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Re: Seeking information on Samuel Gluck #hungary #usa

Renee Steinig
 

From what I'm seeing, Samuel's older children (Katie, Morris, Rosie, Fannie) were born in Hungary in the 1870s and early 1880s and the younger ones (Estelle/Esther, Joseph) were born in the US in the mid-1880s. Estelle's records show birth in NY; Joseph's say either NY or Wisconsin. What looks like the right family was in NY for the 1900 and 1905 census (Samuel and Fannie Gluck and children, Houston St., Manhattan). A listing in 1915 -- Samuel and Francis Gluck on Ave A, Manhattan -- also looks promising. So any time spent in Milwaukee or Boston may have been short.

I found on JewishData.com the gravestone of a Samuel Gluck who died in 1918 and is buried at Washington Cemetery in Brooklyn. Also at Washington Cemetery, with a very similarly designed gravestone, is Fanny Gluck.  

Some details from the graves:

Samuel Gluck 
Sini Yo..? ben Yakov Yehuda (See detailed attached.)
died 13 Jan 1918, age 73

Fanny Gluck
Frieda bat Moshe Zvi
died 19 May 1918, age 70

Some details from their death records (viewed on FamilySearch and Ancestry):

Samuel Glick 
Born c1853 Hungary
Died 13 Jan 1918 Manhattan
Parents: Jacob Glick, Katie Gottfried
Note: 317 Ave A

Fanny Gluck
Born 16 May 1858 Hungary
Died 19 May 1918  745 Brook Ave, Bronx 
Parents: Morris Goldberg, Kate Gross

There are several reasons to think that these are the right people...

Hebrew names - Names of both are similar to the parents' names ("Sima" and "Frida") that appear on a transcription of "Ester" Gluck and Charles Mittelman's 1910 marriage record. (See FamilySearch.)

Addresses - The address noted on Samuel's death record is the same as that of Samuel and Francis Gluck on the 1915 census. And 745 Brook Ave., Bronx -- Fanny's place of death -- was the address of his daughter Fannie Black  in Sept. 1918. (See Benjamin Black's WWI draft card.)

Bob: 
- Is it possible that your father was named for Samuel?
- You might try calling Washington Cemetery to ask whether Samuel and Fanny are buried near each other and whether any additional information about them appears in the cemetery's records.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills NY
genmaven@...

Bob Gluck <bobgluck1@...> wrote:

I am trying to find information about my great-grandfather, Samuel Gluck (maybe 1947-1929). I have very little. I believe that he was born in Budapest, immigrated to NYC around 1879, and at some point maybe moved to Milwaukee, WI. I believe that he was married to Frances Goldberger. Their children included my grandfather Joseph, Katie (Herz), Morris, Fannie (Black), and Esther (Mittleman). My late father, Joe’s son Stanley, once told me that Sam may have lived in Milwaukee for a few years and eventually moved to the Boston area, but he didn’t really know. Any ideas?
Re: Searching KESSLER, Brooklyn, NY #usa

lsragovicz@...
 

My uncle's wife (my aunt Susan) is a Kessler.  Her father was Jack Jacob Louis Kessler born in New York. His dad was Abraham Kessler  born in Russia about 1886. If it rings a bell, I will be happy to get you guys in touch
--
Lia Sragovicz
Reply to rhonda.post@...descendants of Mates KONIGSBERG, Sara VOGEL, Sara VISMAN #poland #israel

Baker Rosalie
 


Looking for descendants of Mates KONIGSBERG, KEHGSBERG, Sara VOGEL, Sara VISMAN #poland #israel



Hello Rhonda,

This is the only way I can figure out how to reply to you.  Also I am not familiar with GEDMatch.

My maternal grandfather was Fajwel Konigsberg (born 1873).  His father was Levi Itzko (born 1839).  They were born in and around Tarnogrod.  Is your family from that area?  Perhaps Gabriel Konigsberg and Levi itzko were brothers or cousins.
My great aunt had a daughter named Miriam.  The other names are not famiiar to me.  




 Baker Rosalie
Jun 26   

My uncle, Mates KONIGSBERG was born in Tarnogrod, Poland 06/17/1902 to Shrage Fajwel and Meite 
He moved to Danzig, then Berlin, then Amsterdam, then Barsingerhorn in Holland.

