on his death record in Felsoviso, Hungary (Viseul de Sus, Romania) as having been born in Nadworna, Galicia in 1828. I have searched the available Nadworna Cadastral maps and not found any hint that my ancestors owned land there. Not a proof that the story is false, but makes me wonder. Then again, maybe he made up being born in Nadworna.

Shlomo Katz
Silver Spring, MD

Re: polite, correct word for genealogy purposes? #general

Alyssa Freeman

As far as I know, a couple is a couple, regardless of the genders involved. People sometimes talk about same-sex couples/marriage, but they're still a couple.
Alyssa Freeman
Richmond, VA

Re: Fairy Tales my Father Told Me #belarus


I think a kinder (and actually more accurate) way of describing these stories is "family legends" or "family stories".  My sense is that a good many of these stories aren't made up from a whole cloth and will often contain a kernel of truth.  Here's my family legend:  The first Gottfried that came to Hungary (where my father’s family is from) was from Germany—a Catholic priest who got mixed up with the Reformation and then had to run for his life.  Somewhere between Germany and Hungary he fell in love with a Jewish woman and converted to Judaism. (That’s a lot of religions in one lifetime.)  And since that time all Gottfrieds in Central and Eastern Europe are Jewish.  My grandfather told my father this story. I asked my father if he thought it was true and he said, “I don’t know; but I do  know that your grandfather didn't have enough imagination to make it up." Of course, that hardly rules out earlier ancestors making up the story and passing it down to my grandfather.  And I've also heard that apocryphal stories of a gentile connection are quite common (not sure why).  Still ... while I know that there are gentile Gottfrieds from Central and Eastern Europe, nearly all Gottfrieds that I’ve encountered (via records and documents and in person) from that part of the world are in fact Jewish.  Even those who aren’t Jewish often turn out to be converts to Christianity.  So perhaps there’s a kernel of truth in this story there somewhere. It's been a goal of mine ever since I heard the story, at age 8 or 9, to see if I can track down the kernel--kind of my "white whale" you might say.  In my imagination I refer to this supposed ancestor as "The Priest."                                                                                                                                                                                            Erika Gottfried -  Teaneck, New Jersey

Re: Szasz family from Hungary #hungary

Margarita Lacko

Just for the record, the name of the book is "Wine and Thorns in Tokay Valley: Jewish Life in Hungary; The History of Abaújszántó" by Zahava Száz Stessel.


Most of my BLAU family is mentioned in this book. A treasure for me!


Margarita Lackó

genealogy: © mishpologia@...



From: main@... [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of paveanyu@...
Sent: Sunday, 07 June, 2020 6:56 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [] Szasz family from Hungary #hungary


I wonder, are you looking for the 'Szasz family--Zahava Szasz-----  famous book 'Thorns in the Tokaj Valley?--From Abaujszanto Hungary?

She lives in New York and her sister is in Israel

Zahava --I had the honour to meet her personally --is an exceptionally fine, superb Lady--her books are 'treasured'--

She/her family lived in the same street in Abaujszanto -Hungary--as my Grandparents---Biederman ( Grunwald)

Best wishes to you and to Everybody at JewishGen.

Veronika Pachtinger---paveanyu@...

Re: Jewish name Dove #names

Carole Feinberg

Decades ago, I went to a doctor in Atlanta whose surname was JOVE. I think the following cut and paste is the family:

Nathan Jové, M.D. is a third generation orthopedic surgeon. Dr. Jové has followed in the footsteps of his grandfather, DrJulio Jové, and his father, Dr. Maurice Jové. Dr. Jové earned his undergraduate degree in chemistry from Emory University. He received his medical degree from Temple University School of Medicine in Philadelphia ...

Is it possible the "D" in DOVE was really a "J" in JOVE? By the way, there is an acute accent over the "E", making the pronunciation "HOVAY".

Good luck with your research.


Re: polite, correct word for genealogy purposes? #general


Partners or Life Partners

On Sunday, June 7, 2020, 07:03:36 AM CDT, Trudy Barch <cousintrudy@...> wrote:

What is the correct term nowadays for…

A)     2 males living together as an unmarried couple?   Married couple?

B)     2 females as an unmarried couple?     Married couple?

C)    Male and female as an unmarried couple?


Thank you,   Trudy Barch, Florida

Re: US Naturalization Papers from the Supreme Court #usa #general

A. E. Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniela <sciakyd@...>
I'm trying to find out what it means when a record says Naturalization: Supreme Court of Washington, DC 1922.

Could this be a naturalization as a result of serving in the military?

Yes this person naturalized it says in the Supreme Court of Washington DC.  Search the court on the Internet and find either the clerk or the record room and ask them what the process is for retrieving the document and where they are stored.  The National Archives is making a big effort working even with local courts to scan the old records but if you are not lucky enough to find them online go to the court... it is the simplest route.

There are some special files of military naturalizations bu for the most part unless the person was active in the military at the moment the records are with the local court.  Generally the military exemption simply took you around the waiting periods.  I just worked on one who was naturalized in the federal court in Brooklyn and attached to he application is a letter saying the person had served in the military for a year in 1942 so they were to get immediate naturalization but the record was with the court not the military.  He had been dismissed from the military due to poor health prior to the naturalization.

The naturalization process evolved over time.  Prior to 1906 it was possible to go to the local court or the federal court to go through the process.  So when you are dealing with someone who lived in a city or major metropolitan area you really need to check multiple courts.  