Sara VOGEL was born in Cieszanow (Czeszenow, Ciechanow, Cheszanow,) Poland on March 4, 2011 to Mordekhai and Yeta.

On June 12, 1936, Mates KONIGSBERG married Sara VOGEL in Holland.

On August 3, 1936 they arrived in Palestine on the ship “Galil”

I am at a brick wall.  Except on the Yad Vashem website I found pages of testimony for Josef FOGEL from Cieszanow born 1905, Rachel WOGEL from Czeszenow born 1908 and Yitzkhak Dawid VOGEL from Ciechanow born 1914.

Yitzkhak Dawid and Josef were victims of the holocaust in the Netherlands.

 The Pages of Testimony were submitted by their sister, Sara VISMAN

Sara, born in 1911 fits right in with Josef, Rachel and Yitzkhak. My father did say that Mates died young. I think Sara Vogel Konigsberg married Mr. Visman after my uncle died. 

Any information on descendants of Mates KONIGSBERG, Sara VOGEL, Sara VISMAN would be greatly appreciated.  


 More
 rhonda.post@...
10:10am   

Hello Rosalie

I didn’t see an email address for you, so I am posting my response here. My paternal great grandmother was Miriam Konigsberg (born 1856).  Her father was Gabriel Konigsberg (born 1830) son of Nathan Konigsberg (born 1800) who was the son of Simon Konigsberg. 

I am curious if you have gone further back with your uncle’s lineage and I wonder if your family intersects with my family. Both my father and I are in GEDMatch as A198550 and A870426. 

Rhonda Post
Rhonda.Post@...

 More
Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

karen.silver@juno.com
 

Yes, parents and grandparents lied to their children and grandchildren for a great many reasons.  My grandmother who came in 1904 told me she was born in Kiev, that they had their own house and their own cow.  And believe me she left a lot out of that story!  Many who came as children themselves had no idea what names were used on the manifests or back home.  They had no birth certificates.  Those who came before 1907 did not have to prove what ship they arrived on or what name was used.  Acquaintences and family vouched for them on naturalization papers.  Women who gained their citizenship through marriage never needed to know any of this either.  One of my great grandmothers even lied about the ages of her twin sons on the manifest so as not to arouse suspicion about the smallness of one of them with the Ellis Island inspectors.  Spellings of names on different documents also varied due to the transliteration from the Yiddish  to Russian to Polish to English alphabets and gradual evolution of spelling and some of those variations did not follow Soundex patterns.  Using "my name was changed at Ellis Island" was an easy excuse that cut off a great many uncomfortable conversations. 

Each and every family has a different story and in my 23 years of doing this I can tell you that part of the joy of genealogy is the search for the truth.  Sometimes the truth is good and sometimes it is awful, but in the end it is just the truth.  Our ancestors were complicated people who did their best to thrive in America and yes, they did lie!
Looking for Polish woman who jumped off train to Auschwitz #holocaust #poland

DALE ZEIDMAN
 

I am searching for a woman from Lomza, Poland, who was on a train to Auschwitz and jumped off. Did she survive? Did she make it to Israel? What was her name? Thanks for your help.

Dale Zeidman

New York
Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

JPmiaou@...
 

Jules Levin asked:
Do Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans,
German-Americans, Polish-Americans, etc, etc., have the same stories of
name changing?
Oh, yes. In spades. _Everyone_ believes it, totally without regard to specific origins. I've heard the "name changed at Ellis Island" myth from Italians, Hungarians, Jews, Catholics, whites, blacks, and everyone in between.

It's enough for a family story to include the phrases "name change" and "Ellis Island" for people to jump straight to the myth. Even if the family story is specifically that the name _wasn't_ changed at Ellis Island, what the genealogical neophyte comes away with is the exact opposite. Confirmation bias, I think it's called.