The federal government started to centralize and standardize the naturalization process in 1906 but local courts continued to at least the 1920s also doing naturalizations.  There is a master file in Washington DC at CIS of all the naturalizations in all courts after 1906 but it is costly and time consuming to access and my experience is they have trouble finding the records.  Again start with the local court or the regional NARA offices have most of the federal court records.

One more challenge is that there was no residency requirement so for example someone might have lived in Brooklyn but worked in Manhattan and thought it was simpler to do it in Manhattan and filed there.  Usually it is close to home but it does not have to be.

Also the process was to use a 21st century term portable.  Meaning someone lived in Manhattan and filed first papers.  Then moved to Brooklyn and hence to do his declaration went to the Brooklyn court instead of returning to the Manhattan court.  The Brooklyn court checked the Manhattan records to confirm the first papers had been filed and then took over the process.  I just saw one of these cases where attached to the first papers is a letter between the courts attesting to the records.  When I can I have to go to the second court to find the remainder of the naturalization record.

Hope that helps

Allan Jordan

House of Glass French/Polish family and Picasso #france #poland #sephardic

Jill Whitehead

I have just finished reading House of Glass by Hadley Freeman, who is a US journalist based in London. It is a biography of her grandmother Sala Glass and her siblings Henri, Jacques and Alex who emigrated from Poland to Paris in the 1920's. Jacques perished in the holocaust but the two other brothers were involved in the Fench Resistance and became successful businessmen post war, the youngest brother Alex becoming a Paris couturier and art collector. He knew Dior, Chagall and Picasso. Allegedly Picasso (who was from Southern Spain) told him that his mother was from a Marrano family. Although the author said she could find no evidence for this, I thought this was quite intriguing, and I wondered if Picasso's mother's supposed Jewish links had ever been investigated?

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK

Re: Can someone please translate this tombstone from Hebrew to English? #translation


Hi Ryan,
Here is the translation from Hebrew to English from the tombstone

Woman (a word that I do not recognize) Mrs. Bela daughter of Shmuel died on the 5 Menahen Av 5684 (hebrew date which correspond to August 5 1924)

Hope this help you

Sara Abrashkin-Rotaru

Re: New Ukraine records #ukraine #russia

alizah hochstead

My mother’s family were I believe from the Ukraine. Her father’s name was Asher Aron Weinstein (in EnglishOscar) Her name was Rahel Yetta Weinstein. Her mother’s name was Chaya (Ida) Skora Weinstein. THey came to the US in the 1900’s. Would these records help me?

Re: Y DNA question #dna

Sarah L Meyer

Look for first or second cousins that are sons of your father or grandfather's brothers.  Make sure that you only follow the male line.  My father had no brothers, but his father had two of them.  Each of those brothers had sons, and their sons had sons.  I tested two male second cousins and learned one was a 1/2 second cousin.  Yes I  would definitely also test yourself with the autosomal and your male cousins on the paternal side.  
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania

Re: Y DNA question #dna

Eva Lawrence

As I understand it, every woman inherits DNA from their father as well as from their mother in equal proportions (the double helix).  So people you share DNA with are just as likely to be relatives on your father's side as on your mother's.  Each gene consists of many chromosome-pairs  One of each pair comes from  the father, the other from the mother. Different human characteristics are influenced by different chromosome-pairs on the gene  but only one particular  pair  determines the sex of the child.  It's only this single chromosome .pair that can have a male-type Y chromosome which has to be passed on from the father and acts like a gender switch. .  The same pair could well have an X-type chromosome from the father as well as from the mother, and result in a female child.  So you and your three sisters have as many chromosomes from your father as from your mother and  share DNA with your father's side of the family too,  even half-siblings.
Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK.

Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK.

Re: Jewish name Dove #names


"Dov" is a male name in Hebrew.  I happen to know that because Sal Mineo played Dov in the movie "Exodus."  Verified the name online.

Linda Comac


Re: Double Surname in Belarus Revision List #belarus #general

Chuck Weinstein

Revision Lists were the Russian Empire's version of a census.  They highlighted revisions since the last list.  They were done at irregular intervals during the 19th and early 20th centuries.  Many have been indexed and are on line, but Belarus liswts have not been digitized.

Chuck Weinstein

Re: Jewish name Dove #names



Good morning,


‘DOV’ is a very common name and means bear in Hebrew.

Shalom,  Malka Chosnek

Re: US Naturalization Papers from the Supreme Court #usa #general


Sally is right that there's no one answer for all times and places.

It appears the Supreme Court of DC was like a "county court" in Washington DC for some time, including 1922.  A cursory search did not clarify the exact location of its records today.  Because DC isn't a State the jurisdictions can be confusing, and if looking for those records I'd probably start with the National Archives in DC (if they don't have them they should know who does).

Whether a 1922 naturalization could be that of a WW I vet who naturalized under the 1918 military naturalization provisions is a different question, and can't be answered without more information or the actual record.  

Marian Smith

Re: Help locating town from Poznan area census #translation #poland

Simon Srebrny

Carlsruhe O/S = Carlsruhe, Oberschlesien = Carlsruhe in Upper Silesia = nowadays Pokój, Poland.
Militsch = Milicz
I am surprised google did not want to share this info with you directly.
When I read your post, my heart missed a beat, as I had relatives named ECKSTEIN in that very same Carlsruhe.
Just two letters of separation from your folks, but no cigar.
Simon Srebrny
(from London, living in Berlin)

Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 18:45:22 EDT 

Hi folks.

I’m having trouble finding the towns mentioned in this card (attached), it is from a census written in German. My guess is that these are towns near the Polish/German border. I have circled out the towns in a red box.

I would also very much appreciate to learn where are these towns today.

Moses J.


18021 - 18040 of 661984