Julia Szent-Györgyi
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Early 1900s Jewish Family With Their Dog #general

Carl Kaplan
 

I recently connected with a 2nd cousin, and she sent me a picture from around 1905 (taken in New York or still in Russia) of her grandfather, his wife, and their first four children. One of the children is holding a dog. Being a dog lover, I was surprised, as I didn't think that at that time it was common for Jewish families, either in Minsk or New York, to have a dog, and especially to put it in a family portrait. I am curious if others have seen this. The family was definitely not affluent. I have a few studio photos of my grandfather, and have been told his outfit was borrowed from the photographer. Could they have borrowed a dog for the photo? I am very curious.
Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Sherri Bobish
 


Hello fellow 'genners,

Has a study ever been conducted as to the percentage of immigrants to the U.S. that did, or did not, at some point make the personal choice to alter their surname?

None of my four immigrant grandparents, who all came through Ellis Island, changed their surnames. 

I don't believe that names were changed at the point of immigration.

However, some immigrants did choose, at some point in their lives, to alter their surnames to varying degrees.

Coming to America meant being able to re-invent oneself.  Sometimes part of that personal journey was the voluntary choice of changing the first and/or surname.

Regards,

Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ
Re: Geni and Family Search #general

Max Heffler
 

I have found educated guesses, noted as such, to be extremely valuable is breaking through brick walls.

 

From: main@... [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of Jx. Gx. via groups.jewishgen.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:49 PM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Geni and Family Search #general

 

ALWAYS build your family history using primary sources such as census records, birth, marriage, death records, wills, and if your are fortunate to have living relatives interview them.  Actually, do the interviews first or at least at the same time you are doing the paper trail.  Remember, your elderly relatives won't be around forever to ask questions. The primary documents aren't perfect, but you can iron out most difference by comparing and contrasting these sources.  Only then when you are on solid ground or in the event you hit brick wall, look at family trees posted by other people.  But don't take their postings as fact. I've seen some really careless work. Search out their sources for yourself and apply the same critical analysis that you use when doing your own research.

Jeffrey Gee
Arizona     


--

Web sites I manage - Personal home page, Greater Houston Jewish Genealogical Society, Woodside Civic Club, Skala, Ukraine KehilalLink, Joniskelis, Lithuania KehilaLink, and pet volunteer project - Yizkor book project: www.texsys.com/websites.html
Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

C Chaykin
 

Amazing. No sooner than the "community" discards the canard that immigration officials changes people's names, another canard that name changes were effected by HIAS officials. Wow. That is even more imaginative and less plausible. 

Here's what happened, again and again: immigrants adopted new names, willingly and deliberately. The reasons for doing so varied – some names were in foreign alphabets (e.g. Cyrillic), some name spellings were not pronounced properly in English (e.g., Romanian -vici  suffix sounds like "English' -witz), some names were deemed too long to be practical, etc., etc., etc. But no reason was needed to use a new spelling or a new name. And in many (most?) instances, no government official or other representative was required to sanction the name change. Google the history of name changes in the U.S., and that is what you will find.

It was also possible to effect a name change at the time of naturalization, but again, this was done willingly and deliberately by the person being naturalized. 

Were mistakes made, in misspellings, or later imputed to bad handwriting? Sure, but again, I believe these errors did not become "memorialized" unless the immigrant adopted the mistakes or misspellings, willingly and deliberately.

BTW HIAS is still around, and available for inquiries. Good luck chasing down this new theory.
Re: Yiddish or Hebrew name for IDA #belarus #names

Alexander Sharon
 

My mother in law Ida was Idalia
Re: Heitler #general

JPmiaou@...
 

Looking for last name Heitler.
I have a maternal great-grandmother named Heitler; I've traced her grandfather and great-grandfather to Sikátor in Veszprém county, Hungary in the early 1800s. (They redrew the county lines and it's now in Győr-Moson-Sopron county.) They were Roman Catholic, but the village was majority Lutheran. (The Ottomans depopulated the village in the 1500s and it was re-settled in the early 1700s, mostly from various places in Germany, as far as I can tell.)

As you doubtless know, you can't do genealogy based on just surnames. Many people who are completely unrelated can have the same surname, while most of your closest relatives are likely to have a different surname.

Julia Szent-Györgyi
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*.*<
FAMILIES FRIDMAN AND KAMIENIECKI #belarus

Lemberski Evelyne
 

FAMILIES FRIDMAN AND KAMIENIECKI

I I would like to know the members of the family below have a family link with my great grandparents Zelman KAMIENIECKI born in KOBRYN in 1872 and his wife Chaya Khaya Zora Sora Haïa (I do not know her maiden name and I would like to know), my grandfather born on 22/10/1898 in brest litowsk
Here is the family:
Simon Lazare Schimon FRIDMAN OU FRIEDMAN born in 1870
Chaïa Hinda Haya SAKNOVITZKI SAKHNOVITZKI born in 1872
and their children
Jacques FRIEDMAN FRIDMAN born June 4, 1901 in Brest
Malka Marcelle FRIEDMAN FRIDMAN born December 10, 1908 in brest
Philippe FRIEDMAN FRIDMAN born November 19, 1898 in Brest
Léa FRIEDMAN FRIDMAN born in October 1895 in Brest

Besides, is there a link with Zelda FRYDMAN FRIEDMANN born in 1899 in Brest Litowsk whose father was Anchel FRYDMAN FRIEDMANN with the above family please?


Evelyne LEMBERSKI
Saint Maurice
(France)
evelynelemberski@...
Re: Yiddish or Hebrew name for IDA #belarus #names

Malka
 

 

Genners,

 

The Hebrew equivalent for Ida  may be  Ada (or Adah) which means jewel or adornment.

Shalom, Malka Chosnek
Re: Geni and Family Search #general

Jx. Gx.
 

ALWAYS build your family history using primary sources such as census records, birth, marriage, death records, wills, and if your are fortunate to have living relatives interview them.  Actually, do the interviews first or at least at the same time you are doing the paper trail.  Remember, your elderly relatives won't be around forever to ask questions. The primary documents aren't perfect, but you can iron out most difference by comparing and contrasting these sources.  Only then when you are on solid ground or in the event you hit brick wall, look at family trees posted by other people.  But don't take their postings as fact. I've seen some really careless work. Search out their sources for yourself and apply the same critical analysis that you use when doing your own research.

Jeffrey Gee
Arizona     
Re: Name Changes on Passenger Lists #general

Ada Glustein
 

To the best of my understanding, the original passenger lists were drawn up and handwritten by the pursers of the ship.  And I agree totally that they wrote down the names as heard by them.  In my own family's case, arriving in Canada on a ship that left from Antwerop, Belgium, I found my family's surname was written as "Gluckstein", perhaps a name familiar to the purser, at least moreso than Glustein.  The name originally was pronounced "Gluzshtein" (gluz-shteyn).  The children's first names also had the same "sound"; you could tell how they got to the name that was written, but not all the names were correct.  My own father's name was Israel, whose mother likely called him "S'ruel".  On the passenger list, he is marked as "Samuel", similar to what the purser must have heard.  Once in Canada, and as far as naturalization went, the spelling was as the family chose in Canada, and as recorded on the census and in the city directories, at first, Glushtein, and in later years, Glustein.  It's an evolutionary story!

Ada Glustein,
Vancouver, BC.

Searching:  GLUSTEIN (Kammenaya Krinitsa, Uman, Ukraine), PLETZEL (Ternovka, Ukraine)
Re: Pronunciation question - "G" Russian vs. Belarusian #russia #belarus

Dr.Josef ASH
 

Russian has NO sound "H" or Hebrew ה and NO letter for it.
in foreign words Rissian changes it to G (Г) like in Gematoma, Gemoglobin.
Sometimes it dissapears (as in hystory - История)
in belarussian language Г sounds as fricative sound so it is closer to h and, may be, it is easyer to sign english h or hebrew-yiddish ה (as in הערץ) by belarussian Г.
practically, if you know him as Herts (hart in Yiddish), call him Herts.
Re: Pronunciation question - "G" Russian vs. Belarusian #russia #belarus

Carole Shaw
 

There is no real H sound in Russian, and possibly in Byelorussian, as we know it in English/German.  What comes close is the sound Kh in Russian (pronounced like the German ch) and represented by the Cyrillic letter X but it is usually not used to represent the English H.  Instead the Cyrillic Г – hard G – is used.  Thus Herman becomes German (hard G), Harry becomes Gari and Hertz would become Gertz etc.

 

Interestingly, other Slavonic languages, e.g. Czech, have many words beginning with H where one would find a G sound in Russian. Thus the recent threads on JewishGen re Horodok/Gorodok.  In some regions of Russia, i.e. in the south, the local dialect replaces the hard initial Russian G with an H sound.  Pop group (groopa) becomes hroopa.  G, Kh and H phonetically are produced close by in the mouth.  G is a voiced velar plosive. Kh sound is a voiceless velar fricative. H is a voiceless glottal fricative.

 

Carole Shaw, London UK
SCHNEIDER: Kamanets Podolsk, Ukraine & Libava/ Libau/Liepaja, Latvia
KLUGMAN, GOLDSCHMID (plus variations), BRAUER: Libava/Libau/Liepaja, Latvia & Johannesburg
ROSENTHAL, ZUSCHNEIDER/CUSZNAJDER: Lublin, Poland
GREENBERG, BRZOZA/BJOZHA, SOBERSKI: Lomza/Nowogrod, Poland
SAMSON, BLIK: Amsterdam, Zandvoort, Holland

WOLFSBERGEN, BOSMAN: Holland

ZANDGRUNDT (plus variations), SANDGROUND: Warsaw, London and beyond

JACOBOVITCH/JACKSON: Staszow, Poland & London

KOSKOVITCH/KENTON: Staszow, Poland & London
Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Peter Cohen
 

Thank you, Bob for injecting some sanity...In case it was not obvious, my original post stipulated from the outset that it was not a government official that changed anyone's name. What I am saying is that the stories are too widespread for all of them to be completely without some basis. The only other alternative is a widespread deliberate lie from parents to children. I am attempting to deconstruct the immigrant experience beyond their interaction with actual officials, to find out what might have led to stories of being instructed to use a different name.  The example someone posted about being advised to change their name by people at their synagogue is a perfectly plausible example of a voluntary name change. However, it does not address the widespread incidence of stories that include the phrases "he asked my name" and "he wrote down_____".  Since there is no evidence that the US government actually gave immigrants any documents to take with them, it was certainly not a government official who "wrote down" the new name.

Someone contacted me implying that it could not have been HIAS because HIAS did not establish an office at Ellis Island until 1905.  Checking hias.org, I learned the following:
HIAS was established in 1881.
"HIAS established a bureau on Ellis Island in 1904 providing translation services, guiding immigrants through medical screenings, arguing before the Boards of Special Inquiry to prevent deportations, and obtaining bonds to guarantee employable status. We lent some the $25 landing fee and sold railroad tickets at reduced rates to those headed for other cities."
So, not only was HIAS operating during the entire period of name change stories, beginning in 1904, it seems like they were actually embedded in the immigration process inside the Ellis Island facility (as opposed to meeting people outside the hall, as I had imagined.)  IF HIAS people were the ones who were telling immigrants to use a different name, and IF they were actually doing it inside the Great Hall, it is easy to see why an unsophisticated immigrant could mistakenly think that someone with authority was changing their name.

Again, these are only theories. I am not planting a stake and insisting this is what happened.  Something in writing may yet surface where a volunteer recorded their role in these name changes, but so far, none are known. I think it is well established that no one with government authority changed anyone's name. But to simply fold one's arms and insist that every name change was done at the instigation of the immigrant does not pass the sniff test.  Where there's smoke there's fire.
Re: Seeking information on Samuel Gluck #hungary #usa

Sherri Bobish
 


Hi Bob,

I suggest starting your search by locating Samuel on U.S. census records.
You can use www.familysearch.org to look at census, and many other databases.

I believe I found Sam GLUCK on the 1900 census living in Missouri with wife Fanney, children Rosa and Frank.  You will find much more info when you look at the census page through the above site.

U.S. federal census are done every ten years (note that 1890 census was mostly destroyed.)

Some states did their own census, often in the middle of the decade, i.e. NY State did a 1905, etc.

Good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ

Searching: RATOWSKY / CHAIMSON (Ariogala / Ragola, Lith.)
WALTZMAN / WALZMAN (Ustrzyki Dolne / Istryker, Pol.)
LEVY (Tyrawa Woloska, Pol.)
LEFFENFELD / LEFENFELD (Daliowa/ Posada Jasliska, Pol.)
BOJDA (Tarnobrzeg, Pol.)
SOKALSKY / SOLON FINGER(MAN) (Grodek, Bialystok, Pol.)
BOBISH / APPEL (Odessa)
 
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